SLD 524 Posted October 9, 2024 10 hours ago, ric7202 said: I think this is what a dual wield magic staff build should have been like from the start. No, magic staves should have never gotten projectiles at all. This feature was always bugged, the staff weapons where designed as melee, only had melee animations and the ranged feature was never properly tested. They shoved it into the expansion anyway, which led to horrendous exploits, which the cm patch "fixed" by making staves always fire projectiles, but they still don't have animations for ranged usage and don't properly work with dual wield at all.
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 9, 2024 29 minutes ago, SLD said: This feature was always bugged, ooooh, soooo...can this exciting buggy get the ranged SW to Niobium? for some reason I feel like its gonna peter out gogo
SLD 524 Posted October 9, 2024 16 minutes ago, gogoblender said: ooooh, soooo...can this exciting buggy get the ranged SW to Niobium? I was talking about Magic Staves. This build is using the two handed energy weapons. There is a huge difference. 18 minutes ago, gogoblender said: for some reason I feel like its gonna peter out you also believe for some reason that sacred 2 is slower than sacred 1...
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 9, 2024 20 minutes ago, SLD said: you also believe for some reason that sacred 2 is slower than sacred 1... Oh yah almost nothing in Sacred 2 is as fast as in underworld...underworld was like an arcade action game. Just compare the fireballs from underworld to sacred 2's slow meandering almost creeping deaths (dungeons and dragons reference there for ye all anyone who follows ) that they called fireballs I know which one I'm gonna play I tried and tried (and tried and tried) soooo many ways to get FB to be an end all in Sacred 2 and it just never got fast enough or worth it when compared to meteors barreling in and taking out all the bosses in a fraction of the time. ( think i even made a pyro build somewhere here and uploaded it but even that made me feel meh) and look at the ice shards even... underworlds ice shards are magnificent and sooo fast and satisfying... we never got that in sacred 2 with the HE..i only got her to niboium cuz someone else said magic got nerfed so much after the update and so we just made that build...but she was never as satisfying or as fast as in anything i created in underworld Sacred 2 feels...chuggee... thats why Ric Ranger,s build fascinates me ..its so fast gogo
SLD 524 Posted October 10, 2024 4 hours ago, gogoblender said: Oh yah almost nothing in Sacred 2 is as fast as in underworld...underworld was like an arcade action game. Just compare the fireballs from underworld 4 hours ago, gogoblender said: to sacred 2's slow meandering almost creeping deaths And then compare Sacred Underworld's thornbush with Sacred 2's fireball. Suddenly Sacred 2 is much faster. So what was the mistake? Comparing the projectile speed of fireballs. Fireball is bad in both games but the Underworld fireball projectile gets faster with higher level, while the Sacred 2 one doesn't even fly in a straight line. On the other hand, the Underworld fireball only hits one target, while the Sacred 2 fireball can be modded for area damage. 4 hours ago, gogoblender said: I know which one I'm gonna play I would play with neither fireball because they are both crap. So now that we know comparing the projectile speed of two handpicked skills won't tell us much about the actual pace of the games, let us try another approach. How about we try to get the fastest killspeed in either game? Let's start with Sacred Underworld: Your suggested fireball gets problems with the damage cap. There is a thread on this forum where this cap was already thouroughly discussed, so I won't go into detail here, but even with the "secret damage" set on top this fireball will never do more than 500k damage per shot. If we want to improve on this we could for example take a bow woodelf, equip the ettol'Rahc-notwen bow set for armor reduction and use multi-hit. The Multi-hit CA with a bow woodelf would perform about as fast as the fireball from the video if not faster. Its damage would not be capped and can easiley surpass the mentioned 500k from the fireball. But on top of that it would shoot 5 arrows at once that can either all hit the same target if needed or, given enough targets, hit up to 5 targets per use of the combat art. So as a conclusion that bow woodelf build would already kill around five times as fast as the fireball mage, if there is enough to kill. Can we go faster? There is the option of multi-hitting with a piercing crossbow, that can hit more enemies per combat art, but would make the combat art significantly slower. That would be better with lots of enemies but absolutely worse against single targets. There are a few skill options to get real area damage like poison mist but the single ca execution is slower in return, so again the speed win would be situational at best. There would be the option to go fadalmar + icon set. If the enemies have no health at all, that would kill them super quick by running past them. In an overspawned cave such a passive offense can also help a lot. But in a reasonable scenario with no bug/glitch exploits, this build doesn't really do that much damage. Its benefits lie more in the fact that you don't need to scale it via gear and can therefore equip the stuff you want like xp bonus and split. Lastly there would of course be the kill enemy on sight item mod. That mod would be the utmost winner riding a horse through the map at maximum speed killing everything around you, but it supposedly can only kill enemies up to a maximum level of 100. I would consider this again as highly situational as the game goes all the way to character level 216... So for Sacred Underworld I would suggest the Bow woodelf with Multi-Hit the fastest, most versatile option here. The arrow projectiles may be slightly slower than fireballs at the end but the difference should be minimal and you get five of them at once. If you have an Idea for something that could be measurably faster in any way please let me know, for now I'd consider this the "contestant" from the Sacred Underworld side. Now let's look at Sacred 2: This is a lot more complicated as we have quite a few mods here. As all the Sacred 2 mods including the CM patch, PFP, EE; D2F and the addendum make the player characters faster and more powerful, the most fair approach would be to discard them all. Looking at only the Sacred 2 base game with Ice and Blood addon. I will exclude the original sacred 2 voodoo dryad bs as the viperish disease spreading further than the game's "active region", far further than you can see, would beat everything and was kinda "fixed" by the original devs already. The next thing to exclude would be the magic staff exploit allowing melee combat arts with staves do melee attacks with infinite range. Again the dryad clearing a multi screen sized 360 degree area with Darting Assault or the Inquisitor clearing an enormous offscreen sized cone with ruthless mutilation is just bug abuse, not a good representation of the game. There are many build options that basically run from enemy to enemy and slam them with a "Hard-HIt"-type combat art. The SW and HE can mod their CAs for area damage so they would be the best in this category. There are "attack"-type combat