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Sacred 2 Enhanced Edition


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Yes, x%LL was so easy. You could place a x% life leech polearm with 2 sockets in a slot, socket it two rings with a sure hit and enemy can't evade combination and every second strike hit. For a caster build.

Disease for dryad could be modified for boss killing:hit the boss, leave and 10 seconds later it was dead.

I did a joke in old german forum that x%LL should be changed. It should be changed so that it would be like blood doping. Each successful hit boosts attack speed by 10%. But at speed 180 you get a heart attack ;)

 

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10 minutes ago, chattius said:

Yes, x%LL was so easy. You could place a x% life leech polearm with 2 sockets in a slot, socket it two rings with a sure hit and enemy can't evade combination and every second strike hit. For a caster build.

Disease for dryad could be modified for boss killing:hit the boss, leave and 10 seconds later it was dead.

I did a joke in old german forum that x%LL should be changed. It should be changed so that it would be like blood doping. Each successful hit boosts attack speed by 10%. But at speed 180 you get a heart attack ;)

 

:lol:

gogo

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2 hours ago, Charon117 said:

If LL% would work on the remaining hp it would make the game infinitely more reasonable.

I think that's why it's bugged.  Instead of dealing damage based on the opponent's current health, it deals damage based on the opponent's maximum health.  So no matter how much health the opponent has, you can always kill it with the same number of hits.  Let's say you have LL 10%, you can kill any opponent in 10 hits at most.

2 hours ago, Charon117 said:

I also had a balance request to triple "Chance to ban undead" modifier.

I'll see what I can do.  It seems a pointless modifier when Potions of Undead Death are readily available.  I'll see if I can push the values close to a guaranteed chance to banish.  Will do the same for Absorption Warding Energy (Opponent) -X%.

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6 minutes ago, Flix said:

I think that's why it's bugged.  Instead of dealing damage based on the opponent's current health, it deals damage based on the opponent's maximum health. 

Oh, really? Interesting. I'm adding the issue to my to-do list.

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13 minutes ago, Flix said:

I'll see what I can do.  It seems a pointless modifier when Potions of Undead Death are readily available.  I'll see if I can push the values close to a guaranteed chance to banish.  Will do the same for Absorption Warding Energy (Opponent) -X%.

Well yes, but you could have similar thoughts with all potions:

1. Why life regeneration when full health is just a few space presses away ?
2. Why even bother with DoT% when green health potions are just a few clicks away.
3. Why bother with "Chance to banish Undead" when you have purple potions ?
4. Why bother with decreased regeneration time, when you have yellow potions ?
5. Why bother with +XP% when you have blue potions ?

I see potions as a general problem in Sacred 2. The main point is that I dont want to "constantly remember" to drink purple, blue, yellow and green potions. This is why I have -Reg%, -DoT%,, and "Banish Undead" modifiers on my builds. All potions have the same visual effect, there is no buff indication of what kind of buff is present at the moment. Add that to the terrible status bar delay and you seriously, 100%ly dont know what is going on at each moment.

Imagine that the hp bar would update within one frame, imagine if you would have buff icons, imagine those icons would update within one frame as well ... it would be utopia.

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4 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

I see potions as a general problem in Sacred 2.

The issues are, that potion drops are way to frequent and potions are way too cheap in shops. Once those two poor choices are corrected, the problem is gone.

8 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

Imagine that the hp bar would update within one frame, imagine if you would have buff icons, imagine those icons would update within one frame as well ... it would be utopia.

Not gonna happen. The GUI elements are tied into libsigc-2.0.17.dll. Hell knows, how this one works.

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53 minutes ago, dimitrius154 said:

The issues are, that potion drops are way to frequent and potions are way too cheap in shops. Once those two poor choices are corrected, the problem is gone.

Not really, the main problem with Sacred 2 is that many game mechanics aren't all that well thought through.

You just need a quite high health potion drop rate and fairly cheap buying prices, because you cannot get any DURING a fight esp. a boss fight, so you simply have to stack up beforehand.

If there were more viable and consistent methods to get health back during a fight, like craft +LL (not %LL calculated on max. enemy health) on gear or weapons, you could significantly reduce  health potions drops, otherwise not.

 

 

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You can socket +LL per hit, +HP regen, master Constitution for in-combat HP regen, raise Vitality for higher HP bonus, use energy shields on certain characters, use block and reflect modifiers... I mean, it's not like there's any shortage of options there. So the higher in level you are the less health pots you should be consuming, and if that's not the case then you're doing something wrong. If anything Sacred 2 presents you with too many different ways of doing the same thing so faulting the game's mechanics is kind of awkward to be honest.

