[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

Thanks again, by the way really interesting thread in regard to DS

 

So Chattius thinks it's a bug. Still I think it's still worse it, 25% @level 11 isn't shabby for a class that has no mean to lower its regen time

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

Ok sorry if I post a lot. I tested yesterday night the various mod for DS on the 360 so here are the results:

 

On the 360 the wildfire mod seems do what he should as you suggested Essjayehm. The stimulate mod seems to work too. So I got to change my mod selection for DS from max damages to max debuffing. I owe you quiet some thanks Essjayehm, level a character takes time I would have been piffed off to realize only too late that I didn't have the right information to begin with.

 

I also test IS and it works as you implied too ie the Inquisitor doesn't wait till the end of IS to finish the combo => the critter is helpless during the combo execution which is cool .

 

I'm more iffy about the "loathing" mod for MP (lowering armor value). Some extra testing is too come about that (I plan to fight the "chief gobelin/ogre" and see if damages and see how damages compare between CE and CE after MP basically). After that hopefully I should be done and make the final decision between ranged or melee.

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

Enjoyable read, Super-Avianti! I always DW my Inqs, so it's good to see some reasoning for the ranged version(s).

Thanks, I try hard even though logic should have pushed me to build a Dryad

Just a couple of things I noticed, which you may or may not have considered...

 

Soul Reaver is quite hard to keep "active" for bossfights... even when you get some mobs to follow you so you can reset the soul lifespan, in the lower levels SR will just run out on you, typically 1/2 - 3/4 of the way thru the bossfight, and all of a sudden you cannot hit him, and he hits you (a lot) more often.

I'm not sure if you say that "in absolute" of in regard to my concerns about the zealot mods?

I don't plan to run SR in Boss fight where the boss is not surrounded by minions. For boss fight my plan was to really more heavily on the NN aspect to boost my damages.

The gold mod "wildfire" for Dislodged Spirit I always found underwhelming. Primarily because it is an ice-damage spell, whereas with the Inquisitor, we typically focus on magic or physical, so there is some anti-synergy there. Chattius has suggested the regeneration mod instead, as it will regen 5% + 5%per CA level (so, 10% @ level 1, and 100% of all regeneration times (NOT COOLDOWN! at level 19 DS) I have not been back to the Inquisitor since he posted that, so I have not tested on consoles. But if that is true, then a super-high level Mortifying Pillory could do very serious debuffing, and no need to balance regen time after you get DS up to level 19 (reasonably by char. level 40-50).

That's a quiet serious statement, are you saying that console and PC are different in regard to the wildfire mod? I (plan to) choose those mods after reading the guide "corpse explosion necro caster". The author states that wildfire mod description is broken and instead it adds meaty (really meaty according to his measurement) physical damages.

doubted my eyes at first, but after conducting a test using 2 different hacked level 200 Inquisitors (no equipment & jewelry worn, no attributes allocated, no SB difference), both using gelidity and torture as their bronze & silver mods, but using different gold mods, the damage gap was enormous on their base damages. On another test, I geared 2 different level 200 Inquisitors with ~+90 all skills & Combat Arts, ~+200ish% (x type of damage), then put used an elemental modifier on the equipped weapon to fit the equipped damage type % boni. The result:

 

Dislodged Spirit - gelidity > torture > wildfire - - - nets about ~50k+ damage

Dislodged Spirit - spite > deprivation > stimulate - - - nets about 6-7k damage

 

Advantages: damage is great, you'll never have a problem taking down a boss, even at early game. Killing speed is phenomenal. Outside of boss fights, use this in a combo "IS + DS" touch anything you see and 2 seconds later = instant meat shield.

Disadvantages: its a touch skill, so you'll be living like a during boss fights, which puts you in immediate danger in higher difficulties (dealing with this problem will be discussed further along the guide).

 

I'm indeed not interested in the mod if it works properly especially if I go ranged. As a ranged fighter I will rely on DS a lot less, actually mostly for really tough champions and bosses, so I don't plan to match its duration with other CAs (vs what I would do with a melee build) I planned to maximized its damages. If console version differs in this regard I've to change my plan.

In regard to the "stimulate" mod, it works on console? On the wiki page they state that the mod might be broken.

