39 replies to this topic

[trickyz173]

Gogoblender suggested that I post this here on the DM forums original post can be found at: http://forum.sacrede...ead.php?t=58666


After reading the class forums and studying up on the TG, I decided to play one. I found lost fusion to be lack luster and most of the Combat Arts in Source warden are for support/pulling mobs. So the Primary tree for me was Devout Guardian. Another thing I learned right off the bat was that this class is highly dependant on moding which is fine for me. I feel that the moding aspect of sacred 2 is one of the best parts of the game. My focus was to find out what the TG could do If I focused on damage and very little on defense. Mainly I found that for standard trash mobs the TG absolutely destroys large packs. With T-energy shroud modded for Derogate and Battle Aura moded for Counter strike along with Untouchable Force (at level 75) as standard Area of Effect. Combined with Fiery Ember or Icy Evanescence running the damage really begins to add up. I also enjoy Charged grid due to the fact that it moves with you and has a large range. So this brings me to my final and probably most overlooked CA in the TG arsenal, Deathly spears moded with Jab.
Deathly spears is our boss killer, it may seem slow and unworkable at first but ranked up high enough, it alone can kill a boss. The Mod Jab sends out extra waves of spikes at CA level 1 with the jab mod you get 2 waves of spikes at CA level 16 you have 3 waves, at CA level 42 you have 4 waves at CA level 62, 5 waves and so on every 20 CA levels(I have not gone past CA level 82). The best part about DS is that it keeps going off as I switch to Battle Extension and melee down anything that is left over. Most basic trash mobs die in one hit from the spikes, ranked up and boosted with Tactics lore and Combat Discipline. Bosses due to their large size (larger hit box) can get hit by many of the spikes from each wave. During an encounter with a dragon that flew over me, which allowed me to get right under him and hit him with a full burst of DS, it took his health down about 65%. As a Final benefit DS is considered an Area of Effect attack so anything shrouded or shadowed can still be hit by this attack, so watch out SW's. I found that oddly enough DS is considered a spell and not a physical attack if you take a look in the details it will list spell intensity and spell resistance for the CA and damage can be boosted by putting points into Intelligence but it is not worth it. It does however get increases in damage from both Tactics lore and Combat discipline as well as any armor or enchant that adds + dmg%. DS also does mostly elemental damage based off whatever element your main hand is enchanted with. This is also true for shield damage and UF pulses making the TG very versatile in damage output.
Well I hope this damage review helps encourage more people to play the TG. I really have enjoyed playing this class. It may not be great at the start but that’s the nice thing about TG it seems that every 2-5 levels I have something new to look forward to.

[Viper007]

nice info I have never used spikes....Ill deff give them a shot when I start lvling tg again.

[Zinsho]

I did some videoing last night with my TG that's fairly similar to the build in question, although my Deathly Spears is still a little weak at times.

First to demonstrate Fiery Ember (Do note that Werewolves are Fire Resistant)


Then Icy Evanescence, which I have not yet modded


Then me vs the Swamp Dragon


Then vs Facetteleon

Now for my character setup. These values are slightly off, I changed my helmet since so added +2 to Source Warden and +1 all skills, however I'm over max on everything so those values are limited.

Combat Alert (Used mostly vs bosses as a buff)
Level 43.0
Modded for:
* Barricade (+Defense)
* Riposte (Reflect Melee)
It provides:
* +470% Attack and Defense
* 69.1% Reflect Melee
* 23.6s duration
* Regenerates is 29.5s on mount, 25.7s on foot. (15s Cooldown included)

Deadly Spears (Used at the end of my Area of Effect combo, and then on it's own as raw damage)
Level 19
Modded for:
* Batter (+Knockback)
* Singe (+Fire Damage)
* Wound (+Damage over Time)
It provides:
* 792-792 damage without Combat Alert, I believe it's roughly 1k damage with
* 597 Physical + 195 Fire
* Regenerates in 4.2s on mount, 3.1s on foot

Charged Grid (Used after both Icy and Fiery)
Level 32
Modded for:
* Havoc (+Damage)
* Unnatural Selection (+Damage after threshold)
* Longevity (+Duration)
It provides:
* 248-248 Magic Damage
* +270 Life healed
* 9.3m radius
* 16.2s duration
* Regenerates in 36.2s on mount, 34.8s on foot. Now note: Charged Grid has a 30s fixed cooldown, so the regeneration is actually quite low.