arts like frenzied rampage, their best use in the unmodded game is with dual wield. They aren't that fast in animation speed but they can acquire new targets that can be quite far away, even though the character is melee, sparing them the movement time. The SW can include both the area hard hit and the attack type CA in one build chosing which to use by situation and has also one of the fastest special mounts in the game, therefore the highest possible movement speed. I would consider this the fastest possible Melee build in the game. Now the question would be if there are non-melee builds that are faster. If you hoard a bunch of enemies you could kill an immense area full of enemies with a single cast of Blazing Tempest or Clustering Maelstrom etc. The Tempest also works well with fewer enemies so I'd consider that the better as in more versatile approach. But though the HE has some good spell options with Meteor or Glacial Thorns, she'd never get close to the boss killing speed of a %leech based melee/ranged build. So we have massive area killing potential with a downside on single target here. A dual wielding SW or Seraphim can get around 8% leech per hit and do some normal damage on top, so a bosskill in 12 hits or less is to be expected. Don't forget they can use double hits with their basic left click attack (from the weapon mastery) or CA's like frenzied rampage modded twice for double hit chance to get more hits in quickly. Now I covered what spellcasters do and that melee always leads back to a shadow warrior, let's see what ranged can get us. There is the Blowgun Dryad. Instant hit "projectiles" are great. The dryad has Darting assault do instantaneously hit around 5? enemies at a reasonable range, though the range is smaller with a blowgun compared to with a bow. She also has Ravaged Impact moddable for either area damage or a double shot. That btw has a shorter animation than a SW with spectral hand which would be the other ranged instant hit attack in the game. So in cases where there are many enemies the blowgun dryad would be faster than a melee SW because she doesn't have to run up to them, can kill multiple per darting assault and the animation for that is quite short. For movement the dryad's mount is slow so that is certainly a loss. For single target it gets complicated. Darting assault with a throwing star throws 5 stars but evenly spaced in a 360 degree radius. If you can somehow get stuck inside the boss' hitbox it might be possible to hit with all of them. As the Dryad can get to at least 8% leech again that should lead to 3 shots max per boss and definitely be the fastest way to kill a boss. If getting perfectly inside the boss (via movement skill etc) is not possible or I'm wrong about the expected interaction however, the dryad would just use the double hitting Ravaged Impact(that actually hits 3 times) in quick succession, again killing the boss in record speed. The other ranged weapon types like one and two handed energy weapons or bows generally have no advantages and without the mods have no better combat arts to use them with than the dryad's therefore no other ranged attack builds are really of any interest in the base game. There is this one outlier with the BFG Sera. She can do a lot of damage with her weapon, but she has no decent CAs to use in combination with that so she looses in clear speed and the bfg damage against bosses is outclassed or at least matched by %leech. With everything I have presented that could represent Sacred 2 in our speed contest (SW, Dryad,HE?) the most versatile in all speed categories would be the Dryad, though in reality with the game rarely presenting large enemy groups the SW is not much slower if at all. As the comparison with the chosen Champion for Sacred Underworld would be much easier with the Dryad, I chose the Dryad as representative for Sacred 2 in this contest. So here we have our champions Woodelf vs Dryad, Bow vs Blowgun/Throwing Star. And suddenly the games look surprisingly similar. Against groups both characters use a combat art that can hit 5 enemies at once. The execution speed is similar though I think The Dryad is faster at 150 attack speed than the Woodelf at 220, the respective maxima. Ultimately the blowgun not capable of missing with her inastant hit projectiles wins in speed and though the woodelf can shoot farther with her bow that can if wanted be mirrored by the dryad with a bow as well. That comparison would also be won by the dryad however as she can pierce with a bow allowing for even more hits. Against single targets the woodelf stcks with her combat art moves in close and slams all five shots into the same target, while the dryad switches to a throwing star for more %leech and shreds the boss with Ravaged impact only hitting 3 times per shot, but with significantly higher CA execution speed this time around. How fast the Bosses actually die is not quite fair to compare as in sacred underworld there are no %leech mods yet in return bosses there can be oneshot with some builds scaling with wounds increase damage dealt etc... Let's just say there is bs on both sides So we have determined that generally the builds look the same, what about the games? In Sacred 1 you'd have to click once for every execution of the woodelf's multi-hit, while the dryad in Sacred 2 can just hold her mouse buttons down for repeated CAs. That big quality of life feature clearly favors Sacred 2. The auto pickup in an area and also in MP games is another quality of life and speed win for Sacred 2. So is the option that everyone can sell stuff "to themselves" instead of only the dwarf in S1 and the option to reach the chest from everywhere with the Sacred 2 collectors edition chest imp that was granted to everyone with the Ice and blood expansion. The shared stash doesn't directly influence a single playthrough but it certainly improves muling between characters. So we see a lot of QoL features making the pace of the game faster in Sacred 2. What about movement? For our two contestant characters at maxed out runspeed I would actually say that the woodelf is faster than the dryad, though it is hard to tell as the gameworlds are so different. But if you compare the characters speed to it's size the woodelf wins by a long shot, however I think the space between enemies would also be significantly larger in Sacred 1. Remember as comparison you'd have to zoom out in Sacred 2, further than the normal game allows to "shrink" your character to the same size... Maybe I'm wrong here, sight is no longer one of my good abilities and I write all this from memory. How about mob density? Are there significantly more enemies in one of the games than the other? Well if I compare like running from one skeleton group to another in S1's desert to the same around thylysium in Sacred 2 I'd say sacred 2 has more enemies per time. If I compare one Orc cave with the other I'd say Sacred 2 has far longer load times than S1 If I compare the goblin lawn with kobolds I think the kobolds would win because they more often appear in groups, however their shamans can't summon extra enemies... If your running valley in S1 however I'd say that can have quite a lot of "groups", not sure what to compare it with in Sacred 2. But it's not like Sacred 2 doesn't have dense areas like the southern dryad island or the southeast corner of the swamp... I would say enemy density doesn't differ much