Regen time wiki addition

[Amble 0]

Attached functioning regen calculating .htm for those that would like to use it but didn't want to read the whole thread.

 

 

 

I'm working on an addition to the wiki that displays regen times for combat arts and I'm a bit stumped on the game's value for buffs

 

For Dragon Mages runes of protection I'm given a value of 400 and 350 for protector.

 

Would someone out there be able to create a naked level 1 dragon mage with those buffs memorized and tell me if the regen penalties are 40% and 35% respectively? And if not, what are they?

 

The info I'm putting in, for example is:

 

Combat Trance

dm_me_kampftrance		aspect = "EA_DM_MENTALISM",
	cooldown = 60.000000,
soundProfile = 0,
cost_level = 50,
cost_base = 100,

 

which means that it has a 6 second cool down, regen time at level 0 is 1 second, and it adds .5 seconds for each rune read or .25 seconds for socketing.

 

I'd also add in the formula to figure out the final regen times with boni:

 

(B + (x * L) + (y * 0.5L) / (1 + R)) + C = T

 

B=base cost in seconds

L=cost increase per rune read

R=regen bonus

C=cool down

x=# runes read

y=# bonus from items

T=final regen time

 

So for level 3 Combat Trance with 2 runes read and 1 socketed and a 300% regen bonus:

(10 + (2 * 5) + (1 * 2.5) / (1 + 3.00)) + 6 = 11.625 or likely 11.63 seconds rounded up

 

 

Though I'm not sure where to put the formula if I put the table with the regen times under each Combat Art on their respective class page.

 

Edit -- Maths

sacred2regen1.zip

Edited March 1, 2010 by Amble

[Schot 407]

Hey hey Amble. I just ran in and checked.

 

Familiar +29.7% Penalty

 

Protector +39.6% Penalty

 

Runes of Protection +34.6% Penalty

 

P.s.

You may find some useful info within the Balance.txt file. I noticed that it provides a base amount of damage for all spells to start with. Might have some regeration base values in there as well to use with your formula.

[Amble 0]

Thanks, Schot, though unfortunately for my feeble mind that doesn't alleviate any misunderstandings for what the buff times are for

 

Edit -- Now I see... So according to the info I have for familiar:

 

dm_dm_vertrauter	aspect = "EA_DM_DRAGONMAGIC",
cooldown = 0.000000,
soundProfile = 0,
cost_level = 300,
cost_base = 300,

It starts with a 30% regen penalty, but I forgot about your base stamina value added to it.

"next level" I would assume it to be somewhere around 55%-60%

Edited February 18, 2010 by Amble

[Amble 0]

This is kinda what I'm thinking of, for each combat art, this one for Combat Trance.

 

 

I was considering adding a few more rows, perhaps at specific regen boni levels such as 500% 1000% etc but it may not be needed and perhaps I should just K.I.S.S

[Amble 0]

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/User:Amble

 

What do you guys think? Does it need some explaining or changes?

Edited February 18, 2010 by Amble

[gogoblender 3,078]

Just talked about this to Schot. WE're okay with the extra innate info...nice threre...but the regen table if we can hold off on putting that in just yet. We'd like to see how this pans out across all the other Toon's Combat Art's and get some more info from other players here on this to see how everyone likes it and their comments.

 

You can use your use page to test all your new tables and formulaes.

 

Thanks Amble, back and hit the Sacred 2 road running!

 

 

gogo

[Amble 0]

Makes sense..

 

I guess I could have just linked to my user page to let you guys see what my thoughts were

 

Fixed it till there's more input...

 

As I construct the tables I'll add them in to my user page

[Schot 407]

Ok, I'm trying this out now on my level 90 Shadow Warrior. First thing that comes to mind is; How does the formula account for Regeneration Penalty from Amor? Is that part of R?

