An easy character for a returning Sacred 2 player?

SLD · September 29

16 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

OMG how do you do this? You say you're a slow typer! I'm a real fast typer, I type much faster than I write with a pen, and I got fed up with it after asking two real questions

I answered your questions yesterday. I basically did nothing else yesterday. That is how I do it.
Looking at the "what's new" page I can see I liked a post at "7:04 am" local time and posted the answer to your questions at "12:50 pm". I got interrupted twice yesterday each time for about an hour+ that still leaves around 3 hours for the post. I'm not necessarily very slow at typing but I am very slow at creating text. Also for the guide, not so much for the answers, I also do some "research" e.g. looking up the correct english names for the skills on the wiki, for your answer I had to find and copy the link from xeyp's thread and look up the divine protection wiki article etc. Writing when I know exactly what to write word by word would not take that long at all, but I still have to write in a foreign language and am not very skilled in "writing things that make sense to others"

16 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

1.: How come you don't die like this? 2.: How the heck is it possible, you don't die like this, really?

And the shortest and ,most important answer is probably "I don't play campaign".

16 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

So you do die occasionally, and that's good to know. That makes me feel better! I thought you do this suicidal approach without ever suffering such a thing.

I don't directily try to avoid this. I use this option to find out wether I'm ready to kill that boss yet/ ready to switch to that region etc. I could play in a more careful way. It would just also take more time and I am far too greedy for that
Playing hardcore just requires all the knowledge that you'd gather when playing through the same game version often. In Sacred 1 you already know enough so that you don't get surprised like Timotheus anymore(from his sig):
" ~ Thylysium Cemetary: Timotheus Level 100 Dark Elf
He was stunned to be unexpectedly frazzled in Hell's Ridge."
Once you have played Sacred 2 as much as Sacred 1 you'll know that teleporting to the orc region shouldn't be done before you can handle level 13/14+ orcs because you'd know they don't go lower in level
I recently underestimated the fire caves and got destroyed with a bold and underleveled TG, who just wanted to get to cheesing the carnach really early
The addendum was a lot less forgiving there than the base game would have been, I guess. But guessing is all I can do here because I don't have all that experience to know all the details for all the mod versions...
Basically hardcore requires "know a lot" and "be aware and react quickly when something goes wrong".
I'm really bad at both. I may know the game's mechanics but I don't know their exact stats and then calculate wether I stand a chance against them beforehand. I make a guess and if I die, I try again later.
Playing the campaign for me would mean either dying often to things I didn't know about, or really outlevelling the stuff going level 40+ on kobolds and very carefully moving on then.

16 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

Then the problem is with my hardcore mania, of course! It all started with Diablo 2, and now I can't ever play these games in any other way. And I can't let any of the bosses live either, sadly

There are 2 ways to improve. The build and the player. Improving the build takes a basic understanding of the game and a lot of mechanical knowledge. Improving the player beyond a certain point takes a lot of time and work and at some point probably talent as well. I improve the build so I can get away with being a crappy player. Those who enjoy the journey of improving themselves (=the player) at some time might end up even intentionally playing bad builds to show off their achievement in their player kung fu
If you like playing hardcore, slamming your face against the ever increasing difficulty of the game and trying to get further with every attempt you must at least have some alignment with category 2 I guess

16 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

The Carnach and what? Soulstone? But...but that's Diablo, no? What soulstone? Sorry if I'm missing something really obvious here!

No, that one is not obvious
I checked the wiki:
https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Map_Icons
What I was talking about is referred to a "Soulstone/Active Soulstone"(literal translation) in the german version. But the english game version(according to the wiki) calls it a "Monolith". The most ridiculous part of it is that "Monolith" would have worked well in the german version, too. Why the devs chose differently I have no clue. And yes, calling that thing a "Soulstone" was confusing back when Sacred 2 came out, for the same reason it confused you here as in german you'd also first thing of the Diablo thing

16 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

So just one short answer, and you can be off to recharge for the lightsaber build!

yup. turned out super short (~1hr) :4rofl:
What takes all that time? I think it's actually all the stuff that doesn't make it into the post, that I think through anyway, like examples and explanations for how I play and when I die etc. I basically talk these things through to see how I feel about this imaginary conversation. It's not a real conversation so I get an unlimited amount of do-overs. But obviously I don't put all of that in writing. Some things I try in a different order, some things I cut entirely. That's probably the most time consuming part. That I don't exactly know what to say and retry a couple of times in my head until I'm happy with something that still ain't great poetry, but at least it's better than nothing

Sethi22 · September 29

Oh, the monolith near it to respawn! Now I get it, lol! First it was complete nonsense for me, and then after thinking it through, I finally came to the conclusion, that this must be some feature of the D2 fallen mod, so you could get some sort of uber item called "soulstone" from the boss in that mod, And that's what you're after! I even pictured the item in my mind, putting lots of mitigation from all sources on it, and everything. It was strong!

5 hours ago, SLD said:

If you like playing hardcore, slamming your face against the ever increasing difficulty of the game and trying to get further with every attempt you must at least have some alignment with category 2 I guess

Yep, that's what makes me tick. Although I'm not a real hardcore playa, because if my char dies, I use the editor first to revive him, take the items out, and then I slaughter it again with the editor, or ingame, cursing brutally and loudly during the whole process. Mostly myself, but a lot of other things as well... This is how it goes.

Ok sir, no more questions, you've passed all the trials! Your pasture awaits! And we await your return with the lightsaber build! C ya! :bye:

Edited September 29 by Sethi22

SLD · September 29

So I guess it's time to listen to the Force-cow :connie_xmas-moose: :starwars:
and meditate on its wisdom

On 9/1/2024 at 11:09 PM, SLD said:

--Lightsaber SW
---getting a lightsaber
---attribute choices
---skill choices
---combat art ugrades
---something about gear
---maybe something on gameplay
----left/right click
---different variants pure death warrior/ death warrior and malevolent/ death warrior and astral?

SACRED 2

IT IS A PERIOD OF UNCIVILIZED SLAUGHTER.
REBEL SHADOW WARRIORS, STRIKING FROM
A HIDDEN ATTRIBUTE BASE, HAVE WON THEIR
FIRST VICTORY AGAINST THE
EVIL ANCARIAN INQUISITION.

DURING THE BATTLE, REBEL SHADOW WARRIORS
MANAGED TO STEAL THE SECRET PLANS
TO THE INQUISITION'S ULTIMATE WEAPON,
THE LIGHTSABER BUILD, A COMMUNITY PATCH
CHANGE WITH ENOUGH POWER TO
DESTROY AN ENTIRE GAME'S BALANCE.

Or something like that
At least that's how "Episode IV" would have started in the Ancarian movie theaters. I mean they have cars and a submarine so there must be some T-Energy powered movie theaters around, right?

A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away....
... the members of the community patch team's high council thought it was a wise decision to change the lightsaber's bonus damage attribute to "willpower". Thematically that may have made sense, the game balance of Sacred 2 however was not ready for this change.
In Sacred 2 all weapon attack get bonus damage from an attribute. Most melee and ranged weapons either use strength or dexterity for this bonus. Magic Staves get bonus damage from intelligence and post CM-Patch lighsabers get bonus damage from willpower.
There was never an easy way to get a lot of strength and dexterity, there was a temporary dryad buff giving a lot of intelligence and a permanent dragon mage buff also granting a lot of intelligence. So technically the problem of a high attribute bonus creating an overpowered attack build already existed, but playing around a temporary buff sucks and attacking with a dragon mage that has no attack based combat arts sucked as well. On top of that, magic staves are just not cool enough to be used and from the CM-Patch onwards are even permanently screwed with their clunky projectile attack to fix a bug with them being able to melee hit everything on and beyond the screen
So staves where never that great then op bugged and now kinda unusable. Having the potential to get high intelligence for staves always came at that cost.
But what about Willpower? The original game design had no reason to limit access to this attribute as no weapons would be gaining any bonus damage from it and its other effects(Spell Resist and Energy shield amount) are rather pathetic, especially on characters that don't have an energy shield.
Both the dragon mage's "Familiar" and the shadow warrior's "Grim Resilience" are permanent buffs that give 15 points of willpower per CA level. That is huge. The Familiar has the downside of making you a dragon mage again, just like the staff situation before, but the "Grim Resilience" is for shadow warriors and shadow warriors actually know how to use a weapon and have combat arts to use with them.
And that's why we now have Lightsaber Shadow Warriors. It's not just that lightsabers look cool, or that they are "an elegant weapon for a more civilized age", they are also the one weapon type that can get its bonus damage from an attribute that can be easily scaled to far higher values than you normally would have access to, while still being usable with combat arts like any other more "crude" one handed melee weapon.
This elegant weapon is therefore also only specifically interesting in the more civilized age of the CM-Patch and onward through EE and D2F, but while the willpower link remains in the Addendum, Dimitrius has aimed for a "balance in the force" and significantly reduced the buff willpower bonuses there, so it is no longer worth building around the lightsaber.
I did not find any indication on what the Purist Fix Pack did about Lightsabers so I guess for purity reasons this "disturbance in the force" never made it in and they aren't aligned to willpower there.
Also, while D2F may have willpower lightsabers and willpower granting buffs it does not have a Shadow Warrior. So while the same thoughts may apply to a Barbarian there, this build was not specifically written for the case of the Barbarian.

getting a lightsaber:
There are many ways of getting a lightsaber post CM-Patch. There are also two handed lightsabers now which are usually far more common/easier to get, but I would not recommend building around using one of those as they don't have the potential to spawn with %leech and therefore are not worth sacreificing the option of dual wielding or a using a shield.
One handed Lightsabers are extremely rare. They originally could only be bought with bargaining and even then only with sick levels of that skill. Luckily there are other ways to get them as well. The simplest one being the quest:
"A simple case of Nerves". It is Light Campaign exclusive.
As there is no wiki description yet, I will quote an explanation by Hooyaah made here:
https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/23099-mandatory-quests/#comment-6994124
"The quest giver is downstairs in the same building as Tribal Elder Nubbutz the quest giver of the main (Light) quest Among_Orcs who asks you to kill trolls and bring him their teeth as proof so that he can make a necklace out of them. A case of nerves has you escorting the tribal leader's son as you encounter enemies, thereby battle-hardening him. Accepting the quest grants a special light-saber."

