SLD 524 Posted November 16, 2024 22 hours ago, ric7202 said: The level of armor affects defence, On those pieces that do give defence, yes, level does affect that. What you probably meant is the armor value, that one also increases with the item's level. But most items only give physical armor anyway. Again something that helps in your approach and not so much in mine, as I usually quickly move to physical mitigation which makes that armour value obsolete. At the beginnig I also aim for high armor values, so a higher level item would help there a lot, especially in the chest armour, shoulder and helmet slots, which ususually have higher values. 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 16, 2024 7 hours ago, SLD said: On those pieces that do give defence, yes, level does affect that. What you probably meant is the armor value, that one also increases with the item's level. But most items only give physical armor anyway. Again something that helps in your approach and not so much in mine, as I usually quickly move to physical mitigation which makes that armour value obsolete. At the beginnig I also aim for high armor values, so a higher level item would help there a lot, especially in the chest armour, shoulder and helmet slots, which ususually have higher values. Yess... finally something we agree about Where do you get your phys mitigation from?
Sethi22 279 Posted November 16, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, ric7202 said: Where do you get your phys mitigation from? I know! I know! Mainly from Sera runes that give phys mitigation when socketed. I have no idea about EE though, whether this is changed or not is something for you to discover and share! (In the original game, every Exalted Warrior rune gives phys mitigation, and the numbers go up with difficulty level.) Edited November 16, 2024 by Sethi22
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 16, 2024 1 hour ago, Sethi22 said: I know! I know! Mainly from Sera runes that give phys mitigation when socketed. I have no idea about EE though, whether the alternative ones give it too is something for you to discover and share! (In the original, every Exalted Warrior rune gives phys mitigation.) Ahh nice. Although the Sera runes only gives 2.5% so it takes a lot of socks to be effective. I haven't checked all characters runes for stats, but SW has none at least.
Sethi22 279 Posted November 16, 2024 (edited) Yes, but it gets better. It's 3.5 on gold, and as far as I know, it goes up 1 with each difficulty level, so 5.5% in Niobium. (Sethi good pupil, Pumpkinhead sir?) Edited November 16, 2024 by Sethi22
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 16, 2024 (edited) 1 hour ago, Sethi22 said: Yes, but it gets better. It's 3.5 on gold, and as far as I know, it goes up 1 with each difficulty level, so 5.5% in Niobium. (Sethi good pupil, Pumpkinhead sir?) Very good! 10 sockets is not unreasonable to spend for 55% phys mitigation I guess. I wonder, does that also mitigate spells that do phys dmg? Or is it only melee? How about ranged? If you play this build right, you'll almost never get hit by melee. I have found that ranged and spellcasters are the most dangerous to me, so anything that can mitigate that is worth a lot. Edited November 16, 2024 by ric7202
ric7202 197 Author Popular Post Posted November 16, 2024 (edited) Rats rats everywhere rats... ratburgers, ratomelette, ratcake, rat-tart... Can I have something with not so much rat in it? What? You mean a ratcake without rats in it? Yes. Eurgh!! Disgusting!! Well, I'll have a Swamp Creature then... And bring a bucket! Edited November 16, 2024 by ric7202 2
Sethi22 279 Posted November 16, 2024 (edited) Yes, I think it mitigates all of that. Lifeleech was something it couldn't mitigate, if I remember my lessons correctly, but will come and tell you the whole story. He has already written all this down for me once, that's where I've learned it from. I had absolutely no clue about all this. (And while you're at it @SLD sir, you could also teach me how to quote properly from another topic... emmm... thread... post... Whatever!!! ) Edited November 16, 2024 by Sethi22 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 16, 2024 (edited) So, I'm soon to pick my last skill, but I'm indecisive... There are so many options. * Combat Discipline - A bit regen reduction and some added dmg - what's not to like? * Death Warrior Focus - Mainly to be able to get Rousing Command level up a bit. And if I'm gonna use the Minotaur later on. I like him. Also one can beef up the buff a bit, getting a nice chunk of life added. * Astral Lore or Focus - Shivering Miasma has some cool mods if made into a buff. Heck, even if not a buff it's nice, but one would need the skill to be able to mod it. * Speed Lore - More attack and defense and some speed too. * Combat Reflexes - Evade... very nice, though it will take some time to get it to full strength. * Enhanced Perception - More stuff, better stuff, cooler stuff... did I say more stuff? Atm I'm leaning on Combat Reflexes. If I'm not hit, I'm not hit. But the Minotaur is fun. And Miasma has good debuffs but what about the range? It is never mentioned what range it has. Killing Spree is already boosting my speed (kind of like the barbarians Frenzy skill in Diablo 2) but more speed + better attack and defence values is always nice. Edited