Sword Weapons and Dual Wield

[Zaraki 0]

So, I have read up on a bunch of topics talking about whether it is worth getting sword weapons when you already have dual wield (applies to Hafted Weapons too). Most say that if you get Dual Wield, then Sword Weapons is a wasted skill, as the effects don't stack. However, Sword Weapons does unlock secondary modifiers. So because of that, some have said that, if you get Sword Weapons for the unlocked skill portion, leave it at level 1 and only raise Dual Wield. More recently, however, I have also read that you should do it the other way around; that is, leave Dual Wield at level 1 and raise Sword Weapons instead. Well, this all has led me to be confused and made me wonder about a few things.

 

The first issue is that, I thought I read somewhere that Dual Wield increases the chance to land hits with the OFF HAND weapon. If that is true, it suggests that the higher Dual Wield is, the higher the chance that the off hand weapon will also land a hit. So shouldn't you be raising Dual Wield to get the benefit of actually wielding two weapons? I mean, if the off hand weapon is not landing hits, what's the point of using it?

 

The second issue is, once you unlock the secondary weapons mods with the Sword Weapons skill, does it matter what level the mod or weapon is? What I mean with that is, if I leave Sword Weapons at level 1, can I use a level 200 sword with a secondary skill so long as Dual Wield is raised high enough for me to use level 200 weapons? Once I unlock secondary effects, are they forever unlocked, regardless of the level of Sword Weapons or the weapon I'm using? Hope this question makes sense.

 

The last question I have is, what are secondary effects? Like, where can I find a list of them? Also, are any of them actually worth using 1 skill slot to unlock?

 

What all this boils down to is, if I decide that the secondary effects are worth it, which of the two skills should I level up, Sword Weapons or Dual Wield?

[essjayehm 58]

So, I have read up on a bunch of topics talking about whether it is worth getting sword weapons when you already have dual wield (applies to Hafted Weapons too). Most say that if you get Dual Wield, then Sword Weapons is a wasted skill, as the effects don't stack. However, Sword Weapons does unlock secondary modifiers. So because of that, some have said that, if you get Sword Weapons for the unlocked skill portion, leave it at level 1 and only raise Dual Wield. More recently, however, I have also read that you should do it the other way around; that is, leave Dual Wield at level 1 and raise Sword Weapons instead. Well, this all has led me to be confused and made me wonder about a few things.

 

The first issue is that, I thought I read somewhere that Dual Wield increases the chance to land hits with the OFF HAND weapon. If that is true, it suggests that the higher Dual Wield is, the higher the chance that the off hand weapon will also land a hit. So shouldn't you be raising Dual Wield to get the benefit of actually wielding two weapons? I mean, if the off hand weapon is not landing hits, what's the point of using it?

I remember something to that effect. But from personal experience playing on console, NEITHER skill really affects how much you hit, if you are spamming combat arts, and keeping those Combat Arts at high level. THis is because the weapom-Combat Arts have hidden bonuses for CtH. If you are using regular-attacks, it may matter, but I have no experience "left-clicking"

 

The second issue is, once you unlock the secondary weapons mods with the Sword Weapons skill, does it matter what level the mod or weapon is? What I mean with that is, if I leave Sword Weapons at level 1, can I use a level 200 sword with a secondary skill so long as Dual Wield is raised high enough for me to use level 200 weapons? YES!

Once I unlock secondary effects, are they forever unlocked, regardless of the level of Sword Weapons or the weapon I'm using? Hope this question makes sense. It does, and the answer is: You would need to bring Swords to Mastery level ONLY if you wanted to unlock mods that come with "Sword Weapon Mastery"

The last question I have is, what are secondary effects? Like, where can I find a list of them? Also, are any of them actually worth using 1 skill slot to unlock?

Sword Weapons-----Hafted Weapons

 

What all this boils down to is, if I decide that the secondary effects are worth it, which of the two skills should I level up, Sword Weapons or Dual Wield?

Personally, if I did do this kind of build, then Swords would be the one I put points to, because the mods scale according to the level of your Sword Lore. I would always leave Dual at 1.

Edited November 11, 2010 by essjayehm

[Zaraki 0]

Thanks for the help! Looking at the list of modifiers that are unlocked, none look like they are really worth the extra skill slot that Sword Weapons takes....So I'm thinking about not taking that skill after all.

 

I am wondering though, are all of those modifiers only available as secondary effects? Or can they also be available as regular modifiers that don't require Sword Weapons?