The "special lightsaber" is just a random rare lightsaber on current character level.
The important part here, is that the quest does not need to be finished, just accepted and for a light campaign character there are also no hostile orcs between the "Entruag" Portal and the quest giver. It is a sidequest infinitely repeatable in multiplayer and gives a random lightsaber each time, so if you don't want to create some crazy bargaining character, but you want a good lightsaber, this is the way to get it.
The fact that this quest creates a lightsaber at your exact character level also makes it very easy to create a lightsaber on a specific level. My guide on attribute damage found here:
https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/#comment-7145889
explains why we want a low level weapon with lots of sockets.
Lightsabers below level 10 are really bad so the sweet spot lies at level 10 where 2 socketed lightsabers become available. Every level above this will make the weapon worse.
So to get these level 10 lightsabers you have to get a level 10 Light Campaign character to the Entruag portal. Remember that this does not necessarily have to be the shadow warrior you want to play, as the shared stash is a thing. To get to the entruag portal your level 10 light campaign character of choice would go into a multiplayer free play game, chose the correct portal in the starting islands portal cave(I think it's the first or second one on the left, the one with the totem poles ) and then close your eyes and pray, I mean run east, run! Health potions are your friend here.
I am not certain if the lightsabers can already spawn with 2 sockets on bronze difficulty, so to be "safe" I would do it on silver.
WIth a fully equipped level 10 character especially if you chose to do it with a shadow warrior that already has some levels in Grim Resilience this should not be hard.
Alternatively, if you happen to have a higher level character that has the portal you can just open two game clients, multiplayer with yourself, use the portal on the higher level char and teleport onto this "friend" by I think it's Ctrl+left click on their portrait.

Once you have used that quest to farm a 2 socketed lightsaber, blade colour doesn't matter(other than for the looks of course), socket colour gold is preferred, silver is good, bronze is bad but still not the end of the world, you will never again have to replace that weapon. This level 10 double socketed lightsaber is all you need and will always outclass any higher level lightsaber you could find. You also only need one of them even for dual wield builds unless the aesthetics are more important to you than the actual strength of your character, of course
In that case also remember that real men(like Samuel L. Jackson) want a purple lightsaber.

attribute choices:
"Attack rating" from "Strength", "Attack and Defense" from "Dexterity" and "nothing" from "Intelligence" all don't sound worth spending points on.
Vitality's effect is smaller in relation as Grim Resilience already comes with a large bonus to your hitpoints.
Stamina's value is also lessened by the fact that melee characters can use "regen per hit" so they are not that dependent on lowering their regen times via attributes.
Which leaves Willpower, of which we are already getting more than 2000 extra points from Grim Resilience, so again it seems inefficient to put our points into that.
Assuming your baseline(modified by SB) and buff get you to more than 3K willpower already the tiny (401+quest points again modified by SB) amount of attribute points we can spend would increase the Willpower by 20% or less. Willpower is the source of most but not exactly all our base damage so the effect on overall damage would be around that as well.

Is 20% damage increase worth it? (Willpower)
Do we rather lower regen times by a bit so we don't need as much regen per hit? (Stamina)
Or do we go for a chunk of extra life pool?(Vitality)

I'm probably one of those people who'd have all attribute points still unspent when I reach level 200 just because I couldn't decide.
If I can't decide for myself I better leave this decision open for you.
My thoughts here are just:
Stamina can become useless if the endgame regen times aren't changed enough that at least a single roll of regen per hit can be removed from gear as a result. So while this may help a lot in early game it might do nothing in the end.
Vitality might become quite useless once 100% damage mitigation is reached, only giving an unnecessary extra health pool against the occasional leech damage or enemies that cause vulnerability/ have ancient magic mastery to bypass our immunity.
Willpower basically would only become completely useless when we oneshot absolutely everything. (Technically it's a bit more complicated as it only has an effect when it lowers the number of hits we need to kill something...) But the oneshotting "problem" especially on bosses, is not a thing that is gonna happen and the enemies hp are different enough that the damage bonus might not change the amount of hits one specific monster needs, it will change it on another. So willpower is probably the only thing with a "guaranteed" value in endgame.

The choice is yours.

skill choices:

Lightsaber shadow warriors want willpower from grim resilience, therefore we need "Death Warrior Focus". We want "Toughness" for mitigation and "Armor Lore" for regen times, resist, but mostly for getting rid of the movespeed penalty and unlocking mitigation mods linked to "Armor Lore Mastery".

Technically the most minimalistic approach might be doable with only those 3 skills chosen.

Reasonable additions would be:
-either "Dual Wield" or "Shield Lore", obviously never both.
-"Tactics Lore" to increase your damage and get more CA mod points, obviously never a bad choice. When you choose "Dual WIeld" you need an "offensive skill" on the left side anyway and this one would be the only one there that makes sense.
-"Concentration" to allow for the use of a second buff. The regen time reduction is also welcome.
Though I always say melee chars can use "regen per hit" to solve regen problems that is meant for the point where you end up with like 5 seconds instead of 0.2 or something like that. You don't want your char ending up with 40 seconds regen times being forced into using one of these with a nicely displaced decimal point:
https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Signet_Of_Thunder
So you don't need all the regen you can get but having some is still a good idea.
-"Malevolent Champion Focus" to support the "Reflective Emanation" buff and for builds that want to use "Frenzied Rampage" as their main attack combat art.
-"Astral Lord Focus" for making an invisible build variant via Shadow Veil or for using "Spectral Hand" as main attack combat art. I wouldn't recommend going into this aspect, but if I mention one I have to mention the other

Now there are still a few skillslots left and many things to choose from. I already wrote detailed thoughts on most available skills in my BFG-Sera guide here: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/2/#comment-7146200
Most of the reasoning will stay the same here:

Combat Art Skills:
Astral Lord Lore? Only for using "Spectral Hand" which I would not recommend.
Ancient Magic? No, we don't use spells.
Combat Discipline? Regen time and damage effect are small and not really worth it.

Offensive Skills:
There are no Hafted, Polearm or Ranged Lightsabers. When you are going with dual wield Hafted and Sword would only matter for unlocking mods on the offhand weapon and the lightsaber you use. The latter should not have a mod worth unlocking and for the former, I have never seen any mod worth unlocking either. I wouldn't recommend choosing one of those. When you don't choose dual wield the Sword Weapons skill can be used to increase attack speed.
[ I think that the attack speed penalty for an overleveled weapon would not take effect as you wear a low level sword and the socketed rings should not slow it down further but while I'm writing this I start doubting my memory so I'll call that a theory for now ]
Speed Lore? Too weak. See Sera.
Damage Lore? Wouldn't recommend it. Reasoning should be same as with Sera.

Defensive Skills:
Pacifism? I don't play pvp. Do you?
Spell Resist? Probably not worth it, check Sera for details.
Combat Reflexes? Probably not worth it, check Sera for details.
Constitution? Probably even worse than for Sera as we already have great hp pool and regen from Grim Resilience
Shield Lore? I already mentioned it as a potential dual wield alternative. The main point here is that going with a shield allows us to get extra %mitigation from a "Glacial Defender" or "KIra's Wall". But when we do so our attacks will be slowed by overleveled shields which only this skill can fix. The other benefit of this skill is unlocking the huge linked block modifiers on shields that can allow us to avoid annoying side effects from getting hit like "stuns" and "damage" and "leech" etc. Especially the mastery effect of Shield Lore is, according to the wiki, added melee block chance and thereby able to reach 100% melee block. Against melee hits that would be even more OP than 100% mitigation as there is nothing that lowers block chances and it would also work against leech etc. The obvious downside of going with a shield is that you lose the dual wield potential of wearing a weapon in your off hand that can give %leech and the benefits dual wield has with the used attack combat arts like Demonic Blow striking twice and Frenzied Rampage getting a lot more hits in as well(and a more efficient animation).

General Skills:
Divine Devotion? This is still crap, believe me.
Riding? Just as it is for Sera but this time the regen benefits aren't important either so I guess this makes it even worse.
Blacksmith? Shadow Warriors are really great for smithing because their only other way of reaching EP, Alchemy or Bargaining is by picking one of the first three skills and as Riding and Divine Devotion are not that great and you need a smith anyway chosing it on a Shadow Warrior solves both problems at once.
Enhanced Perception? MF is always nice. Details on Sera.
Bargaining? CM patch allows the Shadow Warrior to choose it. Details on Sera.
Alchemy? Again not that great without duping. Maybe there are more details on Sera.

It makes sense to break with the outline again and pull the variants up here:

different variants pure death warrior/ death warrior and malevolent/ death warrior and astral?

Every Lightsaber Shadow Warrior already needs Death Warrior Focus for the Grim Resilience buff.
Death Warrior also already comes with two potentially usable attack skills, Demonic Blow and Scything Sweep.
Scything Sweep can hit multiple things, but you are melee and Scything Sweep has knockback. That sucks.
Demonic Blow can be modded for area damage and swings twice when dual wielding. Remember even though it doesn't look like that you hit twice with your mainhand weapon not once with each weapon.
Demonic Blow is a good solid choice for an attack skill and allows for the most minimalistic build choice, going with only one aspect.

