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Barbarian - Captain America build


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The main idea of shield lore is to unlock block chance melee, block chance ranged or x defense in a shield. In case of Steve: howl is disarming so no ranged, shout together with iron skin gives a lot of defense,  so that leaves melee block. But I think enemies will be slowed a lot by howl before being in melee range. So probably not really needed.

 

Toughness' main use is DM. It can shine if you have already a lot of Damage Mitigation from gear or buff. Then few per cent make a big difference

10% DM added to 30% from gear is 40%. So a hit with 1000 damage would do 600 instead of 700 damage.

If gear and buff add to 80% it would be 90%. 100 instead of 200 damage, the  damage is halved....

 

Divine Devotion (with Philios)- it covers the main weakness of the build: spell protection. It could be a single point wonder: a weapon slot to boost divine devotion and/or +xCombat Arts, a relics slot with 3 relics adding to Divine Devotion. Both used just before activing Redemption. 80s cooldown instead 400s could be possible with a single point this way by having some +allSkills in equipment.

 

Alchemy - hate it or love it. Spellblock charms, magic find charms, heal potions healing 100% at highest diff, mentors lasting minutes, ... Just the usage has to be trained and learned. Again, could be a one point wonder if using a weapon slot to boost alchemy and potion duration before use.

 

I would consider alchemy and divine devotion because they can be kept at 1 hard point for a long long time and both can take advantage of booster slots.

 

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Let's go by parts:

2 hours ago, chattius said:

The main idea of shield lore is to unlock block chance melee, block chance ranged or x defense in a shield. In case of Steve: howl is disarming so no ranged, shout together with iron skin gives a lot of defense,  so that leaves melee block. But I think enemies will be slowed a lot by howl before being in melee range. So probably not really needed.

This is what I had in mind. One time I was playing with Steve and thinking about how good it'd be to have a Kira's Wall, only to realize that my cheap yellow shield and Iron Skin were already doing most of it. Between the flat defense bonus on Iron Skin plus Shout I don't need any extra defense, and as for blocking melee and ranged I'm already covered as well (reflect also "blocks" incoming damage) . I haven't really noticed fighter mobs doing me much harm. Like I told you before I like to round them up, but a Howl+Stun followed by Whirlwind normally breaks their ranks pretty hard. This will also allow me to use unique shields without thinking if they have block chance or not. So yay. :)

2 hours ago, chattius said:

Toughness' main use is DM. It can shine if you have already a lot of Damage Mitigation from gear or buff. Then few per cent make a big difference

10% DM added to 30% from gear is 40%. So a hit with 1000 damage would do 600 instead of 700 damage.

If gear and buff add to 80% it would be 90%. 100 instead of 200 damage, the  damage is halved....

While your calculations are always better than mine I'm also factoring that when I'll need more than what Natural Resistance can bring I can count on DM bonus being unlocked by Armor Lore mastery. Right now in Hard that bonus is very much in line with the value from having a single hard point in Toughness (plus the bonuses from gear). More DM is always better, but in terms of balancing what I can balance I can see NR being quite optimal. I don't get to suffer much damage that a health pot or two can't fix. So I'd say there's indeed room for trying out a variant without those two skills. It may not be optimal but it can make room for other kind of improvements.

With that in mind I was quite disappointed no notice that Alchemy, Magic Find and Trading are all secondary skills in the Barbarian class. :( Meaning that I can't have two of those three. Divine Devotion would be an interesting route if not for me looking a lot at Bul-Kathos for its %LL bonus, which would cover the ground until I can get a full working set with that. No point in investing much in Divine Devotion then. One thing I've noticed about this build is that while it's very self-sufficient because of the sinergies between the three buffs it does need very specific equipment. And between Magic Find and Trading I'd rather have better chances of finding better gear than spending my time browsing vendor after vendor for that specific piece. I'm considering choosing Blacksmith to unlock Magic Find because not only are my bronze sockets underused but also the hit chance bonus can release a silver socket for something else. Battle Orders already provides a boost to CTOCEA, with Blacksmith arts providing a bonus to OCTE it's a few more free sockets for damage rings!

While doing some sketches (work today was very very quiet) I had this idea of not mastering Armor Lore "right away". Meaning that I'd leave it at 1 hard point until I could master all three Focus skills and would fill the gap with bonuses from gear, which I've found to be very nice (somewhat in their 30+ above level 100). Using RpH, having Concentration mastered and mastering the Focus skills makes the regen times for the CAs I use very easy to manage, so having AL in its 50-60s with a single point seems enough in terms of the armour penalty. Not sure if it'll cut it for movement penalty though. As for flat armour values I'm counting on the resistance bonus from Iron Skin, plus three Armantin pieces if needed be. Should that be enough?!