Fiery Ember (Main killer for mobs)
Level 41.5
Modded for:
* Incinerate (+Fire Damage)
* Churn (Further decreases enemy fire resists)
* Sustain (+Duration)
It provides:
* 378-378 Fire Damage
* -42.4% Fire Resist
* +18.2% Ice Mitigation
* 18m Radius (this is huge, if it isn't obvious)
* 19.1s duration
* Regenerates in 35.0s on mount, 30.8s on foot. (Including the 15s cooldown)

Icy Evanescence
Level 40.1
Modded for:
* Not modded at all yet
It provides:
* 242-242 Ice Damage
* -18.0% Ice Resist
* +18.0% Fire Mitigation
* 18m Radius
* 12.0s duration
* Regenerates in 34.5s on mount, 30.3s on foot. (Including the 15s cooldown)

I currently have just over 50% deathblow (53.1% I believe), so when things start hurting, they go down fast. If people are interested in pics of the other values on my character I can provide them later this week probably, got this done last night just before bed.

[Silearth]

Hmmm. I may have to give this one a try. I have failed at every attempt to make a TG, using only the DG tree.

[gogoblender]

trickyz173, thanks for coming on over here and posting up your topic. I've given TG a go with ranged, but it turned out so buggy I kept him as a trader in silver. I think what caught my eye about your build when I was first reading about it was how someone was touting the TG's prowess v.s. Bosses which was an eye opener. Most of the builds and discussions I had been reading about were about how the TG was so good at drawing mobs and fire away from other toons in party directly to the TG where his Area of Effect was slowly melting everything on screen down.

It was actually Coruskane who I had met in game one day who had mentioned how successful his spears was at taking out mobs and bosses...he sounded thrilled.

Maybe with this kind of direction I'd be tempted to give the doggie another try, specially with the videos Zin has gotten going here on this topic with a successful TG in action as inspiration.



gogo

p.s. Tricky if you have time, maybe you could spec out this topic's first post with your skill points alocations and gear you think work best for you? If we can get this info into more of a guide format we can move this topic to Temple Guardian Guides for readers to feast hungry eyes upon.

[FrostElfGuard]

Are TG's Deadly Spears the combat art that Underworld (S1) Demons (NPC) used? I remember that with great fear! It was nasty!

[trickyz173]

p.s. Tricky if you have time, maybe you could spec out this topic's first post with your skill points alocations and gear you think work best for you? If we can get this info into more of a guide format we can move this topic to Temple Guardian Guides for readers to feast hungry eyes upon.
[/quote]

Sure gogo not a problem. When you first look at TG and the skills that work well with this class, it makes you wish Ascaron had given the TG three extra skill slots. I am going to try to severly narrow down the skills that make TG a boss killer and a trash killer. Hopefully this will give everyone a bit of versatility with this TG build.

SKILLS;

Devout Gaurdian Focus- This is the must have Skill for this build. It allows you the mod points you need to get your TG going. It also gives you a much needed reduction in CA regen. It also allows you to take Concentration and Combat DIscipline as skills.

Concentration- Just as important as DGF this skill gives you the extra buff slot and reduced regens.

Tactics lore- A great skill to boost your melee/CA damage by a considerable amount and gives you more needed mod points for the Devout Gaurdian aspect.

Combat Discipline- Increases the Damage of all of our Combat Arts, it is a must have for any damage build.

I really want to put Sword/hafted and Source Warden Focus/lore up here but the truth is you can do without it and still get by. However they are very close to the top and I would suggest taking them.

If you want to go with Bargaining (to make a shopper) I would suggest Armor Lore and Toughness, These skills can make a major impact when you have the right armor/orbs like the Prototype LI 189 chestpiece. Unfortunately you can't always guarantee you are going to get specific pieces and you need to take one other general skill to get bargaining.

Armor Lore, Combat reflexes, Constitution, Warding Energy Lore and toughness all make excellent choices for defensive skills. I wish I could fit them all into this build. It really comes down to what your playstyle is.

MODS;

The following Mod recomendations are for my personal play style I know some like to keep combat alert as a CA and not a buff and if that works for you then do it. Personally I do not want to find myself recasting Combat alert throughout a boss fight also I would hardly even keep it up during trash kills. As a buff its main use for me was to keep my defense up and reflect melee damage.
If I was starting a new TG I would mod as follows:
Combat Alert 1. Barricade 2. Riposte 3.Permanent
T-Energy Shroud 4.Derogate 5.Recharge
Deadly Spears 7.Batter 8.Occult/Singe 9.Jab
T.Energy Shiled 10. Power
Dedicated Blow 11.Bedazed 12.Intent 13.Enforce

