Specific questions about detrimental effects (?)

[Xeneonic 0]

I'm convinced these questions have been asked before, but they're pretty specific and the search function both on SIF and here did not return the results I was hoping for (Probably searching with the wrong keywords). Anyway, here it is!

 

 

Elementals on the seraphim isle, specifically the ice ones do a ranged attack, if it lands, it slows your character in terms of movement (Don't think it affects attack/cast speed). What kind of attack is it, and what can be used in terms of skills, mods or item attributes if any or all are applicable?

 

The very same elementals, except for the ice ones (Ha! The pun) champion versions throw a trap on the ground. It only triggers when you MOVE, if you stand on it, nothing happens. What kind of attack is this? I was expecting this to be a spell/CA attack, but this doesn't seem the case because my Divine Protection with Improved Mirror doesn't reflect it (It can completely absorb it however).

 

I would really really REALLY appreciate it if anyone could come up with accurate information.

 

 

Those elementals can also use a physical slow effect on me, which effect is this and how can you counter it? I believe it's a ranged attack (elemental throwing rocks) but it could also be a melee attack or BOTH.

 

 

I'm attempting to make a GOD Seraphim (No, not demigod, the real deal) but my current build may be flawed by design (Though still 3 skills to make up for it in case, she's only level 30)

[gogoblender 3,069]

Is it chance to slow 25 percent or something? I think there's actually two slow mods in the game... Antitrust had brought this up somewhere?

 

 

gogo

 

p.s. LOL,accurate info Xen.. C'mon this is sacred We will probably get a fun, and informative journey of discovery with this topic. Looking forward to the posts on this. I was actually going through the detrimental effects on Wiki and those pages are hungry for info ^^

[locolagarto 15]

Ah, Xen you found those ice elementals. ain't that a kick in the pants? Bet you didn't expect that little change in Ice and Blood did you?

 

*Spoiler* Wait till you meet the spiders in Lizerath.

 

I would assume it to be an ice DOT? I wonder what a high % of -DOT gear would do with those guys. and the Ogre champs that cast the area effect too?

 

my assumption comes from the general re-balance of DOT attacks my monsters in Ice and Blood.

 

edit: Perhaps -%opponents chance to Freeze would reduce the chance of getting slowed.

[Xeneonic 0]

Haha gogo, I wonder who came up with the initial accurate info of combat art mods. Also, some of those have gone to bust!. For example Radiant Pillar's "Ordeal" absolutely, certainly, definitively doesn't increase by "(threshold is 25% + 0.5% per CA level of max health)" anymore. I wonder who got these numbers and how, that way we can check for accurate information. Probably

 

Ah, Xen you found those ice elementals. ain't that a kick in the pants? Bet you didn't expect that little change in Ice and Blood did you?

 

*Spoiler* Wait till you meet the spiders in Lizerath.

 

I would assume it to be an ice DOT? I wonder what a high % of -DOT gear would do with those guys. and the Ogre champs that cast the area effect too?

 

my assumption comes from the general re-balance of DOT attacks my monsters in Ice and Blood.

 

edit: Perhaps -%opponents chance to Freeze would reduce the chance of getting slowed.

Well I was hoping that it would be much easier than that, after all, absorbing (shield) or reflecting an attack (mods) would mean it wouldn't affect ME but either the SHIELD or THEM right? Ha ha, I guess I'm entirely wrong on that.

 

If my above statement is incorrect, then at least reducing detrimental effects to 0% duration should work. Or maybe it will not at all! Because detrimental effects... aren't effects that slow, am I correct?

 

Does anyone perhaps have the knowledge on what's going on with the trap I explained about in the OP?

[locolagarto 15]

Physical, Poison, Fire DOT causes bleeding = damage over time

 

Ice DOT causes freezing = slowing

 

Magic DOT causes Weaking = lowering of attributes

 

Is this correct or not?

[Xeneonic 0]

Physical, Poison, Fire DOT causes bleeding = damage over time

 

Ice DOT causes freezing = slowing

 

Magic DOT causes Weaking = lowering of attributes

 

Is this correct or not?

 

You could be correct loco, but then I was being misled by Sacred 2. DOT = Damage over Time, that freezing didn't do any Damage over Time. There's also a PHYSICAL slow (Like a concussion).