and if I had to pick a winner there I'd go with Sacred 2 unless of course you count overspawning caves in Sacred 1. Are there any other metrics to compare? How fast you level up or how long the campaign takes is more a question of how much content do you get than how fast paced the game is. So I'd conclude: The build comparison is relatively even with Sacred 2 a little bit ahead. The QoL comparison, that especially reduces time away from combat, is a clear win for Sacred 2. The movespeed comparison is a win for Sacred Underworld. And the available enemies to kill aka as mob density is relatively even again if not a win for Sacred 2. That is why I'd never call Sacred 2 "slow" compared to Sacred Underworld. To me especially the QoL features make Sacred 2 feel a lot faster. I Think of picking up all the loot one by one in Sacred Underworld's multiplayer... That is soo slow. And I have originally banned all Sacred 2 mods in this comparison. The thread that I now have successfully derailed is a build guide for EE. EE triples the cap for movement, attack and cast speed in this game. It takes time and effort to reach that new cap, but it's worth it. At least for the attack/cast speed. The movespeed is sadly potentially bugged. Imagine shooting 3 times as fast than in Sacred Underworld. There is no contest anymore. And if you're wondering what "speed" in EE looks like that SW video I'd guess has less than half the cap. Maybe Ric could tell us the exact amount he had when recording that video to give a more accurate picture, I think it's not shown in the video. Was there something that I missed in my comparison, that would change the outcome significantly Gogo? I'd love to hear your thoughts on this one. 1
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 10, 2024 I tried to put up some videos last night, but had some trouble with connection on the Dark Matters pages. I'll try again today. Last night I also got to the final bosses and managed to take all 8 down faster than with any other toon I've played before. Sure, there were moments when I had to chug down a couple of pots, but then again my setup was not really optimized for bosskilling. I was lvl 42 and the Nameless were 41 I think. To avoid long execution times I was on my mount and it worked really great against them. I have great hope för this build. In the previous video I had very few speed add-ons. When I look at the info on my toon (with the armor and weapon used in the video) it lists my speed as 116% and with Rousing Command it goes up to 132%. So, it's not the fastest toon, when it comes to running. Attack speed with that weapon is 123% and CA execution speed is 117%. I didn't see any speed numbers for the mount, but it sure is faster than running and the time it takes to fire all the projectiles against 1 target is faster while mounted. I know that not all CA's work well with mounts, but this one does exceptionally well against single targets. When I play Seraphim I never use the Tiger mount as she is faster using her Dashing Alacrity and also the Pelting Strikes feels weird on the mount. Edit 1: Here is the bossfight: 1
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 12 hours ago, SLD said: I would play with neither fireball because they are both crap. I liked your comparison of the two fireballs . I did feel like there was more artistic *bent* in the silly way the fireballs would spin and take more circuitous paths ...but that while they would take that one step forward for artistry, it was two steps backwards for emotional connection ... FB was a fail for me for Sacred 2 and its too bad because as a group of us, Schot was able to create tremendous Hutzpah with a group of us riding across the desert on our horses at once performing his FB tests and firewalling everything in our path. That execution felt emotionally wild and satisfying, Perfect gaming. And we tried repeatedly with Sacred 2 but because of the way the these CA's were reinterpreted , we could not find a way back to that feeling . Ahhh, the Time Traveler's paradox eh? What if ... And this the way I felt for most of the iterations of old CA's vs new CA's... they felt like they had more resources at their disposal but that most of it went up in smoke I loved reading Your Sacred Speed Spread Sheet, I wont ask how much time you slaved at it. it has varied and delightful vectors of thoughtful exploration, coded up nice and tidy for a variety of CA's , with good comparative stats. But the tuffest part of pulling off numbers is its connection to the player. I never felt that connection was as effective in Sacred 2 as it was in Underworld.. and this is why Ric's build is so exciting ..its the first build Ive seen in a loooong while that has That marvelous, ranged kinetic energy feel of distances being closed at no cost The Omnipotent feeling of very where all at once , or in a delightfully quick staccato death sequence, a tapestry of death woven all o'er the screen AI (not apple intelligence) infused targeting and deliriously satisfying one hit kills (for the most part right now) SLD you have generously supplied us with brave new paths to follow and explore, thank you for your dedicated, impassioned sleuthing Another topic somewhere would allow us to entertain these quantum universes of possibilities as well, and so for now I'd like to bring up Rics build here which could bring me back to online gaming ..if a SW ranged build can truly scale. @ric7202 I showed Schot your build last night and he was just as delighted as I was when I saw how your set up works.. first thing he noticed however is that all the targets were quite weak (indicated by their circles) and that while he adored its seeming high kill speed, Bronze and silver builds rarely look like more mature builds. Were looking forward to your remarkable future Ranger Sir, show us whatcha got! For Ancariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa gogo
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 42 minutes ago, ric7202 said: I tried to put up some videos last night, but had some trouble with connection on the Dark Matters pages. I'll try again today. Last night I also got to the final bosses and managed to take all 8 down faster than with any other toon I've played before. Sure, there were moments when I had to chug down a couple of pots, but then again my setup was not really optimized for bosskilling. I was lvl 42 and the Nameless were 41 I think. To avoid long execution times I was on my mount and it worked really great against them. I have great hope för this build. In the previous video I had very few speed add-ons. When I look at the info on my toon (with the armor and weapon used in the video) it lists my speed as 116% and with Rousing Command it goes up to 132%. So, it's not the fastest toon, when it comes to running. Attack speed with that weapon is 123% and CA execution speed is 117%. I didn't see any speed numbers for the mount, but it sure is faster than running and the time it takes to fire all the projectiles against 1 target is faster while mounted. I know that not all CA's work well with mounts, but this one does exceptionally well against single targets. When I play Seraphim I never use the Tiger mount as she is faster using her Dashing Alacrity and also the Pelting Strikes feels weird on the mount. Edit 1: Here is the bossfight: LOL! sorry I just finished writing the last post in this topic, and... I just saw your post went up here noiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice Give me a few minutes and I'll get your video up on youtube and look at what you wrote then... stoked to see this Duke Out! As well, sorry about the site being down last night, we had add some mOO jUICE to some of beloved members' avatars! gogo
