No Effect of +% Movement Speed?

[Eru 30]

12 hours ago, Khorath said:

Sorry. I'm afraid I did not understand this completely. What did you exactly mean with 'balance.txt cap'? I know the 'SkillAttackSpeedQuot' and 'SkillMoveSpeedQuot', but they don't seem to be a 'cap' in the way they function...

Is there another cap in the balance.txt?

By the balance.txt cap I refer to the values SpeedMin (default 500) and SpeedMax (default 1500) from balance.txt. They act as a cap for the for the speed factor (I.e. the percentage of move/attack/cast speed you have). Bonus_Speed_Limit increases the value SpeedMax, I.e. the upper bound for the speed percentage (which you refer to in the segment quoted below), but not the hidden cap to movespeed which is applied afterwards.

11 hours ago, Khorath said:

The test results are as follows:

Runspeed = 250 (in the creatureinfo.txt ) with 100% Movespeed in game: ca. 19,30s for the set distance

Runspeed = 250 (in the creatureinfo.txt ) with 150% Movespeed in game: ca. 16,40s for the set distance

Runspeed = 250 (in the creatureinfo.txt ) with 175% Movespeed in game: ca. 16,40s for the set distance (no further increase)

Thank you for doing the tests, this is very helpful!

I have found an explanation for this discrepancy: The hidden cap is still 250 (in both CM patch and EE at least). But the function "cTypeMgr::getSpeedFactorHack" does not actually give you 1. I only had a short look at this and did not do any thorough tests, so thank you for spotting this. I still do not quite know how the function works but it seems to give you a number depending on the type of the moving character. The possible values are:

0.8421053

1.222222

1.000000

0.7857143

1.032258

1.090909

1.103448

1.571429

From your observations the value 0.8421053 seems to fit the best. Then you have 300*0.8421053 = 252.63159 ~ 250 which would explain the observed cap. I.e. the real cap (for the value in creatureinfo.txt) would be 250/0.8421053 = 296.874987. And this would also mean that a run speed of 250 in creatureinfo.txt would actually be only approximately 210 real in game movement speed, in this case.

The value of 0.8421053 corresponds to type 1. Unfortunately, I do not know which type number corresponds to which actual creature type, I.e. I do not know what type 1 actually is. Where you on foot or mounted? This might be relevant here and on the one hand affect how fast you actually move (compared to the value in creatureinfo.txt) and on the other hand how much of a percentage bonus you need to reach the hidden cap.

12 hours ago, Khorath said:

BTW: There are a few ways of moving faster than the cap even in vanilla: Assailing Somersault for example. It let's you jump / skip parts of the map, so that the camera can't follow correctly. It even produces separate explored spots in the fog on the unexplored map rather than continous clearance...

Yes, this type of "movement" is neither running nor walking so it is not capped (as far as I know). But it might be more difficult to produce consistently fast movement in this way, in the sense that the camere cannot follow for a long period of time and one actually leaves the part of the screen, where objects are already rendered. Normally the camera "catches up" after some time. But with low enough reg time it might be possible, if one zooms out far enough (probably requires appropriate settings in optionsCustom.txt).

Edited November 7, 2024 by Eru

[Khorath 48]

Thanks for the clarification. So the Bonus_Speed_Limit increases the SpeedMax (default 1500) from balance.txt by a certain amount. This is the effect used in the Inquisitor's CA 'Frenetic Fervor' as far as I can tell. Contrary to what is stated in the wiki it should affect attack & cast speed instead of just attack-speed. In any case movement-speed(s) should be unchanged by this.

Your findings are really interesting. The 'type 1' you mentioned is most probably not the type of the creature in the creatureinfo.txt - correct? It would be pure coincidence, because the seraphim character has type = 1 in the creatureinfo.txt.

All tests I did were done on foot. The +% movespeed was derived from either equipment or the buff 'Dashing Alacrity'. It would be very hard to test if the real cap corresponds to a speed of 296.874987 in the creatureinfo.txt, because this value is so close to 300, that I cannot confidently exclude some measuring inaccuracy.

Yesterday I didn't run with other character types than the Seraphim, but I conducted tests with other characters before. I do not remember the exact speed-values in the creatureinfo.txt for them all, but I do remember, that no character was able to beat the distance faster than the 16.40s, no matter how much +% movement they got.