 

Overall, I planned to use DS for damages but if you confirm me the differences between PC and Console I might maximize its use as a debuff (ie spite/deprivation/stimulate <= if it works that's it).

 

Your "army" combos have IS last in the combos, but as consolers, we can put it first (or 2nd or 3rd) where it is a lot "better" IMO.

Interesting what you say is that if I put IS early on console I'll still execute the other CAs in the combo before IS is "done"? If that's so thanks for the advice, the sooner one critters is incapacitated the better

 

Some food for thought?

Indeed I'm happy I didn't start the build and that's I'm still testing, thanks a lot

I'll wait for your response or test DS mod for my self (even if I mod it first it still can be "long").

[Console Bugs and Glitches Thread]

On the 360 while playing a inquisitor dual wielding staffs I noticed that the second strike of CE can hit opponent way out of range. A bug for sure but a convenient one for sure

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

What kind of gear and smithing?

 

I like the idea of having multi sources of damage from the NN spells and the ranged attacks. Interesting

What kind of Gear and smithing? hum...

Whatever I found, I don't have proper shopper builds or means to share gears with other players. On top of playing on the 360 I don't want to pay for a gold account :5

 

 

I did extra testing with dual wield since my last post. I've to say that whereas it is less comfortable than shooting things in the distance it's more effective. There are multiple reasons:

* I realized than I should not care for staffs and the int modifier, using the best one handed weapons you can find wield better results.

* You have a lot more choice in regard to weapons while dual wielding whereas finding good ranged weapons is plainly tough.

* while dual wielding, CE does hit two times (by the way on 360 there's a bug with staffs too, it affects CE the second hit can hit critters that are out of range). Basically you pretty much CE everything whereas I tend to use RM a lot more with my ranged build.

 

Overall it's impossible for the ranged build to match the damage output of the DW one. Actually it may not be true for the average damage output as you don't have to run after your preys but I still find the build less effective against mobs. On the other hand I feel like the ranged build levels a bit faster

The ranged build faces another disadvantage: being ranged limit the use of "dislodged spirit" as you may want to avoid contact.

 

 

Anyway I think the build should workable using either ranged weapons or Dual wielding as long as you adapt your tactic and the mod (and their ordering).

 

With my test character (@lvl25 now) thus a DW build SR aside I don't have to rely on the NN aspect, I pretty much CE everything. One should act different with a ranged build.

 

Whether I choose ranged or melee, later on I'm to use mostly the same combo and tactic. There are two distinct set of combo I plan to use depending on "mood".

One that I would call "Army raiser"

1)CE+IS on weak critters

3)MP+CE+IS on tougher critters

3)MP+CE+DS+IS on toughest critters

 

The other would be "corpse explosion"

1)CE+ED on weak critters

3)MP+CE+ED on tougher critters

3)MP+DS+CE+ED on toughest critters

 

The fourth slot should be FF+PD in both cases.

 

So due to his lower damage output the ranged build may end more of a army raiser than the melee one, he is likely to need more the extra damage output minions provide and more importantly as it takes down opponents slower minion getting some aggro should help his survivability.

 

I've a more refined take on the mod I should take now and in which order:

 

GI aspect

CE: Bleed/Lacerate/Judgement.

RM: no mod or mod last.

MP: Loathing/Proclamation/Mortify.

FF: Faith/resolve/relentless.

 

PC: Mystic/Eradicate/Hallow or Irune (I'm undecided).

 

we won't use PC early in the character life so, I would take "loathing"(MP) first. It will make MP+CE combo more effective against "tough" critters early on (especially on PC where you have way better control of the critter you engage than on console). Lowering armor should boost damages higher than what the first CE mods offer.

Then I would take two mods for FF so till "resolve" as it will help a lot in situation where SR is no use to boost your attack value.

Then I would completely mod PC.

Then CE completely too.

And lastly I would finish to mod MP and FF.

 

That for the melee build, for the ranged one I would mod, RM first as deprivation is pretty convenient, the slower critters come to you the more hit they receive

 

NN aspect

I've more doubts here

DS: gelidy/torture/wildfire

 

IS: Brunt/Menace/probation for ranged build and Reclaim for the melee one?

