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Guild Wars 2 - Improving dungeon runs


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The following thoughts are based on my review of our dungeon runs, as well as the runs I have made (both Story and Explorable) with random group. They are my ideas on how to have smoother runs.

 

Have a leader

Dungeons are group efforts but someone needs to be the shepherd to direct the group. I guess my position as guild leader makes me the default choice for group leader. If the group wants to designate someone else, I am happy to follow.

 

Move purposely

Some groups may get by with "speed clearing" dungeons but honestly we are not playing at that level. We will be much better off emulating a cat hunting a mouse (I.e. move slowly and pouncing at just the right moment).

 

Calling targets

The leader (or someone otherwise designated) should call targets, and the group burst down that target. By focusing our fire, we can eliminate enemy threats more quickly, thereby reducing incoming damage. Situational requirements may dictate altered tactics though.

 

Pulling

Whenever possible, weaker mobs should be pulled off and eliminated before focusing on those more powerful. This can cause issues for melee characters, since them moving forward to attack can aggro unwanted foes.

 

Downed & Defeated Updated 02 Feb 13

You can no longer respawn if any member of the party is in combat. This makes it much more important to get downed members up ASAP. Obviously, whoever has aggro should try to pull away from the downed person. When you are being revived, be ready with a heal or another defensive skill just as soon as you get up. Otherwise you might just go down again. If you loose too many members and the fight becomes hopeless, attempt to break contact so that downed members can respawn. No point in needless repair costs.

 

Wipe

If the entire team wipes, do not return to the fight as individuals. The entire team should rally a safe distance from the battle. This gives a chance to review tactics and attack en masse (rather than in one's and two's).

 

 

This is just my opinion, and I encourage others to contribute their thoughts.


Bypassing mobs

Think carefully before bypassing mobs. The back memebers of the group often get hit hard while trying this and anyone who respawns has to get past them again.


 

Addendum 28 Jan 13

The biggest change in the current update is the no respawning in combat. There were also some balance changes, but those will most likely be more subtle.

 

Group compostion

I would like to comment here on group composition. Anet has said, "the trinity is dead". I agree with them. I believe the dedicated healer cannot exist in GW2, and the trinity cannot exist without it. Sure most professions can heal, and a Guardian can use Tome of Courage to pull the groups bacon out of the fire, but targeted heals are either too weak and/or have too long of cooldown for a dedicated healer to be a productive dungeon member.

 

For explorable dungeons, groups really need at least one, if not two, front-line fighters (not true "tanks", but I will use that familiar term all the same). Both Guardian and Warrior can fill that role. Of course, builds like ranged DPS Warrior and support Guardian do not qualify. Note this is not an absolute requirement. I have ran dungeons with no tanks, but they were more difficult. Some professions have pets that can tank to a certain degree, but they do not normally work as well.

 

For speed clears, four Warriors and a Mesmer is the de facto standard. At the level where I play though, any five competent players, two being tanks, works just fine for our "If we aggro it, we kill it" style of dungeon play.

Edited by lujate
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Should we use some kind of formation like in Guild Wars 1? Kiyeri and Wygram will know what I'm talking about.

 

EDIT Nov. 12 : Since I got no reply to my question (probably because of the recent forum problems), I'll show you what I mean.

Heroes in Guild Wars 1 were using a formation depending on the players behavior. The formation was something like this (quoted from the wiki) :

Heroes will not always line up ranged characters at the rear, with melee characters in front, as you might expect.

Heroes will change formation when the player changes from a melee weapon to a ranged or a ranged weapon to a melee.

Heroes holding bundle item will stand in the front with melee characters.

 

My question is : Would this be useful for our 5-players parties? If so, would it be possible to apply in a way every knows what to do and no one gets lost?

I might have bad memories from our runs, but I'm not sure if we were actually already doing it.

 

Max

Edited by Flooxim
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Sorry Max I really dont understand what you mean by formation. It seems that the formation example is just telling you the behavior of heros (which were used extensivly in GW1 in place of players) I dont think it applies to GW2. But of course I could be wrong. My GW1 guild never cared where you stood as long as you did your job)

 

@ Lujate, sounds good to me, and nicely orgnized

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Good ideas.

 

With my Ele I used to hang back, but now with the warrior I find myself leaping in to attack him.

 

If a leader wants to assist in the direction of my violence I have no problem with that. Or at least until I get totally confused and disorientated. :butcher:

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Just a note that's been bothering me for a while (about my skills - nothing to do with anyone else).

I like the spirit hammer because of the knock down it grants but unfortunately this sends the mob flying away from it's current position. I don't think it bothers the ranged party members that much, but since Wygram is now also close combat, it might be an annoyance if you let go of a cc skill and the mob suddenly get's flung out of range by my spirit hammer. So I implore you to complain about the effect immediately if it hinders with your attack plan. Fortunately if I "activate" the hammer, it knocks the mob down in place.

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Just a note that's been bothering me for a while (about my skills - nothing to do with anyone else).