 

So I'm afraid you have like initial attack damage, chance to trigger DOTS and chance to trigger a tertiary effect?

 

 

 

 

Although I definitely do remember Weakening, it was MASSIVE in Niobium. (Dropping MAX HP values to 1 lol). However, that magic DOT still also was a DOT.

 

 

This hurts my brain!

[Antitrust 32]

I had posted some things in my Sacred 2 - Detrimental effects, what they seem to be doing... topic, there might be more info around here.

 

I don't recall any ice attacks that did any kind of DOT, just the initial damage and slow.

 

The max HP thing you remember was actually a stacking bug with Deep and Serious Open Wounds. It has been fixed in the .43 patch iirc.

[Xeneonic 0]

Thanks Antitrust, I read all that and still questions remain though.

 

So you are saying those freeze attacks come from melee and ranged attacks. So dodging/blocking/reflecting those attacks, would mean I'd dodge/block/reflect the detrimental effect as well?

 

The trap issue is also still there, ah so many questions

[Furian67 15]

You try the -xx% opponents chance to burn, weaken, FREEZE, posion yet? When I go through seraphim island I try and socket up the freeze part.

[r00ster 1]

Ok here goes;

 

-Detremental Effects: Reduces the TIME of impediments, NOT their power.

 

It affects ALL afflictions, like stun, root, slow, etc. It will NOT reduce their impact, ONLY their duration. I.e. 100% -Detremental Effects = 100% stun immunity in a sense, because as soon as you would be stunned, you would recover.

-It is IMPOSSIBLE to gain 100% - Detremental Effects.

 

Damage Over Time:

 

Is actually 'resistance' in the games function calls. It is not considered armor, but it is resistance. We know its effects, it lowers the damage of any attack that does additional damage, with 'ticks' etc. An example of a non fundamental view is a boss dragons breath. It is 'damage over time' and increasing this value will lower the damage.

 

NOTE: A HIGH - Detremental effects will lower the duration of damage over time, resulting in LESS 'ticks'. With a skill like spell resistance mastered, and at high skill value, it is possible to have only one 'tick' from damage over time effects.

-damage over time ONLY controls the DAMAGE DONE by these attacks.

 

Spell Resistance WILL lower the IMPACT of spell DAMAGE.

It works like attack/defense for melee. If an opponents or player characters spell INTENSITY < opponents RESISTANCE, it will knock off around 50% of the spells damage before ANY other checks to armor, mitigation, etc are made. It also if the values are in high opposition (high spell resistance to very low spell intensity) will make spells miss outright.

 

Lastly,

 

It is IMPOSSIBLE to have any character 'truly' a 'god' except a melee shadow warrior with shadow viel. You can try all you want, but they can only attain 'demi god'. The SW only attains true god, because nothing attacks you. It is impossible with any build, and any amount of stacking defenses to omit all damage. SW only gets this because he omits all damage via nothing attacking.

 

The closest a seraphim can come is as follows;

 

3 Aspects.

Skills required;

 

Exalted Focus

Rev Tech Focus

Celestial Lore

Celestial Focus

Warding Energy Lore

Constitution

Concentration

 

The logic;

 

Exalted for battle stance buff modded with silver evade, gold reflect CC.

Rev tech & Warding Lore for shield buff and divine protection. Buff modded reflect projectiles, reflect magic, block.

Celestial Lore & Focus for Hallowed restoration modded hp regen, remove damage over time (which it's not, its 100% remove root) and - det effects.

Constitution for more hp, mainly for synergy with vitality and hp regen at mastery.

Concentration for 2 buffs.

 

You would also want, but not needed for survival; Tactics, Combat Discipline, Armor Lore, and more, but no skills left.

 

The play;

 

In a combo you have hallowed restoration. This will provide incredibly high hp regen, as well as stacking -detremental effects. A level 30 hallowed with the gold mod will stack in 2 casts to about -40%, so it's VERY powerful.

It also insta heals. you can maintain 2 casts full-time (level 30 spell with celestial lore will also give around 700 hp/sec regen) with it in a combo.

-Celestial Lore is a MUST for this spells hp regen power and healing. If you only take the focus, this will NOT work.

 

The shield buff will omit a lot of damage at higher levels, so that hallowed + this mitigation ensure nothing will ever kill you.