 

Edited November 7, 2024 by Khorath

[Khorath 48]

"Yes, this type of "movement" is neither running nor walking so it is not capped (as far as I know). But it might be more difficult to produce consistently fast movement in this way, in the sense that the camere cannot follow for a long period of time and one actually leaves the part of the screen, where objects are already rendered. Normally the camera "catches up" after some time. But with low enough reg time it might be possible, if one zooms out far enough (probably requires appropriate settings in optionsCustom.txt)." (quoted Eru)

You are right again. I had custom camera-settings at that time... it is nearly impossible to do so without a greater zoom-distance.

Edited November 7, 2024 by Khorath
Failed to quote correctly

[SLD 524]

2 hours ago, Eru said:

Yes, this type of "movement" is neither running nor walking so it is not capped (as far as I know). But it might be more difficult to produce consistently fast movement in this way, in the sense that the camere cannot follow for a long period of time and one actually leaves the part of the screen, where objects are already rendered.

Cheating is always a solution... So in the Diablo 2 Fallen mod the "barbarian" class, which is basically a reworked shadow warrior can use its jump skill with infinite distance. So all you got to do is turn the camera low and aim faaaaaar away and you'll just jump out of the active game zone. For example. you could jump from the dryad island harbour over to the turtle island with the poison lord... The game will lag a bit and then the camera will catch up and everything is fine again. The jump doesn't take extra time for the extra distance, so it's definitely the fastest possible movement in the game that doesn't involve some kind of portal. 
But as jumping is neither walking nor running I don't see it at all connected to this speed cap discussion... It is certainly waaay faster then the speed cap discussed here.

[Eru 30]

On 11/7/2024 at 12:23 PM, Khorath said:

The 'type 1' you mentioned is most probably not the type of the creature in the creatureinfo.txt - correct? It would be pure coincidence, because the seraphim character has type = 1 in the creatureinfo.txt.

That is a promising idea. If it is true, I guess the hidden movement factors should be:

This would also explain why I thought that the factor is 1, as I only tested it with the High Elf.

One should be able to check this for all the characters by measuring the time they need for your test distance, even without any run speed modifiers.

[Khorath 48]

Eru, the hidden factors you found sound indeed promising. Really interesting!!! I will commence testing once I have a little bit of time. I hope, that I can measure the speed accurately enough to discern between the rather similar numbers.

I will post here again soon...

[Khorath 48]

Hello dear forum-members,

we are coming closer... I have tested the speeds of all characters (only on foot) over the usual distance:

If I change the movespeed value of a charactertype in the creatureinfo.txt to a value equal to the speedcap of 250 divided by the numbers Eru provided, all characters need (more or less) exactly 16.40s for the same distance. At that value +% movespeed-items or skills no longer have any effect (apart from making the running animations faster).

The values I used in the creatureinfo.txt are marked orange in the table below. (The gray values are the values from the unchanged file.)

This seems to confirm, that there is indeed a speed-cap of 250 for all characters, but (maybe due to animation-considerations) each type of character needs a different speed-value in the creatureinfo.txt to reach the cap.

[Eru 30]

On 11/19/2024 at 8:18 AM, Khorath said:

Hello dear forum-members,

we are coming closer... I have tested the speeds of all characters (only on foot) over the usual distance:

If I change the movespeed value of a charactertype in the creatureinfo.txt to a value equal to the speedcap of 250 divided by the numbers Eru provided, all characters need (more or less) exactly 16.40s for the same distance. At that value +% movespeed-items or skills no longer have any effect (apart from making the running animations faster).

The values I used in the creatureinfo.txt are marked orange in the table below. (The gray values are the values from the unchanged file.)

This seems to confirm, that there is indeed a speed-cap of 250 for all characters, but (maybe due to animation-considerations) each type of character needs a different speed-value in the creatureinfo.txt to reach the cap.

Thank you for doing the tests! At least for characters on foot this seems to settle the question. And it allows us to finally answer the following question:

On 10/31/2024 at 5:11 AM, SLD said:

That would already put vanilla characters over the cap with movespeed gear, right?
190x1.5=285>250?

Or is the 250 cap a pre bonus one and the 300 post bonus?

Actually no, at least on foot. Here, everyone seems to have a real base speed of ~160, which (barely) does not suffice. In the mounted case it should be quite different though, and most of the characters should hit the cap. 

Although I am not quite sure the factors I gave for the mounted case are correct and whether they apply to both horses and special mounts or only to one of them.