Dialogue Template on SacredWiki - A new toy to play with!

[Schot 407]

So for the past 3 weeks I've been toying with this new template I wanted to build. The Sacred 2 Dialogue Template. Based on our very simple S2frame template; I wanted to try to build a template that was able to mimic, as close as possible, the in game dialogue boxes used in Sacred 2 while using light weight html and css to render it in place of screenshots:

 

• 36 Kb
• list of some dialogue screenshots presently used on the wiki that show file sizes
• ranges between 10 Kb to 600 Kb each

The objective here was inspired by my paranoia over our server space, haha. It quickly turned into a fun creative challenge though that I really enjoyed. So between other tasks I've been working on this. For me and gogo, as admins, the benefit is that submitting NPC dialogues in this way will reduce the amount of server space we use. Space that can be used for other future purposes. Sacred 3 anyone? But the other benefits are much more fun. This template basically allows people who don't have any graphics experience to create these cool looking boxes without any graphics editing needed. Just gotta know how to type! Another benefit for casual readers of SacredWiki is that pages will load just a little bit faster because this template version of the in game dialogues display will be smaller in file size than the screenshot versions submitted on many of our quest pages. And an unintended benefit is that the text inside these new dialogues remain as text which means they can be searched for. And the final result is...

Levied Tax

 

This is a picture of what the template looks like on SacredWiki. It's primarily generated using html and css to mimic the appearance of Sacred 2's dialogue boxes. Using html and css means a more light weight version as opposed to using screenshots. There are 4 separate images that are positioned using css that complete every dialogue:

• The NPC portrait = 10 Kb
• The Background = 37 Kb
• The frame around the NPC portrait = 2 Kb
• The single corner image = 1 KB
• Total = 50 Kb

On a page that has a single dialogue, there won't be a benefit regarding the speed at which the page loads. In some cases... But in most cases there will be a benefit. Most pages will probably have multiple dialogues. When there are several dialogues on a page the dialogues template images will only need to be loaded once on the page since 3 out of 4 of them will be re-used by any and all dialogues. Only the NPC portrait will differ. And of course another benefit is appearances since this new dialogue will always have a nice sharp look.

 

Sample comparison:

Realm of the Seraphim page before using the template = all dialogue images combined file size 301 Kb

Realm of the Seraphim after using the template = all dialogue images combined file size 77 Kb

 

The background of the dialogue is the only place I kinda splurged regarding file sizes. I'm still on the lookout for an optimum performance/appearance background image though so that could change any time. One last big plus that I like is that by editing the template I can effect all submitted dialogues from a single location. So if I want to tweak the way every single dialogue box that is already submitted on SacredWiki looks like I can do that on the dialogue template page to have the change cascade across all dialogues. Neat huh!

 

Big thumbs up to gogo who has been gogoing away all those old tired looking dialogues for the new template ones. Thanx gogo! So how does this all work?! I've re-written the Sacred 2 Dialogue page in an instructional manner so by all means let me know if it makes sense!

The Sacred 2 Dialogue Template

[SX255 630]

Love the idea, especially since I needed some of the dialogs for my fan art, and will need more in the future.

 

But the portrait background bright blue is terrible.

[Flix 5,116]

I've been noticing all the work going into this over the last several weeks. This was a good idea, and well executed. Very impressive. I especially love the way that this allows for links within the dialogue text.

 

My notes:

About resemblance to the original dialogue windows, there are two things that don't match up: the portraits and the character name font.

 

Did you ever have any leads on how to make the portraits look proper 3D rather than just the flat texture? The portraits look very murky and splotchy as they are.

 

Can the character names be made to have the original font from the game? The one that's currently used for page titles on the Wiki.

[Ysne58 236]

It's much easier for me to type or copy/paste dialogue than try to work with screen shots, which I cannot seem to manage.

[Schot 407]

Excellent feedback! Thanx.

 

Cheers SX255. For the portrait background colour I really had a hard time choosing. I didn't like the original colour so I've been experimenting with it a bit. I agree that bright blue didn't work very well. Nothing seems to work, ugh. I put it back to the original until I come up with something better.

