Silver_fox
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Posts posted by Silver_fox
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Sorry Silver. I was in the middle of writing my above post so didn't see this one of yours. No need to get too excited about the picture thing. ^^ I see your point. Let me see if I can find a compromise for us. I have an idea... I'll get back to this later today.
Sorry. I really got carried away. That's my professional issues. Some things about building user interfaces (and a web page is a user interface of sorts) tend to annoy me.
By the way, both names for double-named persons really are on the wiki pages. For example, searching for 'High Nobility Spy' would get you to the bestiary, while searching for 'Aristocratic Spy' would get you to the NPC page. Thanks to [[ | ]].
That's one of the first rules of a database-building: You should never have two physical instances of the same entity. If you need to name one entity differently, you should create one physical instance and just use it with various aliases (in our case the link's caption can be considered an alias of an actual page).
I'm not trying to say that my initial idea was the best. I'm pretty sure, in the end, we'd come up with a better thing.
Sorry. Looks like I got carried away again.
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There's so many pages to create for the wiki, one day when all the baseline stuff is created there will easily be a few years for reverse review
gogo
So the rewiew would never be done, because the wiki staff would be either writing stuff about Sacred 3, or if this game would be uninspiring, would choose another goal. After all the Sacred 1 wiki section is still almost empty, since Sacred 2 demends a lot of attention.
I might just move all the quest bosses from the boss page over to the quest boss page. It's double listing them but due to their significance within the game it's probably the best way. I've clicked on the wrong one many times also
Well, most of the Bosses DO have personal quests or are involved in the main-quest. The only exception are dragons, who could be found while exploring the map. Yet finding them is a 'quest' too sometimes.
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OK. I got your point about the pictures. Yet to tell you the truth, I can't completely agree with you. Little 200px maps are UNINFORMATIVE by themselves. It is impossible to understand a thing on it without clicking on it. Which means - to load another page with the map only and no quest/NPC description. And as a user I really-really want to compare the map with the subject this map shows. I know how to resize pics. After experimenting with different sizes I just felt that anything smaller that 300px is completely unreadable. That results in me opening another window in my browser only to have an access to the map and the text at the same time. As for NPC pages... Well they looked just empty. There is not much text to place on this pages, I prefer to see a readable map, that won't force me to click on it to understand what it is all about, than just an empty space. Leaving the screen half-blank is really no good.
I think I'd shut up now. You are an admin here, so I'd have to obey. And don't worry, I would. I just wanted to tell you my point here.
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While browsing the bestiary earlier today I noticed that many enemy pages are named with brackets. For example: [[sacred 2:Inquisition Guard (The Moneylender)|Inquisition Guard (The Moneylender)]]. A lot of them just list the quest name in brackets. Almost all bestiary is named this way. I even began to think that it's the way the bestiary pages should be named. I'm happy I didn't create a page with such a name yet. I'd use '-' instead when I would really create this page (I typed the red link with brackets, yet I'd correct it before actually creating the page).
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just looked at the Spy page.
My only concern is someone looking through the bestiary for the Spy and not finding him under high elf quest enemies. Let me talk with gogo on it and see if we can come up with a solution
I'm talking about this to Schot now, we'll have have a look and post again here in just a wee bit.
gogo
Hey guys, have you noticed the next two posts:
He IS in a bestiary. I just named him 'High Nobility Spy' there because this is what his enemy stats say. The same is with Ortlewyn and officer. I won't suggest this way if I didn't have a proof that it would really work. Spent some time on it yesterday, but it is all correct now. If you click the 'High Nobility Spy' link above his stats in the bestiary, you'd get to the page I linked you to.
Sorry I assumed his name was Aristocratic Spy too in the Bestiary
My fault for not reading thoroughly. If it was up to me I'd say it looks really good and the formatting works for me. In fact I like it a lot better than what my suggestion was
Once more: all the links are correct. This pointed-eared guy just was renamed for the bestiary in order not to confuse the readers with different names in the title and in the stats.
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That is reasonable, gogo. It's a good idea to make a distinction other than a background colour. I just wanted to say that there is no need to change the background colour to blue. If I'm not mistaken, black user interface was once a small separate mod. Maybe it was integrated to CM in the latest versions.
