Silver_fox
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It's a very interesting and in-depth research that might be useful for people playing mage characters, especially as they progress through the game and decide how to apply points at current level and which equipment to choose. For me it looks like a solid way to compare items with different bonuses (answering questions like 'would I get a bigger boost if I equip an item with +Lore Skill or the one with +Intelligence?' or 'Can I recompense for taking off +Skill items by sinking points into certain stats?') and to choose which stats to modify at levelup ('Would I notice the benefit of additional Intelligence or it is better to invest in Stamina at this point?'). That is, of course, if you are willing to do math.
The big downside of this writeup is the translation. It is extremely word-to-word and oftenly wrong meanings of the words were used (constant usage of 'meaning' instead of 'value' - these words are homonymous in russian). I wonder if it would be better if your acquaintance sends you the russian original and I translate it into english.
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I changed JPGs for GIFs on a couple of set pages and everything looks fine. It appears that GIFs are free to go.
The ones I changed were Equilibrium and http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Megalcarwen%27s_Garments_of_Mutation
Please check if everything looks OK for you.
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I saw this topic, but could not find a single glitch on the wiki itself, which is why I proposed to try using GIFs again. I guess, we can just try it out - I'll do the GIF stats for Megalcarwen's set and we'll see how they would look. Also, I remember saving stat GIF with transparency and interlacing turned off - removing transparency makes them a bit smaller and removing interlacing does not really increase filesize for something of 8KB. If you think that interlacing is to blame, turning it off for such images would change filesize only a fraction of KB so it should not really matter.
You know, Schot, I played a bit with GIF saving - and for simple images interlace only increases the filesize. That set bonus image I showed you before is 10.13 KB with interlace and 10.01 without. So, I guess, removing interlace might be a way to eliminate the problem. (I'm saving for web in Photoshop, by the way.)
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Here is the link to localized texts if you need them:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B_TBVBAeWVRnSlZWNUFJNDRxSXc/edit?usp=sharing
They are not THE very last version, as I collected all localizations for previous versions of CM patch, but not for the current one. So these files are patched to v120 or v130 (can't recall which one exactly). On other hand, all vanilla texts are there, and CM texts are still work in progress and subject to change anyway.
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An old thread, by I still decided to add my two cents worth.
Chattius is completely right about the Elf - she does have a phrase along the lines of "More enemies! Bring me more of them! I have five-year-old plan to fulfill!" in all languages I know of (much to my surprise) and it is a reference to Soviet economy (at least everybody who knows some details about the Union takes it as such). Geez, these plans managed to become a sort of trademark feature of communist economy - I remember several other games that referenced them.
Actually, the only reason I never brought this one before, is exactly how much on spot this reference is. You know, I'm russian, so of course I first heard this phrase in the russian version of the game - and the text sounded so obvoiusly Soviet-specific that it never crossed my mind that those were the German developers who brought it to the game. I always thought it was something that russian localizers inserted, probably to replace some other joke russian people would have failed to get. But as it is present in other locales, this phrase is an Easter Egg to be filed alongside the one about Berlin Wall. And to think that it was said by an Elf... we now know which of Tyr Lysia and Artamark is meant to represent which part of Germany.
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Thank you for your suggestion, Flix, I'll keep it in mind. As of now, I'll start on my own (by editing my own past contributions) and see how it goes. Thing is, there are a lot of item pages that can use new stat pictures - most of Uniques, all Unlocks and some Legendaries - about 200 (yeah, two hundred, probably more) total. At the first glance it looks like enough work for everyone, especially considering that GIFs are only good looking when they are custom-tailored (if you simply save a screenshot as GIF without editing, its 256 color limitation would show its downside). On the other hand, once I make a couple os stat GIFs, I'll have a solid template for them and the rest would be fast to make (It was this way with set stats, that are heavily edited, but after the first few were very easy to do). So the best way seems to start and see how fast I'd be a getting them done and how fast they would be at getting on my nerves. If I find myself being too slow or get tired of looking at similar pictures for days on end, I'd let you know. Besides, you probably have other ongoing projects or just ideas you want to implement and they should have priority over re-doing something that already exists.I support your idea to make new images, and to make GIF the standard format for images with stats/text. I can help if you want.
The question is, was it really worth having shabby looking images? Saving 60k, even a thousand times over, is only 60MB.