Funny how my first sketch was so conservative and now I'm pretty much throwing half of it in the wind! :D

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Yes, this is often the case. You start with a fighter in mind and then you notice that some problems could be solved without any investment:

Problem with reflective buffs on enemies- unmodified Grimward

Mages - God Power can be a help even without divine devotion

weapon block, DM, stat reducing from howl, .... all this become better and better with hight CA.

 

So you think was I really needing all this early defense. Couldn't I have just played more carefully till the CA's are high enough and free some skills for general ones? The bad thing is: even after 12 years I still have this thinking.

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I guess it's not such a bad thing when it makes us care about this game for so long. I always liked the way it makes me think and think and think, so at least the brain exercises a bit. :D

Last night I ran a test, duplicated the save game and used Char Editor to try the "new" skill set. Same gear same everything, just the nuances of having two different skills and a different mastery. I went around Sloeford a bit in Nightmare and it was pretty much OK, decided to do a Guardian run thinking that'd be a good indicator. I could kill them nice and easy even with the different skill set so it seemed alright on paper.

Afterwards I began a new toon and one of the changes is having War Cries Focus as my second skill, both to replace an early 5 points spent in Combat Discipline for unlocking Concentration and to modify Howl from the start. I've noticed just how much it became a part of my gameplay dynamics so I wouldn't want to spend 80-90 levels without it. Man, at low levels a level 1 Howl+Stun is pretty much a blessing! You can basically round them up, cast the combo, circle around, repeat and leave them to die without having to slap them. It avoids health pot chugging at early levels very easily. Elites need a bit of an extra push though.

So far it's going well. I've spent around 80 hours on my previous incarnation of Steve, let's see how much I spend on this one. :blush:

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Yes, modifying howl first is the same idea I had with my singer. Battle order buff is the third buff taken, grimward is good even unmodified, shout needs high ca-levels, ... So howl is the combat art in war cries tree which brings the most early on.

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Indeed it is! I have it fully modified by level 10 in Thylysium so it's a huge help for bands of skellies and harpies from Clearview onwards. Grim Ward's only modification for my build would be the bronze one, but Howl already covers that, and yeah Battle Orders as great as it is will have to wait until Concentration mastery. It's great but I modify it for raising the offensive aspects (War Song, Implacable, Steady), and it goes extremely well with Constitution mastery. :)

I will say, this build requires a heavy investment in runes! Apart from War Cry every other CA is being used, though Leap Attack is kept at level 1. :cool:

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Do you do the Wild Twine quest for Steve?

The reward looks nearly castum made for the build, especially since my lvl140 hell diff ring has three tokens. Third would be spell intensity - useful for all the spells: like god power, howl, grim ward, stun, ....

silitharsfingerhoop.gif

 

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I sure do, that ring is tip top for this toon. :) And it's easy to get it because that quest is at an early stage in the Cursed Forest. I tend to do it after completing the main quest to get it at a higher level.

Another good one is Nyarlathotep's Creeping Madness which is a reward in the Bengaresh area (start the Commander's quest in Khorum near the monolith and do the chain quest until you complete Blinded). It gives a bonus to deadly strike and CTOCEA. It's two stones in one ring, but Silithar's is even better!

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Trying a sort 'Jack of all Trades' barbarian. Starting with an empty chest.

Finished Hellfire Arena on easy at level 8:

2 Tactics Lore (8)

3 Warcry Focus (6)

5 Divine Devotion - Philios(1)

8 Armor Lore (1)

Tactics lore was used to modify Iron Skin and Berserk, Warcry Focus for Howl. Since all difficulties were unlocked I used to buy three +10 relics with Divine Devotion at hell, lowering the cooldown of the godpower by nearly the half. Also I forged on hell difficulty with the city smith.

I used Berserk together with unmodified Shout in a combination, unmodified Grim Ward and another combination with Howl and Frenzy.

I placed the Grim Ward allways before talking in the arena. God Power was used the same way when I considered a fight dangerous, as with the 5 Elemental Lords.

 

planed

12 concentration

18 warcry lore

25 berserk focus

35 tactical warfare focus

50 combat discipline

65 ancient magic

 

It has all my Singer has, only that I replaced Alchemy by Tactic Lore. Tactics Lore is taken first to start more fighter like but with an early modified Howl to slow and weaken enemies.

50 combat discipline and 65 antimagic are for the metamorphosis from a fighter to a caster/priest in late game.

I hope this way the character gives long time fun. No need to start a new character because you want something different than a fighter. Just levelup, choose gear and you can play something different with the same character, Even a Captain America playstyle should be possible around level 35 upwards.