If you choose to take SWF and/or SWL as a skill my suggestion would be to mod out UF first if you did not make Combat Alert a buff. If you did make Combat alert a buff then you will not be using UF as a buff untill level 75 if you are maxing concentraion. In that case I would mod;
Fiery Ember 1.Scald 2.Churn (Scald for bosses)
Charged Grid 3.Havoc 4.Unnatural Selection
Untouchable Force 5. Field Damage 6. Calm 7.Field damage
Primal Mutation 8.Theurgy 9.Helpless 10 Helpless (Primal mutation can provide a very good debuff for boss fights)
Fiery Ember 11.Conservation
Charged grid 12.Longevity

GEAR;

If you do not have Bargaining, three pieces of Combat Modules and three pieces of T-energy Modules gives you a great boost to + all skills and has a decent amount of slots. The XTM-2174 is a great set for slots but has a very bad set bonus. If you have bargaining I would suggest two sets of gear one to boost up your bargaining skill and the other for actual combat.

If you enjoy using Dedicated Blow or Combat Extension(the CA not the auto attack) then damage rings are the way to go. Damage rings that give, for example, 11-11 damage give the best increase in damage out put for DB and CE as well as the standard melee strike.

If you want to focus on increasing the overall damage out put of all your Combat Arts then you want to focus on items that increase damage by x%, make sure it is yellow for physical, as rings with elemental damage will only effect certain Combat Arts. One trick, if you have a character in a higher difficulty or a very high level blacksmith, you can take items with sockets put them in your shared chest then switch over to a high level toon and have a blacksmith put whet in the socket. This will not increase the level of the item and can give your damage a huge boost at low levels.

For your three ring slots and one amulet slot I would not suggest using +damage% rings/ammies this will not give you as much increase as "whet". I typically use my ring/ammie slots for + skill or + aspect gear. Also great spots for defensive stats as well.

Edited by trickyz173, 24 April 2009 - 10:22 AM.

[Silearth]

Going to have to give this one another try. I got one to level 7, I think and it's fun to round up kobolds and set off ember. The sudden rush of drops reminds me of popcorn popping.

But when he got to the Kobold boss he couldn't do anything no matter what CA he used. Even his god spell had no effect.

[trickyz173]

Attempting to video link this boss kill the url is http://www.youtube.c...h?v=Q3OCiiioRJc. Sorry about the audio I had my sound settings switched to my head set. Anyway this is a boss kill in Platinum difficulty against a dragon with 218,531 hp the video is 14 seconds long. 218,531/14 = 15,609 damage per second(dps) definately proves the TG viability against single target bosses. Basically I run in there hit him with a DS wave and melee then I failed to switch back to spikes and hit him with CE but it gives a good idea of how much damage DS can do. Silearth the tg starts out at a disadvantage untill some very important Combat Arts get moded. On the first miniboss, the kobold king, I would suggest using a weapon with "chunk of lava" in it. The fire damage really helps keep down his rapid health regen.

[youtubehd]Q3OCiiioRJc&ap=%2526fmt%3D18">

Here is a newer video thats a bit better DS is the only attack I use vs a

[Llama8]

Very impressive video Tricky, I'd be interested to see your stats (skills, CA levels, Invent page & damage).

[trickyz173]

Here are the screen shots you asked for. I have only truly focused on two things damage and +devout gaurdian aspect. You can also notice how low my Hp/Hp regen is as well as with shields and shield regen. My + to all skills is fairly low and you can see I have a high chance to be hit and my melee accuracy against this boss is very low. I was lucky to find good combinations of set gear and spent alot of time getting the right ammies/rings for this build. If I was to go in to fight the nameless gaurdians I would not wear this gear or I would change up some sockets. If things go well, in a few weeks I can get a video of the forth nameless gaurdian in Platinum, then you can see me run around like a little girl trying to avoid a one shot. I really hope that anyone looking at this will not be under the false assumption that all Temple Gaurdians can do this kind of damage without sacrificing alot of other useful stats.

This was taken right after the video

These next two shots are at my current level 108 with some gear changes. Now if I could only find a level 120 Arm Part EN-24 to get a 5 piece set bonus.

Edited by trickyz173, 24 April 2009 - 11:46 AM.

[gogoblender]

Niobium dragon kill with a Temple Guardian...S I C K!

lol, this is an amazing build. I'm always delighted to see what people can distill from the game. You've definitely given us inspiration to keep trying the new and wild.

Good job Tricky!



gogo

p.s. is this kind of kill speed on a Niobium Dragon possible with a build in HC ?

[trickyz173]

p.s. is this kind of kill speed on a Niobium Dragon possible with a build in HC ?

There are only 4 skills you need to replicate what I have done(listed above in my build post). As long as the other 6 skills are chosen wisely I dont see why this could not be done in HC. In my experience there are only 2 bosses that give me problems, the Banshee(chapter 2 miniboss) and the 4th nameless gaurdian.
Some trash mobs may cause problems in low levels but once you get this build established you will decimate anything that is not a boss.

