Yes, been away from FDM for a long time... but... S3... whaaaat?

[Dobri 55]

What happened to our favorite franchise guys? Why are they destroying it?

 

I am heartbroken. I just wrote a long petition on the steam forums to fans not to buy this full-priced game. 50€ for a simplified arcade-style excuse for an ARPG? Oh , my goodness...

 

It is just unfair... I was so looking forward to reconnect to all my friends here on FDM, whom I miss a lot, through S3 and reminisce of the good times we had in Sacred 2 in all those hundreds of hours dumped online. And now this... I'd rather take a slap in the face than a game that does away with everything that made S1 and Sacred 2 great...

Edited July 3, 2014 by Dobri

[SX255 630]

Welcome back.

Calm down, as there is still hope...

 

You are not the first to panic over this. As the release date looms, more and more outraged fans comeback to rile up the controversy. We have previously discussed this issue many times on the forum, and our thoughts remain the same.

 

Yes, the new owners of the series decided to dumb it down to a generic formula. Most of the roomers are true. They made promises to stay true to the lore and stuff, but the promised changes pleased noone. Even the game reviews of the "for review only" demo, while praising the gameplay at 7.5, downgrade it to a 0 for titling the game "Sacred". No petition will change this. And I doubt anything can save the game at this point.

 

But none of us is asking you to run out and buy Sacred 3 on launch day. You can wait a week or two for reviews, and then decide what it's worth is.

 

That was the bad news.

Now for some good news.

 

Sacred 3 promised to suck so much that 3 month ago the original developer team decided to get back into business and show how it should be done. They are doing this through crowdfunding, planing to go Kickstarter in August, so at the moment the process is going slow, but it's happening. You can read up more on that in our threads and check up their progress on http://www.unbended.zone.

 

In my opinion, your 60$ is better of donated there.

Now, is there anything specific you want to know?

[Ryanrocker 200]

It is just unfair... I was so looking forward to reconnect to all my friends here on FDM, whom I miss a lot, through S3 and reminisce of the good times we had in Sacred 2 in all those hundreds of hours dumped online. And now this... I'd rather take a slap in the face than a game that does away with everything that made S1 and Sacred 2 great...

Welcome back Dobri! Yes, the Sacred 3 news has been less than exciting. p issed a few of us off as far as I can tell, and confused many more. ARPG has 3 components to it and it looks like they left out the Role-Playing part, shifting the focus entirely to action. But just as SX255 said, there is hope for us in Unbended! Old Ascaron devs got together and are starting their own kickstarter game

[Flooxim 50]

Good to hear again from you Dobri. I'll most likely end up playing Sacred 3, but it certainly won't keep me busy for a long time. Ryan and SX255 are right, Unbended looks a lot more promising. In the meantime I started playing Divinity : Original Sin, there's a topic about it.

[Knuckles 904]

Hey Dobri..good to hear from you.....I think if they had named the game anything other than Sacred 3 they wouldn't be getting the backlash they are experiencing now. Any other name and we would simply be judging it on face value alone. But when you tie it to a franchise known for certain play style like open world, well the comparisons are unavoidable. And if you deviate from that legacy-people are going to be upset.

 

Either way it doesn't look like a game I will ever be interested in. I would have felt better knowing the Sacred series died with Ascaron than watching what it has now become with Deep Silver. It's like the company just didn't care or understand what the fan base wanted or expected.

 

I haven't looked at Unbended too much yet but plan on giving it more of my attention soon. Just knowing several of the developers are former Ascaron employees is enough for me to place some trust in their endeavor.

[Dobri 55]

I am so happy to hear from you all too. Can't say I miss playing Sacred 2 much, but I sure miss all the people I got to know in it. I think now and then have have you lot been doing - I hope all's well

 

As for S3 - I may or may not give it a go when they reduce it seriously. I just can't accept a "Casual" tag on steam for S3. This franchise has never been for casual people... It has been for the likes of us - hardcore gamers who dont mind getting their hands dirty, tweaking, optimizing, and owning it all.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Dobri

[SX255 630]

As for S3 - I may or may not give it a go when they reduce it seriously. I just can't accept a "Casual" tag on steam for S3. This franchise has never been for casual people... It has been for the likes of us - hardcore gamers who dont mind getting their hands dirty, tweaking, optimizing, and owning it all.

 

I wouldn’t call the series “for hardcore gamers only” ether. Yes, the first two games have challenging adventures, grinding moments and item optimizing necessities. But the games also came with the option to just ignore battling every enemy in sight to go exploring the beautiful details of the world. You don’t need to study tons of graphs to enjoy the RolePlaying part of the game.