That's an old question and I remember myself and Schot discussing it for quite some time... to little actual result. Sacred Wiki is very picture-heavy resource, which on one hand demands those picture to be smaller on order to make pages load faster, on the other hand - it is exactly graphic side of the wiki that first catches reader's eye and defines the first impression. And, sadly, if the quality of these pictures is lacking, the first impression is that the contributing team is lacking editing qualities and can't make these things better... which is as far from being true as it can get. What's worse, our subject does nothing to redeem the situation - I mean, Sacred is not WoW or Diablo or DOTA - so people sort of expect that a not-so-hyped-up title of dubious reputation would have nobody but a couple of crazy freaks caring about it. It would have been really cool if wiki was able to change this opinion, like people seeing very well-done site and thinking that a game that has such talented community must have something to it.
Sorry, I digressed. I always wondered if it's worth trying to save space by reducing quantity, not quality. Mind you, I'm not proposing to reduce the amount of images, by maybe reducing the filesize by lowering picture's resolution instead of over-compressing it is a viable solution? I mean, some time ago Schot said that the wiki is meant to be viewed at 1280 width, so do we really need to have full HD pics stored? The quest template is meant to display camera images with no more than 400px width, so I guess that 640x480 or even less is enough for pictures uploaded for this purpose (nice to have it a bit bigger for those who couldn't quite puzzle the picture out on quest page and went to image page for details, but no use making it bigger than preview wiki generates here). What do you think? Can such approach be used for having crisp and clear images without demanding too much space?
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The only benefit would be to replace png with jpg but in order to maintain contribution credit I would need editors to update their own images.
That is exactly why I resurrected this thread. I'll do it for the sets and quest dialogs would take care of themselves as we apply the new Template. I know there were other contributors who won't do it as they are not currently around, but I can at least clean up after myself. Might as well replace JPGs to GIFs for item stat images - they are smaller and look the same if not better.
Can you link to jpgs that you suspect looked better in the past please? I have all images backed up from before I ran the batch process. I'm curious about how much change occured.
The one that tipped me, personally, was this one:
http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/File:Megalcarwen_bonus.jpg
Not a horrendous image, but quite messy and reported filesize is 89KB.
The one I have on harddrive looks like this:
The filesize is... 88KB! Means, no space saved.
Not that I encourage you to run a restoration with any of my files, as I intend to replace them anyway (GIFs for such images weight about 8-9KB and that IS some improvement).
The ones Flix listed were exceptionally hurt by the conversion - mostly because they were quite bad to begin with and the change made them illegible. In fact, I'm thinking about undertaking a project to make new images for Unique items - for some of those picture replacing them is the only way to make a difference. Not sure how good of idea it is though, but if you won't be able to do a thing about the current quality in may be necessary.
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How about a Hermit index page of all NPC's named Hermit which would list them all with a prefix or suffix and do the like for all other same named NPC's with regards to dialogues. Sound good?
I can't come up with a better solution, because removing a part of neatly wrapped up template to make people manually insert an NPC link does not sound all that nice, especially considering how much work went into making this template as neat as in is. So maybe we should have something like those 'disambiguation pages' Wikipedia has (the ones that begin with 'the thing you looked for can also mean:'). The one big problem of such solution is that the main reason for linking NPC pages is so that the reader can learn where this NPC is and what he/she looks like. With a big page listing characters of the same name that differ only by location, the reader has to know where and what this NPC is to be able to choose the one he/she needs. So, if a person is able to choose the correct Hermit from the list of all Hermits in Ancaria, this person already knows so much he doesn't need to see this NPC page. To add insult to ingury, when we made the quest template, we decided not to insert pictures of NPC locations into the walkthrough as they are already present on NPC pages (which IS a good decision, for inserting them all into the quest page would be just too much with lengthy quests). So, good navigation to NPC pages becomes essential. You can argue that before the Dialogue Template appered readers could find the NPC pages through context links and this method still works just as fine. The trouble is that these big, good-looking clickable Dialogues are so much easier to notice than some link lost inside a wall of text - the reader's attention is effectively drawn there. Geez, I know what I'm saying as not so long ago I actually tired to click on one of these Hermits to look up the exact name of his page (I was quoting him for Star Wars Easter Eggs). And one would think I should have known better...