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 2 hours ago, gogoblender said: LOL! sorry I just finished writing the last post in this topic, and... I just saw your post went up here noiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice Give me a few minutes and I'll get your video up on youtube and look at what you wrote then... stoked to see this Duke Out! As well, sorry about the site being down last night, we had add some mOO jUICE to some of beloved members' avatars! gogo Aaaand... Uploaded! D A N G hmmmm, doesnt thinking about how were going to be buildling out at so early a level when its literally bringing the house down feel marvelous. Bravo on the build! Yah, its a currently a boss killer, and Yah I watched over a few times and noticed the red lining.. not such a bad thing, but an awareness. Maybe some thoughts I just now read your skill choices and Im trying to mind set with how we did the HE up to niiobium... equipment was and always is the biggest challenge right ? So whats interesting is now that because of your two choices for gearing youre in a place ahead of schedule where you get supreme drops from Guardians... but to get there you had to use those two skill choices. What if you were able to drop the two skill choices AND come ahead with all the benefits of both smithing and trading Is there anything enticing youd like to add to your build to make it more exciting, faster, death-defying! Have you considered building a trading network with trader trading stations of toons along your path (Schot's first toons were traders set u as far along he could push them) ... I forget now what the optimal levels were ( i will look it up) but the idea is to get traders up into the levels as high as you can in advance...and they can do all your smithing and shopping for you in advance... so that when your toon arrives as that level .. boom you got gear This was you could change out the your EP and Smith to ... something even more deadly with damage or protection... just thinking out loud.. creating a trader network is a lot of time, and in our days of HC Closed, everyone would share to make gaming more effective... so a lot of us had traders at different levels that could gear up our friends... for a SP... i mean... are you able to trade with yourself even? And all this may be inconsequential if the build is soooo OP that its not even needed.. if you were to simply start doing guardian runs now non stop you'd probably be able to gear up as well? Loved seeing those Boss Take Downs... waiting for the mob keeeeeeerushez... ... if yer able to get the files over to darkmatters ill youtube em for you as well.. its a lot of fun gogo
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 10, 2024 3 hours ago, gogoblender said: Another topic somewhere would allow us to entertain these quantum universes of possibilities as well, and so for now I'd like to bring up Rics build here which could bring me back to online gaming ..if a SW ranged build can truly scale. @ric7202 I showed Schot your build last night and he was just as delighted as I was when I saw how your set up works.. first thing he noticed however is that all the targets were quite weak (indicated by their circles) and that while he adored its seeming high kill speed, Bronze and silver builds rarely look like more mature builds. Were looking forward to your remarkable future Ranger Sir, show us whatcha got! For Ancariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa gogo Yes, they were lower than my lvl, but it was just to show how the animation looked like, and the speeds of execution and projectiles. I have another toon that is about lvl 35 on Silver who tears apart mobs 5-10 levels above him. I did however make some less than optimal skill choices with that one, so he'll become a shopper at lvl 50 and onwards. My NEW toon will be more focused on damage and defence and won't go for smith and EP. I expect him to level very fast, but first I'll finish my current achievement run on Bronze. I just finished the Office quest and am heading to get the last two Bugs in the bug-hunt quest. Funny thing, I was just down in the region with the flaming horses, flying skulls and such and ran unexpectedly into a miniboss I've never seen before. I had barely time to see that it was some kind of giant hellhound, then he was dead. Didn't even have time to start recording a vid of it. This is a young and untried build, but very fun all the same, so even if it doesn't pan out on the highest levels, it revived the game wonderfully for me. 1
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 10, 2024 2 hours ago, gogoblender said: Aaaand... Uploaded! D A N G hmmmm, doesnt thinking about how were going to be buildling out at so early a level when its literally bringing the house down feel marvelous. Bravo on the build! Yah, its a currently a boss killer, and Yah I watched over a few times and noticed the red lining.. not such a bad thing, but an awareness. Maybe some thoughts I just now read your skill choices and Im trying to mind set with how we did the HE up to niiobium... equipment was and always is the biggest challenge right ? So whats interesting is now that because of your two choices for gearing youre in a place ahead of schedule where you get supreme drops from Guardians... but to get there you had to use those two skill choices. What if you were able to drop the two skill choices AND come ahead with all the benefits of both smithing and trading Is there anything enticing youd like to add to your build to make it more exciting, faster, death-defying! Have you considered building a trading network with trader trading stations of toons along your path (Schot's first toons were traders set u as far along he could push them) ... I forget now what the optimal levels were ( I will look it up) but the idea is to get traders up into the levels as high as you can in advance...and they can do all your smithing and shopping for you in advance... so that when your toon arrives as that level .. boom you got gear This was you could change out the your EP and Smith to ... something even more deadly with damage or protection... just thinking out loud.. creating a trader network is a lot of time, and in our days of HC Closed, everyone would share to make gaming more effective... so a lot of us had traders at different levels that could gear up our friends... for a SP... I mean... are you able to trade with yourself even? And all this may be inconsequential if the build is soooo OP that its not even needed.. if you were to simply start doing guardian runs now non stop you'd probably be able to gear up as well? Loved seeing those Boss Take Downs... waiting for the mob keeeeeeerushez... ... if yer able to get the files over to darkmatters ill youtube em for you as well.. its a lot of fun gogo Thx for the nice review Yes I have a few shoppers, like 1 sera at lvl 50, 1 dryad at lvl 90, so I have managed to procure a few nice weapons and jewels that awaits me when I reach those levels. I´m thinking about trying alchemy and speed just for the fun of it.