November 17, 2024 by ric7202 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 17, 2024 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sethi22 said: Yes, I think it mitigates all of that. Lifeleech was something it couldn't mitigate, if I remember my lessons correctly, but will come and tell you the whole story. He has already written all this down for me once, that's where I've learned it from. I had absolutely no clue about all this. (And while you're at it @SLD sir, you could also teach me how to quote properly from another topic... emmm... thread... post... Whatever!!! ) That's absolutely fab. That in combo with 50% evade and 30-40% reflection and other stuff makes him a really tough dude. I see now why SLD likes it so much. Another question about chance to evade. Is there a cap to that? Say I get 50% chance to evade from Combat Reflexes, then add 5 rings with 10% each which makes that 100%, but I guess it's not that easy. Diminishing returns perhaps? And even if I did get it up to 100%, I bet there is some kind of calculation formula that makes sure that the actual chance to evade never reaches 100% success. I think I must stop thinking in absolute terms. 50% chance to evade is not like flipping a coin. There is a formula involving lots of stuff. Too complicated for me to dig into at this hour (it's almost 2 in the morning here). Edit: So I did a bit of reading and some say that it's not additive. 50 + 30 = 60. 50+30+30=65 and so on. Best is to get it from 1 source. And they say the cap is 95% Edited November 17, 2024 by ric7202 1
SLD 524 Posted November 17, 2024 15 hours ago, Sethi22 said: I know! I know! Mainly from Sera runes that give phys mitigation when socketed. 13 hours ago, Sethi22 said: Yes, but it gets better. It's 3.5 on gold, and as far as I know, it goes up 1 with each difficulty level, so 5.5% in Niobium. (Sethi good pupil, Pumpkinhead sir?) It says on the runes 3.5% for gold and 4.4% for platinum. I think niobium ones are 5.5% again. These values might not be exact, the game seems to track it in more detail, so 10x 3.5% might actually end up being 35.3% or something.(Just random numbers here for the example. I don't know the exact values.). 10 hours ago, Sethi22 said: es, I think it mitigates all of that. Lifeleech was something it couldn't mitigate, if I remember my lessons correctly, but will come and tell you the whole story. It mitigates physical damage no matter where it comes from. Attacks/Spells, HitDamage or DotDamage. It mitigates everything that's physical. For the other elements we got damage mitigation Fire/Ice/Poison/Magic. For leech damage we don't have a matching mitigation. 10 hours ago, Sethi22 said: And while you're at it @SLD sir, you could also teach me how to quote properly from another topic... emmm... thread... post... Whatever!!! I usually go to the other thread, select stuff I want to quote and put it in a quote on that topic(without posting that). Then I just select the entire quote box(by clicking on the top bar of it for example) and use "CTRL+C" to copy it. now I open the thread where I want to post it and "CTRL+V" it in. You can just do this from one browser tab to another etc. I don't know if there is a more elegant way. btw. I've already linked to my guides in this thread twice, once on page 1 and once on page 2. If he doesn't want to read them there is not much more I can do. 10 hours ago, ric7202 said: That's absolutely fab. That in combo with 50% evade and 30-40% reflection and other stuff makes him a really tough dude. I see now why SLD likes it so much. No you don't see it yet. Once you add the other 50% mitigation you'll see it... 10 hours ago, ric7202 said: Another question about chance to evade. Is there a cap to that? Say I get 50% chance to evade from Combat Reflexes, then add 5 rings with 10% each which makes that 100%, but I guess it's not that easy. Diminishing returns perhaps? And even if I did get it up to 100%, I bet there is some kind of calculation formula that makes sure that the actual chance to evade never reaches 100% success. 10 hours ago, ric7202 said: Edit: So I did a bit of reading and some say that it's not additive. 50 + 30 = 60. 50+30+30=65 and so on. Best is to get it from 1 source. And they say the cap is 95% Not sure where you've done your research again... For the hitchance calculations I wrote this dumbed down version: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146267 It's source is linked in it as well. I think that was before we knew about combat reflexes. Now we do know, combat reflexes is it's own multiplier on that. 1
