What car for our just 18 year old?

[chattius 2,523]

Our daughter is 18 now and did the full driving license here in germany. She is studying arboristic and forest economy and was accepted for an Erasmus-project in France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erasmus_Programme

So we discussed what car she will get. A new one, the old from my wife, a second hand one, ...

 

I met an old couple at my zucchini project (other thread, I brought some garden vegs to a nearby home for seniors). I saw a car with a sign 'For sell' at the home and was brought to them when I asked for the owner. They did 4 all europe journeys the last 2 years. But now he lost a foot because of diabetis. They said they have no kids and they just want the new owner to have as much fun with the car as they had and some postcards from the journeys. The price was at 7000 euro for a 2litre engine 4-wheel version in top condition and a lot of extras, 31000euro when new with all the extras.

It is a Volkswagen Caddy Maxi Tramper 4Motion 2.0TDI. The name is actually bigger than the car I think. you can turn the backseats into a bed, attach a tent to the backdoor, ...

 

 

 

Which I had one when I was young.

 

[masteff 64]

1) Would she use the backseat bed to go on trips on a regular basis and not just once or twice?

2) Is she going away to university? Will she need the cargo space for moving to and from university? Are other students in the area going away to the same university and would she help drive them and their belongs to school too?

3) Is your wife happy with her own car and does not want a new one at this time?

 

If no to the above questions, then buy a more practical used car (similar to Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla).

[Ryanrocker 200]

If no to the above questions, then buy a more practical used car (similar to Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla).

The Toyota Camry my dad drives has been running for 19 years

[chattius 2,523]

Forest economy includes field studies. So a four wheel drive is not bad, and the bed and tent for a rest.

Spending a year in france I exspect her to do some sideseeing and rest at camping places.

High ceiling: she is 195cm

Seats in japanese cars are most often too short for her long legs

The car is based on the VW Caddy with replacement parts quite cheap here

Most often the rear seats will be removed I think, transporting stuff needed for university: motor saws, savety cloths,...

Disadvantages are higher fuel consuming at autobahn.

 

Other second hand cars in 50 miles circle: soft top Suzuki SJ is not a good idea in winter and for cargo theft insurance.

Subaru Forexter: short seats, tried it.

 

Mercedes G is too expensive in fuel and repairs for a student,

 

 

The car of my wife is a VW Lupo 3l, which is not ideal for transports in forests, but very very low on fuel.

 

New car for daughter, actually even a Dacia Duster would be more expensive than the Tramper.

[wolfie2kX 528]

True.. Not to mention that Dacia - for whatever reason - seems to have a waiting list (or so I've heard)... So yeah, they tend to be expensive because of that.

 

James May (from the UK show Top Gear) seems to be a big fan of them.

 

Speaking of Top Gear... What about a Skoda Yeti? Jeremy Clarkson put it through a number of tests and seems to like it for everything - including being a land based aircraft carrier... It's best to see what I mean:

 

Part 1

Part 2

Part 3

 

OK. So his review is kind of silly, but it does seem to be a pretty tough little car.

[chattius 2,523]

Yeti 4x4 starts at 23350

Duster 4x4 at 15500

 

Both have the problem that they arebought mainly by young families who won't sell it after just 2-3 years. So second hand I found none. Buying new there is some waiting and the above prices.

 

Citroen Berlingo 4x4 is at a dealer, new for 18000. But it is a 2 seater cargo variant with no windows at the sides in the rear.

 

What is never in the advertisments: the low fuel consumption of the basis versions is for a near empty car. With a loaded car the basis engine often is too small, you need more throttle , so more fuel.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Yeah... Or a bigger engine - which also sucks more fuel...

 

I suppose it's understandable that people won't want to part with it - especially with the sort of reviews Top Gear gave the two cars. While James May is more sensible when it comes to cars, Jeremy Clarkson is anything but - his passion is in supercars and the like. If it can't go at least 150 mph - he doesn't normally like it. So when he gives a car like the Yeti a glowing review, it's gotta be something worth having.

 

Oh well. It was a suggestion. Yeah.. At that rate, the VW sounds like a steal.

[Thorin Oakshield 260]

Except for one thing:
If the older couple did 4 all Europe trips in the past 2 years, how many KM did they actually drive:)

 

After driving over 100-150K Km, several car parts are starting to become in a bad shape. Meaning you might be about facing some high repair costs.

In the Netherlands we got some web-sites where you can type in the license plate number and where you get some information about the expected sale price, age etc of the car using that plate. If something similar is available in Germany, use it.

 

And last, but not least, if it's going to be your daughter's car, shouldn't she pick it? Just tell her what the budget is and advise her about what she might think off and let her make the decision. After all, she's going to be the one who drives with it.