 

Battle stance + Pillar + baneful smite (both spells modded properly as debuffs, - attack values) can bring enemies to a 0% hit chance.

I.e. for mobs, a pillar with battle stance on and slight evade will net you about a 2-3% chance to be hit.

For bosses, use baneful, and similar.

 

These steps with the celestial set for the LL%, mitigation, etc are about as beefy as a seraphim can possibly get. It is not possible to exceed this build with seraphim in survival godliness. This I promise you.

You are for all intents immortal/god, but you still can take damage. Not that the damage will ever threaten you, but gods don't take ANY damage.

 

Drawbacks are;

 

No weapon lore, must rely soley on dashing alacrity for attack/cast speed, and you must mod it exactly to do this.

No options on skills. It pretty much takes them all.

 

In truth, I would suggest strongly either go the shield/divine route with a LL% weapon style like pole arms, or the hallowed restoration/celestial set route.

Either or will provide as much an immortal state as you need for the game, and allow more freedom in skills.

 

IF you truly want a GOD, as in a char that takes no damage whatsoever, that is only the shadow viel shadow warrior. Even 100% mitigation builds take damage from certain attacks, but this SW build does not. The only thing that can damage it are reflections to either magic or melee, whichever style you take it. Note, that melee reflection can be removed with 2 pieces having -opponents chance to reflect = 100% and therefore, true 'god'.

 

Cheers,

 

EDIT*

 

The traps are indeed spells and can be blocked/reflected. 'Block/Reflect Combat Arts' is the ticket. Note, you will need the values HIGH.

 

Also lastly, yess opponents chance to wound/weaken/burn/poison will remove their chance to even proc these effects, however NOTE;

They like a player character with 'damage lore skill' can EXCEED 100% chance to proc these, so -100% does NOT == no procs.

Edited November 27, 2010 by r00ster

[Xeneonic 0]

Thanks for the very detailed evaluation r00ster, a lot if this I already found in other of your threads, so while I thank you, please know that you shouldn't feel that all your explanations prior to this one fell on deaf ears!

 

One of the problems I encountered, is that I avoided the ice elementals ranged attack (no damage counter was shown, no health subtracted) but I STILL received the slowing effect.

 

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...vine_Protection

Mirror = immune to spells (This is an absolute right?)

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Battle_Stance

Massive chance to avoid stuff, but no guarantee

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...vine_Protection

+

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Warding_Energy

MASSIVE damage reduction, spell reflect and ranged reflect, but temporary. (I have yet to receive any damage from anything with both of these up, but only level 35 vs 50 mobs atm, silver)

 

If I interpreted it correctly (I probably didn't ) avoiding attacks means I avoid detrimental effects. What about 100% shield absorption, will it absorb the effects? I mean literally damage mitigation, not whether damage is shared between shield and hp.

[Dragon Brother 619]

A brief look though the games files explains why you probably were getting hit with the detrimental effects. Firstly, I would assume the bonus Mirror provides is one of those that never reaches 100% meaning max at level 200 CA is still a chance to be hit by spells (maybe maxing out at approx 72%). Also, divine protection may take the damage for you but you still suffer any effects of spells. These creatures (elementals, some ogres, a dryad mage and some stuff from the crystal region) all cast a spell called "enemy_frostball" in the spells.txt file which causes an ice dot, ice damage and, more importantly, the move speed reduction you see (maybe a 33% reduction?).

[Xeneonic 0]

Hello, I don't know if this has been in perspective yet, and I don't know if this is true, but it seems to be a likely theory:

 

 

1.) A mob's ranged attack causes a detrimental effect AND/OR chance to stun/freeze etc.

2.) You have 50% chance to avoid ranged projectiles.

 

Would this mean you have a 50% chance to avoid getting hit by the detrimental effect AND/OR chance to stun/freeze etc.? If yes:

 

3.) You also have a 50% chance to reflect the projectile back to the attacker.

4.) Your defense rating is high enough that half of his hits will not hit. (On top of Point #2).

 

Now I suck at calculating these, but would this mean 87.5% chance to not get affected by detrimental effects AND/OR chances to stun/freeze etc.?

 

This seems to be a rather logical assumption does it not? If I have a club right here, and I smack your head with it, you will get a concussion right? So if you somehow reflect it back to me, *I* would get that concussion, and if you avoid it, OBVIOUSLY, you wouldn't get a concussion from the club right?

