gogoblender 3,406 Posted January 17, 2009 Schot has just gotten the table and list up on the Wiki: Sacred 2 Weapon Table If anyone here can help fill out the stats the info is really going to be useful gogo
gogoblender 3,406 Author Posted January 17, 2009 I've found two threads regarding weapon classification in the SIF: http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron-net.com/sho...ead.php?t=54812 and http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron-net.com/sho...ead.php?t=55523 Question....is the way the table set up in the Wiki the best way to tackle this classifying? gogo
Zinsho 0 Posted January 17, 2009 When looking through it, I saw a few sub-classes of items missing but at the same time it seemed almost like there were too many rows. If you look in Hafted Weapons: Is there any difference between an axe and a club in-game wise? Do they get different bonuses from Str (As in at 100 STR do they both get +XX damage or is one +XX the other +YY)? If the answer is no, then Hafted Weapons should really just have 2 rows to it: 1-H Hafted Weapons and 2-H Hafted Weapons. I'm fairly certain that equipping wise that's where the division is made. For ranged that would mean: Bows (Including longbows/shortbows), Thrown Weapons (knives, daggers, stars, shurikens), Blowpipes (And hollowshoots), Energy Guns, Energy Staves Magic Staves: 1H and 2H (Doggy can't use the 2h variety obviously) The only two worth the effort of subdividing are polearms and swords in my opinion, since the names do seem to hint whether they are dex or str based from what I can tell. In that case knowing the subdivision is definitely worth it. Of course if my example with hafted is true, then we will need to subdivide by weapon type to account for the varieties of bonuses. (The only other element worth potentially adding to the table would be the skill based unlocks, although I'm partly thinking it should be done in a separate table). In other words, sort the skill unlocks via the unlock, then include all the weapon types that provide that, since some weapons can have MANY options.
Moander 0 Posted January 17, 2009 <Partial crosspost from the official forum> In the "sacred 2\scripts\shared" there are a few files that seems to the data files for items/weapons In "typification.txt" we can for example find newTypification = { id = 4, name = "CLF_SWORD", stat = "STAT_STR", modreal = 1000, modfocus = 0, modbasepoints = 1000, bonusgroupID = 89, weapondamagespread = 100, fightdistance = 35.000000, } mgr.createTypification(4, newTypification); and in "itemtypes.txt" we have newItemType = { -- standard info renderfamily = "RENDERFAM_WEAPON", family = "FAMILY_WEAPON", subfamily = "SUBFAM_PRI_SWORD", classification = "CLF_SWORD", flags = "FLAG_HASPREVIEWIMAGE", weargroup = "WEARGROUP_INVALID", -- 3d model + animation info model0Data = { name = "models/weapons/1h/n_1hlongsword-01.GR2", user = "WEARGROUP_DEFAULT", }, -- logic bounding box logicBox = { minx=-2.504, miny=-20.255, minz=-0.574, maxx=2.504, maxy=20.255, maxz=0.574, }, dangerclass = 0, } mgr.typeCreate(2430, newItemType); Note the "family = "FAMILY_WEAPON"" in the itemtype file. If we crossreference the classification field from the newItemType with name tag from newTypification we will get all weapon groups and their governing skill. At first I thought I would be able to user the "renderfamily = "RENDERFAM_WEAPON"" tag as a key but not all weapon types have that specific tag. One thing that I find interesting is the bonusgroupID tag in the newItemType. It looks like it decides what special abilities the weapon can get from it governing weapon skill. I will try and get a parser working tonight so we can get it in the wiki.
Schot 424 Posted January 17, 2009 Ah! That's just the kind of stuff I needed to see Moander. Thank you very much for bringing to us. That will prove exceptional value. I especially love the fact that you're able to prove that certain weapons get a certain range of modifiers. Awesome!
Moander 0 Posted January 17, 2009 And what do we find in "scripts/server/blueprints.txt"? newBonus = { -- name = "wb_swdm_criticalhit", rating = 25, basedonskill = "skill_sword_mastery", type = "BONUS_CRITICALHIT", spez = "", spez2 = "", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {70,1,1}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,30,100}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,35,120}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,40,140}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,45,170}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,50,200}, } mgr.createBonus(60, newBonus); and newBonusgroup = { id = 89, name = "Ybg_sword_sword", bonuslist = { 60,62,64,}, } mgr.createBonusgroup(89, newBonusgroup); The newBonusGroup id tag (89) matches bonusgroupID from newTypification with the CLF_SWORD tag. The bonuslist seems to mean that the item get one of them, in this case it is BONUS_CRITICALHIT, BONUS_COMBATVALUE or BONUS_DEBUFF_POTENTIAL. Each of these also have the "basedonskill = "skill_sword_lore"" tag in them. I think we getting somewhere here. Now I just want to find out the english name for each item type.