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 7 minutes ago, ric7202 said: it revived the game wonderfully for me. I want that tooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo gogo 1
SLD 524 Posted October 10, 2024 14 hours ago, SLD said: And if you're wondering what "speed" in EE looks like that SW video I'd guess has less than half the cap. Maybe Ric could tell us the exact amount he had when recording that video to give a more accurate picture 5 hours ago, ric7202 said: CA execution speed is 117% So actually it could be almost 4 times as fast in the end. 5 hours ago, ric7202 said: Last night I also got to the final bosses and managed to take all 8 down faster than with any other toon I've played before. So you have no experience with the game whatsoever. Interesting. Besides the odd point of measuring how fast bronze bosses that are beneath your level can be killed... What the hell did you do to the poor SW, only eating 2 runes in Grim Resilience and then chugging potions? Having lots of attack rating (and not from items) and low amounts of other hitchance improving mods, which means you must have wasted lots of skillpoints on that. You could have probably been Immortal facetanking two at a time without potions... I accept the fact that you don't have %leech as a "not yet", because still only level 42. With proper scaling and gearing of that build the time to kill those guardians will shrink significantly. 5 hours ago, gogoblender said: Give me a few minutes and I'll get your video up on youtube Why does the video title start with "Gold"? Kinda confusing. 5 hours ago, gogoblender said: That execution felt emotionally wild and satisfying, Perfect gaming. And we tried repeatedly with Sacred 2 but because of the way the these CA's were reinterpreted , we could not find a way back to that feeling . 5 hours ago, gogoblender said: But the tuffest part of pulling off numbers is its connection to the player. So it has never been about the pace of the game, wether Sacred 2 is faster or slower, but only about trying to recreate an emotion from times past. Honestly I doubt you could recreate that fireball fun in Sacred Underworld today either. Because it's been so long ago and our minds tend to forget all the downsides of such an experience and only remember the peak of that emotional fun. You were younger, you were happy about the social experience and you were riding through the desert shooting fireballs. It probably won't get much better than this, no matter how fast you can slaughter hordes of enemies that feeling of joy and community will always be a slight bit out of reach as it has been "improved" with time. You just can't recreate your first time 5 hours ago, gogoblender said: deliriously satisfying one hit kills (for the most part right now) on underleveled enemies in bronze... 4 hours ago, gogoblender said: Yah, its a currently a boss killer, and Yah I watched over a few times and noticed the red lining.. not such a bad thing, but an awareness. It does ok at killing the bosses. But it is on underleveled bronze bosses and honestly, if you take much longer to kill those bosses, your build sucks. As I said already, scaling with good gear and proper skills that character in EE could -shoot almost 4 times as fast -every shot would hit -every hit would chunk the boss for at least 10% Those bosses will die in less than a single second per boss. And before all this bronze bashing and misskilled or whatever stuff gets misinterpreted, I understand that: 1 hour ago, ric7202 said: achievement run on Bronze. means the goals were different here. I just want to put all of this build stuff into perspective, as Gogo is drooling all over the place and makes this sound like you just unlocked never before seen levels of power, while in fact your videos just show an entry level use of an oddly reworked CA in EE. This is also not a build that hasn't been explored already, as once you sit on your hellhound it behaves like any other pelting strikes/frenzied rampage build with an energy weapon. Only on foot there is some odd and new behaviour in EE that I did not know before. So what you're doing to those bosses is exactly what every bfg sera and energy staff SW has been doing since the CM-Patch made those CAs shoot 4 projectiles in a burst(The original pelting strikes for example only shoots twice). So the ranged boss shredder is nothing new and that high amount of hits per time will scale greatly with %leech. It does btw also work exactly the same with throwing stars. Probably also with bows but I never found a reason to test bows specifically. 1 hour ago, ric7202 said: This is a young and untried build My point is, that it is really not untried. The only new thing is the on foot firing behaviour. It is really old, was born with the CM-patch and noone ever wrote a guide for it. 1 hour ago, ric7202 said: even if it doesn't pan out on the highest levels why sould it not? It follows the same mechanics every other attack based build in the game does. SW gets some of the greatest gear in the game both defensively and offensively and has the greatest buff defense of all classes. This build just mechanically combines the two guides I recently wrote, the BFG Sera and the Lightsaber SW. Take the SW CA and Skill choices, change the weapon lore for ranged and use the bfg sera ranged playstyle. So basically I just wrote a guide to this build in a oneliner The mentioned build guides are linked together here: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146227 This was also not about hijacking your build to link to mine, its about the mechanics explained over there that go into the details of scaling every attack build in Sacred 2. Especially the value of attribute damage, %leech and mitigation. You posted a guide and made us all aware of the odd shooting behaviour on foot. Noone before you did and noone before you knew. I'm glad you did that. But in the end the game mechanics at play here are not revolutionized and I hope the distinction is clear enough now. (Mostly clarified for Gogo I guess) Your build idea is cool and if I had time and an installation with EE right now, all I'd want is to scale that on foot style through the roof to see what it looks like at 450 cast speed Sadly I'm still stuck playtesting my bfg sera and after that I already have to playtest D2F testversion16 so I doubt I'll get to this anytime soon Could your build actually be the strongest build ever? Actually I think it might, but I'd have to do some testing with the on foot style. What happens with both double hit mods? What happens when you scale the combat art level? So many interesting questions still unanswered
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 22 minutes ago, SLD said: Why does the video title start with "Gold"? Kinda confusing. sorry, thats from me when I edited the post for the youtube upload.. I saw somewhere this morning down load sacred gold associated with this and wrote it in but its just for the game download I guess and is not correct... stand back while we .... E X P U N G E D gogo
