Fewer Hits per kill improves drops! No it doesn't! Yes it does!

[Schot 407]

I see, understood. For once I'm glad that I have the PS3 version instead of PC.

 

Heh. Indeed! You guys lucked out with Bargaining AND forging any level items.

 

Download link should be ok now. I'm still in the process of setting up upload/download functionality.

[SolomonGrundy 1]

On this question of 1 point bargaining (low level) vs 1 point bargaining level 100 on console vs PC

 

- this may be a moot point, since I think we can all agree that a level 25 character with 25 in bargaining, and some relics with + bargaining WILL still see a huge difference in shops vs a character with NO bargaining.

 

 

 

Given this, my point was that things like kill speed affecting drops would be a GLARING difference, not an incremental or arguable one - especially if we are talking one shot kills vs slow laborious deaths.

[FrostElfGuard 9]

Just poking around, I noticed in this thread someone was playing with quality for each bucket: in post3 we have:

 

ZRareExpectation15 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation14 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation13 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation12 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation11 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation10 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation09 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation08 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation07 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation06 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation05 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation04 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation03 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation02 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation01 = 1000,

ZRareExpectation00 = 1000,

 

What this will do is give you access to the best quality drop in each of the 16 buckets. Uniques are bucket 15, Sets are bucket 14.

These entries above are set to 100%. That is: always. So. We can bet that potions, gold1, gold2, will 3 of the buckets at low end...

(animals)

 

The grey, white (standard), blue (magic), yellow (rare) will probably cover buckets 3 to 13... probably with grey (crud), grey, better grey, crud white, white, good white... etc...

 

There is another setting for how many drops per bucket...

 

I had suggested to Ascaron that they use a sine wave pattern based on minutes in an hour to help regulate the 'random' number used to pick the bucket when talking about chest/barrel drops. That would allow an easy way to vary the quality of the drops that keeps you guessing... Perhaps they took note? Perhaps it is hubris for a programmer to suggest to game devs how to improve things... but hey, what the heck!

 

When I was testing in SP I set the

 

SUBFAMDROP_LOWCHANCE = 10,

SUBFAMDROP_HIGHCHANCE = 100,

 

both to 1000... which I *think*set the limits for a drop for each bucket type. 1% to 10% chance. So. Could we have 2 drops per bucket allowed by the monster type?

(Eg animals have 2 potion buckets and 2 gold buckets)

 

Further investigation is required.

Edited April 14, 2010 by FrostElfGuard

[claudius 104]

I've always been disappointed in barrel drops in sacred 2 and also the glimmering things on the ground. I don't even bother with them anymore!

[essjayehm 58]

I've always been disappointed in barrel drops in sacred 2 and also the glimmering things on the ground. I don't even bother with them anymore!

 

I got a set piece last week from a magical hiding place!

 

Probably the only one I'll ever get

[Dragon Brother 619]

Sets will sometimes drop out of magical hiding places or barrels. Ive found that they drop most often for me from the barrels in the area leading up to the 4 nameless guardians.

Edited April 16, 2010 by Dragon Brother

[essjayehm 58]

[random thought]

 

Kill speed could work to enhance the drops by adding some amount to your chance to find valuables. Either "time to kill" or "number of hits" could be translated into a bounus to MF.

 

[\end random thought]

 

Nothing to see here, folks... carry on.

[Rusto 0]

This is a mysterious game sometimes lol!

[FrostElfGuard 9]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (months ago) I was tinkering in SP with the game parameters for drops.

 

When I did that, I cranked up drop quality to maximum. I also, somehow (did a lot of tinkering without documenting as I went...DOH!), increased the number of drops.

 

When twinked, at one point I completed the Kobold Chieftain quest in the start village.... and got about 10 set items dropping from the quest completion. That was weird! It would be nice to know what variables affected this... but I had changed so many of that point that this remains unknown.

 

Twinked, I would get set and uniques showing up regularly from chests and barrels. Untwinked, I've received 1 unique and about 2 set items from my 2 years of playing untwinked--I can't usually pass up a barrel or chest!