Zinsho 0 Posted January 17, 2009 Since you got me curious about that: Blowguns: Fall under ranged weapon lore newBonusgroup = { id = 159, name = "Ybg_dist_blowgun ", bonuslist = { 112,116,117,}, } mgr.createBonusgroup(159, newBonusgroup); 112 is Chance to slow enemy 116 is Chance for Secondary Effect 117 is Chance for Secondary Effect (via mastery)
Llama8 11 Posted January 17, 2009 Yes, I think there definitely needs to be a 1/2-handed version as well as/instead. IIRC, Seras can't use two-handed axes, but they can used two-handed swords. And BTW, "Energistic" is a weapon prefix, not an item type/name.
Moander 0 Posted January 17, 2009 (edited) Here are all weapon classifications, note that Temple guardians batteries are also classified as weapons. CLF_HAMMER, CLF_SHORTSWORD, CLF_BATTERY_ENERGY, // Templar guardian battery CLF_FISTWEAPON_BLADE, // Brassknuckle, likely a scrapped weapon CLF_MAGESTAFF, CLF_SWORD, CLF_2H_HAMMER, CLF_LONGBOW, CLF_CLUB, CLF_ENERGY_WEAPON, CLF_DAGGER, CLF_2H_AXE, CLF_MAGESTAFF_2H, CLF_MAGESTAFF_2H_R, CLF_BAST ARDSWORD, // remove the space, the word "Barsteward" ("bas tard") seems to be censored CLF_WHIP, CLF_SABER, CLF_RECURVEBOW, CLF_THROW_STONE_BIG, CLF_HALBERD, CLF_THROW_DAGGER, CLF_THROW_DRINK, // Model is n_littlebomb-01.GR2 CLF_SHORTBOW, CLF_JAVELIN, CLF_FISTWEAPON_SPIKE, // More brassknuckles CLF_BLOWGUN, CLF_MAGESTAFF_R, CLF_BATTERY_TECHNICS, // Templar guardian, possibly a fire battery CLF_POLE, CLF_HORSEBOW, CLF_FISTWEAPON, CLF_AXE, CLF_THROW_STAR, CLF_ENERGY_PISTOL, CLF_2H_SWORD, CLF_THROW_STONE // Kobold stone thrower Time to sleep, I will do the rest tomorrow. Edited January 17, 2009 by Moander
Asuka Sohryu L. 0 Posted January 17, 2009 I think weapons that can only be used by one class (e.g. Blowpipe -> Dryad) should be listed separately.
Antitrust 32 Posted January 18, 2009 Maybe I'm stating the obvious, but the following is the possible range of mods the item is getting for the respective difficulty (they change for each difficulty): difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,30,100}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,35,120}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,40,140}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,45,170}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,50,200} "30,100" means the critical hit in bronze will be in range of 3-10%, depending on skill level. If you switch to silver, the same weapon will have 3,5-12% chance.
Zinsho 0 Posted January 18, 2009 No trust... the same item WON"T change values based on difficulty. I suspect (and if you meant this I'm sorry for how I phrased that) is that if the item drops in a given difficulty the modifiers will follow that range. Sort of like how gold runes are better than silver etc.
Antitrust 32 Posted January 18, 2009 No Zin If you find a weapon with "Deep Wounds" in bronze, it will change in next difficulty and become higher. This is true for many mods, not just skill-based. Some mods might not follow this, and have the same value no matter if you change difficulty.
Schot 424 Posted January 18, 2009 You're both right and wrong. It appears as though skill based modifiers go up as you climb difficulties. So far as I've been able see other item modifiers don't appear to go up.
gogoblender 3,406 Author Posted January 18, 2009 I go to work for just a few hours and all this work... dang, did I miss a party? Moander, thanks for coming over and helping out with the project. Cheers! gogo p.s. I've merged two threads on same topic here to keep all collected info together for reference.