 

PD: :)/Decrepit/extension Should I go with lower resistances or attack value? Right now I'm considering Panic. But advices would be welcome

 

ED: Restore/optional/optional I'm sure of first one, as ED has low regen time it will be easy to match its regen time with CE and MP =>10% healed Actually the damages are pretty low and the others mods are not that relevant. If I end up with enough mod points I may mod it for "max" damages (violence/plague).

 

SR: I wonder about giving up on the sealot mods

 

I test my lvl69 ranged Inquisitor running SR (@level 1 with no mod) I didn't have much problem keeping the buff fed.

I can't pass on source as it's my only mean to offset some of the cost of running two high level buffs simultaneously. The loss in attack and defence may be covered by a more extensive use of PD+FF (which I notice I often forget to use...).

 

So I'm wondering between:

Death magic/Source/soul Imbiber for both builds

Death magic/source/zealot for the melee build

zealot/source/soul imbiber for the ranged build.

 

In regard to regen time you might want to match regen time of IS/ED/DS with CE and MP ones (so eat less runes in NN than in GI). For the ranged build DS will be used a lot less so maximizing DS damages is an option

------------------------------

Other than that I gave up on pumping Int for the build. Attributes points should be dispatched according to the builds goals.

*100% vitality for a HC build would make sense.

* Vitality/willpower for a HC build playing Ice and Blood could make sense too.

*Vitality/Stamina for convenience, as you'll end with less dependants on gear for regen time (<= I may go that route).

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

Ok this is how the new build could look:

 

Skills:

1) GI Focus (should be mastered 2nd priority).

2) NN Focus (should be mastered 2nd priority).

3) Armor Lore (should be mastered 3rd priority).

4) Tactic Lore (as high as you can while avoiding diminishing returns => at some point pump up CD).

5) NN Lore (as high as you can while avoiding diminishing returns => at some point pump up CD).

6) Ranged Weapons (spend just enough point to not incur a penalty).

7) Constitution (to be mastered @ lvl75 first priority).

8) Concentration (early on only Soul Reaver will be used, only 1 point till later level).

9) Combat discipline (idem only 1 point till later level).

10) Toughness or SR for survivability.

 

CAs:

 

NN: No change

 

NN <= taken from "corpse explosion necro" build.

DS: Gelidy/Torture/wildfire

IS: Brunt/Menace/Probation

PD: Despair/Decrepit/extension

ED: Restore/Violence/Apocalypse

 

SR: Zealot/Source/Zealot

 

 

GI:

 

CE: Bleed/Lacerate/Draw life (<= as it bypasses resistance)

RM: Deprivation/Dolor/Frenzy

MP: Loathing/Proclamation/Mortify

FF: Faith/resolve/relentless

 

PC: Mystic/Eradicate/Hallow

 

I just changed MP and mod it so it distracts mob from me. I'm not sure it works properly as with my ranged build and lvl38 MP (un mod) the designated target is rarely attacked by other critters. If the test fails... well it will be disgrace" instead of "loathing".

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

Damned I messed up while editing my spelling mistakes...

Double post.

EDIT

 

I played test the game yesterday and Int modifer seems properly applied

 

On the other hand being used to ranged weapon I'm not sure I'll enjoy running after my preys

I switch pretty fast to the first ranged weapon I found, I kill faster no matter the lower damages per hit, I don't have to run after critters or aggregate a mob to be effective. It's too bad that the Ice and wind staffs exploit is not available on console (actually it's a bit cheesy firing "bug-less" staffs would be good enough for me).

 

The whole thing makes me consider a ranged build once again. thing is I build a GI only (no other CAs used, level 70 gold as we speak) ranged Inquisitor and I know its shortcoming, it won't scale you have to use other aspects.

 

I considered improvement for my ranged build but no matter how I turn it I finish thinking that the most scalable has to use three aspects. I don't want, skill points are spread thin, I've access to more CAs than I can map to the pad => I end up with powerful CAs I don't use... For some reason I hate that idea spending point on thing you won't use.

 

Actually it's easier to come up with a pure caster focused exclusively on two aspects (AS/NN) than a meleer/ranged fighter. Anyway I haveto do an arbitration and stick to hit.

 

Both AS and NN on their own compliment a ranged fighter.

