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Burgfräulein, Paladin build in v12, discuss nerf in v13


chattius

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I think that will be the perfect scenario, I'd like to see how Holy Bolt does at peak performance.  If you can get it to be a powerhouse against non-Undead/Demons it will be impressive. It has half the damage of comparable single-target spells like the Sorceress's Firebolt or Fist of the Heavens.  However against Undead and Demons it should be roughly triple damage.

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@Flix So, is there a reason as to why you've removed the spawn point in the Orc Cave? I know it's not needed, because between SS and the better drop rate it really isn't, but it was one of those special places. Care to share your reasoning?

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A demon called The Butcher slaughtered all the Orcs in the cave and took up residence there. There should be a dying Paladin outside the cave that tells you the story.

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Hell difficulty, big machine, 4 guardians. Killed all 4 without seeing them. Holy fire has now a range which allows to stay behind the walls for the final fight.

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14 hours ago, Flix said:

A demon called The Butcher slaughtered all the Orcs in the cave and took up residence there. There should be a dying Paladin outside the cave that tells you the story.

Yeah, I met both of them. I'm just curious as to why remove such a renowned spawn point.

10 hours ago, chattius said:

Hell difficulty, big machine, 4 guardians. Killed all 4 without seeing them. Holy fire has now a range which allows to stay behind the walls for the final fight.

Are you using anything else for combat art range +x% other than Nlovae's Mystery and Glacial Defender?

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Enhanced Perception is at mastery and around 250. One sigil set gives magic find, The other combat art range. Trading often gives nice rewards when finishing a quest...

I think she isn't using Nlovae with +CA-range but a staff with +x% intelligence. Holy fire gets better range the higher the CA-level, currently 121. +CA-range is around 50%.

I do hard watching her play. My spoken French is way better than my reading and writing, so I did the pictures from sacredwiki:

 

Kilthemalset.jpg

 

Soporgloves.gif

 

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37 minutes ago, Androdion said:

I'm just curious as to why remove such a renowned spawn point.

I never held much regard for it.

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So, finally finished Normal. Took my sweet time and raised the toon past mastery level so now I'm running with an active tripple buff and Ancient Magic mastery. Yeah, it's brutal! Then I just went all in and bought myself a Galvanic Tiger (Elite, aspect) which on top the usual bonuses also gives a precentage boost to shield energy and damage to demons. Poor Baal, Diablo and Mephisto... Between that and a fully modded Holy Bolt they fall down in two-three strikes. Other bosses go down just as fast with FotH. And my shield, when mounted, already comes close to 100k! Damn that's brutal.

Anyway I think I'm going to stick to the plan and rush Hard to start questing again in Nightmare since there's no real challenge right now. Aiming at mastering the remaining Focus and Lore skills of the aspects and then start thinking about what else to do with my skill points.

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Yes. It is one of the rare builds where you master CA-focus and CA-lore not right away. Concentration, Ancient Magic and Damage Lore are way more importamt and really boost the damage once mastered.

Because Holy Fire gives +x% fire damage, +x fire damage, +CA-Range and buying '+x to all skills' makes trading (if choosen) another canditate for early mastering. In this case I would do Ancient Magic as fourth mastery because allready having a high level Conviction with all the +Skills items.

My daughter delayed doing quests till hell difficulty which she reached at level 104 with the 2nd Burgfräulein I think.

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Do you think Damage Lore trumps the aspect Lore skill in terms of damage? Since I'm also using HB and FotH I went for it first to have faster execution speed and higher criticals. The same with Focus, since I don't have Trading and a ton of +All Skills then I went for the aspect Focus skills for a higher value on the buffs (and shield).

I guess that it depends on how much you can raise the skills without point investment. With that being said this is the first build I'm playing (like ever) where defensive skills are left behind, which is noteworthy. I usually always master Armor Lore first, but I only have it at 5 points for having 1 point in Toughness. And it still works, he he. Nice build idea indeed.

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13 hours ago, Androdion said:

Poor Baal, Diablo and Mephisto... Between that and a fully modded Holy Bolt they fall down in two-three strikes. Other bosses go down just as fast with FotH.

Wow. Do you mind uploading the character so I can do some tests with her?

