Sacred 2 in Lore

[Fogeltje 0]

I've been wondering how Sacred 2 fits into the Sacred lore that was laid out in Sacred and Underworld and accompanying booklets, which offered us some Ancarian history.

 

The world of Sacred had a few races, humans seemed to be the dominant race, we had three Elven factions, the Wood Elves, Ice Elves and the Dark Elves, there was at least one Dwarf, a bunch of Orcs and Goblins and some other stuff. In Underworld we encountered the Nuk-Nuk which was, as far as I recall the undead Garema tribe. We also encountered Dryads.

 

Well, to Sacred 2. I know it's a prequel. What caught my eye immediately when I read about it when it was still in development phase was the Dryad as a playable character. I think the Dryads from Underworld and the Dryads from Sacred 2 are one and the same. Moreover we encounter Garema in their lands! Also the jungle and the architecture of the destroyed temples in that region are very reminiscent of the Underworld area.

 

That poses a problem to me. The Underworld was a physical and literal Underworld. How can that be? The Dryads and Garema point out to me that we are at least in the same region of Ancaria.

 

There's also the Elven question. We know from Sacred lore that the Seraphim were entrusted with the Heart of Ancaria, eventually got sloppy and the Dark Elves managed to acquire the pieces. The Seraphim were subsequently slaughtered when the Gods send them to reclaim the Heart and the Dwarves saved the day. Sacred 2 must happen long before this in my eyes. While we don't see that many Seraphim, my feeling tells me they are a much stronger faction in Sacred 2 as they have been in Sacred. We also have seen no division of Elves yet. We only have the High Elven civilization which seems to be the dominant civilization in Ancaria at the time.

 

When finishing the Light campaign, the Great Machine gets turned off. I can imagine that this would set in motion the decline of the High Elven civilization. I've always seen the High Elves related to the Dryads so in my eyes the Elves might have slowly reverted to their old ways, being close to nature, albeit forcefully since they were accustomed to a comfortable life thanks to T-Energy. The humans probably better adapted, never having depended on T-energy (when we see High Elven cities we see T-energy flow throughout the cities, like electricity cables, no such thing is seen in humans cities as far as I recall), explaining how the humans might eventually becoming the dominant race in Ancaria. At some point the Elves must have divided, at least the Ice Elves and Dark Elves splitting off.

 

I can't recall if a timeline was ever given in the lore that was presented in Sacred, but my bet is that Sacred 2 must have been set a really long time before Sacred to make all this happen. Which makes the name DeMordrey a bit problematical. It's a direct link between the humans in Sacred 2 and Sacred and while it's not impossible for a family name to survive possibly thousands and thousands of years, it seems a bit improbable to me.

 

And then there's the Underworld problem. I recall from books that the Garema and the Dryads eventually fought a battle where the Garema where annihilated. The Dryads pitied them and embalmed the fallen Garema who would eventually return as the vicious undead Nuk-nuks. I'm having trouble fitting that in with Sacred 2 and Sacred.

 

Perhaps shutting down the T-energy and maybe more wars caused some cataclysmic effected which "buried" part of Ancaria underground, creating the Underworld. Or maybe I'm just rambling. I've just written down some things that floated in my mind. I tried looking at the wiki for this kind of stuff but turned up empty. Has anyone ever delved into this? Is there perhaps some official Sacred lore somewhere?

[Fogeltje 0]

Since this is bugging me, I watched a youtube clip about the Shadow ending. Of course that opens up whole new possibilities. Suppose the Shadow ending were "canon", one evil überbeing could be responsible for the whole Underworld conundrum.

[Steerpike1 53]

I've played a bit of S1 lately, as I'm still fascinated, when I can pull myself away from Sacred 2, in trying to collect all the books. So here's my take on things, based on what I've picked up in both games (bearing in mind the two don't tally).

 

First up, the Dryads separated from the Elves at the end of the First Great War or Dragon Wars, which predate Sacred 2. This is the war mentioned in the entry movie as you start Sacred 2. When the Dryads wen to Menelgond is anyone's guess.

 

There are hints in Sacred 2 and a few more in S1 that the Elves divided later into the Wood and Dark Elves of S1 - this is the war hinted at in Sacred 2 (both light and shadow campaigns leave open the possibility that your actions in seizing control of or shutting down the Great Machine leads to the next geart war). The humans may have gained the upper hand simply by leaving the Elves to fight amongst themselves. The odd thing is that the Dark Elves seem the dominant subtype by the time of S1 - you encounter more of them than you do Wood Elves.