Long story short - we would have more than a few readers ending up on these listing pages and unsure how to choose from the list. So if we don't want these readers to be lost, such a page should be not a simple list but a Comprehensive Guide to the Hermits of Ancaria.
On a side note, I saw that Flix already uploaded english version of decoded global.res, so I don't have to do it. But is anyone interested in the other languages? Can be useful if you suddenly run into a page with Spanish screenshots (like I did with Finally Rich (Shadow) - by the way, am I the only one who thinks that this page doesn't match the naming standart?) or if you want to make translated version of the wiki. Not much chances for either situation though.
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Sorry, gogo, but I would have to ask you to read the question again. I do understand that your character's phrases get 'The Player' as caption, but what can be done about NPCs whose names in game do not match the names of respective wiki pages (happens with generic, repetative NPC names)?
The best illustration of what I ask about in this quest: Daemonic Rituals. It has three (!) different NPCs who are called 'Hermit' and that is how they are captioned in game. But they have three different NPC pages on the wiki. So the quest dialogues should be made to point to different pages while having the same caption.
On a side note, I found one more Star Wars easter egg while looking at those hermits (the first of them obviously quotes Obi-Wan Kenobi).
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Thank you, gogo (both for restoration of my editing superpowers and for the warm welcome)!
Now I'll bring the topic back... well, to the topic. I decided to go through the quest pages I did before to apply this new template (and rid the wiki of some heavy PNG dialogues), and already ran into a small issue. The template leaves no opportunity to change the NPC name (it automatically assumes that the name in game matches the title of respective wiki page) which is a bit troublesome in case of side quest NPCs with generic names like Kobold or Soldier (and there are a whole lot of such guys). They all have their own NPC pages titled with location suffix (for example, right now I'm working with this one: Kobold Chieftain - Happy Cow Farm). So what should be put as the dialog caption? Writing it the way it is in game would result in either red or misleading link (with the example above it would link you to the random enemy). Writing it the way it is in the database is even worse... So can you please add the opportunity to use aliases for these NPC links, or suggest some workaround.
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I checked those pages you listed and started to suspect something... So I went through some of Unique listings (such as All Classes Uniques and High Elf Uniques for comparison) and noticed two things that surprised me quite a lot:
1. I swear to the God above, these pictures didn't look that bad two years ago! Granted, they weren't perfect, but they were readable. This quality change is a strange thing to notice as the pictures are obviously the same. At first I thought I was mistaken and my memory fails me, but I checked CM patch Unique page - and the pictures there don't match the quality that was uploaded. What's worse, filesizes don't seem any smaller than they were, so quality change gives us nothing positive.
2. There are quite a few pictures that still look perfectly clear and a nice as you please - Slicing Scythe and Shugrok's Illusion for example. All of those pages have either PNG (as in the first case) or GIF (as in the second) for stat pictures.
Summing up: What is wrong with JPGs nowadays? Does it mean that we should remake Unique, Legendary and Set item pages using GIF files in order for the stats to be clearly readable? After all those are the pages that get a lot of visitors (maybe the most visited on the wiki) so they should look good enough.
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As far as batch-converting goes, it surely was not completed for PNGs (at least the ones I brought up are still there), but I wonder if something along those lines was applied to some JPGs. I was checking set pages for Mutation sets - main pictures are still the same large PNGs but JPGs that were used to display stats of Glimborin's Garments of Mutation: http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Glimborin%27s_Garments_of_Mutation and some others look distorted. I'd like somebody else to check them, but in the images displayed for me the amount of JPG artifacts and color noise is so big the text is not entirely clear. Versions of these images that I have sitting on my hard drive don't look like that, so I guess it might be a result of some optimization done by the wiki. Pages that were done with GIF images for stats (like Arbereth's Garments of Mutation: http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Arbereth%27s_Garments_of_Mutation) look perfectly fine, but JPG ones are a bit messy. This is another reason why I thought of re-uploading some images - as GIFs are both smaller and better-looking, I'd rather make all set pages have them.
By the way, why is the forum refusing to link those pages when I try to insert the links using 'Sacred 2 Wiki' tag? I know that ' (%27) symbol is what breaks it, but I have a feeling it worked better before.
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A bit of necromancy with an old thread...