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 42 minutes ago, SLD said: So actually it could be almost 4 times as fast in the end. So you have no experience with the game whatsoever. Interesting. Besides the odd point of measuring how fast bronze bosses that are beneath your level can be killed... What the hell did you do to the poor SW, only eating 2 runes in Grim Resilience and then chugging potions? Having lots of attack rating (and not from items) and low amounts of other hitchance improving mods, which means you must have wasted lots of skillpoints on that. You could have probably been Immortal facetanking two at a time without potions... I accept the fact that you don't have %leech as a "not yet", because still only level 42. With proper scaling and gearing of that build the time to kill those guardians will shrink significantly. Why does the video title start with "Gold"? Kinda confusing. So it has never been about the pace of the game, wether Sacred 2 is faster or slower, but only about trying to recreate an emotion from times past. Honestly I doubt you could recreate that fireball fun in Sacred Underworld today either. Because it's been so long ago and our minds tend to forget all the downsides of such an experience and only remember the peak of that emotional fun. You were younger, you were happy about the social experience and you were riding through the desert shooting fireballs. It probably won't get much better than this, no matter how fast you can slaughter hordes of enemies that feeling of joy and community will always be a slight bit out of reach as it has been "improved" with time. You just can't recreate your first time on underleveled enemies in bronze... It does ok at killing the bosses. But it is on underleveled bronze bosses and honestly, if you take much longer to kill those bosses, your build sucks. As I said already, scaling with good gear and proper skills that character in EE could -shoot almost 4 times as fast -every shot would hit -every hit would chunk the boss for at least 10% Those bosses will die in less than a single second per boss. And before all this bronze bashing and misskilled or whatever stuff gets misinterpreted, I understand that: means the goals were different here. I just want to put all of this build stuff into perspective, as Gogo is drooling all over the place and makes this sound like you just unlocked never before seen levels of power, while in fact your videos just show an entry level use of an oddly reworked CA in EE. This is also not a build that hasn't been explored already, as once you sit on your hellhound it behaves like any other pelting strikes/frenzied rampage build with an energy weapon. Only on foot there is some odd and new behaviour in EE that I did not know before. So what you're doing to those bosses is exactly what every bfg sera and energy staff SW has been doing since the CM-Patch made those CAs shoot 4 projectiles in a burst(The original pelting strikes for example only shoots twice). So the ranged boss shredder is nothing new and that high amount of hits per time will scale greatly with %leech. It does btw also work exactly the same with throwing stars. Probably also with bows but I never found a reason to test bows specifically. My point is, that it is really not untried. The only new thing is the on foot firing behaviour. It is really old, was born with the CM-patch and noone ever wrote a guide for it. why sould it not? It follows the same mechanics every other attack based build in the game does. SW gets some of the greatest gear in the game both defensively and offensively and has the greatest buff defense of all classes. This build just mechanically combines the two guides I recently wrote, the BFG Sera and the Lightsaber SW. Take the SW CA and Skill choices, change the weapon lore for ranged and use the bfg sera ranged playstyle. So basically I just wrote a guide to this build in a oneliner The mentioned build guides are linked together here: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146227 This was also not about hijacking your build to link to mine, its about the mechanics explained over there that go into the details of scaling every attack build in Sacred 2. Especially the value of attribute damage, %leech and mitigation. You posted a guide and made us all aware of the odd shooting behaviour on foot. Noone before you did and noone before you knew. I'm glad you did that. But in the end the game mechanics at play here are not revolutionized and I hope the distinction is clear enough now. (Mostly clarified for Gogo I guess) Your build idea is cool and if I had time and an installation with EE right now, all I'd want is to scale that on foot style through the roof to see what it looks like at 450 cast speed Sadly I'm still stuck playtesting my bfg sera and after that I already have to playtest D2F testversion16 so I doubt I'll get to this anytime soon Could your build actually be the strongest build ever? Actually I think it might, but I'd have to do some testing with the on foot style. What happens with both double hit mods? What happens when you scale the combat art level? So many interesting questions still unanswered I still love the way this build looks and acts and its speed... remember hes still got two skills he can switch out right if he uses trader network., there’s some room for finessing .. could try and amp up his kill speed or put in something ...extra? i LOVED Alchemy... for a while *pony* builds were in style, this was just when game came out...they were mostly horrible, but they were a good test...all non ca actions...but someone had a break through build and I had to try it...got it to platinum I believe.. SO good at taking out bosses, literally melted them... but it was also one of the most boring builds Ive worked with...you just went around *Tok!* ing everything with a long stick ( halberd) maybe? (ooooh, i dont remember now whether to say alchemy is a right click or left click build.. gotta be careful.. SLD is waiting for me ) got boring really fast quickly and it just couldnt level fast enough ...but with Ric's ranged build , adding alchemy could be an option? ...build up protection against that red lining and really amp up the damage... unless when leveling up we see other weaknesses beginning to appear and wed have to find more protection... really enjoying seeing where this build goes. gogo
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 10, 2024 2 hours ago, SLD said: So actually it could be almost 4 times as fast in the end. So you have no experience with the game whatsoever. Interesting. Besides the odd point of measuring how fast bronze bosses that are beneath your level can be killed... What the hell did you do to the poor SW, only eating 2 runes in Grim Resilience and then chugging potions? Having lots of attack rating (and not from items) and low amounts of other hitchance improving mods, which means you must have wasted lots of skillpoints on that. You could have probably been Immortal facetanking two at a time without potions... I accept the fact that you don't have %leech as a "not yet", because still only level 42. With proper scaling and gearing of that build the time to kill those guardians will shrink significantly. Why does the video title start with "Gold"? Kinda confusing. So it has never been about the pace of the game, wether Sacred 2 is faster or slower, but only about trying to recreate an emotion from times past. Honestly I doubt you could recreate that fireball fun in Sacred Underworld today either. Because it's been so long ago and our minds tend to forget all the downsides of such an experience and only remember the peak of that emotional fun. You were younger, you were happy about the social experience and you were riding through the desert shooting fireballs. It probably won't get much better than this, no matter how fast you can slaughter hordes of enemies that feeling of joy and community will always be a slight bit out of reach as it has been "improved" with time. You just can't recreate your first time on underleveled enemies in bronze... It does ok at killing the bosses. But it is on underleveled bronze bosses and honestly, if you take much longer to kill those bosses, your build sucks. As I said already, scaling with good gear and proper skills that character in EE could -shoot almost 4 times as fast -every shot would hit -every hit would chunk the boss for at least 10% Those bosses will die in less than a single second per boss. And before all