 

EDIT: Alrighty, so here's my scenario:

 

Shadow Warrior Level 90

Demonic Blow level 24 (1 rune read)

mgr.defineSpell( "sk_hc_harterschlag"

cooldown = 0.000000,

soundProfile = 0,

cost_level = 175,

cost_base = 350,

 

R=1832.0% (Taken from Regeneration Tooltip in game)

 

Stamina: 333 = 1610.6%

Armor Lore: 45 = -33.3%

Concentration: 21 = -27.0%

Death Warrior Focus: -61.8%

Regeneration Time: Death Warrior: -27.0%

 

Grim Resilience Buff: 67.2 = +29.2% (With "Discpline" mod)

entry5 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 4, 8 }

 

T=1.3s in game

 

(35 + (1 * 1.75) + (23 * 0.875) / (1 + 18.32)) + 0 = T

= (35 + 1.75 + 20.125 / 19.32) + 0 = T

= (56.875 / 19.32) + 0 = T

= (56.875 / 19.32) + 0 = T

= 2.94 + 0 = T

T = 2.94

 

Ok, so this should be 1.3 as it is in game shouldn't it? Where did I go wrong?

 

EDIT:

Just saw your below post and saw where I went wrong.

[Amble 0]

R would be the tooltip regen bonus given when you mouse over the aspect title in the Combat Art window pane.

 

I'm installing a new video card as we speak so I can't doble check myself but removing a piece of armor should change that tool tip

[Schot 407]

Aaaaaah! I forgot all about that. Very important point that lil tid bit. I just checked and the Regen tooltip does in fact change when I remove/add an armor piece. I'll adjust my post above.

[Amble 0]

Ok, I'm trying this out now on my level 90 Shadow Warrior. First thing that comes to mind is; How does the formula account for Regeneration Penalty from Amor? Is that part of R?

 

EDIT: Alrighty, so here's my scenario:

 

Shadow Warrior Level 90

Demonic Blow level 24 (1 rune read)

mgr.defineSpell( "sk_hc_harterschlag"

cooldown = 0.000000,

soundProfile = 0,

cost_level = 175,

cost_base = 350,

 

R=1832.0%

 

Stamina: 333 = 1610.6%

Armor Lore: 45 = -33.3%

Concentration: 21 = -27.0%

Death Warrior Focus: -61.8%

Regeneration Time: Death Warrior: -27.0%

 

Grim Resilience Buff: 67.2 = +29.2% (With "Discpline" mod)

entry5 = {"et_regThisBuff", 250, 5, 4, 8 }

 

T=1.3s in game

 

cost_level = 175,

cost_base = 350,

 

3.5 + (1 * 1.75) + (23 * .875) / (1 + 18.32) = 1.3134058

Edited February 18, 2010 by Amble

[Schot 407]

Awesome. Now if we could set up a few fields within the wiki for calculation that would be great. This is an excellent addition to the wiki Amble. Nicely made. gogo and I just need to figure out now where best to place it on the wiki which we're looking at now.

[Amble 0]

I know this could all be done on a spreadsheet also in excel and uploaded to google docs

 

Then you could just punch in the values you wanted and get a real time calculation.

 

Edit -- Oh, and the formula may get a little bit more complex as you add spells with cool downs modded by less cool down abilities.

 

Example: Shadow step with Phase Shift mod-- 50% less cool down, + another .5% less each Combat Art level.

 

Once you hit the cap from focus the calculation will change a bit since your Combat Art level will be affected by your Focus skill

Edited February 18, 2010 by Amble

[Amble 0]

I've gotten all the data for the formulae extracted from the spells.txt file now. I just have to put them into table format, unless you guys wanted it in some other form.

 

I've tabled all the Dragon Mage and Temple Guardian abilities so far. They can be seen on my user page

 

One irregularity I noticed was the Temple Guardian's Battle Extension ability doesn't follow the normal pattern. The reading rune value for most skills is half that of the base value, in this case it isn't. Could anyone with a Temple Guardian and Battle Extension maybe plug your scenario into the formula to confirm that slotting a rune adds half the value that reading does?

[Schot 407]

I'm sorry to keep you hanging Amble. I've been split into tiny bits lately, lol. Ok, the thing is that I'm not terribly fond of the use of the table in there. It's a bit overbearing I'm finding on the Combat Art pages so I'd like to find a different way to present your information. As far as I can see I believe the greatest value from your formula is that it provides the ability to players to be able to predict regen times on the fly and while in game. For example if a player was in game and debating whether or not to read more runes to get more damage they could use your formula and know right away. It's an excellent tool but as it it written I think you have too much info in some places and not enough in others.