If you wanted to do this in HC I would advice leveling to level 5 or 10 in bronze then move up once you have the first few skills established. Be prepared for the long haul, you may not see good results untill level 75+. If you want to play it very safe make sure your armor/def is up to par and/or avoid boss fights that put you at risk.

[bobblehead]

Cool build -- my starting build is similar to this, but I would have never thought DS would be so good.

A couple questions though (sorta noob).

Tactics Lore: Increases damage dealt with equipped weapons as well as the chance for Critical Hits. Enables the use of modifications for weapon-based Combat Arts. (Sacred2wiki)
How does DS benefit from this:) Isn't DS just melee CA damage and not based of weapon equiped:)

Sword/Halfed Weapon: I'm a bit confused about the DS mechanics, but did you advise picking up one of these to benefit DS or for DB:)

Stats: not quite sure what stats to pump. Is there a stat that would increase DS damage? I know int increases the other CAs that do "magic" damage, but DS is physical dam (str:)) I see from your ss that you put stats into Vitality, but if your HP rarely fluctuates/dips then is there a need to put stat points there? What attribute stats should I focus on when using this build (similar build)


I've always played a caster and things were simple, pump int and +spelldam....

Edited by bobblehead, 20 May 2009 - 05:55 PM.

[trickyz173]

Cool build -- my starting build is similar to this, but I would have never thought DS would be so good.

A couple questions though (sorta noob).

Tactics Lore: Increases damage dealt with equipped weapons as well as the chance for Critical Hits. Enables the use of modifications for weapon-based Combat Arts. (Sacred2wiki)
How does DS benefit from this:) Isn't DS just melee CA damage and not based of weapon equiped:)

I wish I knew according to the tool tip it shouldnt benefit from Tatics, but it does.

Sword/Halfed Weapon: I'm a bit confused about the DS mechanics, but did you advise picking up one of these to benefit DS or for DB:)

The attack speed from sword/hafted effects the cast times of all Combat Arts in the Devout Gaurdian aspect, again not sure why but thats what it does.

Stats: not quite sure what stats to pump. Is there a stat that would increase DS damage? I know int increases the other CAs that do "magic" damage, but DS is physical dam (str:)) I see from your ss that you put stats into Vitality, but if your HP rarely fluctuates/dips then is there a need to put stat points there? What attribute stats should I focus on when using this build (similar build)

Int is the stat that effects DS but the return on points spent in int is very very poor, maybe 1 point of damage for 2-4 points spent in int. Your best bet is to go with stamina, lower regen times mean more overlapping waves of DS which equals more damage. I know in the vids I don't get hit but dragons are predictable most bosses will do a bit of damage and you want to farm large pools of bad guys for good xp grinds, so extra health never hurts. I advise the same thing that Zinsho does 50% stam 50% vit.

I've always played a caster and things were simple, pump int and +spelldam....

I knew a rogue in wow with that name, probably not the same guy though...

Edited by trickyz173, 20 May 2009 - 10:42 PM.

[bobblehead]

thanks a bunch!! this clears up sooo much

nah I was always a caster class -- mage or priest

[Loggjaw]

I just started this build on 360. I think its awesome, I have been playing a SW a ton, it was my first toon but you know he was not that great. Now this TG is very fun to play and pretty hard right now (level 18 Silver) but I am taking it slow and really enjoying my time.

[Avarice]

I just started this build on 360. I think its awesome, I have been playing a SW a ton, it was my first toon but you know he was not that great. Now this TG is very fun to play and pretty hard right now (level 18 Silver) but I am taking it slow and really enjoying my time.

hey tricky....u suggested mods for the Combat Arts on a list u posted..however they are slightly different in you're pics.. plz explain. Did u already mod these and in retrospect thought differently?

[trickyz173]

I just started this build on 360. I think its awesome, I have been playing a SW a ton, it was my first toon but you know he was not that great. Now this TG is very fun to play and pretty hard right now (level 18 Silver) but I am taking it slow and really enjoying my time.

hey tricky....u suggested mods for the Combat Arts on a list u posted..however they are slightly different in you're pics.. plz explain. Did u already mod these and in retrospect thought differently?

Yes it was done looking in retrospect. That TG was my first go at the class so I was just trying things out as I leveled.

[buttfedora]

Tricky, I need your opinion.

Im not using any general skills, and I want a weapon skill.

I have plenty of weps, those arent an issue, I have a 91 HE. Im on the ps3.

Sword of hafted weps? Which, in the long run, has the better weps? Im using an officer saber right now