Now I have a zombie topic to ask one question: With that anti-PNG campaign that you a running, what should be done about existing files of that extention? In the days past I was as entusiastic about them as Schot was (if not more) so I'm guilty of bringing quite a few weighty PNGs to the wiki. I still have all the files I was working with, so I can resave those images into slim JPGs and reupload, if you'd like me to.
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Greetings to all SacredWiki members, old familiar faces and newcomers alike!
After a long time of absence I dropped by to look up a few facts on the wiki. I should have known better! I noticed all amazing new things that were added since my last visit - a lot of hard work done exceptionally well by Knuckles, new original ideas by Flix and valuable contributions by all the others - and of course I felt a certain editing itch. Now I don't think I would be able to stop myself from helping you again, maybe not on a daily basis, but who knows...
Now, to the point of why I am posting here of all places. Your hard work with dialogs is noticeable and the results are impressive, but now I wonder if you are really going to retype all this tremendous lot of text by hand. The first thing that came to my mind is that there is a way to reduce the recreation of quest dialogs to a matter of copy and paste. With all modders around, it's a bit strange that noone suggested extracting the dialog texts from main global.res file which contains all in-game texts (if somebody had actually suggested it before and this idea was declined, I apologize for bringing it again). Granted, extracting exactly all texts for a specific quest requires some knowledge of how quests are scripted, but it can be done (you can try asking marcuswob about this). Or you can simply decompile the global.res into one big text file and then use find option to locate the dialog you need and copy it (it would require you to type the first couple of words into a search box, but it's better then typing the whole dialog). I know that CM-patch devs did not want such resource files to be entirely public, but there is nothing bad in allowing few wiki members have access to them. I used to have such big file with all in-game texts in it. I'd share it if you think it can speed your work up. At the very least, I think I should handle the dialogs for CM-patch quests as I already have them all extracted or typed.
Also, there is one qiuestion I have about using the template - what should be used as a caption for phrases said by a playable character? In actual game you see character's name there, so of course screenshots on the wiki show a variety of names chosen by contributors for their chars. But as a template is a more universal thing, it should be impersonal. So do we link a class name to these dialogs (using 'Seraphim' or 'High Elf' instead of character's actual name), or is there other idea?
The last point to mention is that the template really does need some ability to add buttons. Maybe optional, as most of the dialogs are of standart Accept/Decline/OK variety, but it is needed, for I recall a few quests with customized button captions (Wolfie's 'Ancient Secrets' is the first to come to my mind) and a few more that can not be declined (they use OK template instead of Accept/Decline).
P.S. It seems that with all changes the wiki went through, my login had expired. Can you please restore it (if you don't mind me hanging around, of course).
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Hey, Knuckles, is your new project about aplying the new quest template and adding the missing images to old quest pages? I just saw your recent edits on the wiki and it really looks like that. If that's right that this project is going to be quite a big one as the quests are very multiple. I was doing quite the same thing some time ago. The difference is that I was aspiring to change all images for the ones of better quality and also edited the text to make a storytelling a bit better. Thus I was doing a lot of work that wasn't adding much to the wiki... which is why I put this project on hold and switched to the pages about new CM content. The thing is that I have quite a lot of pictures that I prepared for the quests but never got to uploading. Maybe I should dust them off and finally upload to the wiki so that you won't have to do the work that is already half-done? I started to gather the images after my character left Sloeford and I have them prepared for most of the quests in the Western Tyr Lysia (west of Thylysium). So if you want me to help you I can take this part of the job.
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All set items you mentioned can drop from monsters and as a quest reward. All you need to do to get them drop is to install the CM patch. The Download button that can be seen on the Wiki is for those players who don't want to wait for the items to drop in game - they can download a chest that contains the items that were gathered by other players. But if you download a chest that contains some items from CM patch, you need to install the patch in order for items to appear in these chests. To put it simple - if you downloaded and installed the CM patch, you don't have to download anything else to see the items, but if you downloaded any of CM patch chests, you have to download and install the CM patch.
By the way, if you play the Seraphim, you would see items from these set dropping quite often, but only after your character reached level 15. As for the Redeemer, at the moment it doesn't have its own quest, so it drops just like any other Legendary (which means that it drops rarely and only from bosses).