this bronze bashing and misskilled or whatever stuff gets misinterpreted, I understand that: means the goals were different here. I just want to put all of this build stuff into perspective, as Gogo is drooling all over the place and makes this sound like you just unlocked never before seen levels of power, while in fact your videos just show an entry level use of an oddly reworked CA in EE. This is also not a build that hasn't been explored already, as once you sit on your hellhound it behaves like any other pelting strikes/frenzied rampage build with an energy weapon. Only on foot there is some odd and new behaviour in EE that I did not know before. So what you're doing to those bosses is exactly what every bfg sera and energy staff SW has been doing since the CM-Patch made those CAs shoot 4 projectiles in a burst(The original pelting strikes for example only shoots twice). So the ranged boss shredder is nothing new and that high amount of hits per time will scale greatly with %leech. It does btw also work exactly the same with throwing stars. Probably also with bows but I never found a reason to test bows specifically. My point is, that it is really not untried. The only new thing is the on foot firing behaviour. It is really old, was born with the CM-patch and noone ever wrote a guide for it. why sould it not? It follows the same mechanics every other attack based build in the game does. SW gets some of the greatest gear in the game both defensively and offensively and has the greatest buff defense of all classes. This build just mechanically combines the two guides I recently wrote, the BFG Sera and the Lightsaber SW. Take the SW CA and Skill choices, change the weapon lore for ranged and use the bfg sera ranged playstyle. So basically I just wrote a guide to this build in a oneliner The mentioned build guides are linked together here: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146227 This was also not about hijacking your build to link to mine, its about the mechanics explained over there that go into the details of scaling every attack build in Sacred 2. Especially the value of attribute damage, %leech and mitigation. You posted a guide and made us all aware of the odd shooting behaviour on foot. Noone before you did and noone before you knew. I'm glad you did that. But in the end the game mechanics at play here are not revolutionized and I hope the distinction is clear enough now. (Mostly clarified for Gogo I guess) Your build idea is cool and if I had time and an installation with EE right now, all I'd want is to scale that on foot style through the roof to see what it looks like at 450 cast speed Sadly I'm still stuck playtesting my bfg sera and after that I already have to playtest D2F testversion16 so I doubt I'll get to this anytime soon Could your build actually be the strongest build ever? Actually I think it might, but I'd have to do some testing with the on foot style. What happens with both double hit mods? What happens when you scale the combat art level? So many interesting questions still unanswered Up like the sun, down like a pancake. I cannot dream to have as effective toons as other more dedicated players who already have niob smiths and shoppers and friends who can share stuff. I have always only played by myself, and mostly used gear found by the toon I was currently playing. Not so much trading with myself until just recently. I've tried many builds just for the fun of it and to see what playstyles and skills I enjoy playing with, not so much to beat Niob specifically. EE changed a lot, most of it for the better and some I don't really understand why it was changed. Like the dryads teleporting, I had kinda gotten used to it and was sad to see it replaced with that strange poison trap, but that's another story. The SW and energy staff combo must have been used by others, which I recognized earlier, but it was new for me and I found it rather exciting and thought it might be fun to make a guide with focus on EE. Ohh which reminds me.. I might have forgotten to mention in the guide that I use the Alternate Spell mod for EE as well. I must remedy that. I understand now that the performance of my toon in my video was bad and off the mark. I should not have used the mount since the build was all about the "on foot" play. My bad. It will not happen again. I had not had much experience with SW and the mount and the CA so I felt a little excited by it's fast performance against single targets. Maybe I'll try that as a build next time. 1
SLD 524 Posted October 10, 2024 1 hour ago, gogoblender said: (ooooh, I dont remember now whether to say alchemy is a right click or left click build.. gotta be careful.. SLD is waiting for me ) Oh, he's already preparing for me with the Butcher... But this time I'm not afraid the Yak-O-Lantern hides well behind that pumpkin and the butcher won't be interested in that walking veggie(I mean fruit). All he wants is fresh meat, so I'll be safe On with the Alchemy. It's not a build at all. It only allows eating some useless crap that you'll never have enough of without duping. So in EE Alchemy only really makes sense when cheating 2 hours ago, SLD said: What the hell did you do to the poor SW, only eating 2 runes in Grim Resilience I just reread your guide and I finally understand. You tried to make him a single Aspect build, but still took concentration for double buff. That is quite a confusing choice. And theoretically for endgame, one could say you are actually right with that choice. Impressive When reaching full mitigation the life amount and phys mitigation from Grim Resilience would no longer matter, only the life regen would help somewhat against enemies with leech. You can however easily deal with them via your own life recovery on hit/potions, so actually grim resilience would no longer be necessary and only waste skillpoints and slow down regen times. Activating the first level of it however does protect against buff removal as it will always hit grim resilience before reflective emanation. So you actually did everything right with that choice. It does also explain your defensive struggle in the early game. So why was I reviewing the skills section of the guide again? 2 hours ago, gogoblender said: adding alchemy could be an option? ...build up protection against that red lining and really amp up the damage... unless when leveling up we see other weaknesses beginning to appear and wed have to find more protection.. Well from the first section we want MC Focus and Concentration, from the second Ranged weapons and Tactics Lore, from the third Armor Lore and Toughness leaving us with up to 4 green skills... So there is space to put basically everything into this build including alchemy. Ric chose EP,Smith,Combat Discipline and Spell Resist but left out toughness and kept a slot open. I would never advise to leave out toughness. 2 hours ago, gogoblender said: I saw somewhere this morning down load sacred gold associated with this and wrote it in but its just for the game download I think you "E X P U N G E D" the wrong thing. The Download is in the download section for Sacred Gold so the automated thread created is titled: "Sacred 2 downloads - Gold [Title]" That was correct. When copying this title to youtube you picked up the "gold" because there is no seperation between the title and the name of the download section but there is a hyphen before the "Gold". Now the download has lost its gold, but the youtube video still has it. And both is wrong. I got confused on the youtube video because it just starts with "Gold", which is confusing as it is "bronze" affter all, while in the download thread it all made sense because the "Gold" refers to the "Sacred 2 downloads" before it just meaning it is for Sacred Gold/requires the addon.