Adding a second aspect to the build can help a lot.
Adding Malevolent Champion Focus and concentration would allow us to use Reflective Emanation as a second buff.
Reflective Emanation is a great random chance defense skill that basically gives reflect chance against everything, attacks and spells. It will still retain defensive benefits even if you reach 100% mitigation as it will still work against leech and other side effects of spells and attacks, potentially(though untested) even giving a chance to not be effected by an enemy debuff skill. As such a skill would always strip Grim Resilience reducing the chance for that to happen might be worth it on its own, but all the annoying stun and root effects or the time in the game where you are not at 100% mitigation make this buff worth it no matter what, so when you add this aspect you absolutely should add Reflective Emanation as well.
Malevolent Champion also provides us with the Frenzied Rampage skill. An alternate option for the main attack CA especially nice with Dual Wield. It cant do area damage but it hits often and has quite some "range" at acquiring new targets when the first one dies. Against bosses it can however be a bad idea as it locks you into a longer attack animation, so if there still is something you might need to dodge I wouldn't recommend using this skill. Later in the game this shouldn't be a problem, especially in EE with the speed caps raised to 450...
Malevolent Champion and Death Warrior are an especially superb and efficient aspect combo as with tactics lore they share the same lore skill for modification points and damage bonuses.

Adding Astral Lord Focus and concentration allows the use of Shadow Veil. Becoming completely invisible this would technically remove the need for the toughness skill and any other defense. You can however still be hit by accident when an enemy casts a skill or ranged attack on a third entity. There is also the possibility that the CM-Patch or EE add or change some monsters to be able to see or even reveal you. As far as I know the base game does not have any of these dangers and I know of no such instances in these mods either. I just want to warn you about the possibility as I haven't tested an invisible character in these mods.
The Astral Lord aspect also has an attack skill, Spectral Hand. That one however would scale it's damage with Astral Lord Lore instead of Tactics Lore and also suck when dual wielding as it will make a longer dual attack animation but still only hit once.
I wouldn't recommend using an invisible shadow warrior, you can be quite a tank when visible and going invisible can cause all kinds of problems from escort quests to guardians not wanting to become damageable and who knows what else in between. Should you go the invisible route anyway, remember not to ever use a basic left click attack as with melee weapons that would make you visible again. Using combat arts is fine no matter which one you choose to use.
As I don't recommend invisibility I also don't recommend using Spectral Hand. It is enourmously inefficient, basically needing both Astral Focus and Lore, having to go with a shield and kinda still wanting tactics lore for grim resilience's hp and hp regen bonuses and wanting the MC Focus for Refelctive Emanation as now you are visible... Too many skills no real value other than that spectral hand has range.

Triple aspect options are just too inefficient to make sense, so just don't make invisible shadow warriors with frenzied rampage or visible ones with spectral hand.

While there are many options here, I would recommend using a Death Warrior/Malevolent Champion combo. That allows for both Demonic Blow and Frenzied Rampage to be used whenever you like, gives the most solid buff combo and all that with the most efficient skill slot usage in the game as you still only need one Lore skill. I also don't think that the defensive benefit's from a shield lore version would be necessary for normal CM-Patch gameplay.

So that would make the recommended version
DW Focus
Tactics Lore
Dual Wield
Concentration for second buff
Armor Lore
MC Focus
Toughness
Blacksmith
Enhanced Perception
and whatever you want

Order isn't particularly strict. At the start you probably won't have enough points for both Focus skills and you should absolutely start with DW Focus. Putting some points in Tactics Lore can help with getting CA mod points earlier and access to dual wield. Be aware that when going dual wield before you can actually permanently use CAs the left click attacks do alternate weapons so for that short period you would need a second lightsaber to fully utilize the build. On the other hand having dual wield increases the number of hits per combat art helping to get to pure CA usage once you have your first regen per hit item.
I didn't want to shove armor Lore too far back etc so this is a reasonable outline but I've also made characters starting with blacksmith->EP so don't worry too much
Grim Resilience giving life and life regen, phys mitigation and, as soon as you have your first lightsaber, damage will carry your build for a long time.

combat art ugrades:

Demonic Blow:
Bronze mod: Vehemence for area damage especially as the open wound alternative is useless.
Silver mod: Poisoning does very little poison damage, Frailty reduces physical armor, which becomes obsolete in cases of 100% chance to ignore armor or when converting most of your damage away from physical. I would go with Poisoning.
Gold mod: Trauma's deep wound lowers enemy max hp. Not good, not bad either. Life Leech gives a nice flat bonus of leech. I would choose Life Leech.

Grim Resilience:
Bronze mod: Fortify's more Life versus Rejuvenation's higher life regeneration? For a long time Rejuvenation is definitely the better choice. Fortify would basically only make sense if you could otherwise be oneshot. I don't see that happening so I choose Rejuvenation. Higher recovery rate would also help in 100% mitigation endgame against leech...
Silver mod: Readiness gives defense. Discipline lowers regen penalty. As we are melee and don't need that much regen I would go for the defense slightly lowering the amount of attack hits getting through. Remember stuff like Ogres can stun with attacks that connect... Annoying even when invulnerable
Gold mod: Safeguard gives a massive amount of physical mitigation. Reflex gives evade chance. This is one of the few mods where I recommend taking the option that might later turn obsolete. Safeguard allows for far earlier 100% phys mitigation and basically ensures 100% phys mitigation even with bad or odd gear choices. The mod is strong all the way until full 100% all channel mitigation is reached which might take somewhere between very long and forever. Go Safeguard!

Reflective Emanation:
Bronze and Silver mod: Backlash and Antimagic based on the assumption that attacks/spells reflected also don't cause stuns/roots and therefore would be kinda covered as well. Otherwise the other 2 mods might be worth it in endgame scenarios where you don't care about the damage taken again assuming that those 2 mods work at all(I wouldn't be so sure of that).
Gold mod: Riposte increases the melee reflect chance even though it says something about damage... Idol only affects others. I don't care about others. Do you?

Frenzied Rampage:
Bronze and Silver mods: Double Attack and Double Strike for more hits with damage and %leech. And because the alternatives give useless open wounds and crit chance. Neither help our damage much as open wounds would get replaced by consecutive hits without doing any damage at all and crits don't affect the attribute bonus damage which is almost all of our damage.
Gold mod: Envenom gives low amounts of poison damage, Vampire gives low amounts of flat leech. I would choose the leech as it ignores armour and gives some extra baseline recovery against small enemies. It shouldn't matter much either way.

Belligerent Vault:
Can be used to get across rivers etc. Mods don't matter much.

Shadow Veil:
"Creep"-"Fade"-"Sinister Pact"

Spectral Hand:
"Clout"-"Chill"-"Double Attack"

You might have noticed that I left out all temporary buffs like "Rousing Command", "Killing Spree" or "Augmenting Guidon". I don't like temporary buffs and the ones available usually aren't worth using. Basically all three of them only help with hit chances and I'd rather have good hit chances all the time instead of sometimes.
If you want to use "Ruinous Onslaught" while mounted for the invincible perma charge go read the wiki page.
If you want to use "Skeletal Fortification", "Rallied Souls" or "Neither Allegiance"
get out of here before I feed you to my cow! :cow:

something about gear:
Early game level 8+ you should buy a lot of rings from the merchant with the "-%opponents chance to evade" mod, to wear and socket. You'll need a lot of those to get good hit chances. Don't try to raise Dual Wield or a potential Sword Lore to get attack rating bonuses. These skills are only for the attack speed they give you and should only be increased at later levels. Attack rating on items can theoretically help, so can "whet" blacksmith arts. But your main source will be the "-%opponents chance to evade" mod.

Late game gear to go for:
Weapon 1: still the level 10 lightsaber...

Weapon 2: Anything one handed melee with %leech, base game has Kal'dur's Legacy. CM patch adds rare fist weapons and potentially a lot more unique and legendary options. Tom Felde's Thunderous Voice can be created at character level once per character per difficulty via a promo unlock code. Wiki page on unlock items:
https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Unlock_Items
The code itself has not been published there or on this forum as there have been quite some quarrels with the devs about that. But nowadays you can google for it. It's out there, believe me
How about I link some totally unrelated Sacred GoG Forum stuff now, that would be ok right?
https://www.gog.com/forum/sacred_series/unlocks_in_the_game
If that isn't ok, I'm sure @gogoblender will make it disappear soon.

Shield in shield variants: Glacial Defender < Kira's Wall

Armor:

To get the most much mitigation you'd go with
Akarim's Legacy unique belt
Rare mitigation or double mitigation shoulders
Double mitigation Chest or Kanka's chest armor

For a more offensive approach you go with a full Kanka's set for %leech

Jewellery:
Get the "Tooth and Nail" set for more %leech. Don't socket it or it won't count for set bonuses.

Socketing:
Aim for hitchance first via the "-%opponent's chance to evade" and "+%chance opponents cannot evade" mods.
Lategame get bonuses to cast speed to get to the cap, especially in EE and or add Unique Jewellery with +%mitigation, chance to ignore armor. In midgame some amulets with high amounts of +armor lore(like "vox principis") or toughness can help with significantly increasing %mitigation values from linked armor pieces and directly, respectively.
Early/Midgame you can socket Seraphim runes with +% phys mitigation to reach 100% if you want to. If you are having trouble with dot effects a few sources of -%dot damage from enemies would work nicely. It is however a seperate multiplier to %damage mitigation so both at 50% would reduce dots by 75% not 100%.

The Lightsaber should always be socketed with the highest flat damage rings you can get, "Jotun's Maw" is probably the strongest option but generally just bying some phys damage rings every now and then from the merchant should do nicely. As damage converter I would suggest magic, as the weaken effect actually kinda does something useful.

Also make sure to get some regen per hit somewhere. That is also the way you get started on a pure CA using version of your build.

maybe something on gameplay:
Not much to say here, just hit things and watch them die. A nice mechanic is that holding down both right and left click simultaneously will prioritize attacking with the CA but if it isn't available use basic attacks and if no target is there it will move your character. To set this up however the method must start with an attack not a move order. So left or right click an enemy then add the other mouse button while keeping the first one pressed, then keep both pressed and the character should kill that first target and then move around until you cursor hits an enemy again at which point you will automatically go back to attacking. I'm actually not sure if I described that correctly, but it's become such an intuitive way to play the game that I just can't say with certainty what the details are to make it work. Just try and you'll figure it out. It's certainly the most chill way to cruise around with a melee character.