 

AS offer a great buff, all the CAs are "ranged" (no contact needed) and affect multiple targets. I can see a lot of synergy between AS and ranged fighter:

*LA affects and weakens a lot of enemies (more than three at a time via RM) as they rush toward you, it will compliment nice RM.

*RT too can be mod to affect and weaken multiple enemies, it also have a defensive value, pushing back opponents is perfect for ranged player who needs time to make up for lower damage output.

*CM let say it has a lot of strategic value

*If you keep it as a spell you can have an incredibly powerful ZD fighting along you (more than the caster ?).

 

On the other side, running two buffs is expansive and those two buffs offer no way to lower their impact on regen times => You become really depend on gear, CM becomes all too tempting as it takes down a lot on foes at once and your attacking (as well as defence actually) is low.

Overall GI is likely to become the support aspect for the build which is not bad per se but not what I would want.

 

NN The buff is less powerful but it's a bit of a default choice, it doesn't offer the protection and damage output of RP but that the only way you have to up your attack and defence values and lower your regen.

CAs compliment a lot less the ranged gameplay as AS CAs.

*DS requires contact which reduces a lot its usefulness for a ranged fighter (still great for boss/champion).

*IS is nice but as it locks down a single encounter for a while it also let you "defenceless" for ~10s. On the other hand minions collect aggro offering "protection" for a build not good at handling big mobs.

*ED can add some Area of Effect damages which a build focusing on GI/NN would miss otherwise. It can heal the caster. But it's tricky to use (on console) and I don't expect it to offer much as far as damage output is concern.

*PD (is buggy on console so has to be used carefully) has a nice synergy with the build and FF.

Whereas it won't take down a mob like CM is offers a defence against it, it lower its damages output (they will attack less often). You would want to mod it to instil ear to your opponent, they'll fly away from you but as your a ranged warrior... not fast enough .

Shortly in combo with FF, it's useful in many way.

 

Overall, the damage output should be lower than a GI/AS build but the build should do better against potent single target. The NN will benefit to a way lower extend of the benefit of the PC purge mod (LA and RP with the mod "Sphere" seem to benefit a lot from it). Offence is the best defence NN won't let you kill mobs as well the CAs of the AS aspect (CM especially) but it still covers some aspects/weakness.

 

More importantly (for me not in absolute) it doesn't out-shine the GI aspect while taking away the gameplay I pursue. I could also say that Chattius is right (not surprising ) once you start using the dark side of the force extensively the AS aspect, it makes more sense to use all three aspects and to give up as well on the ranged weapons.

 

So I think I'll settle for GI/NN as well as as giving up on melee (which by the way makes the title of this very thread obsolete... ).

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

An english short description of one of the most read inquisitor guides in german sacred forum:

Black hole to bundle - Polearm to finish Build

 

Perhaps you get some more ideas from it, you play console so you have no use of alchemy, but this would free a skill for nether lore which the above build doesn't have.

Thanks for your help, I read about this build already and it's really to bad alchemy is not a option on the 360 It brings quiet some boost to the class.

 

I love pole arm too but I don't know I use them often for my ranged Inquisitor as due to some bugs some (flying most often) creatures are almost impossible to hit. Pole arms in those case do pretty well as they benefit from my build high dex, and the range is...

 

Still I want to try something else, I'll create a character or two tonight to see if the int bonus looks properly applied on the 360 whether you wield one or two staffs, if yes I'll go with staves

(possibly dual wield for the flexibility).

 

By the way I know you have extensive knowledge of Sacred 2 (read quiet some of your posts and guides), do you know the answer to my last question (about how "xx lore" affects (or not) CAs secondary damages (related to mods)?

 

Thank for the help

 

EDIT

 

I missed you response So I've to invest more points in a "weapon skill". Thank

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

OK I already have some others questions...

 

Do CAs like CE, RM, MP have a built in attack value like "magic coup"?

I ask because that would help me to save skill points and as opposed to Kudo25 build I should rely a lot less on standard attacks.

 

I also have another question in regard to "xxx" lores and damages bonus they grant as opposed to the damages granted by combat discipline.

Tactic lore ups the amount of life leech by properly mod CAs as CE or RM, Combat discipline doesn't.

Is the same true for other CAs? I'll use an example, does NN lore ups the damages done by the "torture" mod for dislodged spirit? (I know CD won't).