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Interesting variation you've got there. :) And remember that a well placed Grim Ward, as in right on top of an enemy's head, can pretty much insta-hit if the firing frequency is high enough. Sometimes you can get that effect in the Arena and some mobs go down very fast. You just hear the speakers popping and cracking, ha ha.

One of the key components for early game pure fighter is Concentrate, since its silver mod gives you access to RpH (1 sec for starters), and if you take the first mod for added hit chance then it barely ever misses. So a modded Concentrate placed at the end of a combo can grant you inst-regen and you can cycle through your different CAs. It's a good early game tactic until you can get some RpH jewellery.

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I valued iron skin as a first buff over natural resistances. So concentrate would be the second CA in this tree to be modified and then stun which is a spell. With howl'ed enemies berserk and frenzy are nice at low levels too.

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Sure thing, enemies slower and your toon faster is pretty good. Concentrate is my go to tactic for spamming combos, and the more I level up the faster I can eat runes into my killing CAs. But I tend to round up big groups for spamming them, then debuff and damage galore. :)

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I've been playing a bit on the slow side, not much progression, mainly because I've been very tired lately. Fell asleep with my hands on the keyboard more times than I'd like, so gaming hours have been reduced. Steve v.2.0 has been going well though.

Remember how I skipped Shield Lore since the penalty for wearing a high level shield was solely to attack speed? Well, I've got a Glacial Defender drop at level 60 with the shield being level 75. Equipped it and not only did I get a hefty penalty to attack speed (which really isn't an issue) but it also made my casting speed drop. Why? No idea. Point is, suddenly I've gotten my casting speed much lower than it was without it equipped, though not in the same measure as attack speed was penalised. Still, I found this to be a bit awkward. Must be some hidden coding. :dntknw:

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  • 2 weeks later...

Slow progression still, but finishing Normal as it is. Arena completed, though I've had the same issues at the same places, which isn't saying much considering how I've changed my skill set in defensive terms. So enemies having more or less the same impact on Steve tells me that my choices were correct, or that at least the risks I took in char design paid off. Either way this is going well and having Blacksmith and Magic Find has been an interesting experience. The first allows me to make better use of the sockets, and with the bonuses from a few gear pieces I can get very decent bonuses from the Blacksmith arts as well. Funny though, when socketing one of those the third bonus is variable to your level of the Blacksmith skill. Having Magic Find makes my stash look much more interesting. :D I have a complete Pandamonium's Pride set, from which I'm using five parts, while Doom Guard Armour and Denderan's are only missing one piece to be completed, plus several other set pieces. First one those two being completed will become my "boss suit" since completing them give a %LL bonus. It should be interesting for doing the Arena and bypassing the low damage issue from not using a weapon.

My end game goal is to get that Tooth and Nail mini-set so I can ride with %LL everywhere without having to compromise on my gear choices. Until then a "boss suit" will suffice. :) Oh an by the way, I've got a legendary drop from Radament when doing his quest, and a nice one!

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Just a quick note to say that after complaining so much about those goodies from olden days not dropping I've managed to secure three fan favourites with Steve 2.0. None other than Kaldur's Legacy, Tinwora's Curse and Artamark Star, all three of which are fan favourites. Add to that a Glacial Defender and a Kaleidoscopic Evangelist and I'm very much enjoying running with Magic Find in D2F. :D

Summary for set pieces:

  • Pandamonium's Pride - complete
  • Denderan's Tactical Genius - 1 piece left
  • Doom Guard Armor - 1 piece left (well, 2 if you count the shield for the full 10 pieces)
  • Armantin's Legacy - 3 pieces left
  • Lucreti's Stars - 3 pieces left
  • Centurio's Insignia - 2 pieces left

Other than those I have one piece from Infernal Torment and two from Scourge of Lordaeron. This is at level 82 after completing Normal and making the jump to Hard. I've ran with Magic Find since level 65 and I've started dropping every skill point other than the one on Tactics Lore on that skill. Right now it has 61 hard points, which is the same to say that with Ancaria Airlines and Feed the Poor I can master it in three more levels. After that it's parked and I'm going for the Focus skills, first War Cries for raising Battle Orders even further since that buff is the hidden engine on this build (War Song, Implacable, Steady), and then the other two for raising the killing arts, damage output and defensive buffs even more.

As funny as it may be, having a single point in Armor Lore is going extremely well. This build has a big emphasis on +Defensive Skills, which is easy to get from both set pieces and blue amulets, and a couple of +Armor Lore amulets socketed into the gear do the rest. I may have to invest into mastering Blacksmith earlier than I thought I would since the higher it is the better the variable bonuses are. So maybe that'll be my eighth mastery and I'll leave Armor Lore and Combat Discipline for last. Still just a thought at this time, there's a really long way to go down that road.