 

 

Thorin

[chattius 2,523]

The old Volkswagen T4 Van started with 55hp, 70 hp, 90 hp, 110hp, 150hp. The least fuel consumption was at 90hp. Less hp and you had to do too much throttle, more horsepower and the engine was too big.

Yeti, imaginating that you get the Tramper for 7000 and still have 16000 left for a new car for my wife. So our daughter could use the Tramper while the practical year at france and the Lupo my wife has now for city traffic and autobahn transfer to home when she does the theory part of the studies.

The Tramper has 88000km. The next main full check with replacing main parts is at 140000. The exspected price for the car would be 9500 if using the used car catalog, which doesn't include the extras: heatable mirrors, fog lights, rear drive camera, seat heating,...

We discussed the options with our daughter, I am no dictator But she also knows that a good shape 4x4 Minivan is rare and you have to buy quickly, means till end of week. If she wouldn't do forest economy and arboristic, something like a Lupo or Polo would be best.

But she could claim the Tramper as a camper with a speed limit of 100 while the year in france. So the insurance costs would be significantly lower than for a beginner driver and a street car.

 

Topgear

150 mph. I got a BMW GT from my company to save time compared to flying (working with explosives is a lot of paperwork at checkin to bypass controls). What I liked most is the head-up display which can show a virtual full stop line. At 200km/h this line is already quite a bit away, and the car has inside cooled ceramic brake discs. Now with a feeling for the braking distances I do only speed permanently in the headup.

What I dislike at Top Gear are there strange tests. A Bugatti vs Porsche but totally ignoring where the Porsche shines: less wide, less weight, so overtaking on a small countryroad is a lot easier. I would never buy a car for a better top speed. Accelerating from 60km/h to 100km/h is more important for me. It allows to overtake a tractor or slow truck in the range of view at a curvy country road. Most accidents at our place are because people are from outside and not used to the roads. They do an overtaking when there is just not enough line of sight to see opposite traffic yet far away.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Except for one thing:

If the older couple did 4 all Europe trips in the past 2 years, how many KM did they actually drive:)

 

After driving over 100-150K Km, several car parts are starting to become in a bad shape. Meaning you might be about facing some high repair costs.

In the Netherlands we got some web-sites where you can type in the license plate number and where you get some information about the expected sale price, age etc of the car using that plate. If something similar is available in Germany, use it.

 

And last, but not least, if it's going to be your daughter's car, shouldn't she pick it? Just tell her what the budget is and advise her about what she might think off and let her make the decision. After all, she's going to be the one who drives with it.

 

 

Thorin

 

 

Yeah.. We got something like that here in the US - it's called Carfax.com - it will give you a bit of history on the car as far as any accidents, what sort of maintenance it's had, etc... Tho, IIRC, it uses the car's VIN number (it's a small plate that you can see thru the front window that has a unique ID number for that car) instead. License plates can be changed too easily but a VIN number is permanently associated with that car.

 

As far as the kid goes - I suppose she should have some feedback - but since her dad is the one paying for it...

 

The old Volkswagen T4 Van started with 55hp, 70 hp, 90 hp, 110hp, 150hp. The least fuel consumption was at 90hp. Less hp and you had to do too much throttle, more horsepower and the engine was too big.

Yeti, imaginating that you get the Tramper for 7000 and still have 16000 left for a new car for my wife. So our daughter could use the Tramper while the practical year at france and the Lupo my wife has now for city traffic and autobahn transfer to home when she does the theory part of the studies.

 

The Tramper has 78000km.

 

Topgear

150 mph. I got a BMW GT from my company to save time compared to flying (working with explosives is a lot of paperwork at checkin to bypass controls). What I liked most is the head-up display which can show a virtual full stop line. At 200km/h this line is already quite a bit away, and the car has inside cooled ceramic brake discs. Now with a feeling for the braking distances I do only speed permanently in the headup.

What I dislike at Top Gear are there strange tests. A Bugatti vs Porsche but totally ignoring where the Porsche shines: less wide, less weight, so overtaking on a small countryroad is a lot easier. I would never buy a car for a better top speed. Accelerating from 60km/h to 100km/h is more important for me. It allows to overtake a tractor or slow truck in the range of view at a curvy country road. Most accidents at our place are because people are from outside and not used to the roads. They do an overtaking when there is just not enough line of sight to see opposite traffic yet far away.

 

I can understand that - passing cars/trucks/whatnot on the road is important - especially when/where it's hard to see opposing traffic. And perhaps they don't really put in enough time to test that sort of thing. But I don't normally watch Top Gear for that kind of thing. it's actually quite amusing most of the time.