I think that is all the outline had planned here,
might have missed some important details because it got so enormously long.

Let's just say the Force-cow :connie_xmas-moose: has spoken.

And for those that really want to build a tanky shield version
because they are afraid of incoming damage,
remembe this quote by the wise master Mooda :cow: :

"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering."

Just kidding guys, we'll all be fine,
as long as noone gives emergency powers to...
the butcher?!? :butcher:

Sethi22 · September 29

Wow, was there a T-energy leak near your pasture, or what? I thought you'll be off for some time recharging, yet here you are on the same day with a monster guide! Unbelievable. I'm speechless, It's really cool! :cool: The star wars theme and everything... I'll need lots and lots of time to come up with my basic, dumb questions again, I was still chewing the infoplants from the previous guide too, and I don't have a hidden source of T-energy drinks like you. I really need to rest for a while. but I'll be back! I hope others will have more meaningful comments and questions, right now I'm finished. (I was off doing the regional boss quests in Sacred 1 with my gladi, and have just finished a region, requiring some 6500 kills to even spawn the bosses.) I'm done. I can't even finish reading it, I got to half distance maybe, everything is blurry now, I can't keep my eyes open any more, I just wanted to say: you rock, man! :resp:

This will definitely be my next build, I'm convinced. Although I did have a lightsaber SW already, I rushed him to Gold orc cave, and he died in horrible fashion. I was very impatient with that build, and paid the price. I'll dig up his corpse and compare it to this build, and I'm sure I'll find something really idiotic to ask from you! Good night, T-cow sir! :yawn:

Edited September 30 by Sethi22

SLD · September 30

So far that is all the important guide related stuff I could find in this thread linked together in one post with some info on what content to expect where.

Edited October 4 by SLD

Sethi22 · September 30

23 hours ago, SLD said:

This level 10 double socketed lightsaber is all you need and will always outclass any higher level lightsaber you could find. You also only need one of them even for dual wield builds unless the aesthetics are more important to you than the actual strength of your character, of course

Ok, still haven't finished reading, but idiotic question number 1 is ready to go: I don't get this. As you might expect, I had absolutely no idea at all about this low level sword business and I kept on farming newer-and newer lightsabers on every 10 levels or so. This whole approach was completely unknown for me, and this is already a game changer and I haven't even reached the latter parts of the guide. It's fascinating, but why do you only need one sword for a dual wield build then? This I still don't understand. Some funky math thing behind it, I'm sure. But using one sword with a dual wield build? Why?

edit: ok, reached the end, sorry for the early question, I see you use an endgame weapon for slot two with lifeleech and stuff. But why not two low level lightsabers? Isn't that more damage? (I told you it's going to be idiotic!)

So your advice is to keep one low level sword, and in the other slot, I should constantly put the highest level stuff with good mods, that I can use at the moment, whatever that may be, as some sort of stat stick. Not even a lightsaber. (I would definitely like to do it dual wield.)

And question 2 is already here: you don't even need to answer it, just send me to read the wiki, if it's covered there. So it would be nice to know something more about this -%chance to evade mod compared to putting points into dual wield or using the blacksmith arts for attack rating. To be honest, I never paid too much attention to this %chance to evade stuff, I always pumped my skill, like sword lore or whatever, used the whet art, and you know... Did it the noob's way. First of all how do you get this mod early on, with a new char? You say buy lots of it. Is it that common and easy to get? And even if it's that easy to get you say we should only pump dual wield later, why? Isn't the early game much easier and faster if I have points in it? It's sure easier and cheaper than shopping for the jewellery with that mod, no? And what level do you get dual wield for the endgame, and when do you start to add points to it? Ok, that's it.

And of course now that I finished reading it, another thank you is appropriate. Great guide, mate! I've already learned a lot, and what's even more important: You made me play Sacred 2 again, which I haven't done for quite some time now! :agreed:

Edited September 30 by Sethi22

SLD · September 30

28 minutes ago, Sethi22 said:

It's fascinating, but why do you only need one sword for a dual wield build then? This I still don't understand. Some funky math thing behind it, I'm sure. But using one sword with a dual wield build? Why?

Ok, I tried to find the answer in my guide and have to admit, you found a hole again

First, there is the part starting your confusion that you already quoted.
And a hint at an answer is here:

15 hours ago, SLD said:

Demonic Blow can be modded for area damage and swings twice when dual wielding. Remember even though it doesn't look like that you hit twice with your mainhand weapon not once with each weapon.

But you might think that has something to do with Demonic Blow specifically, which it does not.
Another hint was there:

15 hours ago, SLD said:

Be aware that when going dual wield before you can actually permanently use CAs the left click attacks do alternate weapons so for that short period you would need a second lightsaber to fully utilize the build.

But no definitive answer was in that guide.
So I went and looked at General Guides Part 1 thinking maybe I explained it there? Nope.
Eventually I did find the answer. It was in this thread but on page 1 before the Guide Part 1.
Here:

On 9/1/2024 at 11:09 PM, SLD said:

well actually you shouldn't be dualwielding lightsabers. In any later game situation you will be purely using combat arts and combat arts calculate their damage solely on the main hand weapon(even if they look like swinging both). That turns your off-hand weapon into a stat stick and there is a super valuable stat (%leech) that doesn't roll on lightsabers but can be acquired on other one handed weapons.
So dual wield, yes, dual lightsaber, no.

That was the piece of information you where missing. The game does not utilize the second weapon for any combat art, so its damage is irrelevant.

44 minutes ago, Sethi22 said:

So your advice is keep one low level sword, and in the other slot, I should constantly put the highest level stuff I can use at the moment, whatever that may be. Not even a lightsaber. (I would feinitely like to do it dual wield.)

No, the level of the second weapon is irrelevant. Its damage is irrelevant. A socketed damage converter in the second weapon will do nothing. Everything else on it works like a shield or other piece of equipment. It may look like you are swinging both weapons but only left clicks actually alternate between the weapons. Combat arts always hit with the first weapon, so once you exclusively use combat arts the second weapon only gives bonus stats to the first weapon.
With the damage calculation only using the first weapon the second one does no longer need to be a lightsaber and lightsabers are actually really bad weapons. The only thing good about them is that their damage is scaled by willpower of which we have a lot.
Well there is one thing you can roll on a stat stick lightsaber that would allow kind of a middle ground between the dual wield and the shield version of the build. In some versions of the game(not sure if in all) lightsabers can roll all channel %mitigation. So it would be a defensive choice that still retains the offensive benefit of the combat arts using their dual wield animations.

A secondary weapon can give lots of useful stuff including high values of "regen per hit", the two hitchance mods I always talk about, chance to ignore armor, many sockets for all kinds of utility...
But in the endgame the most powerful stat a one handed weapon can have remains %leech. And that mod sadly will never roll on a rare lightsaber and there are no unique or legendary ones with that mod either.

The primary lightsaber, the double socketed level 10 one, might actually not be perfect. But lower level ones can't have two sockets and a triple socketed one would only be good if you could get it without significantly increasing the level. Three socketed lightsabers can provenly exist in some mod versions but I havent seen that happen in the recent past... Also don't know what minimum level you need to roll that. I certainly tried to get a 3 socketed one at certain points. But when your inventory is completely filled with lightsabers and you still don't have it, the motivation to try again shrinks a bit
That is also why I recommend aiming for a 2 socketed one at level 10. It is definitely the sweet spot of effort and reward and works in every game version compatible with the build.

Sethi22 · September 30

Ok, gotcha! I got carried away and excited in the morning, without reading the whole thing through, and then I edited and edited and edited, and now I got a perfect answer for idiotic question one. But as you were answering, idiotic question 2 came to life, so I think you missed that.

And then finally some final values to aim for with the skills would be nice, if you still have some T-energy drinks left, and also which ones you would prefer to pump early game, mid game, end game, something like that. You covered the early part, but then we're left alone, without a helping hand about how to continue, in what order? Concentration for example is left at 1, no? (Of course I don't want three buffs, no astral lord at all!)

And then an extra one, and I promise I won't have any more: If you could give some rough value of the Grim resilience buff to aim for during leveling, that would be helpful for me at least. Should it be kept at max level allowed by our DW focus (I guess that should be kept at char level for at least level 75, to reach mastery, no?) Or is there any real benefit of going over that value? Should it be pumped like crazy, not even caring about the penalty?

(So this is it then, I tried to squeeze every bit of information out of your scientific mind, that's what I'm here for. Of course to get good answers, first you need to ask good questions, and I'm not really good at that, but this was the best I could do. :sigh: )

Edited September 30 by Sethi22

SLD · September 30

7 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

But as you were answering, idiotic question 2 came to life, so I think you missed that.

yes, I did miss that. I always use the "what's new" button, showing "all forum activity". But that one doesn't actually show all activity. It doesn't show edits at all. So if you edit something after I have already started dealing with the original I probably will never notice that.

9 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

So it would be nice to know something more about this -%chance to evade mod compared to putting points into dual wield or using the blacksmith arts for attack rating.

For once I completely agree with you
I have absolutely no clue how the offensive and defensive values interact to lead to a hit chance. I also don't know if the value shown in the "last enemy" section underneath your skills is accurate. I've always used that one as reference to see wether I need more hit chance or not. You can skip through the last 10 enemies there. Bosses tend to need a lot more investment for a reasonable hit chance so don't think you have enough just because you get 300% on a "trap"

9 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

First of all how do you get this mod early on, with a new char?