 

Still, I agree, the games are too memorable to get a "Casual" tag

[Dobri 55]

Yeah... can't help but smile as I remember all our hardcore adventures with the likes of gogo, schot, barristan, dima, ryanrocker, antitrust, katran, claudius, chrona, frostelfguard, furian, chattius, furrian, and sheeesh, I am sure I am forgetting quite a few more names but... Those were the good times. Lots ot LOLs online, lots of action and not even a hint of regret. having like 10 people fanning out and destroying everything on their path was just too cool to miss.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Great to see you pop in Dobri

 

It's been a long while now since Sacred 2. And unfortunately will be a while longer until we may see something similar. As others have mentioned though, there is hope in unbended.

[Dobri 55]

Hey DB

 

and to stay on topic... I found this video of a spanish game show doing S3 gameplay preview:

[gogoblender 3,223]

What happened to our favorite franchise guys? Why are they destroying it?

 

I am heartbroken. I just wrote a long petition on the steam forums to fans not to buy this full-priced game. 50€ for a simplified arcade-style excuse for an ARPG? Oh , my goodness...

 

It is just unfair... I was so looking forward to reconnect to all my friends here on FDM, whom I miss a lot, through S3 and reminisce of the good times we had in Sacred 2 in all those hundreds of hours dumped online. And now this... I'd rather take a slap in the face than a game that does away with everything that made S1 and Sacred 2 great...

Dobri!!

*hugs*

wow soooooooo long!

Yeah, the way this game went was a heart breaker, and a little bit of my gaming soul slipped away...or is that just me getting old

So far, we're getting what we've been craving from Unbended, and the heart of the x Ascaron/Sacred team seems to be over there. If you read their posts, it's got that great feel and dialogue from devs we've all been yearning for.

Though, as point of note, interesting to see that a game as really loved as ours could get so transformed, I'm seriously not sure it's what the fans want.

Poor Sacred, now relegated to status of a *gasp* flash game?

 

 

gogo

[Ryanrocker 200]

and to stay on topic... I found this video of a spanish game show doing S3 gameplay preview:

Thanks for this, I hadn't really seen any video gameplay till now. After looking at it, might be fun to smash through some mobs with the local coop mode for the consoles...BUT it's not on current gen, so it kind of defeats the purpose :/

[Dragon Brother 619]

 

and to stay on topic... I found this video of a spanish game show doing S3 gameplay preview:

After looking at it, might be fun to smash through some mobs with th elocal coop mode for the consoles

 

Thats how I see it too. Focus appears to have been way more on the action/hack-and-slash side of things as opposed to the rpg part.

[Aegis 256]

Welcome back, Dobri. Good to see you, even if a bit on the heartbroken side of things. At this point... there really is little to nothing else left to be said about S3. All we can do is wait and see if the game will be successful or not... though I am reminded of Capcom and the direction they took with the Resident Evil series, along with the crap the company received especially for their sixth entry into the franchise. Or with DmC: Devil May Cry when they handed development over to Ninja Theory, and the controversy THAT one received. Yeah... >>;

[Dobster 39]

Hey Dobri, welcome back

 

I feel the same way about S3. As a huge fan since 2004, it's is a big let down to see the direction it has headed in.

 

Unbended on the other hand looks like the game S3 should have been. Hopefully some time in the future we can all hook up and slay some monsters in it.

[S-P 6]

Just pre-ordered S3 on Steam, then I went to the steam forums...There certainly not much love for S3 on the steam forums. Have I made a mistake in pre-ordering S3?

[SX255 630]

Just pre-ordered S3 on Steam, then I went to the steam forums...There certainly not much love for S3 on the steam forums. Have I made a mistake in pre-ordering S3?

That is for you to decide when you actually get to play the game

[gogoblender 3,223]

I am so happy to hear from you all too. Can't say I miss playing Sacred 2 much, but I sure miss all the people I got to know in it. I think now and then have have you lot been doing - I hope all's well

 

As for S3 - I may or may not give it a go when they reduce it seriously. I just can't accept a "Casual" tag on steam for S3. This franchise has never been for casual people... It has been for the likes of us - hardcore gamers who dont mind getting their hands dirty, tweaking, optimizing, and owning it all.

HC, exactly. Sacred Franchise made all that delicious micro-managing a delight... and for the fans who just wanted to keep it simpler, quests abounded with a delicious map, one of the largest of it 's kind at the time.

Sacred had always broken ground, not sure if this new incarnation will have that kind of pioneer spirit.

I'm an optimist, hoping there will be something that can raise my bpm

 

 

gogo

[BlackJAC 3]

I'm glad they've taken the route that they did with Sacred 3 as I would have felt I was missing out on something had they stuck to the Sacred formula. After the way console gamers were treated by DS (being told bug fixes etc were on their way, only to be shafted and fed more lies), I haven't bought another DS game since and never will.