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File Name: New Set Items from CM Patch v130
File Submitter: Silver_fox
File Submitted: 28 Nov 2011
File Category: Community Patch Mixed Items
This chest contains new set items that were added to the game with CM patch v130. These are two weapon-based sets and 8 Gemmae.
Weapon sets:
- Remnants of Drizzt: Set for all characters based on Dual Wielding. There are two versions on this set in the chest - one of item level 35 and other of item level 85. Both versions are from Silver difficulty.
- Memories of the Trees: Set for blowpipe wielding Dryad. There are two versions on this set in the chest - one of item level 40 and other of item level 80. Both versions are from Silver difficulty.
Gemmae:
All Gemmae are from Gold difficulty, so all the Sigils have defensive bonuses in addition to armor. As the Sigils can spawn with random bonuses, there are several versions of each Sigil in the chest (with different defensive bonuses).
- BerDaiPayn, SinIthTer and KilthEmAl : there are two versions of these sets in the chest - one of item level 82 and another of item level 91.
- YerLuvVun, DisTrukXion, ImMorTel : there are two versions of these sets in the chest - both are of item level 91, but the Sigils have different defensive bonuses.
- TomMarVolOryDel, KlaAtuVerAtaNikTuh : there are three versions of these sets in the chest - all Sigils are of item level 91, but have different defensive bonuses.
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Thank you for showing me this thread, gogo (and for starting it too). I wasn't on the boards when it came out, so I missed it. I'm not going to revive it today, but maybe we will have another opportunity to remember Drizzt's set when I post the chest with it. I was going to upload a chest with all sets from v130, but never got to it as I needed to hunt down some more Sigils.
I'm sorry for not showing up for some time, but my real life was quite complicated this autumn. It was in September when I faced a nasty monster known as Chronic fatigue syndrome. I'm dealing with this thing for three years already, but usually I manage to keep a safe distance from it. However, this summer I had to work hard and overworked myself, so the CFS monster was able to get closer and turn me into a zombie (well, maybe I'm exaggerating a bit, but when you constanly feel tired and under the weather, when you are braindead and unwilling to do a thing, you're quite close to being a zombie). As a result, I had to spend two months dealing with docs and swallowing up health potions. Now I'm feeling more or less alive, so I'm going to be more active. However, I still find it hard to motivate myself, so you would probably have to kick me from time to time if you want to see the things done. OK, rant is over, going back to the wiki stuff.
As I'm still not feeling well (it would probably take me one more month to recover), I would prefer picture-heavy projects over text-heavy ones. I'm planning to get all the Sigils and make pages for Sigil sets as my current wiki project. I started doing it back in September, but put it on hold. Now is the time to resume working on it.
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Welcome back, Knuckles! It's really great to see you again and I'm looking forward to your new project. Your pages are always interesting to look at and they are a great source of inspiration for me. It's also good to hear that you finally have some time to rest and do the things you like to do. Switching to another activity is proven to be a good way to rest, but please try not to exhaust yourself.
I wasn't exactly active recently (I have to admit that I wasn't active at all), but now I have an opportunity to return. Hopefully, I'll be able to do more things for the wiki and to finally finish the pages I promised you long time ago.
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Sorry, it looks like I forgot to add one more item for the Seraphim. Pulse of time (Gloves from Sopor Aethernis set) also has Combat Art Range modifier. But I believe this is the only item that is missing from the list.
By the way, is there a reason why you preferred Faladal's set over Nine Hells for your Meteor Shower build?
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It's quite strange that for the seraphim you got 2 Nlovae's and the Sigil set, yet forgot about Virtues of the Seraphim set, that has Combat Art Range as a completion bonus for 6 items.
Most of my Seraphim builds use Flaring Nova and I always try to increase its radius as much as possible. My current seraphim is only level 50 now and is wearing Virtues set and KilthEmAl sigil set to get CA Range bonus for Novas. I can say that I feel the difference even without dual-wielding Nlovae's and on low levels. Maybe the difference is not drastic, but it comes at no price, as items from the Virtues set are quite a good thing to wear for a low-level seraphim (at least for melee and hybrid ones) and Sigil sets give bonus even when they aren't in the active slot.