 

 

Then, from points #1 to #4, these numbers can be much higher (And chance to block etc etc). Yet without -detrimental effects and -stun/freeze etc, you still get hit by detrimental effects AND/OR chance to stun/freeze very often without protection.

 

 

 

Where do I go wrong? Is it a designflaw in Sacred? Because, fact is, with an insane amount of ranged attack *any* avoidance, you still get hit by detrimental effects AND/OR chance to stun/freeze etc. from those very same ranged attack you just dodged.

 

 

I hope I was able to put this a bit into perspective.

 

 

 

 

 

 

P.S. It also doesn't make ANY sense, that if I hit you with a club while you have a 100% damage absorption shield AND reduces all damage to 0 (So even the shield takes no damage) you still get a concussion magically.........

[Dragon Brother 619]

I think you are looking at this too much in terms of real world effects, the addition of magic shields does not make sense in real life. Reworking your club analogy, you get hit, but some magical energy field takes any damage you might get for you, however you are the one who got hit, not the shield so you are the one who gets concussed. Which is how it works in the game, the only way to not get hit by the detrimental effects is to not get hit by anything be it CA or weapon based attack, basically repeating r00's statement that a SW is the only one that can achieve true godhood since no matter what you do with your seraphim you will get hit by something, you may mitigate 100% of the damage but you cannot mitigate any effects (like slow, stun, dots...) designed into a CA without reflecting/blocking it completely, duration may be reducible and dot damage as well but thats it, and DOT damge and leech damage will hit you, not the shield if it successfully hits...no true immortality

[locolagarto 15]

I think you are looking at this too much in terms of real world effects, the addition of magic shields does not make sense in real life. Reworking your club analogy, you get hit, but some magical energy field takes any damage you might get for you, however you are the one who got hit, not the shield so you are the one who gets concussed. Which is how it works in the game, the only way to not get hit by the detrimental effects is to not get hit by anything be it CA or weapon based attack, basically repeating r00's statement that a SW is the only one that can achieve true godhood since no matter what you do with your seraphim you will get hit by something, you may mitigate 100% of the damage but you cannot mitigate any effects (like slow, stun, dots...) designed into a CA without reflecting/blocking it completely, duration may be reducible and dot damage as well but thats it, and DOT damge and leech damage will hit you, not the shield if it successfully hits...no true immortality

 

 

It seems the Chattius had a post the described this affect as well, with the example of LL. all the shield and mitigation in the world, including reflect, -DOT, can not stop LL. The only defense is to not get hit..

 

My little test yesterday seemed to show that even with reflect on the grundwald dragon he still took LL damage. perhaps it is the same with the frost balls. you can mitigate the physical and elemental damage, but not the effects.

[Xeneonic 0]

Well it's good to know that "Not getting hit" avoids detrimental damage and effects. Would having high spell resistance (above 75 base of course) AND the antidote from Hallowed Restoration prevent ticks and effects from occurring? Like r00ster mentioned, you would still be hit by the detrimental damage and effect, but it would be so short that the damage expires before it can do it's first tick.

 

 

On another note, what do you guys consider "god"? (Without the religional aspect of course) Depending on how you look at it, it doesn't necessarily have to be "Not taking any forms of damage at all". For an example, there are cheats in games that enable "godmode", you still take damage, but it never drops below 1 health. So you literally still cannot die. But, you are taking damage.

 

So maybe "god" is more accurate to say "Able to take any forms of damage without the possibility of dying"? I know it's quite a useless kind of discussion, but I am wondering your points of view of the term "god" in games.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Well it's good to know that "Not getting hit" avoids detrimental damage and effects. Would having high spell resistance (above 75 base of course) AND the antidote from Hallowed Restoration prevent ticks and effects from occurring? Like r00ster mentioned, you would still be hit by the detrimental damage and effect, but it would be so short that the damage expires before it can do it's first tick.

 

 

On another note, what do you guys consider "god"? (Without the religional aspect of course) Depending on how you look at it, it doesn't necessarily have to be "Not taking any forms of damage at all". For an example, there are cheats in games that enable "godmode", you still take damage, but it never drops below 1 health. So you literally still cannot die. But, you are taking damage.