I am pretty sure I said so at least at one spot among the guides that tell you to get it early. But here we go again:
I think it spawns from somewhere like item lvl 5 or 6 onward but certainly can be found on items level 8 onward. The mod likes to spawn on weapons, bracers, boots, gloves and rings. You'll need to refresh the merchant a couple of times to see this mod, it isn't the most common one. Mod color is blue. The crappy items you can buy without bargaining skill are good enough to roll this mod. The one we are talking about is this one:
https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Opponent's_chance_to_evade
Though the information on that wiki page is totally useless.

Later in the game the other mod that is useful for hitchance becomes available:
https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Chance_that_opponents_cannot_evade_attacks
The wiki article again doesn't tell us much. This chance isn't flat added either...
This mod does not roll on crappy items, can therefore only be bought with bargaining or found as loot.

9 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

And you say I should only pump dual wield later, why? Isn't the early game much easier and faster if I have points in it?

Following my suggestion of using those item mods to get your hitchance up you'll easily hit everything with 100% chance soon. So the attack value is useless. Other than that the Dual wield skill only gives some tiny amount of attack speed per skillpoint. And you don't have skillpoints. So in a scenario without infinite exploit skillpoints the only reason to put a few skilloints into that skill would be to make the downside of an overleveled weapon go away. I don't see any measurable benefit in levelling this early game.

9 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

And what level do you get it for the endgame, and when do you start to add points to it?

I usually do plan on getting infinite skillpoints so I don't have much recent experience without that option. But in a limited skillpoint build you'd never raise dual wield beyond 75, that is for sure. It might however be possible that putting any more than the first point into it could already be wrong. Technically all it does after unlocking the use of a second weapon is give you attack speed(and cast speed for CAs). So you basically free some sockets in the endgame.

7 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

And then finally some final values to aim for with the skills would be nice

I know both my guides are lacking this for the reason I already touched on above. I rarely play with limited skill points so for me the answer is "someday I'll max everything". That usually doesn't happen though as farming those skillpoints still takes a lot of time and I am lazy, so I do have priorities for leveling skills and plan on having to work with limited skill points. That is also why I started in both builds with a "minimalistic" option and what one can add to that.

7 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

and also which ones you would prefer to pump early game, mid game, end game, something like that. You covered the early part, but then we're left alone, without a helping hand about how to continue, in what order?

Both the BFG Sera and the Shadow Warrior list many options in one guide, it is less "one pure plan" more an "inspiration". Giving my order of choice for all these things would take a lot of time and cause even more confusion.
Let us take the SW and look at the example variant I had thrown together in the guide:

On 9/29/2024 at 5:31 PM, SLD said:

DW Focus
Tactics Lore
Dual Wield
Concentration for second buff
Armor Lore
MC Focus
Toughness
Blacksmith
Enhanced Perception
and whatever you want

I already stated the order isn't fixed and I would certainly be unhappy with waiting for EP till lvl 50 but let's assume we stick with this one.
So we have all our starting gear from "General Guides Part 2" and we're ready for our first kobolds to farm runes.
Currently all we're eating is "Grm Resilience" and "Reflective Emanation" and up to level 1 into everything else we want to use at some point. All other runes are combo mastered into Grim Resilience.
While this rune hunting starts/goes on we will get to level 2 and that gives us DW Focus. We really want this skill to get mod points on grim resilience, lower our regen times and up our grim resilience level. So this skill is definitely kept at character level till at least 75 now.
At level 3 we pick tactics lore. Now we can postpone some of the points in DW Focus to get this thing to level 5 at level 5 so we actually can pick Dual Wield at level 5. Otherwise we might have to wait a bit longer for that. I'm not gonna calculate the skillpoints now to find out if that is still a problem if we did the airlines, I know without it this order here would be screwed if we actually kept DW Focus at char level... We would be chosing our level 5 skill later than level 5 but still before level 8 so no matter what we can continue.
Also while we do this there's absolutely no danger to be expected from the common kobolds and champions. We have nice armor pieces and Grim Resilience gives HP regen. The only possible problem might be Gahanka so I guess we just keep away from him
So we are nearing level 8 getting annoyed that our hitchance sucks and have DW Focus on char level and some extra points in Tactics Lore to unlock Dual Wield.
The way this outline is presented I guess I would dump the points that can't go into DW Focus into Tactics Lore.At least if we assume we don't plan on "overlevelling" a skill to early mastery.
Now we hit level 8 take concentration turn on the second buff and hit the merchants for the sorely needed hit chance mods.
Some more kobolds till we hit level 10 skillpoints beyond DW Focus are still either dumped on Tactics Lore or kept for later.
At level 10 we boldly run through the orc region and farm our lightsaber via the quest. This is of course assuming we don't have it already are playing a light campaign char etc. Running past the orcs should be survivable as we have a fully modded grim resilience and at least a partially modded reflective emanation. Don't try killing the orcs just run. To not get stuck due to dumbness mapping the belligerent vault CA can help
Once you have your lightsaber you equip it and potentially a second one as we are still far from perma CA usage. Your damage should now be huge.
Back to the kobolds for level 12 and armor lore. This skill also wants some points that we probably don't have yet.
At this point it depends on how hard the game is for us we could either continue levelling on kobolds or try levelling on orcs or maybe go pick up the mount. For me that is kinda hard to tell without actually trying so lets assume we play it safe and continue with kobolds and no mount either.
So we get a lot of oneshot-able victims, lot's of loot, we are probably tanky enough to just facetank Gahanka if we want to, maybe sidestep the rockthrow if necessary. In our loot among upgrades for our armour pieces we start hoping for regen per hit. Not sure from what level on that can appear.
Once we get to around level 15 the first set items could appear. A bit of luck always helps
So we get to level 18 we pick up MC Focus. By now we could also have raised armor lore to level 5. (Planning for the later pick of toughness and helping with potential set items slowing us down.)
Are we orc ready yet? If we are we beat up those (I'm pretty sure we are) otherwise kobolds can scale up to ~level 40 in silver so if slowly levelling is not a problem, they're always there for you
The outline only plans Toughness Blacksmith and EP from here so lets break up this handholding section and look more towards the goals:
-Blacksmith stays at lvl 1 forever. No actually you have to raise it to level 5 to pick ep. But it stays there.
-EP doesn't make you strong. It eats lots of points. People like me can't live without it but if "starved" for points this is not where you should put them.
-Dual Wield isn't really necessary either so we shove it back and leave it at 1 for a long time.
-Concentration would be really great for regen reduction, but we can live without it. Regen per hit should be a reasonable alternative even if we might need 3 or 4 sources of it. Early game the easiest spot for it would be the second weapon as this mod tends to roll higher values there and once you get one or two mods of regen per hit on your gear you'll mostly use combat arts anyway so the lost second lightsaber for left click attacks doesn't matter that much anymore.

That leaves us with the two Focus skills Armor, Toughness and Tactics Lore.
Till level ~78 I think we can master 4 skills from our raw point amounts (excluding bonus points). So which one gets the shaft? I would probably stop tactics lore at level 20 or 25, max at least Armor lore for the linked mitigation mods on armor pieces and DW Focus for Grim Resilience.
In a build where we have taken the second buff and MC focus we would definitely want to use those properly so we want points in there and we already have points in tactics lore so we probably need a few levels higher than 78 to reach four masteries and then at least 15 more levels if we leave everything at 75 for the fifth... I'm not sure what the right order would be here, I'd probably prioritize MC Focus and toughness first. Eventually these are the first 5 mastered skills you want no matter what.
Beyond that we still have Dual wield, Concentration, EP and the unspecified last skill that we might want to master at some point, but we also might want to reach higher levels in the first 4 mastered skills. Tactics Lore should not go higher than 75 in a limited skillpoint scenario.

What would I want in the end for that build?

DW Focus - more
Tactics Lore - 75
Dual Wield - 75
Concentration - 1 or 75
Armor Lore - more
MC Focus - more
Toughness - more
Blacksmith - 5
Enhanced Perception - inf

We get a bit over 900 points and then some bonus points on top so going conservative with 75 on tactics dual wield concentration and EP we'd have around 600+ points left, 4 skills that want "more" points and a mysterious tenth skill that we still don't know. So I guess we spend like 150 on armour, toughness and the Focus skills each?
My thought here being that we need to reach 250 armor lore to cap out linked mitigation mods like the one on Kanka's chest, we want a lot of toughness for more mitigation as well and the Focus skills are important to reach high CA levels with the buffs and to potentially also allow high attack combat arts in lategame.

Would I do it that way in a limited skillpoint situation? maybe, but I really want more points in ep etc so maybe I could try dumping the second aspect:

Blacksmith 5
EP 200
DW Focus 200
Tactics Lore 75
Dual WIeld 75
Arnor Lore 200
Toughness 200

that would be 955 skipping concentration and MC focus. Not sure if we get enough points for it but it might be close
Sadly this build couldn't use frenzied rampage and would be forced into demonic blow. I remember doing something similar with a D2F Barbarian, where this can be done even more efficiently and without the loss of "frenzy"

As I said these were basically 2 example options but there are obviously far more possibilities around. For example if you don't plan on using frenzied rampage but still go dual buff you might not need to scale reflective emanation to the maximum and could therefore divert some post mastery points to other skills etc.

So, putting hard numbers on these is a bit much, but I guess the information on what to master when and why could have been a bit more detailed...

7 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

and now I got a perfect answer for idiotic question one. But as you were answering, idiotic question 2 came to life

None of these questions were idiotic. All you do is test the guide for holes, things that are missing either because I forgot putting them in there or because I didn't realize the potential for not knowing certain things. I also get lazy after many hours of writing on a guide so thats what happened to the SW skills section just linking the Sera guide
We are basically putting these guides together as a team. Every time you poke me about something, more knowledge oozes out as I try to explain these things in more detail.
You're basically milking the power-cow :connie_xmas-moose:

And there you edited again...

7 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

Should it be pumped like crazy, not even caring about the penalty?