[essjayehm 58]

I am wondering though, are all of those modifiers only available as secondary effects? Or can they also be available as regular modifiers that don't require Sword Weapons?

Most are available, IIRC, all those mods are. Some take a LOT more shopping to find than others. BUT they will always be fixed, whereas the unlock-mods scale.

 

To be honest, I would've ALWAYS suggested to not take both Dual and Sword/Hafted... but recently it was pointed out that oversocketing hard damage rings x-x into level 1 or 2 weapons was more damage than using character-level weapons with the same jewels oversocketed.

So I thought... if you take dual and swords, you can shop 2 level 2 weapons with scaling disregard armour (+slots)... or whatever your preferred mod is... and you wouldn't need any other weapons for the rest of the game if you had level 200 damage x-x rings to socket into them.

It bends the "rules", in my opinion(I don't like over-socketing), but an option for consolers nonetheless.

[Zaraki 0]

I am wondering though, are all of those modifiers only available as secondary effects? Or can they also be available as regular modifiers that don't require Sword Weapons?

Most are available, IIRC, all those mods are. Some take a LOT more shopping to find than others. BUT they will always be fixed, whereas the unlock-mods scale.

 

To be honest, I would've ALWAYS suggested to not take both Dual and Sword/Hafted... but recently it was pointed out that oversocketing hard damage rings x-x into level 1 or 2 weapons was more damage than using character-level weapons with the same jewels oversocketed.

So I thought... if you take dual and swords, you can shop 2 level 2 weapons with scaling disregard armour (+slots)... or whatever your preferred mod is... and you wouldn't need any other weapons for the rest of the game if you had level 200 damage x-x rings to socket into them.

It bends the "rules", in my opinion(I don't like over-socketing), but an option for consolers nonetheless.

 

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand. So secondary effects that are unlocked by Sword or Hafted Weapons are ALWAYS scaling, as in, every time you gain a level, the values of the secondary effect also goes up slightly? Do primary effects ever scale?

 

About socketing, can you elaborate a little? So you are saying if I have a level 200 straight up damage jewel, like 60-60, and you put it in a level 1 weapon with a slot, that weapon will scale better than anything you find? Why do I need Sword Weapons to do this? Also, if I put a jewel in a socket, why does it make the value scale? Is that because sockets always make jewels scale?

 

Sorry about all these questions. Kinda confused about all this so clarification would be awesome.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand. So secondary effects that are unlocked by Sword or Hafted Weapons are ALWAYS scaling, as in, every time you gain a level, the values of the secondary effect also goes up slightly? Do primary effects ever scale?

 

About socketing, can you elaborate a little? So you are saying if I have a level 200 straight up damage jewel, like 60-60, and you put it in a level 1 weapon with a slot, that weapon will scale better than anything you find? Why do I need Sword Weapons to do this? Also, if I put a jewel in a socket, why does it make the value scale? Is that because sockets always make jewels scale?

 

Sorry about all these questions. Kinda confused about all this so clarification would be awesome.

 

Ok.. Let's see if I can give you a clearer picture...

 

There are three kinds of mods:

 

1.) Fixed - as in "Life Leech +20" - usually in Yellow

2.) Percentage - as in "Life Leeched 1.2%" (Gold colored enhancment)

3.) Scaled - as in "Chance to Find Valuables <Enhanced Perception>" which translates to something like "Chance to find Valuables +5.5%" once you've got EP.

 

The scaled one will vary depending on the level of EP. The higher your EP is, the higher the CtFV will be. Now, if you don't put in any points into Enhanced Perception for several levels, you're NOT going to see that stat rising.

 

Make sense now?

[Furian67 15]

To shed a bit of a different light on the subject Zaraki I think this depends on the build and style you will play. For me I would not choose both Dual Wield and Sword/Hafted on any character Except for a shadow warrior. My personal play style is to use dual wield for everyday mobs but when I get to a boss or a situation that I need a bit more health regen I will switch to Two handed weapon with Life Leech X.X%.

 

The reason I do this is mainly for the attack/casting speed. Yes there are some unlocked weapon modifiers that are nice on some of the swords. But my main issue to keep both Dual wield and sword weapon at level is for the attack/casting speed. Ohh and by the way once I get my

attack and casting speed to 150 I stop putting points into both

 

[Zaraki 0]

Hmm, I'm not sure I understand. So secondary effects that are unlocked by Sword or Hafted Weapons are ALWAYS scaling, as in, every time you gain a level, the values of the secondary effect also goes up slightly? Do primary effects ever scale?