 

Sacred 2 was set 2,000 years before S1, which I agree I have problems with in relation to DeMordrey. The only name I can think of surviving in the real world that long is Caesar, and then it only really exists now as an obselete title (Czar, Tsar, Kaiser). Oh, and a first name, as with the Dog Whisperer (before anyone picks me up on that).

 

Anducar is the dark (Human) spirit that created the Underworld, or took control of it. Various books discussing the Depths of Death talk about him taking control and forcing his dwarven slaves to build a fortress for him appear in S1. I'm still not sure of the relationship between Shaddar from S1 and Anducar from Underworld. I know they are separate people, but how do ther relate?

 

Your memory is good. There was a great war in Menelgond, where Anducar directed the Garema on and on to annihilate themselves. This is where part of the problem arises - the two games differentiate between where the Garema and the Dryads are. In S1, they are placed in Menelgond, which is the underworld, in Sacred 2 they are clearly surface beings. One book in S1 mentions that the Garema had never experienced a world with sunlight, which suggests they were never on the overworld. Or it could be that the jungle is so dense that they never saw the sun because of the foliage.

 

From reading between the lines, there was one more war between the end of Sacred 2 and the start of S1, which split (and finally broke) the Elves' dominance, and allowed the rise of the humans by the looks of things.

 

Unfortunately, if you want to get S1 lore, you have to do it yourself. I've gathered something like 60 books, and I don't think I'm anywhere near the end. I don't know if there's a big enough audience for me to write up the books I've found for Sacred Wiki?

[belgarathmth 21]

@Fogeltje, thank you so much for writing this essay! I have been wondering exactly the same sorts of things!

 

It has always bugged me that a lightside character is expected to destroy the Great Machine. Why not find a way to repair it?

 

I also noticed that the elven civilization was powered by T-energy. What is "good" about destroying an entire civilization because its primary energy source needs repair?

 

It would be like destroying all coal, hydroelectric dams, and nuclear plants in our world because they can harm the environment. Talk about radical environmentalism! More like environmental insane nuttiness! Dangerous insane nuttiness! Was the story written by Timothy McVeigh?

 

As someone who almost always plays the goodside in games, I would have become the T-energy being myself before I would have destroyed civilization. Thus, I would usually play the so-called "darkside" in Sacred 2 if I could stomach the evil sidequest paths, which I can't.

 

I wish you could play one side or the other up until the ending and then choose at the very last scene whether you would destroy the Machine or become its embodiment.

[Fogeltje 0]

@Steerpike

 

You mention some good things that slipped my memory. I don't know how many books my S1 toons picked up. I haven't have it installed at the moment. Maybe it might be a nice thing to reinstall it (have my savegames safely tucked away) and transcribe some books.

 

The Dragon Wars probably explain the final in Sacred 2 with the huge fortress and the many dragon bones (I liked the spikes in the fortress walls, already wondering "probably AA defense" only to find impaled dragons later on).

 

Yes, the split of the Elves must occur after Sacred 2. I wonder of the Ice Elves from Sacred Plus fit in. I'm not sure much thought was put into them lorewise. The Wood Elves probably secluded themselves at some point. From the books in Sacred it seems like the shunned humans mostly. They became a bit more prominent when a human prince (Valorian? The name eludes me right now) rescued a Wood Elf from DeMordreyans, nearly died in the process and then allied with them to defeat DeMordrey at Faerie's Crossing in Mascarrel (from which the town gets the name; Faerie being another word for Elf). The Dark Elves are shown to be much more vicious, probably why they became the dominant force. I can imagine they might have decimated the Wood Elf population. The Wood Elves probably withdrew to the forests, preferring to be closer with nature after the decline of their High Elf civilization and a kin strife. Humans might have indeed become the dominant faction by simply watching from the sidelines. Although we do know the humans had their fair share of conflict as well, mainly with the Orcs, driving them to the desert (from Sacred 1 lore). The Kobolds somehow got lost along the way as well, maybe entering into a war with the Goblins, leaving the ladder the victor.

 

I wasn't aware Sacred 2 was set 2000 years before Sacred, I must have missed that part somewhere, thanks for filling that blank.

 

As far as Menelgond goes (thanks for reminding me off the name!), parts of it, especially the starting area bear a very close resemblances to the Jungle in Sacred 2. That can't be a coincidence. Either the Garema and Dryads were forced Underground somehow (the Garema never having seen sunlight might still be explained by thick jungle foilage, good observation) but it's still remarkable that the ruins found there are identical to ruins found 2000 years earlier. They were ruins then already, thus probably build by an older civilization. Especially the Shadow campaign leaves some options there. It's quite possible that someone imbued with T-energy might be responsible for a cataclysm that sundered Ancaria and put portions of it below the surface. Anducar might have moved to the Underworld after that...or maybe even be that "evil" person who absorbed the T-energy, turning him into a demon.