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 10, 2024 11 minutes ago, ric7202 said: so I felt a little excited by it's fast performance against single targets. This is the best part of what you wrote keep it close to your heart and stick to it/ your vision is good keep solutioning and maybe.. we'll have a great ranged SW here on these boards in a while, keep patient and stay the course You have lots of room, time and curiosity to keep the kindle in this build alive for Ancariaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa gogo ps at this level hows it doing against mobs..if you got a video shoot it up and I can drag it to youtube! (ps hope our servers are okay for you tonight, I felt they were a wee bit weird last night as well, after we did the avatar halloween upgrade and were using a lot of *moo* juice to run these snazzy default avatars aaaand... SLD's new (And only allowed animated !) Avatar is HELLA power drain ... we need ..maybe some more unsuspecting rabbits
SLD 524 Posted October 10, 2024 45 minutes ago, ric7202 said: Up like the sun, down like a pancake. I cannot dream to have as effective toons as other more dedicated players who already have niob smiths and shoppers and friends who can share stuff. I have always only played by myself, and mostly used gear found by the toon I was currently playing. I also usually only use what the character found itself. You do not need a smith for this build, just pick smithing as you did. Don't put points in smithing, keep gear with + smihing/all skills/general skills and use that gearset when smithing. I hate shopping as it keeps me away from playing the game. Shopping in EE can't really give you anything useful except: -a multi socketed low level weapon, for which I would make an extra char dedicated to shopping. (See my lessons on attribute damage for why you'd want that one) -lots of rare jewellery That Jewellery for socketing might be nice but in the end the things you really wanna socket will all be set/unique/legendary jewellery so it's kind of a midgame boost. In the end shopping will give you nothing but it might make the way there easier at the cost of a skill. I usually don't bother making a shopping character other than the mentioned low level one for the socketed low level equipment and maybe some starting gear stuff. 23 minutes ago, ric7202 said: I've tried many builds just for the fun of it and to see what playstyles and skills I enjoy playing with, not so much to beat Niob specifically. Same here. Had that "phase" when the game came out. Now all I want is Powah! 25 minutes ago, ric7202 said: The SW and energy staff combo must have been used by others, which I recognized earlier, but it was new for me and I found it rather exciting and thought it might be fun to make a guide with focus on EE. Nothing wrong with that, It brought us all here and got us started talking about it after all. It also brought up the odd on foot behaviour. I'm glad you made this guide and showed us all the juicy details 27 minutes ago, ric7202 said: Like the dryads teleporting, I had kinda gotten used to it and was sad to see it replaced with that strange poison trap, but that's another story. 27 minutes ago, ric7202 said: Ohh which reminds me.. I might have forgotten to mention in the guide that I use the Alternate Spell mod for EE as well. I must remedy that. I think there is a connection between those two lines 28 minutes ago, ric7202 said: I understand now that the performance of my toon in my video was bad and off the mark. I should not have used the mount since the build was all about the "on foot" play. My bad. No, you did show exactly what we needed to see. The on foot part in the first video and the mounted boss kills, as you didn't want to lock yourself in the long on foot animation all made perfect sense and gave me the material with which to describe what could be once scaled etc. I was very happy with the videos. I considered them a great help to this discussion. 32 minutes ago, ric7202 said: I had not had much experience with SW and the mount and the CA so I felt a little excited by it's fast performance against single targets. Yes, it is probably one of the best boss killing mechanics out there. And don't worry just because I already knew, Gogo for sure did not. 33 minutes ago, ric7202 said: Maybe I'll try that as a build next time. what do you mean? You have a nice ranged shredder right here, the on foot part has never been seen in endgame before and the mounted part works well against single targets, so the basics are all there. We all want to see it with the second double hit mod of course but other than that... Just plan it right so you actually make it to endgame and we'll all be excited for the videos with the "real" fun happening If you want to get a build like this to niobium, nothing would make me happier than to see you succeed. 1
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 11, 2024 Ok, so I've begun the journey towards Niob with my new toon, Boomstick Bob. Atm he's lvl 8 and with no special gear and he easily kills the White Griffin. Now on to Silver to see how he fares there at this low lvl. Sorry for the low quality vid, but you'll see how he fights. Frenzied is now modded with + crit chance and 2x chance for double shots. Skills taken are so far: Tactics Lore, Malevolent Champion Focus, Ranged weapons, Concentration. Regen time for Frenzied is 5 sec. Damage is 80-113 (40-56 on the stick alone) and Frenzied is 91-129 (all physical dmg). This time I'll focus on dmg and def first hand, then maybe some utility skill at the end if needed. 1
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 11, 2024 3 hours ago, ric7202 said: Ok, so I've begun the journey towards Niob with my new toon, Boomstick Bob. Atm he's lvl 8 and with no special gear and he easily kills the White Griffin. Now on to Silver to see how he fares there at this low lvl. This time I'll focus on dmg and def first hand, then maybe some utility skill at the end if needed. Love how you're respeccing... for me, nothing had ever felt better than ista-melts ...unless youre building a utility character to spread your *build* over a number of toons with one playing as center-star. I've updated file to youtube, its currently showing in your post... A lovely smack ... Im very interested in these boom sticks... got a pic of the one youre currently using ? how many sockets? As well, I think future forward I can offer two choices, I can offer to bring your buld over to SacredWiki Youtube channel... if so , You'd probably want to thematize a kind of title for the adventure.. this way you'd start collecting a series of theses videos in a row which would show lovely (hopefully) progression but most importantly... just that youre making a build thats exciting and can help others Again, your post is an extra sugar in my cup for the morning coffee...thank you for sharing your journey.. I wish it had been as easy as it is now these days to manifest these videos. Would playing online with someone else be of interest ? I think theres a topic somewhere here where a group of people *hacked* the Sacred Code to launch MP servers again... Your effort with your build is opening up all manner of universes .. not marvel of course... gawd, ewwwwwwwwwww.. i mean Sacred universes gogo 1
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 11, 2024 5 hours ago, gogoblender said: Love how you're respeccing... for me, nothing had ever felt better than ista-melts ...unless youre building a utility character to spread your *build* over a number of toons with one playing as center-star. I've updated file to youtube, its currently showing in your post... A lovely smack ... Im very interested in these boom sticks... got a pic of the one youre currently using ? how many sockets? As well, I think future forward I can offer two choices, I can offer to bring your buld over to SacredWiki Youtube channel... if so , You'd probably want to thematize a kind of title for the adventure.. this way you'd start collecting a series of theses videos in a row which would show lovely (hopefully) progression but most importantly... just that youre making a build thats exciting and can help others Again, your post is an extra sugar in my cup for the morning coffee...thank you for sharing your journey.. I wish it had been as easy as it is now these days to manifest these videos. Would playing online with someone else be of interest ? I think theres a topic somewhere here where a group of people *hacked* the Sacred Code to launch MP servers again... Your effort with your build is opening up all manner of universes .. not marvel of course... gawd, ewwwwwwwwwww.. I mean Sacred universes gogo Hmm a series, that sounds intriguing. I'll start sketching on it tonight. Here are the sticks: 1
ric7202 192 Author Posted October 11, 2024 So Griffin on Silver (we're both lvl 15) was a little more challenging, but not much 1
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 11, 2024 1 hour ago, ric7202 said: So Griffin on Silver (we're both lvl 15) was a little more challenging, but not much and .. video'd! ... its interesting to see how the CA strikes outs targets,.. how does it choose... will it always deliver everything to whoever you point on or... ? gogo
gogoblender 3,420 Posted October 11, 2024 2 hours ago, ric7202 said: Hmm a series, that sounds intriguing. I'll start sketching on it tonight. Here are the sticks: The electric executioner is fabulous looking ... for a lowbee level 15 u got some heat Is two the max number of sockets on these boom sticks? I need to look at the wiki for this, been a loooooooong while for lazers ... as well... anyone think that that wep kinda referernces matrix ?