 

 

I ask before once again that may allow me to save quiet some skill points.

using Kudos25 formatting the build could looks like this @level 75:

 

Level 75: 296 Points Total

 

NN lore: 50

Tactic Lore: 50

Weapon skill: 1

Armor Lore: 18

concentration:1

Constitution: 75

NN focus: 50

GI focus: 50

Combat discipline: 1

Spell Resistance: 1

 

296 points in total, do you (dear members) see something wrong with this?

[Advices For A Melee Inquisitor]

Hi,

 

I'm done for now with my GI/ranged Inquisitor for various reasons.

 

I'm considering starting a new melee one.

I plan to pass completely on AS for various reasons (when I say pass it's "pass" I won't read a single read for those CAs), so the focus should be on NN and GI. I'm in search for various advices.

 

 

 

Disclaimers / Goals for the build:

 

* I read all the guide already but it didn't made me any better at building characters (or not ).

 

* I'm playing on 360, so feat like Alchemy, Blacksmith are no accessible to me. I may have to deal with bugs no longer affecting PC renditions of the game (paralysing dread comes to mind).

 

* I don't have access to the extension, I plan to rush to niob but I should not face the destructive CAs you people are facing on PC.

 

* I don't want my build to be a glass cannon.

 

* I don't want to depend on gear.

 

* It's not a hardcore build (I intend not to die but I don't care if it happens, I tend to be distracted some times and to die stupidly, on top of it there's no pause on consoles).

 

--------------------------

Ok let move to my concerns.

 

First focussing on GI/NN I plan to use both weapon and non weapon based CAs =>

 

First concern how should I deal with the attributes and weapon choices.

 

Dex and Int are the highest Inquisitor attributes, should I try to benefit from that by using weapons that make the most of those attributes?

1) Pole arms use dex as a modifier.

2) short swords/daggers as a modifier.

3) Staffs Int for damage modifier only.

 

Here my thoughts:

1&2) dex is the modifier for both the damage and hit chance, but I should not care for the latter as various CAs and Buffs should do the job in this regard.

 

2) short swords/daggers have low range, which may prevent me to do the most of CAs like RM.

 

2) Short sword can be dual wield (always convenient)

 

 

=> going for staves sounds like the most interesting option if one is only to consider the synergy between attributes and damages.

 

Questions:

.Does this work properly on 360 (both as single weapon or dual wielding)?

.Would you go with the magic staffs skill or dual wield one (ie do staffs "un-lockable" properties are worth the lost sockets?)?

.Overall I should not care for this synergy and choose my weapon based on other criteria (available unique items, range, un-lockable properties, etc.). If so may you give me some advices on the matter.

 

Sum-up depending on the answer I'll see how I balance my attribute point between vitality and int/dex/str, I'm leaning toward 1 point in vitality @ every level and put what left into int.

 

Second concern the skills choices:

 

Here my ideas (pretty standard I guess)

 

NN Lore

Tactic Lore

concentration

Armor lore

constitution

NN Focus

GI Focus

Combat discipline

SR

CR

 

EDIT something is wrong above I forgot the weapon skill so Cr is on its way out

 

What do you think about it? Any advice on ordering? Which Skills would you master first? (that's the part where usually I've trouble with the few builds I made, I'm not focus enough...). The only one I'm sure about is constitution I want it mastered @75lvl.

 

 

 

Third concern the mods for CAs.

 

Not realy a concern actually I plan to take from various guides

 

NN <= taken from "corpse explosion necro" build.

DS: Gelidy/Torture/wildfire

IS: Brunt/Menace/Probation

PD: Despair/Decrepit/extension

ED: Restore/Violence/Apocalypse

 

SR: Zealot/Source/Zealot

 

 

GI:

 

CE: Bleed/Lacerate/Draw life (<= as it bypasses resistance)

RM: Ire/Dolor/Frenzy

MP: Disgrace/Proclamation/Mortify

FF: Faith/resolve/relentless

 

PC: Mystic/Eradicate/Hallow

 

---------------------------

 

Play style.

 

Basically I use this two guides for this build:

The corpse explosion necro caster

and

Offensive melee Inquisitor

 

The play style should closer to the second build ie an executioner (that's one of the reason why I pass on AS all together, I don't feel like giving a "jedi" twist to my killer).