Edited April 14, 2011 by Fogeltje

[Fogeltje 0]

@belgarathmth

 

T-energy was causing all kinds of problems, destroying the land and the inhabitants. The Great Machine has been around for a very long time so I guess it's safe to say there's no one left who knows how to operate it, maintain it properly, let alone fix things that are broken (and even if they could figure it out, how to get the spare parts?). So they would have to make a trade-off, leave the damaged machine running or shut it down, knowing it will propel the High Elven civilization into chaos. I'm not sure what choice I would make if I were to make it, but I can see how someone might think it's better to just destroy the machine so the world can heal. Leaving the machine running might invite a cosmic cataclysm that wipes out everything (in fact you might draw an analogy with the renewed debate about nuclear energy, some people saying we should get rid of it, even though that will cost us in our welfare, while others say we just depend on it too much and must accept the risks).

 

And I guess I'm like you, I prefer playing for the "good" side as well if I am given a choice. However I want to play through the Shadow campaign, just for the heck of it.

[wolfie2kX 528]

@Fogeltje, thank you so much for writing this essay! I have been wondering exactly the same sorts of things!

 

It has always bugged me that a lightside character is expected to destroy the Great Machine. Why not find a way to repair it?

 

I also noticed that the elven civilization was powered by T-energy. What is "good" about destroying an entire civilization because its primary energy source needs repair?

 

It would be like destroying all coal, hydroelectric dams, and nuclear plants in our world because they can harm the environment. Talk about radical environmentalism! More like environmental insane nuttiness! Dangerous insane nuttiness! Was the story written by Timothy McVeigh?

 

As someone who almost always plays the goodside in games, I would have become the T-energy being myself before I would have destroyed civilization. Thus, I would usually play the so-called "darkside" in Sacred 2 if I could stomach the evil sidequest paths, which I can't.

 

I wish you could play one side or the other up until the ending and then choose at the very last scene whether you would destroy the Machine or become its embodiment.

I think you're missing the point behind what the Great Machine is. It's not about powering civilization. It's about creating T-Energy infused humanoids with vastly superior power. Demigods, if you will. If anything, the High Elves likely tapped into the plumbing feeding the Great Machine to siphon off some of the stuff to power their gear.

 

If you've played through the shadow campaign, you would have seen exactly that happen in the final cutscene as your character gets transformed into a blue glowing, nekkid, presumably all powerful being who happens to be bent toward evil. Unfortunately, the game ends right about there and we don't see the wanton destruction that probably happened afterward.

 

Btw... I highly recommend playing the shadow campaign at least once - if for no other reason than to gain understanding about the game itself. And to see the final cutscene I mentioned so you can see what happens AND hear the blind priest explain what happens. Yes, there are some rather unsavory things to do... But in all fairness, they're not that much different from many of the light side quests. The only real difference is, in perhaps, the motivation behind why you're killing someone off. Apparently, they didn't get the memo that read "Thou shalt not kill..."

 

As far as S1 and Sacred 2 goes... The maps for both games are entirely different. There's no commonality between the two - except, perhaps with the inhabitants. There are also a few things in S1 that you just don't see much of in Sacred 2 - namely the Dwarves. In fact, the only evidence of them - besides the book in Sacred 2 (Dwarves - do they exist?) lies in the cave on the west side of Grunwald. Remember, in S1, there were entire caves - now occupied by Dark Elves - that were once Dwarven property. Continents generally take millions of years to change as drastically as it would have had to do for them to be the same places.

 

The solution - there are multiple continents on Ancaria. I would therefore venture a theory that the inhabitants of the continent in Sacred 2 evacuated to the continent in S1. This is why you find the various races in entirely different orientation to what's going on in Sacred 2.

 

And I do think we have already seen the division between the "Wood Elves" and "Dark Elves" in Sacred 2... The Wood Elves are the "good guys" while the Dark Elves are those who were descended from the Inquisition and it's followers. The Ice Elves are likely a further split from the Dark Elves who chose to steal technology from the Seraphim.

 

Getting back to the post... I don't recall ever getting the order to destroy the Great Machine. Turn it off, yes. Destroy, no. Unless you're in Free Play mode, you're not able to destroy the central core anyhow.

 

The problem with using T-Energy as it stands in Sacred 2 - there's far too much damage to the infrastructure. It's leaking all over the place. And it wouldn't be quite so bad if all it did was leak and maybe coat creatures and kill them off - but this stuff does nasty stuff to them - mutates them into psychotic creatures out to kill everybody and everything around them. And that's not really a good thing. It has the power to reanimate the dead - and that can't ever be a good thing. Good thing they haven't yet incorporated smell into games... I'd venture that some parts of the game would probably be highly unplayable if they did.