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21 minutes ago, Androdion said:

You can socket +LL per hit, +HP regen, master Constitution for in-combat HP regen, raise Vitality for higher HP bonus, use energy shields on certain characters, use block and reflect modifiers... I mean, it's not like there's any shortage of options there. So the higher in level you are the less health pots you should be consuming, and if that's not the case then you're doing something wrong. If anything Sacred 2 presents you with too many different ways of doing the same thing so faulting the game's mechanics is kind of awkward to be honest.

I agree.

 

Something we also might forget is that health potions drastically heal less hp the higher the difficulty goes. We all just dont spend enough time on Niobium to appreciate that. And we all dont spend enough time on Niobium because ... there is nothing left to do there. The reason why we make a build is to see if we can beat the content in the game, in order to reach a higher difficulty level, in order to get better loot ... to reach a higher difficulty level. But in Niobium there is nothing higher to reach. For this reason we dont spend a lot of time in Niobium.

How to remedy that ?

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That's actually a very good question! The scaling challenge suddenly disappears, and once you can beat the campaign in Niob you can do pretty much anything in the game, so you're just left with more grind (for the fourth, maybe fifth, time).

I wish I had an answer to that but sadly I don't.

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So a few questions before we get started with 2.3:

>All combat arts which debuff opponent armor now do so in percentages rather than flat values.
Did you change the values for the CA then ? A level 50 Paralyzing dread removes 100% of physical armour ? And the german tooltip for it is wrong. It says armour (plural) in 2.2.

>Enemy Speed now scales higher per difficulty level, up to +60% at Niobium difficulty (+80% in Challenge mode).
Thats the change I disagree with. When I said I wanted enemies to be faster I meant I wanted more diversity, not just everbody on crack. On the other hand my movement speed mod hasnt been released yet, so we can talk after that.

I forgot, is the Light Path bug with Numin... thingy fixed ?

 

22 minutes ago, Androdion said:

I wish I had an answer to that but sadly I don't.

One of the things I have been thinking about would be an Indigo Plateau style challenge. After the main story boss has been defeated the player could be "invited" to a challenge area, where the player has to sequentially beat one challenge after the other, without teleports as checkpoints or town visits. I also would like to have bosses with special strenghts and weaknesses, modeled after the 7 main chars in the game.

 

Red: ... ... ...

 

...

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21 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

Did you change the values for the CA then ? A level 50 Paralyzing dread removes 100% of physical armour ? And the german tooltip for it is wrong. It says armour (plural) in 2.2.

These values deliver diminishing returns, so will never reduce opponent armor, attack, or defense to "0."  I've only put the exact numerical values in the English tooltips.  That's just laziness on my part - I  always dread editing all the localizations.  But know that in most cases I've reduced the scripted numbers by a factor of 10, so for example 100 + 50 per level armor reduction is now 10% + 5% per level reduction. 

21 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

Thats the change I disagree with.

Give it try and see what you think.  I found that by increasing the speed cap to 450%, the player was outstripping all enemies in terms of speed.  They could outrun any opponent.  I've spent some time with this change to enemy speed and really enjoy it.

Also please remember that not all enemy speed is equal.  2.3 doesn't just bring every enemy to an even 80%,; the boost is applied to whatever their various base movement speed is.  I.e., turtles still plod along compared to bats (actually bats may be a bad example - I've only made them small and fast like you suggested in upcoming 2.4), but there are still variations.

I'm happy to introduce more variation in addition to the overall speed increase, if you list some examples of what should be slower/faster, or I can wait and integrate your mod with EE.

21 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

I forgot, is the Light Path bug with Numin... thingy fixed ?

I'm drawing a blank here, sorry.

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@Charon117  I know you don't test, but would you consider installing the latest 2.4 build (attached) since you are about to start a new difficulty playthrough?

It's just the updated scripts folder for the Enhanced Spells version, since you play that module.  If you use it, just apply to 2.3 like a patch.  Change log included.

S2 EE 2.4 Test.zip

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I've checked the Dryad 'Sininster Predator' buff. Despite the blueprint.txt spez2 supposedly covering a single SUBFAM for "bb_attackspeed_weapon_dist" and "bb_AW_rel_dist", the buff does affect ALL ranged weapon types, throwing included. So there's no need to fix it.

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9 hours ago, Flix said:

I'm drawing a blank here, sorry.

I heard the Inquisitor boss in the Great Wasteland was unbeatable ? Thats why you have to fight him 2 times in the Dark Path ? Something CP introduced ?