I think the General Guide Part 1 already tells you that buffs are always eaten to full 200 runes. In this case Grim Resilience at first and later add in the other one once you can use that one as well. So you mostly eat Grim' than after mac focus you aim the two at around similar levels so don't go 200 in one and 0 in the other. The directly found buff runes for those two you just eat and at the start you combomaster other runes toward Grim later, once you can use both buffs you aim to even out the eaten runes in both. Always aim to get grim past the penalty and later just shove both to level 200. Sacred 2 has no rune drop penalty form eating runes so you'll be swimming in those.

Sethi22 · September 30

Oh great answers again! But I expected nothing less now, just the usual. (Sorry for the editing stuff, I always forget something important when posting! And also for forgetting some things from the earlier parts of the guide, my memory is...lacking.)

At the moment I have 0 questions, so at least for now, I think we're done here, sir! Unless of course you want to add something more.

When he returns, Professor Jacek will become the best educated (returning) newbie in the history of the game for sure! :chattius:

Edited September 30 by Sethi22

SLD · October 1

12 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

At the moment I have 0 questions, so at least for now, I think we're done here, sir! Unless of course you want to add something more.

I was thinking about trying that non-cheating SP-campaign HC BFG Sera in a CM patch environment to see how close my guide comes to reality. But somehow I doubt I could endure this endeavor for long
I'm also still testing stuff in the addendum so I can't start right away either...
Let's see wether I'll get over this idea or wether it bugs me until I try it

12 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

When he returns, Professor Jacek will become the best educated (returning) newbie in the history of the game for sure!

I sure hope so. It was a lot of work after all. :cow:

Sethi22 · October 1

(Well, that's my only problem too. Which one to do? I already started the lightsaber build, gifted him with tons of items from the mules and he is on his way to become the saviour of Ancaria. But then there's the BFG Sera I can do again in Nio SP, thanks to Gandalf's little wizardry, not to mention my gladi in Sacred 1... Hard to choose, maybe a little bit of everything...

With the Sera it was a walk in the park for the first time, until the Griffin in Niobium. I was totally unprepared, got used to killing everything nice and easy without having to find the spacebar. And when I finally managed to find it, it was too late... But for the second time, everything went smoothly, and even the great obstacle of finding the spacebar was easily passed. And now she stands triumphant! It would be interesting to see, if the great scientist SLD could do his own guide with all bosses hardcore, (without items from previous sessions?) for sure! I eagerly await your results!)

Edited October 1 by Sethi22

SLD · October 4

On 9/30/2024 at 6:05 PM, SLD said:

On 9/30/2024 at 8:21 AM, Sethi22 said:

So it would be nice to know something more about this -%chance to evade mod compared to putting points into dual wield or using the blacksmith arts for attack rating.

For once I completely agree with you
I have absolutely no clue how the offensive and defensive values interact to lead to a hit chance.

Well this just changed. We can always rely on Maneus:

14 hours ago, Maneus said:

The full formula for ChanceToHit is:

ChanceToHit = ROUNDDOWN((AttackValue / (AttackValue + FLOOR(DefenseValue * DefenceFactorDiff * 0.001)) + ChanceThatOpponentsCannotEvadeAttacks * 0.001) * (1 - ChanceToEvade * 0.001) * (1 / (1 - OpponentsChanceToEvade * 0.001)), 2)

From this post: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/18511-how-is-sacred-2-weapon-damage-calculated/page/8/#comment-7146261

There is more info over there in the posts directly before and after the linked one.

So what does this complicated formula tell us?
There are three things happening here.
-First a value is calculated based on comparing attack and defense value which is more or less:
[Attack/(Attack+Defense] and results in a nice sensible percentage.
-Then the ChanceThatOpponentsCannotEvadeAttacks bonus from items etc is added to that.
-And in the third step we multiply all of that with a value that
compares the enemies "+%chance to evade" bonuses and our "-%oponent's chance to evade" bonuses.
This comparison is basically [1 - (%chance to evade)] / [1-(%opponent's chance to evade)]

So as an example the first step comparing attack and defense creates a base percentage like:
Attack=Defense => 50% hitchance
Attack=2*Defense =>66% hitchance
Attack=3*Defense =>75% hitchance
Attack=Defense/2 =>33% hitchance
Attack=Defense/9 => still 10% hitchance

To that we add the "ChanceThatOpponentsCannotEvadeAttacks" that we can get later in the game from higher quality items.
This stacks additively from multiple sources so if we get like 4 rings with +5.5% each we get +22% added to the result of the first step.
For example if we had the last line "Attack=Defense/9 => still 10% hitchance" and added 22% we would almost be at the second to last line's result "Attack=Defense/2 =>33% hitchance".
So in cases where our attack value is really low compared to the enemies defense value this stat can have a huge impact, in this example's case more than a factor of 4 for the mere 22% of this stat.

Now to the third step:
We compare the enemies "+%chance to evade" modifier with our "-%opponent's chance to evade modifier".
First of all multiple sources of these 2 modifiers are not additive, but have diminishing returns, so two rings with +15% each will result in less than 30%. The total amount from your gear is calculated for you shown under the sigma sign in your inventory, that lists all your stats.
Some example values for this "comparison" as listed above:
[1 - (%chance to evade)]/[1-(%opponent's chance to evade)]
generally results in:
(%opponent's chance to evade) = (%chance to evade) => 1
(%opponent's chance to evade) > (%chance to evade) => >1
(%opponent's chance to evade) < (%chance to evade) => <1

So when both mods are equal you get the hitchance from step 2.
If your mod is higher you multiply step 2 by something larger than 1.
If your mod is lower you multiply step 2 by something smaller than 1.

For example if the enemy has 50% evade chance and you have no -%evade mod you get only half of step 2.
if the enemy has 25% evade chance and you have no -%evade mod you get 75% of step 2.
if the enemy has 25% evade chance and you have -20% opponent's chance to evade you get 93.75% of step 2.
if the enemy has 25% evade chance and you have -50% opponent's chance to evade you get 150% of step 2.
And if the enemy has no chance to evade mod but you have -50% opponent's chance to evade you get twice the value from step 2.

Especially the last example is interesting here as many enemies probably don't have the evade chance mod at all or only at low amounts, you can easily multiply your value from Step 2 to crazy levels.
So the lessons to learn are basically, that
-the step 1 attack value can give a lot of base if the enemy doesn't have a lot of defense
-the step 2 mod is more valuable when the enemy has lots of defense
-the step 3 mod acts as a beneficial multiplier that can increase everything from step 1 and 2 if you got more than the enemy has. This also means it's absolutely crucial to have this mod if the enemy has +%evade chance because otherwise you'll always have crappy hitchance.

Some other thing to note would be that if you for whatever reason had 100% or more of the step 2 mod you could only miss enemies that have a higher step 3 mod than you.
Also if you don't have 100% or more hitchance against an enemy all three ways
"+% or +attack value",
"+% chance opponents cannot evade" and
"-% opponent's chance to evade",
will help in increasing this value. Which one does how much however, depends on how much of it you already have and what kind of values(defense, +%evade) the enemy has.
So if you need to hit with your character get something from all three values. Remember however that you always have some attack value anyway and that later when using purely combat arts, those usually have a "hidden" attack value bonus as well(scaling with CA level). But combat arts aren't taken into account on the "last enemy" hit chance information.

@Sethi22,
man that took some time to first understand the results from Maneus and then make them more accessible.
I hope I succeeded in both :cow:

SLD · October 4

On 10/1/2024 at 8:19 AM, SLD said:

I was thinking about trying that non-cheating SP-campaign HC BFG Sera in a CM patch environment to see how close my guide comes to reality.

Ok, game on version CM160 is ready, time to make a Seraphim I guess.
Rules:
General Guide 1: only afk sb farming is relevant and not allowed.
General Guide 2:
Character creation: (Singleplayer. Seraphim, Light Campaign, Forens, Expert's Touch, Hardcore and Silver)
Runes, Gold Starting gear Socketing and Bonus skill points:
I started on silver, opened up starting chest, went to Sloeford opened all the chests etc. and did the airlines quest. I repeated the same on bronze, then returned to silver. If you are smart you'd do it the other way around, man the way to sloeford in silver is challenging. I'm used to such pampered gear I even needed to find the spacebar...
After my return to silver I teleported a few times back and forth between starting island and sloeford and used the merchant to buy some cheap gear with phys resist, 2 relics with poison and an amulet with life regen. At this point I don't have enough gold for a full set of socketed stuff and socketing costs far too much gold to do that. I could "teleport" to the crystal region to get more gold, but I don't think that's gonna make the experience more legit so I won't
I also ate the two runes from the silver start box (archangel's wrath and battle stance) to help with the way to Sloeford and now used the combomaster to create one bfg rune from the bronze runes and 2 lucky rune drops on the way.

In sp chests and quests are saved so none of this can be repeated for farming anyway.

General Guide 3 has nothing that applies.
The BFG sera guide says I should put points in stamina so I will do that.
It also says to pick Tech lore, tech focus, concentration, armor lore and toughness,
potentially also ranged lore EW Focus tactics lore and who knows what in no specified order.
I will absolutely go full coward mode and start pure tech, with the shield as second buff as soon as I get the runes
Combat art mods will be chosen as specified in the guide.
I will not use the "Far Shot" mode as that would be abusing a bug.
I will only play SP campaign games no MP.