[Fogeltje 0]

I've not come across the true purpose of the Great Machine indeed, but it doesn't change the fact that Elves used it to propel their civilization into prosperity and with the machine turned off, that prosperity will probably dwindle.

 

I was thinking about the same lines as far as the division of the Dark Elves goes btw, the Dark Elves being descendants from the Inquisitors. Multiple continents has also occurred to me. That leaves the DeMordrey family name which still posts a problem to me. Not only would it have to survive 2000 years, but also spread to another continent. And there's still the thing with the Dryads and Garema and the architecture found. While I think it's possible for a civilization to have been spread amongst several continents and left their ruins there (the temple ruins in the Jungle) I still wonder how they ended up in the Underworld as well. I really hope Sacred 3 will tap into that piece of Ancarian history.

 

I also wonder if there's a connection between the Dryads and the Elves. The Wood Elves from Sacred are more less what the Dryads are in Sacred 2 (and Underworld). I think those races used to be one and the same, branching off at some point. Probably when the High Elves began using the T-energy to transform their civilization; the Dryads might have preferred not to use it, maybe sensing it's potential danger or simply preferring remaining close to nature. I wonder if in the days of Sacred there were still Dryads living above ground. And if not why they chose to move underground and how the Underworld came into being at the first place.

 

And I've seen the final cutscene with narration (on youtube in poor quality) but I indeed still miss the story before that. I'm sure the Inquisitors found out about the nature of the machine and that this will be unveiled in the Shadow campaign. I can't wait to play it, but I want to properly finish the campaign with my seraphim first (I still have the Dryad Island left to explore and do quests and the expansion areas).

[wolfie2kX 528]

I've not come across the true purpose of the Great Machine indeed, but it doesn't change the fact that Elves used it to propel their civilization into prosperity and with the machine turned off, that prosperity will probably dwindle.

 

I was thinking about the same lines as far as the division of the Dark Elves goes btw, the Dark Elves being descendants from the Inquisitors. Multiple continents has also occurred to me. That leaves the DeMordrey family name which still posts a problem to me. Not only would it have to survive 2000 years, but also spread to another continent. And there's still the thing with the Dryads and Garema and the architecture found. While I think it's possible for a civilization to have been spread amongst several continents and left their ruins there (the temple ruins in the Jungle) I still wonder how they ended up in the Underworld as well. I really hope Sacred 3 will tap into that piece of Ancarian history.

 

I also wonder if there's a connection between the Dryads and the Elves. The Wood Elves from Sacred are more less what the Dryads are in Sacred 2 (and Underworld). I think those races used to be one and the same, branching off at some point. Probably when the High Elves began using the T-energy to transform their civilization; the Dryads might have preferred not to use it, maybe sensing it's potential danger or simply preferring remaining close to nature. I wonder if in the days of Sacred there were still Dryads living above ground. And if not why they chose to move underground and how the Underworld came into being at the first place.

 

And I've seen the final cutscene with narration (on youtube in poor quality) but I indeed still miss the story before that. I'm sure the Inquisitors found out about the nature of the machine and that this will be unveiled in the Shadow campaign. I can't wait to play it, but I want to properly finish the campaign with my seraphim first (I still have the Dryad Island left to explore and do quests and the expansion areas).

 

1.) The DeMordrey name is an easy one. The mass exodus from the Sacred 2 continent to the S1 continent following the collapse of civilization on the Sacred 2 continent thing.

 

2.) The Dryads are actually an offshoot of the High Elves (or whatever they called themselves while they were still living in Ciria Delith. As far as the Dryads, Garema/Nuk Nuk and such living "underground" per se - I don't exactly buy that explanation. If you look at the S1 map, most all of it, except for the very end where you go beat up on Anducar and his minions appears to be at ground level. It's far more believable than the tale that there's day and night by "magical" means under the ground. There's also the matter of that Easter egg in Underworld - a Babylon 5 type ship crashed in the undergrowth of the Dryad region. I can buy the ship crashing through a bunch of trees and falling to the ground - but to have it crash through the surface of the planet, and then crash through the trees AND still be recognizable as a ship of any sort... Nah.. That makes no sense.

 

Once again, I don't think there was any "choice" involved in the move - it was likely something forced on them.