 

8 hours ago, Flix said:

I know you don't test, but would you consider installing the latest 2.4 build (attached) since you are about to start a new difficulty playthrough?

That goes without saying.

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4 minutes ago, Charon117 said:

Thats why you have to fight him 2 times in the Dark Path ? Something CP introduced ?

Not the CP, the Addendum did. That allows the DS characters to kill him(he'd die by script in vanilla, denying the kill, the experience and the loot). 

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I'm going to sound like the old guy in the room, but why do you think that the game should be adapted to modern standards at all? I get what you're saying but to me it seems like your idea is to change Sacred 2 into something it is not. Sorry mate but I can't agree with an extended normalisation on a peculiar old school game to adapt to the modern standards of what a game of this type should be. I for one like the idea that things are different and diverse, and if I want something more in line with modern times then there's also plenty of that out there. :)

Also I think you're obsessing with the endgame, which let me tell you isn't all that hard if your build has a decent level of progression. Which between the huge amount of quests and the endless grind should be really easy to accomplish. Not all CAs are ubber powerful nor should they be, but you may want to think of some things as early game material and then scratch them for later on. As an example of that some CAs and modifiers start out awesome and then get less and less powerful over time. But even then and with a massive investment into skills, attributes and gear you can still turn a pretty useless CA into a game changer. I mean, just look at the amount of melee HE guides there are! There's even a guide to use Shadow Step as your main killing art, so that's that.

As for the gear vs set bonuses, most of what you say should be on sets can also be present via jewellery. I also think you're undervaluing the power of some modifiers a bit too much since they can be total game breakers. Take deathblow as an example. I built a tri-aspect dual-wield Inquisitor with stashed gear and a ladder of dedicated shoppers to make it as powerful as it could be. By char levels 50-60 I already had over 70% in deathblow and so many +All Skills that even skills with one hard point would be accountable. And suddenly everything was butter, I'd just slap a Clustering Maelstrom/Ruthless Mutilation combo followed by a Ruthless Mutilation/Callous Execution combo after rounding up all the mobs and bam. It sounded and looked as close to a blowpipe Dryad build as it could be. So as quickly as that I could just kill everything in a couple of hits. So like I said, some modifiers are very powerful and shouldn't be as easy to amount as others. That's why Kira's Wall never drops and never should drop, it's just too powerful and you can use it all the way to the endgame without needing to upgrade it. In the same respect once you can get certain modifiers running you can just keep them running and you're done.

Sacred 2 gives you endless ways to do the same thing, that's its charm.

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16 minutes ago, Androdion said:

I'm going to sound like the old guy in the room, but why do you think that the game should be adapted to modern standards at all? I get what you're saying but to me it seems like your idea is to change Sacred 2 into something it is not. Sorry mate but I can't agree with an extended normalisation on a peculiar old school game to adapt to the modern standards of what a game of this type should be. I for one like the idea that things are different and diverse, and if I want something more in line with modern times then there's also plenty of that out there. :)

Also I think you're obsessing with the endgame, which let me tell you isn't all that hard if your build has a decent level of progression. Which between the huge amount of quests and the endless grind should be really easy to accomplish. Not all CAs are ubber powerful nor should they be, but you may want to think of some things as early game material and then scratch them for later on. As an example of that some CAs and modifiers start out awesome and then get less and less powerful over time. But even then and with a massive investment into skills, attributes and gear you can still turn a pretty useless CA into a game changer. I mean, just look at the amount of melee HE guides there are! There's even a guide to use Shadow Step as your main killing art, so that's that.

As for the gear vs set bonuses, most of what you say should be on sets can also be present via jewellery. I also think you're undervaluing the power of some modifiers a bit too much since they can be total game breakers. Take deathblow as an example. I built a tri-aspect dual-wield Inquisitor with stashed gear and a ladder of dedicated shoppers to make it as powerful as it could be. By char levels 50-60 I already had over 70% in deathblow and so many +All Skills that even skills with one hard point would be accountable. And suddenly everything was butter, I'd just slap a Clustering Maelstrom/Ruthless Mutilation combo followed by a Ruthless Mutilation/Callous Execution combo after rounding up all the mobs and bam. It sounded and looked as close to a blowpipe Dryad build as it could be. So as quickly as that I could just kill everything in a couple of hits. So like I said, some modifiers are very powerful and shouldn't be as easy to amount as others. That's why Kira's Wall never drops and never should drop, it's just too powerful and you can use it all the way to the endgame without needing to upgrade it. In the same respect once you can get certain modifiers running you can just keep them running and you're done.

Sacred 2 gives you endless ways to do the same thing, that's its charm.