 

The "Base Regen", "Cooldown" and "Time Added" table rows took me a while to understand why they are in the table and I now understand why. They are an attempt to elaborate on the initial formula I gather. What I would ask is that if you want to explain those values to please do it in a small written paragraph. That way there is no longer a need for a table and the presentation of the info will blend in and work much better with the layout. Though to further the point on elaboarating the values I think you should just leave it out entirely. It isn't required knowledge to use the formula since the variables will already be in place within the formula. I would however add more detail inside the formula. Here's an example of how I would like to see the info presented:

 

Use this formula to predict the regeneration time of {{PAGENAME}}.

 

5 + (NUMBER OF RUNES READ x 2.5) + (COMBAT ART LEVELS FROM EQUIPMENT x 1.25) ÷ (1 + <REGEN BONUS>) + 60

 

Then if you'd like to add info that would provide a greater understanding of your formula you could provide a link in the description to a page that would cover the formula more in depth.

 

 

Regarding the issue of cooldowns should the formula then be changed for those Combat Arts to account for the cooldown progression? For example the Shadow Step calc would end with +15 (If Phase Shift mod is chosen change to 7.5 - (LEVEL OF Combat Art x 0.5%) ) ?

 

Once you hit the cap from focus the calculation will change a bit since your Combat Art level will be affected by your Focus skill

 

Could you explain a bit further on this Amble? I'm not sure what exactly will happen with the formula at that point.

 

I'll see if I can test that last bit with one of my Temple Guardian's.

[Amble 0]

My main goal here was to provide, mostly to console players, an understanding of what "regen time" affects when the numbers are so large and help to make some sense of why the regen time numbers seem so inconsistent. I knew I wanted to get the information out there but once Gogo pointed me to pitching the idea here I started questioning a way in which to present it and what info may be necessary.

 

Do you suppose my previous idea of a spreadsheet would work to a benefit? Unfortunately I have no actual programming knowledge or a java-based website such as titancalc for Titan Quest to make a character builder of sorts. This done in such a way to where someone, while playing the game, could select a combat art, input their aspect regen time, and plug in runes read and socketed, and get the final result.

 

Could you explain a bit further on this Amble? I'm not sure what exactly will happen with the formula at that point.

 

Well when you hit level caps of Combat Arts you still gain the full cooldown so when plugging numbers into the formula you would still use the actual runes read and socketed even if you're Combat Art doesn't say you get the full benefit. However for abilities like Shadowstep there is less cooldown based on the level so if the cooldown is 7.496 seconds at combat art level 1 (7.5 -.5% per level) then the benefit of it being a theoretical level of 1.5 would be 7.5 -.75% (7.444 seconds). Once you gain some focus skill and are able to gain the benefits of the runes read to raise the combat art to it's real level of 2, then you'd gain the full bonus of 7.5 - 1% (7.43 seconds).

 

Not sure if that's more or less confusing, actually...

[Schot 407]

Do you suppose my previous idea of a spreadsheet would work to a benefit? Unfortunately I have no actual programming knowledge or a java-based website such as titancalc for Titan Quest to make a character builder of sorts. This done in such a way to where someone, while playing the game, could select a combat art, input their aspect regen time, and plug in runes read and socketed, and get the final result.

That's exactly how I see this being presented the best. I've not built a calculator myself but your work on this formula is inspiring. I'll take a look at an existing calculator on the net. Maybe we could create something based on a sample on the net somehwere. Do you know of some Amble? In addition wiki's have a specific way of implementing interactive scripting so I'd need to read a bit on that. I've done some work with wiki plugins so that side of the job shouldn't be too much of a problem.

 

Could you explain a bit further on this Amble? I'm not sure what exactly will happen with the formula at that point.