 

3.) As far as the Light Side campaign goes - I think the Great machine and it's vast network of collectors and pumps were supposed to be turned off. What can be turned off can be restarted again once the pipes were fixed. I don't see that exactly leading to the demise of their civilization. A large blue skinned mutated humanoid with a tanker load of T-Energy infused into his system, on the other hand...

[Fogeltje 0]

I get the impression that pretty much no one knew how to operate the Great Machine, let alone maintain all of it. So I don't see them repairing the pipes. Also the machine posed a great risk. Giving someone demi-god like powers is a frightening thing, especially falling into the wrong hands. I think the species in Sacred 2 actually even might go as far as to destroy it in the end if the true purposes becomes known amongst the general populace.

 

DeMordrey's name still makes no sense to me. As I said in my first post, it is possible for a name to survive 2000 years, but I find it highly unlikely. It is of course a nice nod to the original Sacred, having a villain with the same name as one of the main antagonists of the first game.

 

I recall from Underworld that it is actually supposed to be underground. Valor (or rather his ghost) mentions a few portals that lead back to the upper world (as you eventually travel to the upper world for a bit, the Pirate islands for instance). It seems the Underworld was intended to be a physical underworld. A mention is made of Shaddar's tower going far into the Underworld, which makes the tower a physical connection between a world above ground and below ground. Everything in Sacred and Underworld points to that as far as I can tell. There is also the Depths of Death which seem to be an analogy for concepts like Hell or Hades, places that are associated with being subterranean. I'm really not convinced that the Dryads and Nuk-Nuk we meet in Underworld are simply the same moved to a different continent. It also doesn't explain the probably Dwarven architecture we see in Sacred 2. And yes, the Dwarfs are a big question mark. I recall they laboured for Anducar to build his fortress in the Depths of Death, then he annihilated them. Some Dwarfs eventually made it to the upper world where they came to the rescue when the Seraphim were utterly defeated by the Dark Elves only to be wiped out by the same Dark Elves in later times.

 

Of course nothing of Sacred 2's story was conceived when they made Underworld so discrepancies are bound to happen, just look at any franchise (Star Trek *coughs*). But those things always bug me as it gives me the feeling they could have paid a little more attention to their story. And Sacred 2's story for now simply doesn't fit with Underworld.

 

I admit that some cataclysmic event that physically buries part of Ancaria below ground seems very far fetched, but right now that seems the only explanation that makes sense (it can even work in the crashed ship, I know that easter egg btw, it might have crashed in times of Sacred 2).

 

I wasn't aware that High Elves and Dryads are related, I just suspected it. Where does that info come from? I haven't seen anything regarding that yet, however I also haven't done any of the regular jungle quests yet. I just know the Elves are tolerated by the Dryads in their lands for keeping ships at bay. But I have missed a reference yet that gives them a common origin (or maybe I just have missed it, but actually should have seen it). Or is that from the Shadow campaign?

 

I was entertaining the idea that maybe the history told in UW is set even far before Sacred 2. A tribe of Garema, Dryads and Dwarfs might have made it to the surface after all, explaining how they are in the upper world without contradicting anything told in UW. It would even explain the Dwarven architecture found in both UW and Sacred 2. One could assume the Dwarfs started building things again once in the world above. The similarity in the jungle might be explained by the fact both Dryads and Garema looked for something that reminded them of home in Menelgond. It would make all a lot more sense that some world shifting event and it's possible even the Dryads forgot about their ancient underground history. And we never talk to the Dryads in UW so they wouldn't mention it to us, even if they knew some of their brethren that went topside had survived for at least a time. It doesn't explain the spaceship in UW, but I think it's possible...crash through the planet surface, perhaps in a cavernous area which means it might have enough velocity left to keep crashing into an underground jungle. it doesn't explain the absence of Dryads and Garema in the upper world in Sacred, but it's possibly the quietly died out and all records of them were lost. The Dryads might even have merged with a faction of Elves to become the Wood Elves closing a circle (Dryads and High Elves split off at first, only to join one another again later).

 

And maybe Anducar used the Great Machine at some point in history, either before or after Sacred 2 (hell, maybe even be the Shadow Inquisitor doing the Shadow Campaign), becoming very powerful but also twisted (his demon form) by the T-energy.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Fogeltje

[Fogeltje 0]

I just found another discrepancy. The book "Harpies and Gargoyles" from Sacred tells us that Harpies and Gargoyles originate from the time of the War of the Gods. Gargoyles are stone water-spewers animated by Dark Elves.

 

I guess you see the problem. The War of the Gods must have been set before Sacred as the Seraphim were created in it when the goddess Sophia sacrificed herself against Worganar. The Dark Elves don't appear to be around in times of Sacred 2 though. However this is just one book found in Sacred which contradict things, opposed to a whole game setting with multitudes of books, so this could be written off as an oversight and Gargoyles only originating later, after Sacred 2 when the Dark Elven faction emerged.