 

So maybe "god" is more accurate to say "Able to take any forms of damage without the possibility of dying"? I know it's quite a useless kind of discussion, but I am wondering your points of view of the term "god" in games.

I think that no matter how much anti det/dot you get you will always get hit by the first tick so there will be damage/slowing/whatever.

 

As to godness....Id say it depends on you views in real lfe how that could be defined...while I have no views on religion except that it isnt for me, others who believe in christianity may want suggest an allpowerful/seeing/knowing=invulnerable type requirement, whereas if you base it on more of you're forgotten realms/dragonlance type god then they can be killed, they simply are gods among men, more powerful in everything they do...I think that for what you ask though, invulnerability or as close as you can get to it seems to be the best definition for me.

 

I think you are looking at this too much in terms of real world effects, the addition of magic shields does not make sense in real life. Reworking your club analogy, you get hit, but some magical energy field takes any damage you might get for you, however you are the one who got hit, not the shield so you are the one who gets concussed. Which is how it works in the game, the only way to not get hit by the detrimental effects is to not get hit by anything be it CA or weapon based attack, basically repeating r00's statement that a SW is the only one that can achieve true godhood since no matter what you do with your seraphim you will get hit by something, you may mitigate 100% of the damage but you cannot mitigate any effects (like slow, stun, dots...) designed into a CA without reflecting/blocking it completely, duration may be reducible and dot damage as well but thats it, and DOT damge and leech damage will hit you, not the shield if it successfully hits...no true immortality

 

 

It seems the Chattius had a post the described this affect as well, with the example of LL. all the shield and mitigation in the world, including reflect, -DOT, can not stop LL. The only defense is to not get hit..

 

My little test yesterday seemed to show that even with reflect on the grundwald dragon he still took LL damage. perhaps it is the same with the frost balls. you can mitigate the physical and elemental damage, but not the effects.

 

Yeah, but the dragon wouldnt have 100% chance to reflect so you would be able to hit him anyway. But yes, only absolute defense is to not get hit.

Edited November 29, 2010 by Dragon Brother

[locolagarto 15]

Well it's good to know that "Not getting hit" avoids detrimental damage and effects.

 

 

Well I guess I was a bit incomplete in my thoughts, lol . I think I was headed in the direction of best defense would by to Block or Evade the attack. Using modifiers such as Block Chance: Close Combat or Block Chance : Combat Art, things like that. Taking shield Lore has a nice bonus modifier for rare shields and at mastery a really good bonus.

 

Or just don't get hit! rflmao

[Xeneonic 0]

Hmm, Loco, your post throws things off again (). When I had like a zillion chance not to get hit by that ice elemental's ranged attack (Through various means like reflect, block, avoid etc):

 

 

8 out of 10 of that ice elemental attacks "missed". The projectile reached my character (Visually), no health was dropped and no shield or anything that would absorb it. This concludes that this is indeed a "Miss" right? Then how come all 10 attacks out of all 10, did inflict the "Slow" effect?

 

*Mind boggles*

[locolagarto 15]

Hmm, Loco, your post throws things off again (). When I had like a zillion chance not to get hit by that ice elemental's ranged attack (Through various means like reflect, block, avoid etc):

 

 

8 out of 10 of that ice elemental attacks "missed". The projectile reached my character (Visually), no health was dropped and no shield or anything that would absorb it. This concludes that this is indeed a "Miss" right? Then how come all 10 attacks out of all 10, did inflict the "Slow" effect?

 

*Mind boggles*

 

Ah ha! that is interesting.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Hmm, Loco, your post throws things off again (). When I had like a zillion chance not to get hit by that ice elemental's ranged attack (Through various means like reflect, block, avoid etc):

 

 

8 out of 10 of that ice elemental attacks "missed". The projectile reached my character (Visually), no health was dropped and no shield or anything that would absorb it. This concludes that this is indeed a "Miss" right? Then how come all 10 attacks out of all 10, did inflict the "Slow" effect?

 

*Mind boggles*

Thats odd...it must come down to how the game deals with blocking the combat arts maybe...if the attack causing the slow is a spell that means only reflect and block effect it. If your block is the one thats doing it all maybe the game doesnt block the effects, only the damage?

 

Lol...crazy stuff