I like this post. I think you've hit the soul of this game.   From Sacred's DNA coming from Underworld and then in Sacred 2...it was always about (for me anyway) about just making builds  to see how they moved, how stuff would die and how they sounded.  For a stand up game these devs packed in so many ways to get to the endgame... personal enjoyment from knowing there was so many ways to enjoy that road to where you just wanted to build another build. 

That whooshing noise like milk being sucked from a straw from life leech... when this game first came out that sound was MASSIVE loud... and i just wanted to play because of it...plus the effect visual...but within days the devs made it to what it is today because (after me complaining in the forum :P)  that the sound was causing crashes  and so they had to nerf it.  There's so many reasons why people want to play this game all the way to end, and the variety is Sacred's strength.

:)

 

gogo

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@gogoblender @Androdion

Sorry if I sound like someone that's gonna change the original sacred2 for you guys.....

My opinions are more focused on sacred2 ENHANCED...

I think that there should be a mod that focus on fixing bugs and QOL that gives a more vanilla taste of what sacred2 is like, community patch should cater to those audiances.

 

 

 

The line.............................

 

 

As far as sacred2 enhanced is concerned, this one is for more progressive folks, we've already nerfed damage mitigation, we added in so many different skills, Kira's Wall has a meager 10% damage mitigation. (But I think reducing damage mitigation is a good move) We might as well  roll up our sleeves and change for the better.

I don't think we have double hit, high percentage deep wounds, high magical damage(like 400-600% plus), high percentage combat art range for sets. 

The thing is, ascaron went bankrupt and were under insane crunch at the time, lots of stuff are not properly balanced because the company went under.

There are lots of ideas not tested enough and lots of hidden stuffs that did not come into fruition

Sets don't have an identity in sacred2, most of the time, the mutation set piece wins simply because it has  more sockets.

 

I guess if we stand on different sides of the line, both of our worlds are fine, and come on guys, this is sacred2 MOD, not sacred2 official.....

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5 hours ago, Charon117 said:

I heard the Inquisitor boss in the Great Wasteland was unbeatable ? Thats why you have to fight him 2 times in the Dark Path ? Something CP introduced ? 

Like Dmitriy said, in the vanilla game, you fight the Grand Inquisitor, then right when he's about to die, he delivers his final monologue, and he's killed by a script.  So he doesn't count as a player kill, I.e., you never see him in the Last Opponent Window or get the loot, xp, etc.

In EE, I've included Dmitriy's change, which transforms Nimonuil back into a killable enemy after his monologue. Furthermore, I've extended this script change to the Light Path quest as well.

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Fair enough SANGEL, you make a valid point about these being potential changes for a mod. I just find it weird when people sometimes talk about changing core features of the game, that's all.

I think double hits was bugged somehow, not sure if the guys were able to make it work. Deep wounds can be increased via Damage Lore and in that respect high spell damage can also be raised via Ancient Magic (which also drops resistances on top of that). The thing is that besides modifiers on gear many skills act like modifiers themselves in this game, so accounting for that you can have a proper go at most if not all of what you mention. Sure, you'd have to sacrifice skill slots, but again, core mechanics.

As for the sets being "upgraded" I actually like the idea. I just think the idea needs some proper tuning. Maybe the sets' themes could be more diversified and further explored/expanded somehow. Not sure how but the idea remains.

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8 hours ago, dimitrius154 said:

I've checked the Dryad 'Sininster Predator' buff. Despite the blueprint.txt spez2 supposedly covering a single SUBFAM for "bb_attackspeed_weapon_dist" and "bb_AW_rel_dist", the buff does affect ALL ranged weapon types, throwing included. So there's no need to fix it.

But how?  Are you sure it's not just affecting all weapon types?

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@Flix If you integrate the unfinished Diverse Movement Speed mod into 2.4, than I could start playing 2.4 before I design a proper partial code line feature in the Modmerge System. So if you like the idea and implement it 1:1 I could play 2.4 and give the Diverse Movement Speed mod more time to mature.

Here is the creatureinfo.txt in the current Modmerge format. People who would apply this would also overwrite entries with EE 2.2 data. The file contains all concrete ids I changed, in the order stated.

For the people who dont look into the file, the proposed changes are:

Quote

--// rat units flat MS increase of 50
--// spider units flat MS increase of 50
--// wolf units flat MS increase of 20, excluding werewolfs and wolfriders
--// giantbat units flat MS increase of 50

 

Edit: Also, did you cut the logic box of the 2 giantbat entries by 25% ? I know you said you did, just checking.

Edited by Charon117
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