All the rules are laid out, let's see if I make it to level 10 :cow:

Edit: Have made it to level 10. My kobolds thinned out at level 9 but restarting the game solves that. Chose concentration->tech lore->tech focus->ranged weapons and put all my skillpoints in the tech skills. Fully modded BFG. Got both BFG and the shield buff leveled a bit and am using that combo since I had the first rune in it. Nothing has gotten my shield down since. Bought one -%evade ring on level 6. Since level 8 I have 100%+ hitchance on champion kobolds. Seems to go nicely for now. Will stick around and poke some more kobolds for more runes I guess. I can still take damage after all so I'm not OP enough yet

Edit2: Kobold slaughter went on till lvl 16 where I could fully mod my warding energy buff as well(went "block" for uber coward mode). Took armour lore on 12. Started moving along the campaign path, took toughness at level 18 Jaftar could be facetanked without taking measurable damage and now finally shot the Gar'Colossus at level 19. 92% hitchance on him. Had 25 runes eaten in both buffs. Did run around and not let him hit me because I was still afraid
So far everything seems fine.

Edit3: Level 23, Orc-region is done, Octagolamus was defeated by my most beloved hardcore strategy - running away
Now I definitely want to level some more in the orc region before moving on. I am really not made for hardcore...
34 runes in both buffs, tech skills capped, armor lore at 5, the rest in toughness(a bit more than 5). Normal Orcs should be oneshotable now. Still only using left click attacks...

Edit4: Level 31, by killing Orcs and some Kobolds. Both buffs eaten to 55. Did "feed the poor" in both bronze and Silver for extra skillpoints and ran the mount quest in Silver though I didn't buy a tiger yet.

Edit5: Did buy a tech tiger for now. Doesn't really matter as I still can't really use combat arts. But the movespeed is huge as I had no other source of movespeed. LVL 36 has been reached, still farming orcs.

Edit6: Finally went Orc cave levelled all the way to 50. Picked up tactics lore and EW Focus. Skills are now at: tech focus 50, tech lore and toughness at 45, armor lore 25, EW Focus 5. Tactics, Ranged and Concentration still at one.
Warding Energy 175 eaten and BFG 125.
Archangel's wrath was a lot worse than I remembered so I moved on to pelting strikes. By now quite usable with regen per hit and so much better dps. Switched to EW Tiger.
Did the Gahanka quest, though I probably should have done it earlier, before I outleveled him. Not much loot this way...
Still crappy geared. One lvl 14 amulet is my only dot defense. Those things are far rarer than I thought and without bargaining they can't be bought either...
Well I guess it's time to move further along the campaign now.

Edit7: lvl 51, swamp has been reached. The bosses were a bit scary but only the dragon actually managed to hit me... the carnach died before he could reach me

Edited Friday at 05:26 AM by SLD

Maneus · October 4

6 hours ago, SLD said:

I hope I succeeded in both

That summary is spot on. :thumbsup:

I know I said that it is the "full" formula, but I didn't have enough time yesterday to test the other parameters from balance.txt. And I forgot to replace that ROUNDDOWN operation with an instruction to go to the second floor.

I have scheduled a meeting for later today with my new acquaintance - Mr. Gar'Colossus. I'll post the results in the other thread.

Edited October 4 by Maneus

Sethi22 · October 4

8 hours ago, SLD said:

So what does this complicated formula tell us?

You were very kind to think about my little question and go through all this formula business! And also very generous of you to write "tell us" instead of "tell me", because for me personally, that formula doesn't tell any of the things that follow. It tells me only one thing: That I should run and hide somewhere safe!!! :lol: So there are guys who when they write, only rarely use normal words, because most of the things they want to tell are better expressed by numbers and formulas. There are the ones like me, who never use numbers and seeing these formulas makes them retreat hastily! :HbKbJh0: And then there are guys somewhere in the middle, who have some sort of connection to both types, and can translate the numbers into words. Thanks for doing that! So you did make it more accessible, and I understood most of it, I think.

I've come to the conclusion, that I should go full Kanka set with this build even before reading this, but since it has all of these mods makes me feel even better about my choice. It has chance that opponents cannot evade attacks on the gloves, opponent's chance to evade on the arms, and flat attack value too on the shoulders. Not to mention the beautiful set bonuses... https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Kanka's_Relics

And because I don't yet have all the pieces of that set, just a few, I will definitely need high Enhanced Perception. Therefore I must take Forge lore or Riding as well sadly. Originally I was thinking about Speed lore, although you told it was crap, I was still thinking about it. But I'm out of skills this way, so that's the one that will have to be dropped. (I guess that flat value of attack and defense rating it gives isn't worth all the points, right? It's easy to socket flat attack and defense stuff if needed.) So Kanka it will be, and I'll see how much mitigation I can pump into the build this way. But I need that final set bonus leech as well, because looking through all my mules I only found 1 single piece of weapon with some small amount of leech% on it. Another reason to do it the Enhanced perception way...

(You of course failed completely in your attempt to convince me about a build without Constitution. Nice try, but there's really nothing you can say or count that will make me drop that, so don't even try! (And yes I still remember the leech part from the beginning of the guide, where having more life resulted in getting bigger damage from those leech things, but still... I'm taking it. Let's move on!))

This is the plan then, but I also wanted to tell a few things about my journey with this build so far, as I really learned a lot from this guide, even apart from the level 10 lightsaber thing. (How did you know that? You tested and tested and finally came to the conclusion, or is this a well known fact that everybody apart from me already knew? :blush2: ) It's working like a charm, beautiful!!!

So the build is great, and what really makes the difference compared to my previous sw builds is the lack of Scything Sweep, and modifying Demonic blow for area damage. That was probably the best advice other than the level 10 sword (and holding down both buttons! :cool: Oh, I'm so oldschool, I never even tried this, it rules!) I always modded Demonic blow the other way, as I thought that would be my single target skill, and the Sweep will be used for Area of Effect. But it's so much better to mod it like this, it's unbelievable! Everything is way smoother, faster, no rearing up of the mount, no knockback crap! It's superior to the Sweep in every way. (Although first I was really confused when you wrote that modding Demonic blow for open wounds is useless (You didn't give any explanation - at least there - on why you think it's useless, so this is turning into one of those questions again! What's wrong with open wounds? :dntknw: ) I certainly didn't regret listening to your advice in this case!

Ok, and since you were so kind and answered all my questions so far, I might as well ask the next few "final" ones I actually remember now: about runes read in the attack combat arts. So I kept them at 1 runes read until now, but I have tons of jewellery with reg per hit, and I also found a level 10 "Disturbance in the force" lightsaber at one of my mules, that has reg per hit on it's own, so at level 20 I was already at the "combat art only" phase.

https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Unique_Lightsabers#Disturbance_in_the_Force

So first what do you think about using this all the way? Should I try farming for something better? At level 10 it gives 0.5 reg per hit and +1 to defensive skills Would you look for something else on a level 10 sword? The values are so small on a level 10 weapon, that it really doesn't make much sense farming for something else, as it will become completely irrelevant after a while, no?

And how long should I leave the attack combat arts at 1 runes read? As long as I can spam them, it's a good idea to start reading runes in them sooner, rather than later, yes? Or will our buffs burden us so much later on, that it's better to remain at 1 for longer? And how far did you take them for the endgame roughly?

Ok, this is it. It was you who started it again! :wink:

Edited October 4 by Sethi22

SLD · October 4

1 hour ago, Maneus said:

That summary is spot on.

Wow, my post made it through peer-review

1 hour ago, Maneus said:

I know I said that it is the "full" formula, but I didn't have enough time yesterday to test the other parameters from balance.txt. And I forgot to replace that ROUNDDOWN operation with an instruction to go to the second floor.

Neither would really matter here I guess. The balance.txt values remain constant while normally playing the game and noone cares about rounding as long as the enemie ends up on the floor. We also don't care which floor they end up on.
That is all stuff for your thread, where we want the details "for science"

1 hour ago, Maneus said:

I have scheduled a meeting for later today with my new acquaintance - Mr. Gar'Colossus. I'll post the results in the other thread.

Thanks for coming by and have fun with Mr. Gar'Colossus. :cow:

SLD · October 4

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

I've come to the conclusion, that I should go full Kanka set with this build even before reading this, but since it has all of these mods makes me feel even better about my choice. It has chance that opponents cannot evade attacks on the gloves, opponent's chance to evade on the arms, and flat attack value too on the shoulders. Not to mention the beautiful set bonuses...

If you go full Kanka only the full set bonus should matter here. Those few hitchance mods don't matter much, as all of them can be socketed and probably will have to be socketed anyway.

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

And because I don't yet have all the pieces of that set, just a few, I will definitely need high Enhanced Perception. Therefore I must take Forge lore or Riding as well sadly.

If you don't have a smith take forge...

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

Originally I was thinking about Speed lore, although you told it was crap, I was still thinking about it. But I'm out of skills this way, so that's the one that will have to be dropped. (I guess that flat value of attack and defense rating it gives isn't worth all the points, right? It's easy to socket flat attack and defense stuff if needed.)

It's actually a percentage not a flat value but it's added with all other attack and defense percent bonuses you might have. The point here is that attack and defense values are not that interesting in Sacred 2. You can solve hit and evade chances far easier with other mods.

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

But I need that final set bonus leech as well, because looking through all my mules I only found 1 single piece of weapon with some small amount of leech% on it. Another reason to do it the Enhanced perception way...

Well "Tom-felde's" isn't great but it can be summon once per difficulty as I said among the unlock item stuff somewhere. A bargaining character could also easily buy rare %leech fist weapons, should you have such a character somewhere.

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

(You of course failed completely in your attempt to convince me about a build without Constitution. Nice try, but there's really nothing you can say or count that will make me drop that, so don't even try! (And yes I still remember the leech part from the beginning of the guide, where having more life resulted in getting bigger damage from those leech things, but still... I'm taking it. Let's move on!))

NOO! Why? You already have a buff that gives more life and life regen than constitution ever will

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

This is the plan then, but I also wanted to tell a few things about my journey with this build so far, as I really learned a lot from this guide, even apart from the level 10 lightsaber thing. (How did you know that? You tested and tested and finally came to the conclusion, or is this a well known fact that everybody apart from me already knew?) It's working like a charm, beautiful!!!