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Well, those double names are a bit confusing, yet I didn't want to entitle it 'Aristocratic Spy' in the bestiary while the screenshot right below it reads 'High Nobility Spy'. According to the story and the place it clearly is the same spy, yet he is named differently. That officer is the same, yet she was initially created as an enemy, so the page title is the same as the bestiary title. Yet in the quest she gives she was mentioned as [[sacred 2:Officer of the Inquisition Guard|Special Forces Officer]].
But the rest of the enemy-NPCs I remember are less confusing. At least they would have the same name everywhere.
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He IS in a bestiary. I just named him 'High Nobility Spy' there because this is what his enemy stats say. The same is with Ortlewyn and officer. I won't suggest this way if I didn't have a proof that it would really work. Spent some time on it yesterday, but it is all correct now. If you click the 'High Nobility Spy' link above his stats in the bestiary, you'd get to the page I linked you to.
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Thank you, I'd give it a try.
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OK, I'd try to type the set and item names once I return to editing wiki. As for the background, I think the black one makes reading the text on it a bit easier(due to the higher contrast). I think it's nice to have a black background for CM items in wiki. It makes them distinct. It shows that these items are different from the others. Like 'Ice and Blood' marking on the add-on items.
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Sorry for being so-o-o slo-o-ow to reply. That is the third time I type my answer to you. My Internet connection is worse than awful today.
Actually I already had some 'guinea pigs'. Those three elves (Aristocratic Spy (aka High Nobility Spy), Inquisitor Ortlewyn, Officer of the Inquisition Guard (aka Special Forces Officer)) were my experiment on trying to describe a quest-enemy-NPC thingy. It's no good to multiply the wiki instances of the same person, so I tried to create the page that would describe an enemy and NPC at the same time by combining both templates in one page. Check them out and tell me, what you think of this idea.
And no, I did nothing with Brutus, he just was the first one of this type that came in mind. His NPC page is still red, which allows to do anything we want to him. Though I'd really prefer to make a one page per person, that would combine all the possible info about this person.
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We were trying the latest version that was available back then. That was version 2.0.2.85. Do you recommend to look for older ones? Do they really changed something to the worst?
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Yes, I totally recall this quest. I hate when I can't do something, so this bugged quest really troubled me for a while. I was hoping that this quest would be fixed (I encountered the other quests that ended abruptly in the early versions, yet they were fixed later), yet looks like it was a hard case.
I think that we could create a page for this quest with a text like 'WARNING this quest is bugged. It never ends.' and put a note in the notes section about the fact that due to those bugs that quest was removed in CM. After all, I'm pretty sure that people would try to look for this quest in the wiki just to understand why it behaves so strange in game (at least it's what I'd try to do). So it'd be good to have an explanation of sorts.
By the way, how about movin this discussion to the wiki section? We'd better open a topic about describing CM in the wiki, than continue discussing it in the topic for CM itself.
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Yes, this guy is the first to come in mind. There are also several quests where you end up killing a quest giver. Like Brutus Platocratio or the guys from the Dragon Cult. They are NPCs until the very last moment. It's not good when a user, while trying to find more about the quest giver would suddenly get a page with only an enemy stats on it. Also those guys I mentioned before are NPCs for the Shadow charas and enemies for the Lights ones. Or vice versa. While you are on the other side, you'd never know them as an enemy. So getting just an enemy page would be strange.
Actually I even think that all the guys that would become agressive only after you do something are actually a mix of an NPC and an enemy. And one more thing. How about extending an enemy template for the quest enemies. Unlike the usual mobs who are just... mobs, the quest enemies have a story to tell. Maybe we should write a little description for them. Though some of them have not much to tell about.
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I'm happy to see the brand new CM-section of the wiki. Now I finally know where all the CM-omly quests should belong. I also have a few suggestions about it:
How do you think, whether or not it'd be a good idea to list all the items that were added in CM, at least in red links. I just thought that their names are well-known to the CM-team, so it is possible to list them all even before they would be found in game.
And how about dividing the quest section into three groups: the quests that were fully implemented by CM-team, the quests that were initially in game, yet were not playable until CM-team unlocked them, and the quests that were fixed (links to the existing original quest pages that mention CM-changes in Notes section).
