Combat Discipline vs Ancient Magic CM Patch

[Erdias 0]

I am playing a Source Warden TG, similar to woody´s.

I am now on the fence whether I should take Combat Discipline or Ancient Magic. I would take Ancient Magic but I wanted to hear your guys & girls opinion. I have never gotten past lvl 75 or gold so I wanted someone more experienced to shine in and answer my question .

Thank you in advance and have a nice day.

Edited February 22 by Erdias

[idbeholdME 394]

Without mods, Temple Guardian does not have access to Ancient Magic, so the choice is clear there.

If you have both available, it depends. Combat Discipline will give you more raw damage and regeneration time reduction.

Ancient Magic will give slightly less damage, no regen time reduction, but will negate enemy immunities at Mastery.

Usually, AM would probably be the safer choice for a caster, but Source Warden is an exception in my opinion. Because it already has built-in resistance reduction, in massive amounts, through Fiery Ember and Icy Evanescence. Combined with charged grid, you have 3 sources of damage to use against otherwise resistant enemies.

There are very few bosses in the game, that are immune to multiple elements and even for those, you can break 2 of those with FE and IE. The 2 elements being Ice and Fire is also great, because fire immune enemies are usually already vulnerable to Ice and vice versa. Just pick the right tool for the job. There are only very few exceptions to that rule, namely a couple side bosses (Poison Lord and Banshee).

My Source Warden/Lost Fusion hybrid was one of the more fun builds I played in this game.

 

EDIT:

Bonus question - why not both? If you are focusing only on Source Warden, surely you can squeeze them in 

Edited February 23 by idbeholdME

[Erdias 0]

Thanks for your answer,

mys current setup is:

smithing 
bargaining
DGF
concentration
armor lore
scource warden lore
scoure warden focus
warding energy lore
x (thoughness)
x (combat discipline)

I am currently lvl 42, that´s why 2 skills are still missing. I want to have 75 hard skill points in each, dont know if that´s optimal or even possible (should be).

I dont have any high lvl smithing or bargaining characters, I do have a lvl 65 TG but I don´t want to level another character, so I intented him to be self-sufficiant 

Edited February 23 by Erdias

[ErTasiTroll 4]

I finally got into my account again, will continue to use this account 

[idbeholdME 394]

Ah, a utility character. Then I understand the lack of skill slots. My utility character (Smith + Bargainer) is also a TG, but a pure Devout Guardian left click build and not a caster, so I had a lot of free skill slots.

In that case, I'd personally go with Ancient Magic. The extra damage from CD over AM is not that big of a deal, depends on if you want the extra regen from CD, but it should not be necessary if you are focusing purely on one aspect, you need to be sure it can handle everything. And combos with 2 Arts should be enough for you in that case. AM will allow you to easily kill everything with just the Source Warden kit, even resistant/immune enemies. AM will negate a part of their resist and then Icy or Fiery will apply. You could probably bring any formerly immune enemy into negative resistance Fire or Ice values.

As for Mastering all skills, yes, it's possible, but it will happen at level 167 at the soonest. You will also probably want to keep Bargaining and Smithing at character level, so even later. But to be able to work max level items, you don't really have to push a smither that high. Mine stopped at level 120. With a dedicated smith suit, you can push the max workable item level to 230+ 

Edited February 25 by idbeholdME

[Lindor 438]

Hmm with concentration, devout guardian focus and warding energy lore you got three skills just to efficiently use one spell. Even if it's one of the best buffs. Is that really worth it? It's fun arguing over that kind of stuff.

 

An alternative would be swapping those skills for constitution, spell resistance and combat discipline. Then you don't have to choose between that and ancient magic, you can take both.

 

That's just an idea for future readers, considering that you're already lvl 42+.

If I had to choose, I'd take ancient magic as well.

[idbeholdME 394]

31 minutes ago, Lindor said:

Hmm with concentration, devout guardian focus and warding energy lore you got three skills just to efficiently use one spell. Even if it's one of the best buffs. Is that really worth it? It's fun arguing over that kind of stuff.

I'd say DGF and WEL is mandatory on pretty much every TG. Too much survivability is provided by T-Energy Shroud just by picking these 2 skills. The mods on the Shroud are also extremely impactful, so you want at least 3 mod points to get those. As a bonus, you also get to have spare mod points for Combat Alert. It's also a big thing that makes the class unique, along with the Seraphim. When playing a shield class, I'd say there is no reason not to use it.

As for Concentration, it depends on the build. But if you're not a pure melee Devout Guardian, you will generally want it to keep the regen times low. Doubly so if you plan on running Shroud along with Untouchable Force or modded Combat Alert.

[Lindor 438]

On 2/26/2024 at 7:24 PM, idbeholdME said:

I'd say DGF and WEL is mandatory on pretty much every TG.

I don't know. That's a pretty absolute statement. Constitution and spell resistance can have quite an impact. Also Combat Reflexes can have a huge impact. I have a dryad with combat reflexes and shield lore, she can stand in the middle of an elite panther pak for hours and not get hit once. Not even bloodclaw seems to be able to hit her.

[ErTasiTroll 4]

Considering that TG is somewhat different in that all his buffs provide so much: meele & magic reflection, which is in spell resistance, as well as block projetile, I would say that it's optimal. 

DGF boosting T-Energy Shroud, Combat Alert as well as Deathly Spears so it isn´t only one spell.

Played drayed up to level 30 or something and I could stand in enemies till tomorrow with the high defense no attack ever actually went through, farming Survival Bonus. 

Just my thoughts as of right now.

[gogoblender 3,070]

On 2/23/2024 at 5:46 PM, ErTasiTroll said:

I finally got into my account again, will continue to use this account 

Bravo! (yay it works! ) 

and welcome back to the friendly forums ErTasiTroll!!

gogo

 

[idbeholdME 394]

18 hours ago, Lindor said:

I don't know. That's a pretty absolute statement. Constitution and spell resistance can have quite an impact. Also Combat Reflexes can have a huge impact. I have a dryad with combat reflexes and shield lore, she can stand in the middle of an elite panther pak for hours and not get hit once. Not even bloodclaw seems to be able to hit her.

Ebergy Shield characters are the ones where I usually forego Constitution. Especially TG as his shield absorbs 60% of the damage by default. Only 40% going into health means you don't really need that much HP; as long as you make sure the shield doesn't drop.

The 50:50 split on the Seraphim is more questionable. There, I would strive for the HP and Shield to always have the same values. If you want to be safe, Constitution is worth it. But on the TG, I feel like it's an unnecessary overkill. Although it would be mandatory on a shield-less Guardian.

Combat Reflexes is very easily supplemented with gear. Later on, you can get 40+% chance to evade from a single gear piece. And it only works against melee and ranged. Don't think I've ever picked it so far. Spell Resistance is far superior in every regard and has one of the most powerful Mastery bonuses in the game.