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2 hours ago, Androdion said:

Do you think Damage Lore trumps the aspect Lore skill in terms of damage? Since I'm also using HB and FotH I went for it first to have faster execution speed and higher criticals. The same with Focus, since I don't have Trading and a ton of +All Skills then I went for the aspect Focus skills for a higher value on the buffs (and shield).

I guess that it depends on how much you can raise the skills without point investment. With that being said this is the first build I'm playing (like ever) where defensive skills are left behind, which is noteworthy. I usually always master Armor Lore first, but I only have it at 5 points for having 1 point in Toughness. And it still works, he he. Nice build idea indeed. 

 

Once the CA's are modified: Mastery of aspect lore is like +100% damage. It is useful for FoH and HB but not really for Holy Fire since it allready has a high buildin +x% fire damage.

Mastery of Damage Lore however multiplies the burn damage. And burn damage can be easily same damage as direct hits from Holy Fire. So for a passive runner Damage lore mastery is more important than aspect lore mastery in my opinion.

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You guys want to know how brutal this build is? I've just gone from Sloeford to the Wastelands in some four hours, while raising ten levels. I just didn't do the entire run because, well, sleep and all that stuff. But my oh my, I hope the next difficulty level gets more challenging. Otherwise I think this kind of build could be even more broken than a BFG build. I mean, you don't even have to aim... :3lmao:

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But in difference to a BFG build you have to reach level 75 for full power. It is a character for people who see the long plan. And because it is a long plan character making it your smith and high level trader is a very valid option. '+allSkills equipment' works like a charm for playing, for trading and for blacksmithing. No need to change equipment when you do a trading session. Whenever seeing a shop you can trade without changing equipments except sometimes a click to the down left corner for changing resists ;)

Waiting at the portal 20s without moving. Just to show how it is in Hell at level 142. Could be that some burning mobs were running away, but only for one tick. You can play the character with 'tab' pressed most of the time.

MadMaidMadeleine.jpg

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I agree, this has all the specs to be the ultimate support build. It's easy to grind and level up, trading like you say involves little effort and the amount of firepower it packs allows for skill space for General Skills without compromising its sustainability. I've played conservatively as I usually do because I have a tendency to go head first into packs of mobs, so I've chosen Armour Lore and Toughness for added survival skills. But to be honest I think this build can even live without that as long as Holy Shield is up and running, so it frees two slots for Trading and Blacksmith.

Regarding the aspect Lore skill I have two things to say. One, it's great to have it mastered because HB and FotH are executed very fast and when walking by mobs with Holy Fire you get crits crits crits. I mean you hear the criticals hitting constantly! The downside of that is that apart from bosses I had little to no use for HB and FotH in my run last night, so investing that many skill points for modifying them seems almost like a waste at the moment. I basically ran 90% of the campaign "just" with the triple buff combo. So in that respect you could say that there's room for even more development there in terms of investing in General Skills.

If Closed Net would still be alive I think people would love to play in a team with this build and hate playing against it. :D

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I think I probably went overboard with increasing Chance for Critical Hits in v12. I didn't realize it could be stacked up to 100%. I caught this before the latest EE release but D2F went out with tripled critical chances from all sources.  I'll have to revise this for v13.

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8 hours ago, Flix said:

D2F went out with tripled critical chances from all sources

What exactly does that mean?

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27 minutes ago, Androdion said:

What exactly does that mean?

The Chance for Critical Hits modifier on items is increased 2-3 fold.  In retrospect I should have only done it where it was made sense, like weapon lore & mastery skill bonuses. But I also didn't realize they all just stacked right on up to 100%.  You could probably just stick Enhance in every socket and get there.

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Yeah that doesn't sound good. That's probably why I'm getting crits left and right since I have the aspect Lore skill mastered and the increased crits mods on offensive CAs. I just ran the Wastelands in Hard, which I didn't last night, and it was super fast. Even the last Guardian was down in four hits. This is starting to feel like a build abusing %LL, except the effect on regular mobs is even greater than on bosses.

