Buff suits and - regen buffs items

[claudius 104]

I couldn't find the guide to buff suits in the guide section of the forum. But briefly the idea is that you put on an armor piece that has + of a specific buff. For example you could have a wing with 2 sockets and battle stance runes in the wings. Next when all of your buff suit is on you cast the buff. Afterwords you take the buff suit off and you still have the buff as cast at the higher level. And the beauty is that + combat art level from gear including runes only gives you one half the regeneration penalty.

Ok so that's for the beginners. But my question is if I use equipment that has - regeration of buffs will this affect my buff after taking that armor off? I ask because I have a 2 socket shield with - regeration of buffs that I think is called the unyielding wall.

 

[Dragon Brother 619]

I can't remember if that applies to the penalty when the buff is cast or afterwards. It would make sense if it was at the time the buff was cast so a combination of +combat arts and -regen penalty in the buff suit would then be best. However, you would be better off testing that than taking anything I say as truth, it's sure been a while...

[Flix 5,116]

The regen penalty from a buff is fixed at the time the buff is cast.

The modifier Regen penalty from buffs -X% applies for when the buff is cast. Same as anything else.

Therefore taking the gear off after the buff is cast won't affect an active buff.

 

 

Buff Suits Guide is on the Wiki. Sometimes guides are only on the Wiki and not the forum, or vice-versa, for whatever reason.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Flix

[claudius 104]

Wow I read the link. +skills also work. Blows my mind!

[claudius 104]

I have eaten 100 runes in ancient bark. I can test this out but it is tedious to shop all the test amulets (+skills, items with socets and +CA, -regen buffs)

 

So if anyone knows what do you think I should do? Should I eat 200 runes and make a -regen/skills suit?

 

Or should I stay at 100 at make the buff suit +ancient bark (up to 200)?

[Flix 5,116]

If you're going to make a suit you may as well make a classic buff suit.

 

Regen penalty from buffs stacks with diminishing returns so it will never achieve the same levels of reduction.

 

To me using this modifier is a good alternative for those who don't want to keep an entirely different suit of armor around just for casting buffs, especially if buffs may need to be changed or reactivated on the fly. I just use it in normal gear as well as a "buff weapon slot" where I keep a weapon/shield or two weapons socketed with high levels of regen penalty from buffs jewelry. Rancuil's Dark Flame and Unyielding Wall are good choices for a buff weapon slot.

Edited February 4, 2014 by Flix

[claudius 104]

I found (- reg buffs) 'buff slot' would work right after casting the buff. But when I hit my first enemy the regenerations would reset to the condition without the buff slot.

 

(-reg buffs ) is a rare modifier or jewelry property

Edited February 16, 2014 by claudius

[Flix 5,116]

Regen penalty from active buff can't change after you cast it - it's fixed at the time of casting. Are youe regeneration times actually increasing or are you just looking at the tooltip for the buffs? The penalty displayed on the tooltip will of course increase once you switch away from your buff weapon slot but it doesn't apply since you've already cast the buff.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Flix

[Silver_fox 397]

Regen penalty from active buff can't change after you cast it - it's fixed at the time of casting.

 

I'm afraid, you're wrong, Flix. The whole point of Buff-suits is that when you remove the suit with runes socketed, it also removes the penalty from havong a high-level buff. The benefits, however, are fixed at the time the buff is cast. I'll quote the guide you linked:

 

However, the Buffs are a permanent spell. They stay up until they are deactivated. Removing the + Combat Art boosters does not lower the level the buff was cast at. So..........

By removing the Boosters from the buff it does, however, remove the Regen Penalty. This effectively gives back the Regens to be used by Attack Combat arts

 

If you choose the opposite way to build a buff-suit, eat 100+ runes and make a suit with +all skills, you'd have a high level benefits and low penalty at the moment of the cast and high level benefits and high level regen penalty when you remove the suit. So this method works only with one single buff - Elf's Grand Ingivoration that has no penalty whatsoever.

 

For all buffs except the Ingivoration the best way to start is to eat 1 rune, socket the rest into buff-suit and wear it at the time of the cast. Then when you remove the buff-suit, you'd have the benefits from the level the buff was cast at and the regen penalty of your own level 1 buff. Once you have a high-level character with a lot of Focus skills, you can add to the buff level by eating more runes, but until then, keep it at one rune only.

 

I tested it excessively, so I can vouch that after the buff is cast, removing +CA Level lowers regen penalty and removing +all skills increases it.

 

As for the tooltips - the one on the buff itself does not reflect the stituation, but you can look at the other CAs. The lower the regen penalty is, the faster their regen would be.

Edited February 16, 2014 by Silver_fox

[mibbs 29]

It must be useful to use to cast buffs many-socketed weapons and shield (officer saber\mirror shield is the better choice), and then socket it with some high-level runes (the best is from niobium with +6 to buff, but has 50 level requirement). Of cause, if you have these runes

[Flix 5,116]

 

Regen penalty from active buff can't change after you cast it - it's fixed at the time of casting.