Schot 424 Posted January 18, 2009 The more I think about it and read comments the more I think it could in fact be sized down. We will absolutely need to maintain an entire listing of the various weapons under each skill category but maybe it doesn't have to be within that particular table. For the most part I wanted to catologue all the variations so that it would be easy to review what we're dealing with. A BIG list that is. There's much more as you say Zinsho. Now that gogo has gone and created the pages for each category it might be easier to maintain full listings on each respective page. Then again we may yet find that those subclasses do in fact need to be in the table. I'm thinking that it would be to our benefit to work as is on the present table and fill it out. After it's been completed we could then break it apart and move info around. Energistic was a tough one for me Llama. I needed a name that could be referenced from game to wiki and the below image should explain my desperate choice, lol. I considered "Energy Weapon" but there are two problems with that. Some types of ranged, errrr, staffs/poles are actually called Energy Weapon. Other problem is that Energy Weapon might easily be confused with any kind of pistol. For the sake of referencing direct from game I thought Energistic might work well. It's open for alternative naming though! Good point Asuka. Are you meaning to put it in a different table somewhere? Notice the frequent naming of Energistic. Also note the Ranged Weapons modifier Chance to hit additional opponents on all 5 of the Energy/Energistic weapons. So it seems these weapons are inclined to have that modifier. Seems other weapons behave the same way.
Zinsho 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Schot: Staff Weapon? (Stargate reference)... or even just Energy Staves.
gogoblender 3,406 Author Posted January 18, 2009 Good point Asuka. Are you meaning to put it in a different table somewhere? Notice the frequent naming of Energistic. Also note the Ranged Weapons modifier Chance to hit additional opponents on all 5 of the Energy/Energistic weapons. So it seems these weapons are inclined to have that modifier. Seems other weapons behave the same way. wow Schot, when it comes to proof, you've got it man. Nice work here...and definitely a wonderful pattern you've seen from good ole observations to see some answers for us. Okay I'll head into the game right now and start pulling out clubs and see if I can see a pattern as well. In Sacred Original clubs had inclinations towards undead...maybe here as well. Great work Schot +++ gogo
gogoblender 3,406 Author Posted January 18, 2009 Hafted Mastery: And there we go... clubs, bludgeons and cudgels...disposition towards undead. ( took pix of mastery weps cuz they're cool ) Yee haw! gogo
Antitrust 32 Posted January 18, 2009 It appears as though skill based modifiers go up as you climb difficulties. So far as I've been able see other item modifiers don't appear to go up. Some of them do, some of them don't Nice work gogo
Moander 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Long post incoming. Notice the frequent naming of Energistic. Also note the Ranged Weapons modifier Chance to hit additional opponents on all 5 of the Energy/Energistic weapons. So it seems these weapons are inclined to have that modifier. Seems other weapons behave the same way. If you look in "sacred 2\locale\en_US\Itemnames.csv" there is only one reference to "energistic" NGCLF_ENERGY_WEAPON;Energy Weapon,1;Energiser,1;Energistic Weapon,1 In "typification.txt" there is a "CLF_ENERGY_WEAPON" type. The problem is that most lines in "itemnames.csv" does not have corresponding entry in any of the scripts, some of the names looks like the ones in typification. they seem to go trough some sort of internal naming process that I haven't been able to find any trace of yet. In typification we have newTypification = { id = 28, name = "CLF_ENERGY_WEAPON", stat = "STAT_DEX", modreal = 1000, modfocus = 0, modbasepoints = 1180, bonusgroupID = 158, weapondamagespread = 160, fightdistance = 525.000000, } mgr.createTypification(28, newTypification); In itemtype.txt there 4 itemtypes of that classification, 4977 - 4980. If you want to see them search for "mgr.typeCreate(4977". In blueprint.txt you can find the real item blueprints by going after things with a "itemtypes" tag newBlueprint = { id = 957, name = "energy_staff_magic", palettebits = "1111111111111111", dmgvariation = 160, minconstraints = {8,5,0}, lvljump = 1, usability = 0, allotment_pmfpi = {1000,0,0,0,0}, uniquename = "", specialuseonly = 0, bonusgroup0 = {583,1500,1,9,0}, bonusgroup1 = {582,1500,1,5,0}, bonusgroup2 = {581,1500,1,2,0}, itemtypes = {4977,4979,4980,}, wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_DEFAULT',}, } Notice the bonusgrup tags? The material had bonusgroupid 158 (BONUS_AREASPLASH with minconstraints = {1,1,0}, BONUS_IGNORE_ARMOR with minconstraints = {25,5,0}, BONUS_EXTRAEFFECTCHANCE with minconstraints = {70,1,1} AND basedonskill = "skill_distance_weapon_mastery") which matches the unlockable ability. The blueprints bonusgroup seems to decide the normal abilities. Bonusgroup 583 looks like this bonuslist = { 37,67,69,382,392,393,643,647,649,651,652,659,662,680,682,684,686,688,690,692,694 ,696,698,700,702,704,706,708,}, 37 is BONUS_DIRECTDAMAGE, 69 is BONUS_DEBUFF_ARMOR_POTENTIAL. So it looks like the material decides the ability unlocks but it looks like it is limited by the level of the character. The bonusgroup on the blueprint decides all available random generated abilities. Have anyone found a Energistic weapon with BONUS_IGNORE_ARMOR below level 25? Could anyone check that the Energistic weapons really are influenced by Dexterity? So far I haven't been able to find out were damage is assigned but in material.txt we have things that looks promising. I am preparing a little api/file guide for each of the script files for the guys over in the modding forum.