 

All Deep Silver needed to do was act with some deceny and honesty by telling us we were unlikely to recieve future patches and I and most other console gamers would have accepted that, but they chose to string us along in the hope of selling a few more units on the 360 before the game hit the bargin baskets. Hell, just look at the state of Risen on the 360 to see how little they care about the crap they shovel onto consoles.

[Dobri 55]

I'm still a pessimist. On my youtube vid I had the opportunity to talk with a reviewer, and thanks to him not answering and/or evading, managed to get even more info... Well, so far this is what I know:

- 15-20 Hrs gameplay if you go through every mission

- Instanced quests, 15 main, 25 side, probably 20-30 mins each

- Basic RPG mechanics, 2 selectable skills, no loot, chance for a simple drop, 2+1+Main+Dodge Attacks

- If you're solo, you are forced into playing with 3 bots, so I hope they have good AI. Hope the drop-in and out is good too.

- Competitive gameplay - I sure hope they thought this through well, cause if the players learn where the most pts are, it will be a disorganized mayhem filled with tons of button mashing

- No magicka-like combos - I would rewally be sold on S3 if it featured something like that, as it would promote togetherness and friendship

- Built-in voice chat

The reviewer was quite evasive on what the game does better than other, and what it doesn't. He admitted it is hardly the best of its genre, but he thought it was a good game in his opinion. Thing is, Keen Games ask full price for it, so it should be judged against the best there are - and I personally, don't think that any of its aspects are stellar. Then again, my info is limited to all the stuff I gathered over the internet, so maybe I should wait and see. The game unlocks in a day for EU anyway, so the first let's play will most likely hit youtube in like 3 days.

[Dobri 55]

Double post warning. I had to do it, cause I found let's plays on youtube. If you like them, buy the game

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TR-BitKJbgw

And to make this post longer, I will add my pre-launch comment from my youtube Sacred 3 angry rant. Read at your own peril.


It is quite simple really... Gamers nowadays became extremely forgiving. Many think that I overstate things in my rant. I guess people like button mashers more and more now. Hell, next thing we know, Mortal Kombat or Street Fighter will put a big red X on its dozens of years of legacy, and turn into an isometric 3D corridor button masher with an occasional "get over here!", and people will still sing their praises about it.

I have compiled all the info I have on S3 which will unlock tomorrow for EU. Some of it may still be incorrect, but it is as follows:
1. 15-20 Hrs total, 15 main, 25 side quests. Everything's a corridor or a small open area.
2. Minimalistic RPG options: pick 2 skills per mission, level up to unlock new ones.
3. 2+1+Main+Dodge Attacks.
4. Competitive gameplay: points get you either bragging rights, or if there are leaderboards, it may mean that people will fight for points like crazy.
5. Voice over IP or similar built-in chat mechanic.
6. Forced 4-man missions, even if you play solo. In this case you get bots.

Personal comments:
- I will keep saying it: price does not merit what this game does. It is by no means better than other arcade-style button mashers over there.
- no Magicka playstyle - people working together to chain attacks and help one another - which promoted friendship, togetherness, and tons of lols.
- no Dynasty Warriors type attacks - and I thought DW8 is minimalistic, but at least you could chain attacks at your leisure: 1-1, 2-1, 2-2, 5-2, 4-1, etc., and it worked well.
- RPG fans will feel hard done - you will gain levels, you will unlock skills, but the core RPG stuff that drove S1 & Sacred 2 forward, or any other decent RPG is no longer there.
- Some fans will feel the lack of loot underwhelming - especially since getting a "reward" at the end is based on chance. Still possible to have scripted stuff that gives you a weapon or armor piece regardless of the outcome.
- I sure hope the bots AI is decent, or you will scream at your PC and feel like kicking the hell out of it.
- I sure hope the scoring system is decent, or people will learn where the most pts are and will always go for those areas.
- If a mission hangs in the balance and you go save it at the cost of scoring less points, people will still get bragging rights and you will feel undervalued.
- Some classes may play similarly: now I am not really sure if that's gonna be the case, it is a personal observation, but if true... It will be Sacred Citadel all over again.
- EDIT: Is that "Sexey" commentary when you do something supposed to be cool?! Don't think it is.
- EDIT: The Seraphim narrator is kinda out of place in my opinion. Some jokes are cute, the narrator's voice is cute, but the kind-arrgessive-whoops type of personality is giving no sense or urgency or impending doom.
- EDIT: I am ok with games who don't take themselves seriously, and I guess S3 is one of them too. Or so it looks.

All in all, I am still quite pessimistic. The let's plays will start soon, and I will check them out as well. Then again, with so little time till the game hits the shelves and reviewers kinda split in their opinions of the game, I am still not convinced that it is going to be a good one. Might be fun to button mash through it 1-2 times, but that hardly merits the 50€/USD price.