 

All that said... The Bugatti Veyron - regardless of it's size - is still an incredible car. If someone were to hand me the pink slip for one, along with a TON of money for tires (which don't last very long) and such, I wouldn't turn them down. I probably wouldn't drive it very much because it's not practical for day to day driving. It can suck down 26 gallons of fuel (approximately 118.2 liters) in 12 minutes at top speed. Not that it would be possible to drive at 250 mph anywhere I can think of - not even on the freeway going from L.A. to Las Vegas. The road is just too rough for that. Driving it at the VW test facility (one of the few places on Earth where you CAN drive it at top speed) isn't very much of an option as I'm on the wrong continent.

 

The tires don't last long at top speed either... They will go from "brand new" to shreds in 15 minutes at top speed. Not that it's a problem since you'll run out of gas long before you could do that. But even driving "normally" (as close to "normal" as you could in a city) they only last like 6000 miles.

 

But still... It is like the Concorde - a pretty incredible feat of engineering. It's built more like an airplane than a car.

[chattius 2,523]

Hmm, luckily my daughter is a girl. There is the rumour that boys are fixated for lifetime to the type of cars which is close to their first or the first they wanted.

Maybe something true about it: I bought back my first car after 20 years. It still existed but needed a lot of work. The car was born in a time of no-electronics and when germany was still recovering from the war: small, robust, light. It had just the stuff in it which was absolutly necessary: engine, brakes, seat, stearing wheel, ...

The car could outrun a Ferrari, Lamborghini, Corvette, Thunderbird, Dodge Charger, ....

Well I could do it at least on the road I was doing every day from home to the girlfriend I had at that time. A small and windy road following a line around the small mountains. It had no straits where a sportcar could use its speed. My car had 1400pounds weight, 110hp, engine in the rear, the engine cover was often lifted a bit for better cooling and work as a rear spoiler, ...

Our daughter did savety training in my multicolour NSU Prinz on a race track for a weekend last summer. 1 Month later she was winning a slalom race for amateur 17 year olds. Because the car I said, natural born driver she said. Her grandgrandfather (from her mothers side) was state champion in bike races and her uncle does rallye sport and her mother was the monkey in the sidecar at sidecar races.

She could use the car if she wants, but it is not practical: only a small cargo room in the front, rear seats removed and a savety race cage in the cabin. The last person owning it did historical hill climb races with the car.

I don't know how used you are to car slalom races in america, seems the quarter mile is more popular there. Auto-slalom is a lot of fun and quite save because of relative low speed.

Even the first NSU Prinz were build in the fifties, there are not much cars which could beat them in a car slalom, specially in a short radius slalom.

 

Will buy the Tramper in evening.

[gogoblender 3,069]

What a great place you are in life with your family! the first car. Makes me so happy when my parents helped me with one when I was a teen as well. I rarely get into cars anymore, I'm soooo urban but the ones you're looking over look like they have lots of attractive functionality.

Wish your daughter my best on her birthday, I just so sure that you pulled out some magical cullinary expertise out of your loving dad's hat for her.

 

 

gogo

[chattius 2,523]

Her birthday was at wriiten tests at university. So we did the celebration when she visited after the last test. She showed us what she learned and did her own hessian chain saw massacre


http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/20624-hessian-chain-saw-massacre/

 

Just she drilled a hole instead using the chainsaw:

[Ysne58 236]

My son borrows either my car or my husband's when he needs to go somewhere and we aren't willing to drive him. He will use his bicycle when he can. My daughter is still learning how to drive. He is 19, she is 17. So I really can't be of much help to you on this one.

[chattius 2,523]

The main problem is that she will be one year at france. So borrowing a car could be for longer than just a trip to next town

[Obsession 0]

It's better to get something cheap for first car as young drivers often get dings and scratches on theyr cars at least few times before they master driving and parking well enought. And as used cars are really cheap in Germany (atleast compared what you have to pay in here) it should be easy to find a decent one. That Caddy looks lot like what old people drives so I don't know how "cool" it would be drive it when you are 18 even it has that nice camping feature. I think WW golf/passat variant TDI would work better as it's better looking. Removing backseats when going on trip will clear enought space for a bed in the back. That is if she really wants a car where she is able to go to sleep.. most 18 year olds don't care much about that (or atleast I haven't met one).

 

When thinking petrol vs diesel, I would say go for the diesel. That would mean no Toyota even it's reliable choice, but theyr diesel engines are not as good as VAG has. Consumption around 5-6L/100km while good old 1.9tdi has around 4-5L/100km.

 

So I would say 2002-> ww golf variant (or hatchback if she likes it more) Tdi. Just looked from mobile.de for some good ones starting from 3000€.. less than 200k on the clock and full service history. Here that kind of car would cost starting from 8000€+ even if it had driven lot more (300k+).