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Today I'm planning to work with the Inquisitor's chara-specific quest named All or Nothing. I'm going to create pages for all the NPCs and Quest Enemies involved and to edit a quest page a bit (only to add maps and links, since the text itself looks fine to me). I wanted to ask you not to edit this page today, since I have no idea when I may finally finish my work (looks like I would have to take some more screenshots than I have already. And more to come, my Internet connection is unstable today, so I have to redo some things several times). I'd link you to the page when it'd be ready.
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Actually, I'm afraid that I initially didn't link the poor bear to any bestiary. I simply didn't know what to do in order to categorize the page. Now when you explained me where this page belongs, I promise to never repeat this silly mistake. I hope the bear finally got its respectable place. It also helped me to understand what to do with the characters who are NPCs and enemies at the same time. I'm pretty sure those guys are now properly categorized as NPCs and Quest High Elf Enemies: Aristocratic Spy (aka High Nobility Spy), Inquisitor Ortlewyn, Officer of the Inquisition Guard (aka Special Forces Officer). Since many of the quest enemies also offer you a dialog or even a quest, I consider such a double categorizing quite appropriate for some of them.
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I'm finally done with her: Officer of the Inquisition Guard and the bear:The Mutated Black Bear. I corrected the bear's links in its quest to make them point to the right bear. Hope, they are all correct now.
Just noticed I didn't specify the category for the bear. Which one would be correct in your opinion?
Looks like the spy would take more time. I never thought that enemy template REQUIRES a pic of an enemy fighting and won't work without it. I have no intention of creating another layout that would look alike, yet won't demand the pic. So I'd have to spent some time actually getting that pic.
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As I remember we tried to play under WinXP x32 for all computers, since some old games have issues with Vista/7. And some people in our little party have XP only. We just were not sure that Sacred itself would work correctly with 7 and that heterogeneous network would be stable, so we just opted for WinXP. That didn't help.
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That what I thought too. First I typed just [[sacred 2:Kuan|Kuan]] and that gave me a red link. Then I searched the wiki for Kuan and it gave me only a book and various items named after this God. He has no personal page. So I considered the book the most informative source about him and linked it there. Maybe that was the reason the Gods don't have personal pages. Those books tell a big and completely canonic stories about them. Since all I know about Kuan was from a book about him, I considered it a reasonable replacement for his page. When people click the wiki links they want to know more about the subject, right? So I linked them to that information.
And be careful with <br>. I've already nothiced they are necessary sometimes, when they are replaced with more usual line spaces the template goes bad. It is more noticeable between the pictures and while inserting pictures inside the text. There is nothing wrong with using html tags while writing Internet pages. After all that is exactly what html was created for. First of all the pages should look nice for readers, not for developers (that is nice too, yet not necessary).
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Took the screenshots. That bear was a trouble. Kobolds managed to kill it before I could take its pic. But after three replays I finally got it. Also prepared pics to do NPC and enemy pages for the Inquisitor's chara-specific quest All or Nothing. I have to go now, but I think those pages would be up today, since I plan to continue working on them later.
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The only thing I can tell for sure: for Light HE there is nothing in the other chapters except for two quests listed here: DeElfici in the Desert. Though this page tells you these quests are listed in the regular log, they are actually chara-specific and are listed in 'character-specific' quest-log section in latest versions (they are definitely in this section in Ice and Blood).
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I add logbooks to all the quests I edit, and I still hope to go through all the quests from the beginning. But I edit only several pages a day, so my work isn't very noticeable yet. My usual pictures addition to the quest pages are maps (since I think that opened maps are more useful in navigation than the ones half-covered with the fog of war) and quest logs. Also quest dialogs if they were missing before. But for some reason going through the quests takes me some time, so I'm not moving very fast.
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Forgot to tell you that I checked the Light quests in the Noriath's corner yesterday. As I remember there was only the quest about returning the artifact left. So it would be triple-checking. But it won't hurt too, especially since I added a bit info to the notes.
Thank you for pointing me to the bear. I'd make him a description.
Maybe I'd also merge the enemy template to the pages of the guys from Inquisitor's beginning (landlord and guest, links were somewhere above). They are now desribed as NPSc. I added their stats as enemies as well, but since I didn't use the enemy template, they don't appear in the list of High Elf Enemies.
High Elf Shadow chain
in Sacred Wiki General Discussion
Posted
I noticed that blue chains don't have a rating. Just like the main-campaign. Maybe that's because the blue chain is really closer to campaign than to a usual quest.