 

Portraits and font. Both are tough ones! I haven't figured out how to render the portraits properly yet. I could see it was going to take a while so I decided to go ahead with the flat looking portraits until I could figure out how to render them. Then I'll replace the existing flat ones in use. As for fonts it's a strange problem. It seems as though the character names use a combination of two fonts. From what I can tell the character names use one font for the first letter of each word and the rest is another font. So I went with the most legible of the two... Actually... I'm not sure why but I'm testing it now and it seems I didn't explore a third possible font. I thought I had but, well... I've changed the font to the third choice. Looks pretty close to me now. Good call Flix!

 

I'm glad you see the value Ysne. I think it's fair to say that most people don't have a knowledge of graphics editing. Yet when it comes to a wiki based on a game, it's pretty hard not to use tons of graphics since the game itself is pretty much 99% graphics. Which we love of course! Hopefully this template will provide a convenient bridge for those who want to present their wiki work in a graphical manner without needing to open a graphics editing program on their computer.

 

Now... If I could just figure out how to render those portraits! Oh and there's one other problem I need to figure out. For whatever reason, the dialogue template doesn't display line breaks as expected. I think this is something that the Mediawiki software itself has a problem with. Another tough one to figure out. All in all I'm pretty happy with the outcome.

 

Suggestions are of course always welcome and appreciated!

[tom.morrow 89]

This looks great Schot, nice and sharp.

a couple remarks:

- leave some space between the portait and the actual dialog

- make the dialog have same indentation even below the portrait (as in the actual game dialog)

(Now I understand what you wanted those portraits for, its great)

regards

Press Alt+F4 for secret weapon.

[Dragon Brother 619]

This is some pretty impressive stuff. Making our wiki all shiny and pretty!

[Flix 5,116]

Hey Schot I was looking at the template page and I saw another portrait category that needs to be added: the player characters' portraits. For when the character has dialogue.

[gogoblender 3,069]

This is definitely one of the most amibitious undertakings for the Wiki

Schot was working on writing the code for ever with making the tweaks work, and he's still constantly improving it.

Yes, my hands feel like crap with all the typing but ultimately, getting all the dialogue alive out of the pix and into real data makes the Wiki deliciously searchable and just that much more reference.

Diid I say how sore my hands are from all the typing?

*hint at anyone who wants to add diablogue boxes *

Thank you SChot for my daily pain

*weak yay* :explosion:

 

gogo

[Antitrust 32]

Wow, I always wanted us to have something like this on the wiki It adds a very uniform look and organization.

 

Some notes:

• Need a field for the filename of the original image file that is being replaced by the template (for archival purposes)

• I disagree about the font discussion above, I would recommend any basic readable font like Arial, fancy fonts just don't usually suit wikis
• Add temporary categories to the dialogue and quest templates - that way the wiki software will automatically sort them so we can quickly see which pages are done and which still need work. The categories can be removed once all images are converted.
• Add OK/Accept/Decline parameter (defaulting to Ok?)

Edited November 21, 2013 by Antitrust

[gogoblender 3,069]

 

Wow, I always wanted us to have something like this on the wiki It adds a very uniform look and organization.

 

Some notes:

• Need a field for the filename of the original image file that is being replaced by the template (for archival purposes)

• I disagree about the font discussion above, I would recommend any basic readable font like Arial, fancy fonts just don't usually suit wikis
• Add temporary categories to the dialogue and quest templates - that way the wiki software will automatically sort them so we can quickly see which pages are done and which still need work. The categories can be removed once all images are converted.
• Add OK/Accept/Decline parameter (defaulting to Ok?)

Great feedback trust!

And always great seeing you here on these boards

Re the accept ok, probably Schot can work that into the template, he's on Vac though now, but will back in a week

And the font... well, that font gives me headaches. Yes, I agree that regarding a Wiki, it's all about info and it's efficient dispersal. However, I think that right now we're the only wiki in the world that has something like this set up, and because of Schot's (breakthrough? ) coding, even that of Wikia

It's a cool nod of respect to the game I guess to use the font, and as a skills thing, it's great...but I see also the side of having information be in as plain and clear a read as possible, so this is going to be a tough toss up.