 

However it's also possible the shift was made already and we just don't see the Dark Elves (or only one branch of them, the Inquisitors). But that makes the Dark Elven society VERY ancient as the War of the Gods must predate the Dragon Wars. The intro states the Seraphim shared their knowledge of the T-energy with the High Elves and that the Great War originated after that. Since the Seraphim were created in the War of the Gods it means that War must predate the Dragon Wars. I'd opt for the oversight issue here, meaning Gargoyles weren't around until much much later. That also would mean that by the time of Sacred 2 the Elements of Ancaria were already scattered across the globe and the Seraphim were still protecting them.

 

However this gives new trouble with the existence of Ogre's in Sacred 2. According to Sacred lore, Orcs were enslaved a time by Dark Elves. Ogre's were the product of breeding enslaved Orc warriors by the Dark Elves ("The ogres are a variant that arose out of the breeding of warriors among the salve Orcs of Mhurag-Nar during their enslavement at the hands of the Dark Elves' empire. Similarities in the word Nar, used by the Dark Elves, and the Orc word Nur, both used to stem from this era of slavery."). That is impossible to reconcile with their existence in Sacred 2 without putting the existence of the Dark Elves before Sacred 2 which leaves the question why we never see or hear from them in Sacred 2.

 

It's possible that even the war to retrieve the elements of Ancaria has already happened and the Dark Elves are just waiting and plotting in the shadow to regain their strength (maybe having some sort of connection with the Inquisitors). However that means the split in the Elves has occured much much earlier, even before the Dragon Wars (going back to the Gargoyle book). Also take note that Mhurag-Nar is a direct reference to the lands of Sacred since Mhurag-Nar is the location where Braverock Castle was later built on if my memory serves me correct. That would mean the areas of the time of Sacred were at least already settled and in contact with the settlements in the Sacred 2 era.

Edited April 15, 2011 by Fogeltje

[belgarathmth 21]

About the DeMordrey name: Are there not still some classical Greek and Latin surnames still in use in modern Greece and in French- and Spanish-speaking countries?

 

Also, over 2,000 years, the language would have evolved into unintelligibility between the historical speakers and the modern speakers, so we can assume that all language in Sacred 1 is translated to be the same as in Sacred 2 for convenience's sake, including proper names.

 

About the continuity problems: These things usually arise due to carelessness on the part of a new team of writers and art people who don't pay enough attention to the materials created by a past team.

 

So we could just write off discrepencies as simple human error from the writers. I guess it's more fun to try to create story bridges that resolve the errors, but the problem with that is that it is an act of creative writing that may or may not be accepted by other players and readers. It is very hard to get fans of a specific mileu within a genre to agree on a "canon" among themselves, especially in fantasy and sci-fi.

 

I've read and participated in a lot of very heated discussions over on the official Dragon Age boards where people would start to argue very emotionally over their interpretations of what was "canon".

 

The fans here at Dark Matters seem to be able to share ideas about the lore in a very congenial manner, though.

 

About the darkside campaign: I have finished it with an inquisitor, and it doesn't shed any new light on the nature of the Great Machine - (mild spoiler?) all that happens is that instead of getting rid of it, your character becomes a T-energy being with the power to do whatever he or she wants. End of story.

 

With both the light and dark campaigns, the writers left the telling of the details very, very vague, leaving it open to speculation and extremely different interpretations by different players.

 

Many people have criticized Sacred 2 for not having a well-written enough or well-thought-out enough main storyline.

 

I still love playing it, though. I play for the addictive gameplay and the beautiful art, colors, and graphics, not for the story. When I want a good story, I play a pure RPG instead of an action RPG. They're not quite the same genre.

Edited April 15, 2011 by belgarathmth

[gogoblender 3,070]

Hi Steerpike

 

I've found the books link from Underworld:

 

http://www.sacredwik...p5/Sacred:Books which is Fogeltje is adding to http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=5892&view=findpost&p=6925569

 

Lots of links in red for books not written out yet, I'm not sure if that list is complete or not, but I remember someone having a very long list of all the books that can be dropped. Underworld Wiki has a fair number of fans reading it still, so if you wanted to add in the write-ups you would have readers.

 

 

 

 

gogo

[Fogeltje 0]

The list is far from complete, it's just all the books I was able to find out on my toons. I shall make a clarifying note on that on the wiki.

[gogoblender 3,070]

I remember seeing a huge list of books that someone had put together as a download?