[Dragon Brother 619]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (months ago) I was tinkering in SP with the game parameters for drops.

 

When I did that, I cranked up drop quality to maximum. I also, somehow (did a lot of tinkering without documenting as I went...DOH!), increased the number of drops.

 

When twinked, at one point I completed the Kobold Chieftain quest in the start village.... and got about 10 set items dropping from the quest completion. That was weird! It would be nice to know what variables affected this... but I had changed so many of that point that this remains unknown.

 

Twinked, I would get set and uniques showing up regularly from chests and barrels. Untwinked, I've received 1 unique and about 2 set items from my 2 years of playing untwinked--I can't usually pass up a barrel or chest!

 

It could be that the line you are looking for is:

"QUEST_UNIQUE = 1000"

It seems like it rings a bell...I did mess around with it a while back but cant remember properly....sigh.

 

As to barrels dropping sets and uniques, run through the great machine area and they drop them every now and again.

[Etherian 76]

As I mentioned earlier in this thread (months ago) I was tinkering in SP with the game parameters for drops.

 

When I did that, I cranked up drop quality to maximum. I also, somehow (did a lot of tinkering without documenting as I went...DOH!), increased the number of drops.

 

When twinked, at one point I completed the Kobold Chieftain quest in the start village.... and got about 10 set items dropping from the quest completion. That was weird! It would be nice to know what variables affected this... but I had changed so many of that point that this remains unknown.

 

Twinked, I would get set and uniques showing up regularly from chests and barrels. Untwinked, I've received 1 unique and about 2 set items from my 2 years of playing untwinked--I can't usually pass up a barrel or chest!

 

It could be that the line you are looking for is:

"QUEST_UNIQUE = 1000"

It seems like it rings a bell...I did mess around with it a while back but cant remember properly....sigh.

 

As to barrels dropping sets and uniques, run through the great machine area and they drop them every now and again.

 

The traps surrounding the "Great Egg" also drop set items.

 

Perhaps not as often as barrels, but then again, I've broken far more barrels wondering through Ancaria then I have those spawning TG traps.

 

I remain, Etherian

[Dragon Brother 619]

And uniques too, normally I can't be bothered attack them though...guardians only.

[rhs408 7]

After a whole lot more experience playing this game, I am again changing my opinion/flip-flopping as to my answer to this topic. This will definitely be my final opinion, which is that kill speed/number of hits has nothing to do with improving drops in any way shape or form. I am going to directly address a couple of posts made within this topic that make a good case for kill speed improving drops. These posts had certainly influenced my opinion on this, as I'm sure they have many other people reading this topic.

 

My experience is a definite yes to speed of kill = more frequent drops.

 

Case in point is my 95 He that is strong but kills with Area of Effect and dot. she can kill 10 monsters at a time but takes longer to do it. My BFG is a one shot kill. she can kill 10 monsters about as fast as the high elf, but one at a time. both have about the same map revealed, and the HE actually has MF through her set items.

 

the seraphim can fill a chest full of sets. while the HE finds very few. I believe the difference is the speed of the kill.

 

This was a big one, and there it is front and center, the very first reply in this topic. I previously had no basis or experience to argue with this since I had never played a HE. But this is no longer the case... I'm currently playing a Pyro HE, have her up to level 70 at the moment. She also kills with Area of Effect and dot. I have seen absolutely zero difference in drop quality comparing my HE to my hard hitting Niob SW and Inquis. She finds just as many uniques/sets/rares as the other heros I played. I'm certainly not one hit killing with her. Quite often I get good items from oppontents that took a long time to take down. She fills chests with sets just as well as my SW and Inquis do (although at this point I'm often having to scrap sets/uniques, I need more chests...)

 

Locolagarto, I'm assuming that this HE of yours was played during the early days of your Sacred playing? Maybe you didn't know what monsters to fight back then (fighting too many rats/wolves/bats/pigs)? I know that my first hero, a Dryad, hardly found any uniques at all, but looking back now, it wasn't really because I wasn't killing fast enough, I just overall didn't know what the hell I was doing.