ric7202 197 Author Popular Post Posted November 17, 2024 1 hour ago, SLD said: It says on the runes 3.5% for gold and 4.4% for platinum. I think niobium ones are 5.5% again. These values might not be exact, the game seems to track it in more detail, so 10x 3.5% might actually end up being 35.3% or something.(Just random numbers here for the example. I don't know the exact values.). It mitigates physical damage no matter where it comes from. Attacks/Spells, HitDamage or DotDamage. It mitigates everything that's physical. For the other elements we got damage mitigation Fire/Ice/Poison/Magic. For leech damage we don't have a matching mitigation. I usually go to the other thread, select stuff I want to quote and put it in a quote on that topic(without posting that). Then I just select the entire quote box(by clicking on the top bar of it for example) and use "CTRL+C" to copy it. now I open the thread where I want to post it and "CTRL+V" it in. You can just do this from one browser tab to another etc. I don't know if there is a more elegant way. btw. I've already linked to my guides in this thread twice, once on page 1 and once on page 2. If he doesn't want to read them there is not much more I can do. No you don't see it yet. Once you add the other 50% mitigation you'll see it... Not sure where you've done your research again... For the hitchance calculations I wrote this dumbed down version: https://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/72710-an-easy-character-for-a-returning-sacred-2-player/page/3/#comment-7146267 It's source is linked in it as well. I think that was before we knew about combat reflexes. Now we do know, combat reflexes is it's own multiplier on that. I'm afraid that my research, if one can call it that, is very rudimentary. I totally forgot about your guides, I'll take a look at them. What other 50% mitigation? Can you get 100% phys mitigation from 2 sources? Or are you referring to the Sera runes with mitigation on them. I'm utterly confused now, and think I'll just try to play the game and have fun. All this number crunching gives me a headache. 1 1 1
Sethi22 279 Popular Post Posted November 17, 2024 (edited) Well there's Toughness for you, that's another 12% when mastered https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Toughness And the rest can come mainly from sets and socketables, Kanka's set for the SW is something I'm aiming for at the moment, I have a few pieces already, but not the whole set: https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Kanka's_Relics (In the original game, Grim Resilience with the Safeguard gold mod gives you quite a bit of mitigation as well, but I guess it's replaced here by something else?) But you can shop for them too, as covered by our mentor here: On 9/21/2024 at 9:19 AM, SLD said: All channel Damage mitigation is available as two kinds of modifiers. Normal "%mitigation" and "%mitigation unlocked and based on armor mastery". Normal mitigation is the mod on most set and unique items that have mitigation. The "linked mitigation" can usually only appear on rare items and very rarely on unique or set items, in the base game I think the only instance on a unique would be the shadow warrior's unique belt. Also as this mitigation is linked to armor mastery it will only ever appear on items lvl 75 and above. Rare Shoulder and chest armour pieces can be found/shopped with normal mitigation, linked mitigation or rarely even both. At least in later mods (D2F, EE, addendum) rare lightsabers can roll normal mitigation as well. Other than that there should be no rare sources for mitigation. For unique/set pieces you already mentioned the glacial defender for normal all channel mitigation, the other item in this slot is the Kira's set shield(really rare but has a higher value of that mod). Some classes have set pieces on the not shoulder/chest armour slots like the seraphim with endijian wings. There are also set leg plates for the temple guardian. And beyond these things there are a few unique amulets like "tanit's collar" that have all damage type mitigation that can at endgame levels reach like 3 or 4 % so with enough of these and a lot of sockets obviously everyone can reach 100%. In general all classes can wear a chest armour. Everyone except for inquisitors and temple guardians can chose to wear a shield, while those two both get a buff with mitigation. Many classes can wear shoulder pieces, but not all... Some classes can use the toughness skill to help. Some classes have extra set items and the shadow warrior gets an extra unique belt with a linked version of the mod. With CM patch shadow warriors get a super charged linked version on the kanka chest armour... Wow it worked! Now I can quote from other threads too! Edited November 17, 2024 by Sethi22 1 1
SLD 524 Popular Post Posted November 17, 2024 1 hour ago, ric7202 said: What other 50% mitigation? Can you get 100% phys mitigation from 2 sources? Or are you referring to the Sera runes with mitigation on them. No not 2 sources. You said you can get like 50% from 10 sera runes here: 16 hours ago, ric7202 said: Very good! 10 sockets is not unreasonable to spend for 55% phys mitigation I guess. and I meant with another <10 sockets you can reach 100%. Usually other sources are used to help there. Sethi already listed quite a few. There are also some other set items that have phys mitigation directly on them etc. The point is just that reaching 100% phys mitigation takes out all those annoying physical damage sources entirely. And at least the physical 100% mitigation is quite a reachable goal. The 100% mitigation against all damage types is usually more an endgame dream. 30 minutes ago, Sethi22 said: In the original game, Grim Resilience with the Safeguard gold mod gives you quite a bit of mitigation as well, but I guess it's replaced here by something else?) No, Grim resilience works the same in EE. Ric's build is just mainly using the second aspect and would technically not need the death warrior at all so he, if at all, only uses a low level grim resilience, as a higher one would wreck his regen times. 37 minutes ago, Sethi22 said: Wow it worked! Now I can quote from other threads too! Yeah, cool. One can even click on that arrow on the right side of that quote to visit its thread of origin 2