As a way to "copy" "verbatim" so to speak, us using the game font is incredible.

Does a Wiki have to go this far, and does it take us away from the path of quickest content to the readers?

 

gogo

[gogoblender 3,069]

Schot, we're missing a sheep's head image for this quest here, went through the images, but don't think it's up yet:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Magician_in_Sheep%27s_Clothing#Detailed_Walkthrough

 

 

gogo

[tom.morrow 89]

.

 

:wasn't me:

 

no-no-no, it wasn't me who took that head, no sir

 

( runs off hiding something under his raincoat, looking suspicious )

 

 

cheers

 

 

 

Loading big, giant axe...

[gogoblender 3,069]

heh, here's a custom darkmatters smiley that one of our own members made for himself on this site... this would fit our needs perfectly, we'll need someone to pull off it's head though:

 

 

gogo

[SX255 630]

So here is how the new Sacred 2 wiki dialog works with Sacred 1 (in shoe book quest). Over all everything looks cool.

 

 

But I cant seem to get the new line break right. I want it too look as cool as in the cow quest but it doesn't register. What is missing in the scripts?

I'm also having trouble with the right { " } as it overlaps the last letter.

And for some reason there is a line break in the dialog of the cow quest for no reason.

 

[gogoblender 3,069]

Morning SX!

Bravo for venturing into the lost lands of Sacred 1 wiki!

I'm back from vacation and ready to tackle this project too, and first thing that greeted me this morning was this post.

I'll have Schot look at it this morning, as he's the script writer, I'm sure this breakfast challenge'll suit him up for the day.

gogo

[Flix 5,116]

This looks very good SX255. I'm very happy to see some Sacred Underworld stuff going up on the Wiki. It's almost enough to make want to switch over and start helping you. Almost lol. Great job.

[Silver_fox 397]

Greetings to all SacredWiki members, old familiar faces and newcomers alike!

 

After a long time of absence I dropped by to look up a few facts on the wiki. I should have known better! I noticed all amazing new things that were added since my last visit - a lot of hard work done exceptionally well by Knuckles, new original ideas by Flix and valuable contributions by all the others - and of course I felt a certain editing itch. Now I don't think I would be able to stop myself from helping you again, maybe not on a daily basis, but who knows...

 

Now, to the point of why I am posting here of all places. Your hard work with dialogs is noticeable and the results are impressive, but now I wonder if you are really going to retype all this tremendous lot of text by hand. The first thing that came to my mind is that there is a way to reduce the recreation of quest dialogs to a matter of copy and paste. With all modders around, it's a bit strange that noone suggested extracting the dialog texts from main global.res file which contains all in-game texts (if somebody had actually suggested it before and this idea was declined, I apologize for bringing it again). Granted, extracting exactly all texts for a specific quest requires some knowledge of how quests are scripted, but it can be done (you can try asking marcuswob about this). Or you can simply decompile the global.res into one big text file and then use find option to locate the dialog you need and copy it (it would require you to type the first couple of words into a search box, but it's better then typing the whole dialog). I know that CM-patch devs did not want such resource files to be entirely public, but there is nothing bad in allowing few wiki members have access to them. I used to have such big file with all in-game texts in it. I'd share it if you think it can speed your work up. At the very least, I think I should handle the dialogs for CM-patch quests as I already have them all extracted or typed.

 

Also, there is one qiuestion I have about using the template - what should be used as a caption for phrases said by a playable character? In actual game you see character's name there, so of course screenshots on the wiki show a variety of names chosen by contributors for their chars. But as a template is a more universal thing, it should be impersonal. So do we link a class name to these dialogs (using 'Seraphim' or 'High Elf' instead of character's actual name), or is there other idea?