 

Or maybe it was just bad luck. But what you described is a stark contrast from what I have experienced thus far with HE, and it sounds like we are killing opponents in the same fashion.

 

There's probably even more factors such as number of players on the server or in your party... With all that I don't think it's far fetched to think that damage also plays a role. Whether it be by number of hits, how much per hit or simply the time it takes to kill. It rewards players who have developed a very good build and who are successful at defeating opponents efficiently. Should players be rewarded the same drop chances where one kills 10 times faster/better than another? Would I think of that as a Dev? Given I would have had experience in the RPG world... I probably would think of that.

 

When developers make a game, you would think that they would as you said "reward players who have developed a very good build and who are successful at defeating opponents efficiently." But developers also must develop the game to be playable by the masses - good players as well as bad players. You do get rewarded by having a good build - you don't die and you kill efficiently. Killing efficiently will likely net you more good items. But an extra drop quality bonus on top of all the bonuses that you already have from your gear and skills? I don't think so... if that were the case, would it not be too easy to abuse? I've yet to read about anyone here successfully "abusing" the drop quality system, other than some folks messing with the game coding.

 

It is a definite yes about the kill speed. I didn't even have to test this theory to figure it out. Just through normal gameplay.

How did I get to that conclusion then?

Well, next time u play, actually pay attention what's happening with drops while u fight and just do this simple test:

 

1. Kill an enemy as fast as u can.

2. Hit an enemy to decrease it's health, but don't kill it. Instead wait a couple of seconds and proceed with the kill.

 

The result should be this:

 

1. At least a blue item, lots of gold, maybe rune etc.

2. Depending how much u waited after a hit, u might actually not get anything.

 

What I strongly believe is that the game starts the "clock" for the drop for a target as soon as the target takes dmg, whether it is from you're direct attack or not (minions, quest companions, reflect dmg from you're buff etc.). And there is no way anyone will convince me differently because I know that every time I killed an enemy fast I got something (blue-yellow-set-unique), while when it happened that it took me a few seconds to kill an enemy because they run away (sandmen to heal for example) in 100% of the case they dropped either a grey item with gold, just gold, or nothing at all.

 

I get a lot of good drops with my fast killers, one shotters and mob nukers, while any enemy that runs away and I have to chase after them and kill them is an extremely poor drop or nothing.

 

Couple the speed killing with good MF and u have urself quite a "finder".

 

Just my $0.2

 

Sorry, I have not experienced this. I've gotten sets from one hit kills, I've gotten just as many from monsters that took one hit and then were on the screen for another 15 seconds before finally dying.

 

 

Next is boss killing. With my HE I am killing bosses far and away faster than ever before (just by using IS). It used to seem like when I took a long time to kill a boss, it would only drop like 5 items instead of 8-9. I now also think that this is just based purely on luck... I kill them very fast every time, but sometimes they drop 5 items, sometimes they drop 8-9. Just the luck of the draw.

 

Lastly, I must offer my apologies to all of the other Neener Naysayers... I should have never doubted you.

 

Cheers,

rhs

[Schot 407]

Lastly, I must offer my apologies to all of the other Neener Naysayers... I should have never doubted you.

 

Cheers,

rhs

 

Haha, great post rhs! I like how you've detailed your opinion. Well written and logical. Though I'm still a DoYah Yaysayer. ^^

[Llama8 8]

When developers make a game, you would think that they would as you said "reward players who have developed a very good build and who are successful at defeating opponents efficiently." But developers also must develop the game to be playable by the masses - good players as well as bad players.

But you also don't want players to flood the "economy" with the higher quality items (sets/uniques/legendaries), since it devalues all items.

 

 

You do get rewarded by having a good build - you don't die and you kill efficiently. Killing efficiently will likely net you more good items. But an extra drop quality bonus on top of all the bonuses that you already have from your gear and skills? I don't think so...

You do, it's called Survival Bonus. Kinda (if you're killing very quickly you may have more "out of combat" time & therefore have a lower SB, or it may just mean that you're running between mobs of monsters in the 5 second window from the last attack/defence calc).