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 17, 2024 1 hour ago, SLD said: No not 2 sources. You said you can get like 50% from 10 sera runes here: and I meant with another <10 sockets you can reach 100%. Usually other sources are used to help there. Sethi already listed quite a few. There are also some other set items that have phys mitigation directly on them etc. The point is just that reaching 100% phys mitigation takes out all those annoying physical damage sources entirely. And at least the physical 100% mitigation is quite a reachable goal. The 100% mitigation against all damage types is usually more an endgame dream. No, Grim resilience works the same in EE. Ric's build is just mainly using the second aspect and would technically not need the death warrior at all so he, if at all, only uses a low level grim resilience, as a higher one would wreck his regen times. Yeah, cool. One can even click on that arrow on the right side of that quote to visit its thread of origin Good, I've been working night this weekend so I was a bit tired. And you're right about Grim Resilience, atm I've got it to about lvl 16 (1 rune read) with some booster-armor and I don't expect it to get much higer until I get the regen times down more. I'm glad to hear that phys mitigation isn't subjected to diminished returns or capped lvls. Wohoo 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 17, 2024 More bugs, big bugs, nasty bugs! I forgot to switch to poison relics, so they managed to get in a hit, but not too serious. I also switched out some of my jewelry to sera runes so now I have about 25% physical mitigation. 1
ric7202 197 Author Popular Post Posted November 18, 2024 Ughh when will I ever learn... I totally love the idea of the dual wielding blade Seraphim, and finding awsome swords here and there I think "Ohh nice, I just have to make a dual wield sera who can use this awsome sword," and so I do and EVERY god darn time I get disappointed because she sucks at taking down mobs out of her range. And then I find a nice energistic weapon and WOHOO she flies forward like a hornet on steroids and just eliminates everything in her way and then she gets into a big mob and dies because it takes too long to switch back to the swords and the regen is too high and I didn't take ranged skill and I forgot to fill her sockets with LL rings and such and I'll never ever gonna play a sera again because the pelting strike sucks with swords and I hate her... until I find a cool and awsome sword that I think would be perfect for a dual wield Seraphim... Sorry... just a ranting after I got too optimistic with a blade sera I had that died under the hooves of the Raging Boar. I really should stick to ranged builds. Those are much more up my alley. But dang those swords look cool. Sigh... 2
SLD 524 Posted November 18, 2024 23 hours ago, ric7202 said: I'm glad to hear that phys mitigation isn't subjected to diminished returns or capped lvls. Wohoo That is not limited to physical. All mitigation stats work that way. (Unless you are playing with addendum or d2f testversion 16, then it gets a cap) 6 hours ago, ric7202 said: Sorry... just a ranting after I got too optimistic with a blade sera I had that died under the hooves of the Raging Boar. Does the raging boar have any non physical damage? I don't think so and if I'm right, you should know by now, how to become perfectly boarproof. 1
SLD 524 Popular Post Posted November 18, 2024 20 hours ago, ric7202 said: More bugs, big bugs, nasty bugs! "Let me tell you something: I'm from Buenos Aires and I say kill 'em all!" 1 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 18, 2024 1 hour ago, SLD said: That is not limited to physical. All mitigation stats work that way. (Unless you are playing with addendum or d2f testversion 16, then it gets a cap) Does the raging boar have any non physical damage? I don't think so and if I'm right, you should know by now, how to become perfectly boarproof. Ohh sure I know, I was just being stupid and rushed her too fast without being prepared enough. Thing is... I'm not really a melee-guy, but I'm easily seduced, and then I don't have the patience to play her the right way. And I miss how Pelting worked with the Sera before the latest CM-patch. But not to worry, I just lost 3 levels and I will probably return and do her the right way soon again Ooohhh I have always wanted to go to South America. At least to the warm parts. It's ficking freezing here now in Sweden and I hate it. Brrrr. Can I come and live with you please? 1
Sethi22 279 Posted November 18, 2024 On 11/17/2024 at 2:57 PM, SLD said: No, Grim resilience works the same in EE. Ric's build is just mainly using the second aspect and would technically not need the death warrior at all so he, if at all, only uses a low level grim resilience, as a higher one would wreck his regen times. Well why don't you take DW focus as last skill then Ric, and pump grim resilience for poor old Squishy? And what's the 9th skill you picked? On the screenshot above, there are only 8 taken, 2 left. So you can't shop for reg per hit in EE at all if I got it right, but you can still have it on sets and uniques? Is that why you're stuggling with regtime?