 

Younger people don't use same car that long so buying a new car would be total waste of money as value drops so fast and when you add some scratches and dings or even total wrecking of the car it drops even more. I wouldn't even worry about safety as ten year old cars are still "modern" and safe. Some people are afraid of repair costs on older cars.. sure there are parts that needs to be changed from time to time, but it's lot cheaper than what you loose in depreciation on a newer car.

Just my 2 cents..

Edited July 19, 2013 by Obsession

[chattius 2,523]

Boring car: The car is tornado-red. With some black plastic film and a set of other frontlights you can make it look a lot better for just 200-300 euro.

 

One problem is her size. A golf will automaically turn from a 4 seater to a 2+2 seater with the front seats as much back as possible.

The normal Caddy is mainly bought by young families, not old people.

She drove an Unimog on farm roads since she was 12, she drove a light weight car last year, limited to 60km/h. So not much fear that shecan't drive.

 

if the Tramper is claimed as a camper with a speed limit: a lot of the high insurance costs for starter drivers can be saved. She will be 10 of the next 12 month in france, so the speed limit isn't that painful.

 

A new car would have been for my wife, freeing her current car for the daughter. A new car would have made sense because she is a countryside doc and would drive it for several years. But with the extras she wants, the waiting time is about 8 month.

[chattius 2,523]

The car had more extras than exspected: A nice extra of the car is something like a block heater. A timer controlled burner warms the cooling water when the engines is out and starts the pump. So the cabin and the engine are warm when you enter.

AND:

It works the other was around too. If the cabin is in the sun and would have 50+Celcius, the pump can start to bring heat to the engine cooler and the cabin temperature can be cooled down to surrounding temperatur. All this without the engine running. This is not a clima control which would need a running engine.

 

My father in law (rally driver and car mechanic) and me put some more extras in:

 

Useful if you need a ladder. She is studying arboristic after all, how to cut and cure trees. 250 Euro the set. We did the cutting and mechanical work ourself. Well my dad in law did, I was mainly a biological tool reaching robot.

The colour will be more young by using coloured plastic films instead spraying. Will be done by our daughter after her grandpa showed how to do it. Using leftovers from the car mechanic shop of her cousin. So the car will be coulourful I fear. She plans something like:

 

The original front light unit was replaced by a rallye-sport unit: 6 lights including fog lights. Fog lights are really useful in wet forests when the sun starts to shine. 40Euro , got from a demolished rally car on a car graveyard.

Also a search/work light unit is placed on the cabin, 40 Euro from car graveyard. Being able to search for a house/address in the dark without leaving the car may be not a bad idea for a girl. Dual functions with work light for the arboristics.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Sounds very cool!

 

The 2nd picture doesn't seem to be working though...

[chattius 2,523]

Put another, Harlquin painted Beetle.

My brother has a ceiling door mainly for these foltable seat-bank and tables for outdoor parties. He runs a band and they play at weddings and such.

Hope it is a good compromise of usefulness, fun, low cost and youth. If my dad in law says the car is okay I know that there will be no mechanical problems. The car shares a lot of parts with the Golf V and the Touran. It has just no independant suspension in the rear but a beam axle or however it is called in english. So replacement parts are not too expensive, car graveyard for example.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Thanks..

 

EGAD! That is one... interesting paint job.. Not quite so sure I'd ever want to drive it but OK..

 

Sounds like you got a good deal then!

[chattius 2,523]

The colour scheme was first on a special VW polo.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Polo_Mk3#Polo_Harlequin

 

Stearing wheel, seats, everything was coloured this way. Still some harlequin fan clubs over here.

[chattius 2,523]

Added a TV. Or do I have to say: a multifunctional display for navigation, rear camera for parking, playing DVDs, ... 120 Euro.

[chattius 2,523]

Our daughter will travel France for 8 weeks before university starts. One reason is to get better in the language, the other to get a paper that she has a knowledge in the flora of france.

First 2 weeks were the area we did our family vacances last year: Nancy, Avignon, Camargue,... Mainly to drive a known area and learn to know the car, secondary for the beaches at the heat.

 

Following the mediterran Coasts she started today to visit the pyrenees mountains' partly in spain. She met a wandering dutch girl who will travel with her to the atlantic.

 

The fuel consumption seems to be at 6.5l/100km. That are 36.2 mpg(US). She is using an international tank card, so all the costs for fuel, oil, maut and small replacement parts are done from my bank account

[wolfie2kX 528]

Added a TV. Or do I have to say: a multifunctional display for navigation, rear camera for parking, playing DVDs, ... 120 Euro.

 

Sounds like you could do a German version of Pimp My Ride...

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsblM2RfI4A

 

At least she's not driving this rolling disaster area...

Edited August 19, 2013 by wolfie2kX