One thing I realised just now is that one of the silver mods for Holy Fire is to have the aura range increased by 2 meters, and yet the aura has a scaling range with increased CA level. That's clearly making it OP, and since you can already choose to increase its radius with one of the mods and you can increase it further via +%combat art range I think the scaling range should be removed entirely. I mean, I have a Glacial Defender and a Nlovae's Mystery in my chest and I don't even need to use them. Focus skill master, 200 runes, a few +all skills/+CA arts and I have enough range (almost 13 meters now) to kill some enemies before they're even on the screen. Also the Elite mount's boost to damage to demons is total overkill. It's now granting an almost 50% bonus. Now add to that Holy Bolt's already boosted damage to demons, plus your entire skill set and gear. It's just too much. Same thing can be said about Holy Shield, which is pretty much impenetrable right now. I don't know how it stands against vanilla Divine Protection but right now if it's up I don't even need to dodge.

I think there's lots to be nerfed according to this build. I've just started Nightmare and they're also dropping like flies. Is this Inferno Patch even working?! :D

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15 minutes ago, Androdion said:

I think there's lots to be nerfed according to this build.

Damn right.  Mostly all I hear about is CA's that under-perform, I guess no one wants to complain about being too good at the game.  :lol:

I think my first step is to start over with Holy Fire and Holy Shield and compare them to Incandscent Skin and Divine Protection, respectively, to see where I went "wrong."  Range is obviously a big factor I didn't think about.

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Ha ha, it's good to see you're taking this with joy in your heart. :)

Still regarding the Elite mount, toon level 95 and mount level 100 with max shield energy +63% and bonus damage to demons +58%. HS when mounted goes up to 177k! :nono: Just so you can realise, Pindleskin drops in one hit of HB. And since I'm at it I may as well mention Conviction as well. Bronze mod Singe which gives enemy sensitivity to fire 10%+1% per CA level. With Focus mastery and 150 runes eaten the skill is at level 84.5, so that amounts to almost -95% fire resistance on enemies?! Never mind Weaken and Assurance being present. I mean, ouch... Also funny it's the fact that the negative bonus to enemy armour at this level is 91,5%. So not only it's virtually negating fire resistance but it's doing the same to armour. So unless mobs have energy shields they're pretty much toast, even more with HF having 11,5k of damage.

I think Chattius uncovered a perfect storm with this build as everything seems to add on top of everything else.

PS: Forgot to mention Prayer and the mods for scaling INT and WIL. At CA level 91.5 I have over 3k of each attribute. The scaling bonus is too much. The pseudo-Constitution mastery aspect of the buff isn't that troublesome because mobs can hit you hard enough and it doesn't have a scaling bonus HP like Constitution has, but the silver and gold mods have bonuses that scale too fast. And again INT gives more power to HF and HB and FotH. It's a loop.

FOOTNOTE: I've just gone up to old Gar in Nightmare and it fell down just to HF in some 10 seconds. It's getting ridiculous, I think I'll stop playing now. :lol:

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1 hour ago, Androdion said:

I've just gone up to old Gar in Nightmare and it fell down just to HF in some 10 seconds. It's getting ridiculous, I think I'll stop playing now. 

I attached an emergency hotfix spells.txt.  Please try this out and tell me how it does.  I haven't tested, back up your character in case I did something dumb like omitting a comma.  Modification texts will still have old text/formulae.

Changes:

Conviction -

  • Duration and hits per second now match. I believe Conviction was applying its effects over and over, stacking instead of just renewing.  It now hits once every 2 seconds, and the duration of the debuffs lasts 2 seconds. This should prevent the debuffs from stacking.
  • Singe/Chill/Zap modifications: Sensitivity increase per CA level halved.
  • Assurance modification: Enemy armor penalty per level reduced by a factor of 10. Now reduces 1 armor point per CA level instead of 10.

Holy Fire -

  • Base fire damage halved.  This is still slightly higher than Incandescent Skin because there is a scaling fire damage % built into the buff.
  • Hits per second now scales much slower.  Before, Holy Fire would double its hit frequency by CA level 200.
  • Base range decreased from 10m to 2m. Range scaling reduced from 0.1m per level to 0.02m per level.
  • Innate Chance for Burning halved.
  • Explosive modification: Range scaling per level halved.
  • Flames modification: Fire damage % bonus halved.

Holy Shield -

  • Duration scales ever so slightly with CA level now. This will result in 2 full seconds gained at max CA level.
  • Shield Energy scaling per CA level halved.

Prayer - 

  • Perseverance/Insight modifications: Willpower/Intelligence scaling changed from granting 30 attribute points per level to 1 attribute point per level.

spells.txt

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