gogoblender 3,429 Posted November 19, 2024 On 11/17/2024 at 8:17 AM, Sethi22 said: Well there's Toughness for you, that's another 12% when mastered https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Toughness And the rest can come mainly from sets and socketables, Kanka's set for the SW is something I'm aiming for at the moment, I have a few pieces already, but not the whole set: https://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Kanka's_Relics (In the original game, Grim Resilience with the Safeguard gold mod gives you quite a bit of mitigation as well, but I guess it's replaced here by something else?) But you can shop for them too, as covered by our mentor here: Wow it worked! Now I can quote from other threads too! Sweeeeeeeeet.. you are Quote Mastah! gogo 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 19, 2024 7 hours ago, Sethi22 said: Well why don't you take DW focus as last skill then Ric, and pump grim resilience for poor old Squishy? And what's the 9th skill you picked? On the screenshot above, there are only 8 taken, 2 left. So you can't shop for reg per hit in EE at all if I got it right, but you can still have it on sets and uniques? Is that why you're stuggling with regtime? I took Constitution as 9:th skill. That in combination with a high Grim Resilience would give him a LOT hitpoints I think. So yes, that would be a good alternative I think. But I´m also leaning towards Combat Reflex to get evade. Ohh decisions decisions... But why not have both, one can argue? Well, I am actually trying out a new toon with precisely that in mind. We'll se how that pans out in a couple of days. As far as I have seen with my shoppers, of which one is in his nineties, there is no regen-per-hit in jewelry in shops. It can however still be found on weapons or armor, but it's quite rare these days. I found a plain yellow energistic weapon with 0.5s that did wonders for my regen at that time. I have atm two setpieces that gives a total of 1 sec regen-per-hit, so right now regen is not a problem. With both buffs up and running I think my regen is about 3.5, which is low enough for Frenzied to run more or less non-stop. 1
SLD 524 Posted November 19, 2024 23 hours ago, ric7202 said: And I miss how Pelting worked with the Sera before the latest CM-patch What changed there? 23 hours ago, ric7202 said: Ooohhh I have always wanted to go to South America. At least to the warm parts. It's ficking freezing here now in Sweden and I hate it. Brrrr. Can I come and live with you please? Sorry my place was blown up by the bugs, which is also why I want to kill 'em all 20 hours ago, Sethi22 said: So you can't shop for reg per hit in EE at all if I got it right, but you can still have it on sets and uniques? Is that why you're stuggling with regtime? Kinda. You can still buy it on weapons. Not sure about anything else... but ric has already provided more details on that. 1
ric7202 197 Author Posted November 20, 2024 8 hours ago, SLD said: What changed there? Sorry my place was blown up by the bugs, which is also why I want to kill 'em all Kinda. You can still buy it on weapons. Not sure about anything else... but ric has already provided more details on that. You know the instant hit the dryad has with blowpipes? Well, when the Sera pelted with magic staves, she first hit all within melee-range like usual, then, if there were hits left to use, she'd instant hit on enemies out of melee range. Like, if there was 1 target close, and 5 other further away, she'd melee the first and ranged the others. I know she can do that in a more limited way now too, both with melee weapons if they are close by, and with magic staves far away with, but not with instant hits anymore, only with those flying fire or energy bolts (depending on the staff). So, no more instant hits on enemies even as far away as out of sight. I know it was an exploit, like the multiple instant hit a Dryad could do with melee magic staff and Darting Assault, but it was limited to 5-6 hits, not an entire screen and beyond. It was perfect for smaller crowds, first she slashed the close ones, then she shot those pesky ranged ones who stood a bit away. The shots fired from magic staves today are slow like snails in comparison and often miss as the targets tend to move.