 

I'll hunt for that

 

 

gogo

 

p.s. Hmm, I think Masteff had something to do with that, I'll send him a pm

[gogoblender 3,070]

Found it!

Yeah it was Masteff

 

http://forum.sacred2.com/showthread.php?t=40274

 

There's a file there (adobe) for scrolls and books listing.

 

 

gogo

[masteff 64]

My UW master list can be found here: http://forum.sacred2.com/showthread.php?t=40274 (WOW! has it really been 5 years since I did that:))

 

Someone before me, in Plus had made a list and had even copied all the writing, but I wasn't enough of a glutton for punishment on that.

 

It has been confirmed as close to officially as possible that there is no reward for reading all books (theory is it was never implemented; I suspect if it was implemented then it got broken by any books added after Ascaron took over the game from that other company).

 

Also you can find download files that contains all or nearly all the scrolls here: http://forum.sacred2.com/showthread.php?t=41841&highlight=downloadable (I checked and the links still to work)

 

EDIT: lol @ Gogo... Gogo pm'd me about the list and then proved resourceful enough to find it himself

Edited April 15, 2011 by masteff

[gogoblender 3,070]

Masteff, great thank you! heh, actually I searched for a while this morning, but ran out cuz of work, but I just hit jackpot a few minutes ago and was able to find your work on SIF

 

Thanks for posting here so quickly

 

 

 

 

gogo

[Steerpike1 53]

Thanks Gogo and Masteff, I knew that someone would have gathered the lore of S1 together somewhere! And it proves that even with my 50+ books gathered so far I still have a long way to go.

 

I only hope that the people putting S3 together try to create a standard background out of all this contrary lore.

 

At Balgarathmth: What we're dealing with in DeMordrey isn't the use of the name. As I mentioned, Ceaser is still used as a first name (as in the guy who presents the Dog Whisperer, Cesar). As far as I know, gold old Julius doesn't have any direct descendents still kicking around*. When it comes down to it, the oldest families we can trace are the royal familes of Europe, which even then can only trace their hereditary back about 800 years (in some cases). Not 2,000. It's highly unlikely that a family will survive with the same name over a 2,000 year period. Others may adopt it (because of Ghinghis, there's a heck of a lot of Khans about in North India, Pakistan and where they have moved to because of diaspora, for example). But there's no ruling dynasty that has lasted 2,000 years to my knowledge.

 

As to the problem with languages changing, the fact is DeMordrey doesn't. In Sacred 2, the dark lord of all naughtiness is Baron DeMordrey, and in S1 2,000 year's later it is Baron DeMordrey Prince Valor, that heroic dupe, sends you to get extra troops from.

 

* As far as I can remember off hand the Julian dynasty, which wasn't a dynasty as we'd recognise it, ended with Caligula. I may be wrong there, but the Julian dynasty was short and marked by brutality and madness (except for Augustus, who was farely rational).

[wolfie2kX 528]

About the DeMordrey name: Are there not still some classical Greek and Latin surnames still in use in modern Greece and in French- and Spanish-speaking countries?

 

Also, over 2,000 years, the language would have evolved into unintelligibility between the historical speakers and the modern speakers, so we can assume that all language in Sacred 1 is translated to be the same as in Sacred 2 for convenience's sake, including proper names.

 

About the continuity problems: These things usually arise due to carelessness on the part of a new team of writers and art people who don't pay enough attention to the materials created by a past team.

 

So we could just write off discrepencies as simple human error from the writers. I guess it's more fun to try to create story bridges that resolve the errors, but the problem with that is that it is an act of creative writing that may or may not be accepted by other players and readers. It is very hard to get fans of a specific mileu within a genre to agree on a "canon" among themselves, especially in fantasy and sci-fi.

 

I've read and participated in a lot of very heated discussions over on the official Dragon Age boards where people would start to argue very emotionally over their interpretations of what was "canon".

 

The fans here at Dark Matters seem to be able to share ideas about the lore in a very congenial manner, though.

 

About the darkside campaign: I have finished it with an inquisitor, and it doesn't shed any new light on the nature of the Great Machine - (mild spoiler?) all that happens is that instead of getting rid of it, your character becomes a T-energy being with the power to do whatever he or she wants. End of story.

 

With both the light and dark campaigns, the writers left the telling of the details very, very vague, leaving it open to speculation and extremely different interpretations by different players.

 

Many people have criticized Sacred 2 for not having a well-written enough or well-thought-out enough main storyline.

 

I still love playing it, though. I play for the addictive gameplay and the beautiful art, colors, and graphics, not for the story. When I want a good story, I play a pure RPG instead of an action RPG. They're not quite the same genre.