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Normally, the quest should end after talking with Toren in Bluestonbury, and for the Light path characters it really ends there. However, for the Shadow path characters the quest glitches and asks to escort the botanist to the Dryad Island as the next quest part. It's nothing more than a bug that wasn't expected to happen. Now the CM patch team is working on this issue. Hopefully, in the next version of the patch the quest would end normally for all characteres.
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Actually there is a general limit to the level of items that a character can equip. Level 200 character can equip items no higher than level 252, regardless of Item Lore level (this limit is true not only for armor, but also for weapons and jewelry). So you can consider level 252 a cut off for general items. But when we are talking about set items, uniques and legendaries, the actual limit would be somewhat lower. The reason is that these items have so called 'leveljump' characteristic, which defines the levels that are possible for the item. The item with leveljump 15 can spawn only at item levels 15, 30, 45 and so on. Most set items have leveljump of 15, which explains why most set items on the wiki are of level no higher than 225 (theoretically, level 240 should be possible too, but you would doubtedly ever get it to spawn). However, some set items have leveljump of 12 or 20, which changes the possible highest level.
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While I was searching the regions and doing a speed run through the campaign to unlock the other regions, I have encountered a problem because of the editing needed to get this information as accurate as possible. The bosses for some reason, cannot be hit at all!
I have a 95-100% hit chance on monsters 16 levels higher then me. So I am going to see about going through the desert to have access to the other areas. Since it is likely I cannot complete the main campaign, I might not be able to complete certain regions in Bronze and Silver. If there is a line to edit to unlock the other difficulties, please let me know! 
All bosses have higher defence values than normal enemies, so you'd have a low chance to hit them. However, you can get the said chance to hit the bosses by editing balance.txt a bit more. Try to modify the following lines (that's a modified version for Singleplayer):
MP_damage = {1,1050,1100,1160,1220}, MP_combatvalue = {1,1100,1210,1330,1460}, MP_lifeHP = {1,1300,1650,2100,2650}, MP_EShieldHP = {1,1300,1650,2100,2650}, MP_armor = {1,1100,1210,1330,1460},This modification will allow you to kill any creature including bosses with one hit and never get hit back. I found out these strings when I needed to kill bosses with low-level character, so the modification is proven to work.
Also, could this be done in Open private game?
Since the multiplayer island has a portal room to all regions, we might be able to get some volunteers!
This can be done, but you should be the one to start the game, because the Open game uses the same scripts as the person who started it. Also, if you want to play Open with modified balance.txt, you should edit all values in the brackets to make the changes apply for any number of players on the server.
I hope what I am doing is ok with you guys...
What you're doing is not OK, it's GREAT! It's really cool to see new people on the wiki.
New Uniques and Legendaries - Brainstorming
in Sacred 2 Modding
Posted
Wow! You definitely have a great bunch of high-quality additions in the works. That leather set for High Elf is already enough to make me want to try your mod when it is finished. That's not to mention that getting new sets for poor DM is a very attractive prospect (is was always quite sad that getting good armor for him was harder than for the others simply because he had less such armor made for him). And item stats look good either (many user-made items tend to be overpowered game-breakers, but your versions don't seem over-the-top).
My personal request would be for more unique lightsabers, CM-patch style (I mean, willpower based, as lightsabers are in CM). There was such request already, but I wanted to say that I'm seconding it. I know, many people don't welcome tech stuff in game, but lightsabers are already present and quite noticeable, so adding a bit more should not hurt. Besides, Star Wars is not hardcore sci-fi, but science fantasy that fits OK with both genres (after all, Sacred 1 had lightsaber-wielding Ice Elves who didn't seem out of place). After CM changed these swords to willpower, it opened more possibilities for builds. For example, I ran a Jedi seraphim built aroung NIFs and Warding Energy buff. She was fun to play, but undertaking a certain quest and bothering Frank each time I wanted to upgrade my weapons... *facepalm* With more lightsabers worthy of wielding, experimentiong with willpower-based characters would be more interesting.
One more question (not request) - have you thought about merging your mod into next CM when it will be released? It's really cool that now you are independent and have something to offer and try out already, but what would happen when next CM happens? Granted, CM devs are not very active, but they work on several things, so sooner or later v150 would be released. Then you would have to re-do quite some work updating itemlists, droplists and global.res again. Speaking of global.res, are you working only with the english one? How would your mod behave on other locales (english item names or blank/tagged strings)?