 

The last point to mention is that the template really does need some ability to add buttons. Maybe optional, as most of the dialogs are of standart Accept/Decline/OK variety, but it is needed, for I recall a few quests with customized button captions (Wolfie's 'Ancient Secrets' is the first to come to my mind) and a few more that can not be declined (they use OK template instead of Accept/Decline).

 

P.S. It seems that with all changes the wiki went through, my login had expired. Can you please restore it (if you don't mind me hanging around, of course).

Edited February 7, 2014 by Silver_fox

[Flix 5,116]

Greetings to all SacredWiki members, old familiar faces and newcomers alike!

 

Hello! Good to see a past Wiki contributor appear again. I am comparatively new but I've been putting in massive hours on the Wiki since last July. My goal is to basically just do everything I can.

 

 

==Amazing idea that would save hours of typing==

 

This should have been obvious to me. Even as I'm wading through quest text in global.res to add in new set names, and seeing Gogo's posts all through November-December that said "managed to type up a few more quests, ow my hands hurt"...it never even occurred to me that there could be a time/wrist-saving method, even though it was staring me in the face.

[gogoblender 3,069]

Good seeing you back Silver!!

And, course, two of the biggest contributors have met up! Silver, I think Schot knew some about the files, but we weren't sure who in the community had those kinds of resources. Yeah my hands were hurting, and I think a fair number of them got done, we'll see a return to it one day.

I'm also not sure if you know, but SacredWiki and DarkMatters were hacked a while back, and all the sites were down, with the dbases out of order. A few months went by, and finally Schot was able to repair sites, and we were able to get them in somewhat working order again. DarkMatters and SacredWiki are not connected anymore, and we spent a bit of time going through the dbase for a reason to the corruption of the logins, and this will require more investigation

We'll try to find a way to see about this, we're still not sure sometimes how much damage was done done by the hackers

If you're getting that itch to work on the Wiki again, perhaps a new registration on the Wiki for now with a password I can set up can help in the meantime?

 

gogo

[Schot 407]

Made a quick Sacred Underworld Dialogue template SX. Not sure if you were wanting one more akin to Sacred 1 but here it is anyway! I've had a lot of problems with the line breaks too SX. The way the wiki interprets line breaks vs the way browsers do is causing a bit of a headache. Do the best you can for now!

http://sacredwiki.org/index.php/Template:S1_Dialogue

 

That idea of using the res file to generate dialogue text sounds great!

 

P.s.

WONDERFUL to see you back Silver Fox. Regarding Player dialogues it would be nice to use "The Player". I started using that after I had done a few. gogo and I started replacing the campaign dialogues first if you'd like to look through that.

[gogoblender 3,069]

Good seeing you back Silver!

 

If you're getting that itch to work on the Wiki again, perhaps a new registration on the Wiki for now with a password I can set up can help in the meantime?

 

gogo

Yeee haw, it worked!

This is the last time I take this topic off course (Sorry Schot! ) Silver , holy molee welcome back to the boards, and the Wiki..

You are home!

 

gogo

[Silver_fox 397]

Thank you, gogo (both for restoration of my editing superpowers and for the warm welcome)!

 

Now I'll bring the topic back... well, to the topic. I decided to go through the quest pages I did before to apply this new template (and rid the wiki of some heavy PNG dialogues), and already ran into a small issue. The template leaves no opportunity to change the NPC name (it automatically assumes that the name in game matches the title of respective wiki page) which is a bit troublesome in case of side quest NPCs with generic names like Kobold or Soldier (and there are a whole lot of such guys). They all have their own NPC pages titled with location suffix (for example, right now I'm working with this one: Kobold Chieftain - Happy Cow Farm). So what should be put as the dialog caption? Writing it the way it is in game would result in either red or misleading link (with the example above it would link you to the random enemy). Writing it the way it is in the database is even worse... So can you please add the opportunity to use aliases for these NPC links, or suggest some workaround.

[gogoblender 3,069]

I think the current work around we're using is "The Player"

 

 

gogo

[gogoblender 3,069]

For example in this quest here till we're able to add an edit to the template:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Dratted_little_beasts

 

 

gogo