[Gilberticus 374]

Gamers are more forgiving these days? Now that is a very interesting statement. I'm not being sarcastic or trying to be a troll here, I find it intriguing because it's the antithesis of what I considered gamers to be. The last time I checked gamer feedback, the consensus seemed to have a flavor similar to " The game 'fill in the blank' in my opinion is the epitome of it's genre. Now, I'm not expecting anyone to ever come out with a game that exceeds it, but dude, seriously, if you can't come out with a game that matches it in the areas of blah, blah blah, and blah blah blah, don't you dare try to bring that crap around here, cuz I ain't biting". If gamers are more forgiving, I wonder what happened to make us as a whole so complacent that we're gobbling up any crap they lay before us like an underfed Pac-Man?

[Shadout 8]

It would be difficult to talk about 'gamers' as some coherent group. The differences between something like some imaginary person playing an singleplayer RPG, a person playing FIFA or a person playing Angry Birds are huge (even if one person plays all 3 of the above, the experience the person is looking for in each game, would be wildly different. Point being; those games are not substitutes for each other - they arent for the same market).

I dont think the 'core' gamer archetype, those who would play a typical $60 game on console or PC, has changed that much in the last decades. Sure, genres has changed a bit, and gamer preferences are following suit, but none of that is really significant changes.
The biggest change is just new distinct groups or maket segments showing up, that can also be considered gamers.

 

I think it's more a matter of game developers designing what they believe the masses want. Rather than what the masses actually want. Problem being, the group of people they are targeting are probably not going to buy their game no matter what they do, and the smart thing would be to target the group of players that have a remote chance to care bout their games in the first place. You are a hell of alot more likely to get success if you make a niche game that the people in that specific group really want. Than making a game that tries to cater to 'everyone'.

 

It ought to be common sense tbh; should be much easier to make a game that 1 million people really want, than to make a game 10 million people really want. In the latter, you mostly end up making a game so bland, that nobody wants it.

 

It is a disconnect in logic, where developers/publishers seeing the succes of "simple Ipad games" for example, leads to the conclusion that if only games on PC or console were similar, then surely those same people who buy (well, download for free) games on their phone or tablet, will surely buy a console or PC game too! Which is not going to happen.

 

They apparently can't fathom that 1) People might not jump from casual phone/tablet gaming over to a console, no matter what happens and 2) Even if people do make the jump (clearly, a ton of people do play both phone/tablet games and console/pc games) most people probably don't want the same experiences on a tablet as they do on a console or PC.

Whatever they were thinking when decicing to make this game, it does sound like it is simply a bad game, maybe it will end up medicore at best, which won't help them much. Regardless of it being named Sacred or not.

 

We, as Sacred fans, are bound to be disappointed merely because they make such a drastic change from what we epxect (a relatively deep A-RPG). But at least if they made a good game in another genre, it might be kinda okay to be honest. Taking chances, innovating, and experimenting is generally a good thing. If there is quality in what is made anyway...

 

I'm not convince there is a niche of gamers out there, who just cant wait to play what Sacred 3 has to offer though.

 

Oh well, enough mindless ranting. Looking forward to the (rumored?) Kickstarter - Unbended -from those former Ascaron guys
Kickstarter and similar is such a great trend for doing what I said above; focusing a game on a smaller niche market of gamers, since the developers can see how interested people are - before actually making the game. You dont have to target your game for some unknown - and probably imagined - mass market, when your "customers"/supporters have already told you what they want.

Edited August 1, 2014 by Shadout

[Silver_fox 398]

For me it was enough to look at the Steam user reviews here: http://steamcommunity.com/app/247950/reviews/?browsefilter=toprated&filterLanguage=english

 

Out of English, Russian and German opinions, almost all are of "negative" "don't buy" kind, and even those that are posted with thumb up turn out to sound negative in the message text (maybe people just forgot to change the icon to negative). The most positive opinions I've seen so far are along the lines of "If you like action packed combat you can spend some fun hours here. If you look for another Sacred 1 or Diablo, this will be the wrong game for you."

 

Honestly, even the games that are not liked by critics tend to get more positive Steam reviews that Sacred 3 got so far. Maybe that would change with time, as now the forums are filled with rage of old fans who preordered the game. But I don't think that if more that a few people called the game boring and able to occupy you for only a brief period of time it would get a solid fan base no matter how much time passes.

[vaclaf 10]

So, the time of new Sacred is coming.. and I am thinking what kind of mind is responsible for this "game". I have an imagination.. A man who is thinking - lets go and make a game, which is stupidly dumped down, full of smashes, whooshes and flashes with great bubu monsters.Yeah, and don´t forget to piff off all developers, players and whole community of previously Sacred game, because, you know, that is the progress who all gamers want.
Over and over.

But its great that we can choose to not to buy this product and instead to support project Unbended (or different game from mature developers).

And of course, hello everybody from DarkMatters, you are all definitely unforgetable community!! I hope there will be game which connect us again all together.

 

Vaclaf :-)