1.) DeMordrey - That's likely so. It's also the case in other languages as well.

 

2.) Not only issues with language - but there's also 2 other factors to consider...

 

a.) The people who write the history books are the victors, not the losers. Historians tend to write the tale to make their party look more heroic - and the baddies look more.. well. bad. Over time, such tall tales can become accepted as gospel fact. Look at the light side quest in the Orc territory where you have to retrieve the sword of one Gammbrain the Mighty - who, according to the story, took down dozens of demons before being taken out himself. And the look of disappointment on the Orc's face when you bring him that rusty lump of iron you found in his grave...

 

b.) There's also the phenomenon where you have 100 people lined up and you tell the first person something and have him pass it on down the line and by the time you get to the end of the line, the message sounds nothing like what you started out with. You tell the first person "Billy has a blue ball" and by the time the last person gets it, he's thinking Willy is in dire need of finding some relief from being overstimulated by women... Never mind that Billy is only 5 years old and his ball is one of those big plastic/rubber balls you find in supermarkets. There's a specific name for this - and I can't recall what it's called offhand.

 

3.) I hear you on disagreements on what is canon - and what isn't. A while back I wrote 5 short tomes - that will, hopefully, make it into the CM Patch. Most all of the feedback I got for the story was quite positive. Except for one person who I will not name. I'm not quite so sure I want to start that argument up again at the moment. The original story you can read on my post on DarkMatters called "My Christmas Present To The Community"... The story has gone through the editing wringer a few times and a few things had to be change - typos and the like - but some things will need further editing to make it fit into the canon a bit better before it actually gets published as part of the CM Patch.

[wolfie2kX 528]

I wasn't aware that High Elves and Dryads are related, I just suspected it. Where does that info come from? I haven't seen anything regarding that yet, however I also haven't done any of the regular jungle quests yet. I just know the Elves are tolerated by the Dryads in their lands for keeping ships at bay. But I have missed a reference yet that gives them a common origin (or maybe I just have missed it, but actually should have seen it). Or is that from the Shadow campaign?

 

 

I know I read that somewhere. Not quite sure where it was though. But here's a hint:

 

 

Look at the ears..

[Schot 407]

Ah, this I remember. "The Dryads are descendants of the ancient Elves of the south..."

 

Book 4 - Dyr Lain

 

P.s.

I have a feeling that Dryad's Become Wood Elves and High Elves become Dark Elves. Just a feeling though.

[Fogeltje 0]

Ah, this I remember. "The Dryads are descendants of the ancient Elves of the south..."

 

Book 4 - Dyr Lain

 

P.s.

I have a feeling that Dryad's Become Wood Elves and High Elves become Dark Elves. Just a feeling though.

 

That's of course a whole new look on things. Regardless of what the machine was, turning it off will have had an enormous effect on the High Elves (assuming they weren't able to repair the plumbing and turn it back on). I think a lot of them will have been very angry to give up their prosperity, probably not even caring for all the damage the leaking T-energy had done.

 

@Wolfie: I'll read what you wrote later tonight, I'm curious

[Steerpike1 53]

"I wasn't aware that High Elves and Dryads are related, I just suspected it. Where does that info come from?"

 

It's in the game manual introduction:

 

"This conflict culminated in a great war during which dragons, Temple Guardians, Humans and Orcs joined forces against the High Elves. But the High Elves were far too powerful and defeated their enemies. It was however a costly war. All of Ancaria lay in ruins. The Dryads separated from the High Elves and withdrew to an island."

 

Having re-read that, it could be that the Dryads were already a seperate specie and merely left the High Elves at the end of the great war. Given that they aren't mentioned in the list of warring people, however, I'd say that the end of the war was the schism that created the Dryads as a distinct people, separate to the High Elves.

 

Schot - that's an interesting idea. I had sort of assumed that the Dark Elves formed out of the followers of the Inquisition, and the Wood Elves perhaps out of the nobility who opposed them. Your idea makes a bit more sense, though. Why would city loving Elves return to the forests to become Wood Elves?

 

Wolfie - not only the ears, but also the odd taste in eye makeup. Mind you, that would mean the Seraphim is also related!

 

(One of the reasons I love roleplaying games is working out the lore in the background!)

Edited April 16, 2011 by Steerpike1

[Schot 407]

I have to admit I'm getting a bit caught up in this. I remember how fun doing the Sacred 2 books was. All the interesting little tid bits of info. It's making me want to revisit Underworld. There's a LOT of missing book entries in the Underworld section of the wiki; Books. Not only that but compared to the list masteff provided there's a great deal more to add to the present list on the wiki. Bet there's tons of info in those missing books.