 

I'm afraid, you're wrong, Flix.

Well, now hold on, let's see if we can figure out why we're getting different results before we start saying someone is "wrong."

 

**PICS DELETED**

 

For this test, we'll use -% Regen Penalty from Buffs on my Dragon Mage, Dr. Manhattan. He's naked, no gear equipped except for Rancuil's and Unyielding Wall in a buff weapon slot:

 

So there will be nothing that affects buff regeneration penalty or CA regen time except for this weapon slot, and the buff itself. We'll look at the regen time of Energy Blaze for the test.

 

Energy Blaze starts out with 3.3 regen time. Now let's a cast the Protector buff, using our Buff Weapon Slot.

 

Thanks to our -% Regen Penalty from Buffs weapon slot, Protector only applies an 11.9% regen penalty, increasing Energy Blaze's regen to 3.7 seconds:

 

Now, if what you said about the regen penalty changing after the buff is cast is true, then when I switch away from this weapon slot to an empty weapon slot, the regen penalty inflicted by Protector should increase, thereby increasing the regen of Energy Blaze. But does it?

 

It does not increase. Regen remains at 3.7 seconds.

 

Let's try it in reverse, casting the buff without the bonus, and then switching to the weapons with the bonus:

 

Now Protector has been cast with the full 24.1% regen penalty. Energy Blaze's regen is now of course penalized more, with a 4.1s regen time:

 

Now let's switch to our Buff Weapon Slot and see if the regen penalty is lowered:

 

It is still the same.

 

So my conclusion is that Regen Penalty From Buffs -X% functions exactly as I have described it throughout this thread. It fixes the buff's regeneration penalty at the time of casting, and adding or subtracting gear with this modifier cannot affect the regen penalty from an active buff after it is cast.

Edited March 1, 2014 by Flix

[claudius 104]

Flix I noticed by looking at my CA's

 

Before the buff slot say my ravaged impact is 3 seconds. That is with Ancient Bark activated, but without the -regen buff slot

With the rare -regeneration buff slot it says my ravaged impact is 2.5 because the -regen slot lowered the penalty to ancient bark.

 

But when I kill my first enemy the ravage impact goes back to 3 seconds.

[Flix 5,116]

Oh @#$%^ please let that not be true... if so that's among one of the most crap display bugs I've heard of yet, and there are still some crap ones in existence...

 

::runs off to test again::

[Flix 5,116]

AAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

 

That is completely accurate. When using the Regen Penalty From Buffs modifier, it applies only when the gear is worn. It affects buff regen penalty on the fly, but the true regen time does not update until after the CA has been cast once. That means using a buff weapon slot like I have been doing for like year, is completely worthless, non-working strategy for lowering regen times. HOW DID I NOT NOTICE THAT?

 

What. THE. %$#@!

 

I swear, if this game had a neck, I would choke it sometimes.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Flix

[Silver_fox 397]

... And I was about to make it a picture-heavy thread by adding 10+ pictures of my experiments with my Elf and her favorite Unyielding Wall. Glad you found the answer by yourself, as I shudder to think how much all these pictures would have slowed the loading of this page.

 

By the way, this might be a bug with regen penalty modifier working with tooltips. Removing (or adding) +all skills bonus usually takes effect on tooltip immediately (or at least tooltips update when you switch slots), but with Regeneration Penalty from Buffs it takes you to kill something to see the change.

 

And what can I say, the thought of killing this game for its bugs crosses the mind of every Sacred player at least once. But we still continue playing.

[Flix 5,116]

By the way, this might be a bug with regen penalty modifier working with tooltips. Removing (or adding) +all skills bonus usually takes effect on tooltip immediately (or at least tooltips update when you switch slots), but with Regeneration Penalty from Buffs it takes you to kill something to see the change.

 

Might be? Sounds like most definitely a bug. Makes me wonder what other tooltips only update when they feel like it. You don't even have to kill anything, just cast it and the regen time updates. I fired an Energy Blaze and I watched as before my eyes the 3.7 changed to 4.1. What a dirty trick.

 

And what can I say, the thought of killing this game for its bugs crosses the mind of every Sacred player at least once. But we still continue playing.

 

I guess. I don't really even want to now. Confidence is shaken that anything actually works worth a damn.

[Silver_fox 397]

 

By the way, this might be a bug with regen penalty modifier working with tooltips...

 

Might be? Sounds like most definitely a bug.

I just read what I wrote again. Geez, sometimes my English is worse than I want it to be. I never doubted the fact that it is a bug (it is, and a big fat one like they have in the Desert). What I tried to say that this tooltip bug seems to be exclusively for Regeneration Penalty from Buffs modifier, as all others I could try updated the tooltips without having to use CAs first. I tried with +skills, +CA level, Regeneration TIme: Aspect, just regen time -%.