 

About socketing, can you elaborate a little? So you are saying if I have a level 200 straight up damage jewel, like 60-60, and you put it in a level 1 weapon with a slot, that weapon will scale better than anything you find? Why do I need Sword Weapons to do this? Also, if I put a jewel in a socket, why does it make the value scale? Is that because sockets always make jewels scale?

 

Sorry about all these questions. Kinda confused about all this so clarification would be awesome.

 

Ok.. Let's see if I can give you a clearer picture...

 

There are three kinds of mods:

 

1.) Fixed - as in "Life Leech +20" - usually in Yellow

2.) Percentage - as in "Life Leeched 1.2%" (Gold colored enhancment)

3.) Scaled - as in "Chance to Find Valuables <Enhanced Perception>" which translates to something like "Chance to find Valuables +5.5%" once you've got EP.

 

The scaled one will vary depending on the level of EP. The higher your EP is, the higher the CtFV will be. Now, if you don't put in any points into Enhanced Perception for several levels, you're NOT going to see that stat rising.

 

Make sense now?

 

Ok, that is very helpful, thank you very much. I guess I never noticed the different colors on console (except blue on a few occasions) so I didn't even bother wondering what they would mean. This sure helps a lot.

 

 

To shed a bit of a different light on the subject Zaraki I think this depends on the build and style you will play. For me I would not choose both Dual Wield and Sword/Hafted on any character Except for a shadow warrior. My personal play style is to use dual wield for everyday mobs but when I get to a boss or a situation that I need a bit more health regen I will switch to Two handed weapon with Life Leech X.X%.

 

The reason I do this is mainly for the attack/casting speed. Yes there are some unlocked weapon modifiers that are nice on some of the swords. But my main issue to keep both Dual wield and sword weapon at level is for the attack/casting speed. Ohh and by the way once I get my

attack and casting speed to 150 I stop putting points into both

 

 

This too makes lots of sense, but I just want to clarify one thing. If you use dual wield for regular mobs, and two handed swords for bosses, that seems to imply that you do take both dual wield and sword weapons, as you would not be able to use one or the other effectively without the skill. So are you saying that only with your Shadow Warrior do you use dual wield for regular mobs and two handed swords for bosses, or is this a strategy you use with other classes too? I'm definitely going to use dual wield on my seraphim, but now I'm wondering if I need Sword Weapons for when I switch to a two handed weapon for bosses.

[Furian67 15]

I only do this with my Shadow warrior, as I have run this type of toon alot. I found that for me I can make a HardCore closed net toon with 7 dedicated skills and that leaves me with 3 skills to mix and match whatever I want. Like my Guide Ultimate Warrior Build

 

You don't have to take Sword weapon if you dual wield with a seraphim. if you wear the Revelation of the Seraphim Set it comes with LL%. that way you can stay with the dual wield and get LL% also.

[Zaraki 0]

I only do this with my Shadow warrior, as I have run this type of toon alot. I found that for me I can make a HardCore closed net toon with 7 dedicated skills and that leaves me with 3 skills to mix and match whatever I want. Like my Guide Ultimate Warrior Build

 

You don't have to take Sword weapon if you dual wield with a seraphim. if you wear the Revelation of the Seraphim Set it comes with LL%. that way you can stay with the dual wield and get LL% also.

 

Ah okay, thank you very much for the info. Everyone has really helped me a lot.

[Zaraki 0]

Ok, sorry, but one more question. If I do end up taking both Dual Wield and Sword Weapons, which bonuses take priority? Said differently, do the attack speed , the attack value and the chance for double hit bonuses from Sword Weapons apply when I am dual wielding? I know they don't stack, but if I leave Dual Wield at level 1 and raise Sword Weapons, do the bonuses from Sword Weapons apply when I dual wield?

[Furian67 15]

Well the answer is No and No.

 

Personally I would raise the skill that I use the most. Since they are separate skills and one doesn't help the other. If you mainly use the Dual Wield the most, pump points into that. For my Shadow warriors I would put points into both but the Dual Wield would tend to get more attention. As the levels came on I would slowly keep adding a point when I could spare to Sword Weapons in order to get the 150 attack/cast speed.

[Darth Pickles78 0]

Having duel wield and sword weapons(mastered) WILL make any char. deal massive damage with the right swords.Secondary effects based on the sword modifier are very very damaging.It is well worth the investment.