 

Well when you hit level caps of Combat Arts you still gain the full cooldown so when plugging numbers into the formula you would still use the actual runes read and socketed even if you're Combat Art doesn't say you get the full benefit. However for abilities like Shadowstep there is less cooldown based on the level so if the cooldown is 7.496 seconds at combat art level 1 (7.5 -.5% per level) then the benefit of it being a theoretical level of 1.5 would be 7.5 -.75% (7.444 seconds). Once you gain some focus skill and are able to gain the benefits of the runes read to raise the combat art to it's real level of 2, then you'd gain the full bonus of 7.5 - 1% (7.43 seconds).

 

Not sure if that's more or less confusing, actually...

 

More AND less I think, lol. But I got the just of your point. I have a level 140 HE with loads of runes read for Shadow Step as well as tons of +Shadow Step gear aaaand with the Phase Shift mod chosen. I'll have a look and try your formula on her.

 

 

All else failing we could put all of your tables onto a unique page in the wiki and link to it on each of the Combat Art pages.

 

P.s.

If you are happy with your table style I could create a simple Template for you to use. It would simplify your tables a fair bit.

[Amble 0]

Well I think ours would be a bit more simplified than these two examples but here's a calculator for Titan Quest and Diablo 2

 

http://www.titancalc.com/

http://www.cs.hmc.edu/~cbradfor/diablo2/select-hero.html

 

Their calcs require pre-requisites and such where as ours would just need to access a data base, perhaps choosing class and/or aspect to narrow it down then just inputting the desired values for runes and regen bonus. The formula could stay hidden unless the user wished to see it.

 

Edit -- There is also this one for NWN2 which is way, way, way, WAY more complex than what we'd need but demonstrates an excel based method.

 

Edit2 -- Give me a few minutes and I can throw together a preliminary spreadsheet

Edited February 23, 2010 by Amble

[Schot 407]

Awesome. Ok, I'll look over the links.

 

P.s.

Here's one we used to use in ogame. http://websim.speedsim.net/

 

P.p.s

Initially wrote the formula wrong in a previous post. This is how it should appear which I'm adding here for personal reference:

 

(5 + (NUMBER OF RUNES READ x 2.5) + (COMBAT ART LEVELS FROM EQUIPMENT x 1.25)) ÷ (1 + <REGEN BONUS>) + 60

(5 + (1 * 2.5) + (23 * 1.25)) / (1 + 18.32) + 60

[Amble 0]

Here's a basic spreadsheet. For some reason or another it's not calculating out the regeneration bonus....

 

I added this to an old builder worksheet that I had started long ago so for all intents and purposes you can mostly ignore the skills thing.

 

Btw, why doesn't this forum email me when subscribed threads are replied to? I have it set for immediate notification and my address is correct

 

Edit-- Figured out the regen bonus problem... Needs another set of parenthesis:

 

=(3+(<runes read>*1.5)+(<runes slotted*0.75))/(1+<regen bonus>)

Edited February 23, 2010 by Amble

[Schot 407]

At the moment I don't have anything that can read xlsx. When I log into my vista partition I'll see if I have a reader there.

 

As for the notification I'm not sure. I've never used it myself. Did you choose "Track this topic" from the Options drop down near the very top right of topic?

 

 

P.s.

I'm toying with this; http://webmath.com/crunchnumnovar.html. From the drop down menu there I'm using the "Numbers; Calculating with Variables" and using (3.5 + (a * 1.75) + (b * .875)) / (1 + c) to test with. Just need to use that code within the wiki but first I'll need to set up a simple test html.

[Amble 0]

It's an excel 07 file, I can save it in an older format if it helps

 

Basically I have it set up to do the math on a second sheet and you input the values of the runes and regen bonus and pull down a menu to select your Combat Art and it gives you the regen time

[Schot 407]

Ok, well here's something for you to ponder in the meantime. I'll see if I can create a simple form to allow readers to add in their info:

 

Runes Read: From Gear: Cooldown:

 

 

 

Just some simple fields.

[Amble 0]

I found a program to convert excel to webpages...

 

Attached a .zip with my spreadsheet attached

sacred_2_CC.zip

[Schot 407]

Aaaaah, very nice Amble. I'll see if I can drop this into your wiki User page.