I like the spirit hammer because of the knock down it grants but unfortunately this sends the mob flying away from it's current position. I don't think it bothers the ranged party members that much, but since Wygram is now also close combat, it might be an annoyance if you let go of a cc skill and the mob suddenly get's flung out of range by my spirit hammer. So I implore you to complain about the effect immediately if it hinders with your attack plan. Fortunately if I "activate" the hammer, it knocks the mob down in place.

 

No problem I just catch up to them with my "Savage Leap" skill and resume my attack. :viking:

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This isnt directed at anyone, but I hate when people use those knock back skills, unless properly placed and timed. being a ranger I do my top damage at max range and the mobs are constantly being knocked out of range. This isnt a big deal for my #1 skill, but it wastes all of my other skills. Using a knock back when necessary is fine, but some people (not saying anyone here) spam it and it tends to get frustrating. FYI, I too have a knock back skill that I rarely ever use, mostly only by accident or when im delibertly trying to knock them back to survive. Funny isnt it that its the one class you thought wouldnt care lol.

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Thanks for the feedback - the thing with the spirit hammer is that it stays around for some time and can cause about 5 knock backs/downs during its' duration. I'll be sure to activate it immediately when summoned just to get the knock down effect at current location. Maybe it's time I rethink my build in any case, since I find myself competing one moment and the next franticly trying to get shields up and waiting for my health respawn!

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Could the last couple posts be summarized as :

Crowd-Control Accordingly

Inform the group you have crowd-control skills and make sure everyone is aware that you are about to use them. This will prevent enemies to become suddenly out of range of the players in the back.

Edited by Flooxim
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Ah, this brings up a thought I has last night at random. Do we have party builds? This would involve all party mates choosing skills that would compliment eachothers abilities. Rather than playing our own personally strategies we could be watching for party mate skill executions and follow up with a skill of our own that would boost or be boosted by it. Probably somewhat advanced but in time maybe... gogo was an expert at this in GW1. :)

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  • 2 months later...

I have revised the original post regarding today's update. The biggest change is the fact that you can no longer respawn in dungeons if any member of the party is in combat. This is to stop a cheap tactic know as "rez rushing", in which the M.O. is to die, respawn and run back as quickly as possible.

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  • 2 months later...

AC explorable is way tougher, and I don't think it became easier since january.

 

How would it affect dungeon runs if the player who has the most health when someone goes down is the one that "should" revive?

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AC explorable is way tougher, and I don't think it became easier since january.

 

How would it affect dungeon runs if the player who has the most health when someone goes down is the one that "should" revive?

:huh: I do not understand the question.
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The issue with dungeon runs is that glass cannons are not suited for running dungeons unless everyone in the party is a high DPS glass cannon. With glass cannons its imperative that the mobs go down super fast (ie high damage output) or the player is going to go down... Glass cannons cannot take very many hits. The players with the most health generally are the tankier builds more suited for survivability, and conversely they do not do that high DPS required.

  • Like! 1
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AC explorable is way tougher, and I don't think it became easier since january.

 

How would it affect dungeon runs if the player who has the most health when someone goes down is the one that "should" revive?

:huh: I do not understand the question.

Let me rephrase. Would it useful to designate :

a) a player dedicated at reviving others?

b) If yes, should it be the player with the most health?

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AC explorable is way tougher, and I don't think it became easier since january.

 

How would it affect dungeon runs if the player who has the most health when someone goes down is the one that "should" revive?

:huh: I do not understand the question.

Let me rephrase. Would it useful to designate :

a) a player dedicated at reviving others?

b) If yes, should it be the player with the most health?

Personally I don't think its fair to:

1. force one person to be responsible for reviving - this is because its dangerous and you risk dying yourself, and if your constantly reviving people your not hitting the mob and therefore you dont get credit for the fight which results in no loot for you.

2. the player with the most health isnt necessarily the toughest character, nor may the be proficient at surviving, experience plays a big role in survivability. And im not just talking gaming experience... the most experienced player in other games may have an easier learning curve, but they still have to learn.

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IMHO, things move too quickly to expect one person to be responsible for all reviving. Also, if that one person goes down, it may be too long before the others realize.

 

I would list a few simple rules for reviving:

1. Do not revive if you have aggro.

2. Do not revive if it means certain death.

3. No more than two people on a revive.

 

Caution: Follow these rules or Kiy will come to your house and light your carpet on fire. :devil:

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IMHO, things move too quickly to expect one person to be responsible for all reviving. Also, if that one person goes down, it may be too long before the others realize.

 

I would list a few simple rules for reviving:

1. Do not revive if you have aggro.

2. Do not revive if it means certain death.

3. No more than two people on a revive.

 

Caution: Follow these rules or Kiy will come to your house and light your carpet on fire. :devil:

Since I am the one that is usually eating dirt I don't have to worry about "The Damsel" burning my rug.

:viking:

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LMAO...I totally agree those 3 simple rules are brilliant. Tho being a pineapple they do seem to elude me at times lol

Also, think of those rules when its you that goes down... they might explain why no one is rezzing you when you think they should be.

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