 

First due to diminishing returns and the fact that I've to save points for other skills I can't 200 points into multiple skills. I've to put point equally in the NN and GI skills (4 skills). I decide to invest a skill slot and skill points into combat discipline. I'm not a combo person (I like simple build) but whereas tactic lore boost damages on every single blown, CD boosts damages passively for all my CAs. So it's a trade off I make, my base attack may do lower damage but I can shift between more CAs which damages are boosted.

 

I can to the same conclusion in regard to Concentration, having more regen power will allow me to read more runes and rip more benefit for SR and PC as well as making the build less gear dependant.

 

For combos:

FF/PD

MP/CE/RM

DS/IS/ED

 

I'm planning to start the build tonight, but really advices are really welcome, I can't do thing wrong in early level but I really need help to the dispatch of the skills point.

 

Many thanks

 

 

EDIT: I changed my mind and decided to stick with a ranged build focusing on the same aspects GI/NN.

[2 - Hander for Gruesome?]

The 35% is from both, mastery in Toughness and around level 80 PC, with Gruesome Inquisition Focus Mastery I will hopefully get a good mitigation boost and hopefully get over 40% in total.

You chose "Irune" as gold mod, right?

[Lady in Black, the unknown member of MiB]

Looks like an awesome built. Powerful and focusing and being viable (latter on) while relying on one single aspect, kudos

 

I'm willing to try it.

[Sacred 2 Guides - Ranged Inquisitor]

Interesting I started a build a bit like this one a while ago but I choose to focus on Gruesome Inquisition and only Gruesome Inquisition (ie I don't learn/use CA from other aspects).

It's too bad I didn't find you post a long time ago as I restarted the build more than once

 

Anyway I've a question in regard to Ruthless Mutilation which is indeed critical to the build:

 

For the bronze I went with deprivation (vs extra damages) as it makes the whole thing way more comfortable (early in the game you can run around the mob) and the effect scales as you're leveling. (I don't want either to be stuck using weapons dealing ice damages).

 

For silver I chose Dolor too, the life leech effect adds some extra damages and seems triggered all the time

 

The real question is for the gold mod, I chose Smolder which works well for me as I mod PC to boost fire damages. But I could have take another road as Frenzy should allow for more damages but (1billion dollars question):

 

Does range weapons allow for double hits?

 

 

I've more generic question about my build (which is "close" to your's).

First a quick sum-up of my build:

9 critical skills: Tactic Lore(M) / GI Focus(M) / Ranged Weapon / Armour lore(M) / Constitution(M) / Toughness (M)/ Spell Resistance / Combat reflexes / Damage lore.

1 skill slot opened

Mostly the same mods as the ones you chose

Attributes: Stamina/Vitality

 

So here comes the question, it's about encounter defence and especially their chances to reflect damages:

 

1)My CAs are considered ranged weapons, right? So I should not be bothered by critters that have chance to reflect Spells:melle damages right?

 

2) Do I have a way to protect my-self against those reflected damages? Is it consider a spell (damage reflection) and Spell resistance helps or I'll have to live with it?

NB I know Shuriken can somehow be a work around but they not optimal in range and overall damages. Actually shurikens are my favoured weapons because they are less affected by terrain and but they fell short against Energy weapon damage and range and pistols piercing properties.

[Inquisitor - "corpse Explosion" Necro (Caster)]

Focusing on Int and Vit makes sense, how come you want to put points into Willpower though? Spell resistance isn't really an issue before Ice and Blood, which since I assume you play xbox means you wont have to worry about. I would suggest either continuing to focus on the two or in the end putting the points into Int only once you get constitution mastery or feel that you dont need the extra health.

Thanks

[Inquisitor - "corpse Explosion" Necro (Caster)]

I'm actually following this guide and so far I'm pretty happy with it

 

The build is way more powerful than the last Inquisitor I built which was a weird experiment (a ranged GI only build really exclusive no CA learnt from the others aspects).

 

I'm just taking some freedom in regard to attribute. I'm doing Int and Vit alternately right now (still only one point per level). Once I've 2 points per level I think I'll invest one point in willpower every level and alternate between Vit and Int. Latter on I think that depending on my success I'll give up on Vit and focus on Willpower and Int.

 

Do yu think that this should be ok?