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Yes Magic Find is nice. I think in D2F Magic Find, Blacksmith and Trading are closer together in importance than in the old game. Saw this when my daughter played a Burgfräulein paladin build.

 

The ultimate archaeologist, finding nearly everything:

Necromancer with corpse explosion for a second drop

Magic Find

Alchemy and cloverleaf trophies

 

It is the character I started at firefighters.

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Sounds like an interesting plan. :) I took a cursory look at the Necromancer's CAs and wasn't too enticed to be honest. Maybe I should look at them again in the future.

I had forgot to do the Blinded quest in Normal to get Nyarlathotep's Creeping Madness, so I went back and what would you know, the last piece I was missing from the Doom Guard Armor dropped. And when it rains it pours they say, as a Devilkin in Hard near Sloeford dropped another piece of it. Suffice to say that I've spent most of the night in the Arena. :D I made a backup of the save file and tested some different variants. To be honest once you see %LL you basically forgo all notions of tactics in favour of brute force. Turns out that I was right in my assessment as I had to go back to the drawing board and change the sockets more than a couple of times. Ultimately I found a comprise that worked well enough and I could beat the Arena by level 84 (!). Still, it wasn't as easy as I'd thought it would be. Many enemies were still very tough and if I stopped hitting them I'd see my HP bar go "bam bam bam". I also got to see some old foes do some new tricks, or at least some that I had never noticed before. Warlord of Blood for instance has a nasty trap that goes by easily undetected when in the Arena. Fighting more than one Elemental Lord at a time is manageable except for the Poison and Earth lords' traps which are deadly, and of course fighting the Lightning Lord alone is a chore enough in and on its own. Mathael was one of those cases where I couldn't stop damaging him and the Zakarum Council was one of the hardest fights, strangely enough as they were very tame in previous difficulty levels. So thanks to that I already have Magic Find mastered and I can now split the skill points over the Focus skills.

I'm curious about how much the Arena mobs bite in Nightmare or Hell. If right now at levels 96-97 in Hard some are already hard fights I can only imagine in Hell with a level 100ish. I'll see it when I get there.

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I hate traps. I play mainly at night when nightwatch at firefighters or my wife having night readiness and is visiting patients. But tired and traps are not the best combination. That is another reason I like my Singer build .You can run around and still do damage.

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I hate traps as well.

I think that I learned something about the Arena last night. It's probably a good tactic to engage the fight and step back before start swinging, letting them do their tricks for a few seconds and then start going at them. Sure it's a risk when depending on %LL to cover a wide gap in level, but that first impact the more you climb in difficulty seems to be something to avoid. More so being that I'm not using Redemption as a God Power and that Grim Ward only dispels buffs.

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Ah, long sleepless nights. The perfect setup to play a grindy ARPG such as this one. :D

Steve 2.0 is up and running in Nightmare, spending the night in Sloeford before heading out for more adventures in Ancaria. This remake of my original Captain America build is feeling definitely better, with the different skill set performing very well. Magic Find in particular has been a very good friend, I've gotten nearly five sets completed and a few other parts awaiting the remaining pieces. Shame that I couldn't get the helmet for the Infernal Torment set since I have the other two pieces. With those three I'd have a huge bonus to visibility range and I could get some extra mileage on revealed map. Nevertheless I've been getting lucky with legendaries since I've got a Silala's Ring and the amulet from the Bergonix set (which is legendary tier though set item). I'm guessing that I'll be able to snatch some more goodies.

I was able to make the whole run (main quest, extra points quests, Wild Twine and Blinded quests, Elemental Lords, Hellfire Arena) and unlock Nightmare seven levels below and with some 16 hours less on this toon, so yeah it's going very well. My nemesis nearly gave me a heart attack though, but I was able to survive. I'm pretty sure he's going to have me in Nightmare though, even with %LL. Just a gut feeling, ha ha. Anyway, my biggest doubt right now is if it's worth investing in Blacksmith mastery to have much better variable bonuses so I can have more flexibility in my gear choice. I'm still using the same config, with five pieces of Pandamonium's Pride, but a mastered Blacksmith skill should provide bonuses good enough to start using more of the Blacksmith Arts in my sockets.

As funny as it may be I'm still using an arm piece I've got in Normal. Why? It has bonuses to spell intensity, deadly strike, damage %physical and casting speed, which is modified by Armor Lore, plus a silver socket. It's just brutal, and even provides better casting speed than a level 100 Silithar's Finger Hoop! Very very cool. I hope I can start finding stuff like this in Nightmare, but with much higher bonuses. Fingers crossed. :moil:

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