What do you mean? That level 10 lightsabers can have two sockets and lower level ones can't? That one I tested myself, grinded the quest with a character than leveled one level and grinded again. Started at level 1...
Or do you mean the attribute bonus workings? That one only very few people knew about until recently. when it was properly documented by Maneus over in his thread with all the frightening numbers

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

(Although first I was really confused when you wrote that modding Demonic blow for open wounds is useless (You didn't give any explanation - at least there - on why you think it's useless, so this is turning into one of those questions again! What's wrong with open wounds?)

Open wounds is a dot effect that when triggered does some damage based on the hit that triggered it. It has a duration and only one instance can be on the enemy at the same time. So if the dot is "ok" compared to one hit, it would still be crap compared to the number of hits you can get in while that first open wound instance is still running.
But it gets even worse... While so far Maneus only tested the poison and fire dots that I expect to work similar though, the poison and burning effects get "replaced" each time you trigger a new instance. And this replacing can happen before the dot does its first damage tick. That means with a high enough hitrate you will cause new open wounds before the first ones did anything at all... that's why it's absolute crap.

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

So first what do you think about using this all the way? Should I try farming for something better? At level 10 it gives 0.5 reg per hit and +1 to defensive skills Would you look for something else on a level 10 sword? The values are so small on a level 10 weapon, that it really doesn't make much sense farming for something else, as it will become completely irrelevant after a while, no?

If that level 10 sword has 2 sockets it should be great all the way to lvl 200 as mainhand weapon. The rare from the quest I suggested would be worse for sure. If it doesn't have 2 sockets it might be nice for the start but should be replaced with a 2 socketed level 10 lightsaber.

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

And how long should I leave the attack skills at 1 runes read? As long as I can spam the combat arts, it's a good idea to start reading runes in it sooner, rather than later, yes? And how far did you take them for the endgame roughly?

I've had characters of similar types keep the CAs at level 1, I also had characters eating them to the "maximum without penalty". Technically you can at some point eat more. My main goal is to keep the regen low enough that I don't need many sources of "regen per hit" and that if something goes wrong like the enemy blocking/reflecting both hits from demonic blow I wouldn't want to have to wait long for the next one to be ready. So the goal would be basically that the kanka gloves give enough regen per hit that you don't need more than that in the end. At least that's what I would aim for.

1 hour ago, Sethi22 said:

Ok, this is it. It was you who started it again!

Well, I started more than that...
I'll show you how great characters without constitution are :cow:

Edited October 4 by SLD

Sethi22 · October 4

49 minutes ago, SLD said:

NOO! Why? You already have a buff that gives more life and life regen than constitution ever will

I'll show you how great characters without constitution are

Yes, but the two give even more than only one of them. :tongue: I'm too old and stubborn to change this now. Sorry!

55 minutes ago, SLD said:

Or do you mean the attribute bonus workings? That one only very few people knew about until recently. when it was properly documented by Maneus over in his thread with all the frightening numbers

Yes I was thinking about the attribute bonus. Ok then, it's good to know I wasn't the dumbest of all for not knowing this at least...

58 minutes ago, SLD said:

And this replacing can happen before the dot does its first damage tick. That means with a high enough hitrate you will cause new open wounds before the first ones did anything at all... that's why it's absolute crap.

Well, that really sucks. I'm even happier I went the other way then!

About speed lore, I don't know why I thought it was a flat value, the wiki states quite clearly it's a percentage.

And yes my beautiful level 10 Disturbance in the force has two sockets. :wub:

Case closed for now (?), unless Maneus finds something new that needs translating into words, or until you make your futile attempt to change my view on Constitution again...

SLD · October 4

3 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

Yes, but the two give even more than only one of them.

And putting the points into toughness or armor lore would also give more than putting them in constitution. At least it would give something that will still be useful in the endgame, where constitution will do exactly nothing. You could also put those points in tactics lore which increases Grim Resilience's hp and regen, so it basically does was constitution does and damage on top. Or put them into the focus for a higher Grim Resilience that would also result in more Hp and regen but also phys mitigation and damage through willpower...
So many good options and you take another skill to waste both a skill slot and a bunch of skillpoints

3 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

I'm too old and stubborn to change this now. Sorry!

3 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

dumbest of all

:4rofl:

3 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

or until you make your futile attempt to change my view on Constitution again...

How about you take it last, so you can see how little you need it?

Sethi22 · October 5

Well I'm taking armor lore to mastery first, at level 75 that's for sure, as it unlocks things like mitigation. And the two focuses I think. So I can take it last, if that makes you happy, I know I won't need it in silver, but having any extra life in Nio is something I'm not going to give up. And the in combat reg too. You might think that it's weak, and that leeching gives much more than that tiny reg in combat, but hitting my targets for me is not guaranteed at all, sometimes I fight with the thin air around me, misclicks are not "what if" with me, they constantly happen. And for those times some in combat reg I need. I know good players can do it without it, but I'm not that. I need every bit of help I can get to survive!

And I'm taking grim resilience to max anyway, and toughness of course is high on my list as well. Leaving two skills at 1 and 5 points (concentration and riding or smithing) leaves a nice room to improve the other skills, so I think I'll have the points to spare. I listened to all of your valuable advices so far, apart from this. But to show you how much I appreciate your support, I promise I will stop with constitution on 75 points invested, no more. Let the +all skills do the rest! That's the most I can do for you!

Edited 22 hours ago by Sethi22

SLD · October 5

8 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

I know I won't need it in silver, but having any extra life in Nio is something I'm not going to give up. And the in combat reg too. You might think that it's weak, and that leeching gives much more than that tiny reg in combat, but hitting my targets for me is not guaranteed at all, sometimes I fight with the thin air around me, misclicks are not "what if" with me, they constantly happen. And for those times some in combat reg I need. I know good players can do it without it, but I'm not that. I need every bit of help I can get to survive!

It's not about the recovery from leech. By the time you're in niobium you should be able to watch a horde of angry orcs dull their axes on you... You have enough regen in combat without constitution or leech. The leech is most powerful against bosses anyway.

8 hours ago, Sethi22 said:

I promise I will stop with constitution on 75 points invested, no more. Let the +all skills do the rest! That's the most I can do for you!

Maybe on some future character you'll "risk" playing without it. There is still hope

As long as I'm not getting bored (or killed?) I'll keep updating my progress above on my totally regen and constitution free hardcore seraphim. Maybe it'll inspire you

SLD · October 7

On 10/4/2024 at 5:11 PM, SLD said:

All the rules are laid out, let's see if I make it to level 10

Seven edits of that post have already shown that I made it far past lvl 10. I thought it's time for a new post.

Silver is done. Finished with Lvl 54.
I took, in order, (Final number of hard points in, including the first)
-Concentration (1)
-Tech Lore (45)
-Tech Focus (54)
-Ranged weapons (1)
-Armor Lore (41)
-Toughness (45)
-Tactcs Lore (1)
-EW Focus (5)
-Not yet chosen

All attribute points went into stamina, ate Warding Energy to 175 and BFG to 125.
Upgraded BFG as specified by the guide, warding energy with double reflect and "block" at the end, pelting strikes with extra damage(assuming double hit actually doesn't work) and regen reduction.

All in all it took around 26 hours of time in game. Not fast, but at least it was safe.

I guess it's time to go for gold now :cow:

Already started with the airlines. I guess I'm gonna eat some kobolds next...

Edit: LVL 58 now, killed some kobolds, loot wasn't great but I got a few nice set pieces. Moved on through the main quest line all the way to the Orc region, but not yet the Octagolamus. Did "feed the poor" and socketed my gear with phys mitigation runes. Not fully there yet, but I hope it's enough for farming the orc cave.

Edit2: LVL 63 now, orc cave is no problem, orcs basically don't do damage anymore so it's kinda even easier than in silver.
Sadly levelling and looting are kinda slow, but there is no better place. So now I have an endless grind ahead of me. Not sure if I can manage that

Edit3: With toughness I have reached more than 80% phys mitigation now, still not quite there yet... I upgraded Divine protection (duration, cooldown, spellblock) and ate 37 runes there, in case I want to use that at some point... finished bfg and warding energy to 200 and ate 20 in battle stance though I won't be able to use that one for a long time...

I also found one of the most dangerous mistakes one can make in hardcore sp campaign... Other than in reasonable game modes (like multiplayer), singleplayer games start the character where you left, instead of in some safe space like a town or the starting island. So when you log out outside the orc cave, you may have been safe there but when you log back in newly respawned orcs will be all around you and your buffs are turned off, so bfg sera spawns with no weapon and no energy shield. The fastest way to get out of that situation is to immediately hit F8 which in Singleplayer will teleport you to your monolith. Therefore another important thing is to always pick up a safe monolith not one in the middle of nowhere surrounded by enemies.
I hate this hardcore singleplayer challenge

Edit4: LVL 66 now. Still orcing. battle stance and divine protection raised to 75. Phys mitigation has reached 87.1%.

Edit5: LVL 70 now. Still orcing. Battle stance and divine protection raised to 125. Finally got 2 socketed gloves and a shoulder piece with slightly higher mitigation, getting my phys mitigation up to 92.9%.

Edited October 10 by SLD

gogoblender · October 7

On 10/5/2024 at 11:14 AM, SLD said:

As long as I'm not getting bored (or killed?) I'll keep updating my progress above on my totally regen and constitution free hardcore seraphim. Maybe it'll inspire you

Love this build theme, pretty fresh

Keep going !!

:viking:

gogo

Sethi22 · October 9

On 10/7/2024 at 11:58 PM, SLD said:

Phys mitigation has reached 87.1%.

Details, please! How? List the amount from items, (separately if possible) how much from toughness, and so on. I want to see it all to believe it! Is this without divine protection?

If I ever get close to values like this, I'll consider your constitutionless approach for my SW, but first I need to do it myself, at least once!

Edited October 9 by Sethi22

An easy character for a returning Sacred 2 player?

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