Moander 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Hafted Mastery: And there we go... clubs, bludgeons and cudgels...disposition towards undead. ( took pix of mastery weps cuz they're cool ) Yee haw! gogo I am going to test my theory about the files on the cudgels. The part that will be important in the next step is highlighted with ** **, the part that connect this step to the one before will be highlighted with -- -- itemname.csv **NGCLF_CLUB**;Club,1;Bludgeon,1;Cudgel,1 Typification.txt newTypification = { id = 22, name = --"CLF_CLUB"--, stat = "STAT_STR", modreal = 1000, modfocus = 0, modbasepoints = 960, bonusgroupID = **106**, weapondamagespread = 150, fightdistance = 35.000000, } mgr.createTypification(22, newTypification); Blueprint.txt newBonusgroup = { id = **106**, name = "Ybg_hafted_club ", bonuslist = --{ 74,78,82,}--, } mgr.createBonusgroup(**106**, newBonusgroup); blueprint.txt newBonus = { -- name = "wb_hftl_attackspeed", rating = 11, basedonskill = "skill_hafted_weapon_lore", type = "BONUS_SPEED", spez = "SPEED_ATTACK", spez2 = "", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {1,1,0}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,50,100}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,65,130}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,80,160}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,100,200}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,125,250}, } mgr.createBonus(--74--, newBonus); newBonus = { -- name = "wb_hftl_undead_damfir_rel", rating = 2, basedonskill = "skill_hafted_weapon_lore", type = "BONUS_WEAPONDAMAGE_REL", spez = "DMG_FIRE", spez2 = "SUBFAM_LIFE_UNDEAD", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {25,5,0}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,100,600}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,130,800}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,160,1000}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,200,1200}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,250,1500}, } mgr.createBonus(--78--, newBonus); newBonus = { -- name = "wb_hftm_stunchance", rating = 12, basedonskill = "skill_hafted_weapon_mastery", type = "BONUS_STUN", spez = "", spez2 = "", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {70,1,1}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,44,55}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,50,68}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,55,82}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,60,96}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,66,110}, } mgr.createBonus(--82--, newBonus); Note the mincontraints of each bonus. Have you been able to find cudgels or clubs with increased attack speed as a unlockable ability?
Moander 0 Posted January 18, 2009 Here is a csv file with the weapon classifications and their bonusgroup id. Paste into a openoffice Calc document and you will be able to sort it. "Classification","Bonus","Stat","Id" "CLF_2H_AXE",109,"STAT_STR",6 "CLF_2H_HAMMER",110,"STAT_STR",7 "CLF_2H_SWORD",91,"STAT_STR",8 "CLF_AXE",104,"STAT_STR",11 "CLF_BarstewardSWORD",90,"STAT_STR",12 "CLF_BATTERY_ENERGY",250,"STAT_DEX",146 "CLF_BATTERY_TECHNICS",249,"STAT_DEX",145 "CLF_BLOWGUN",159,"STAT_DEX",156 "CLF_CLUB",106,"STAT_STR",22 "CLF_DAGGER",69,"STAT_DEX",26 "CLF_ENERGY_PISTOL",157,"STAT_DEX",27 "CLF_ENERGY_WEAPON",158,"STAT_DEX",28 "CLF_FISTWEAPON",127,"STAT_STR",29 "CLF_FISTWEAPON_BLADE",129,"STAT_STR",83 "CLF_FISTWEAPON_SPIKE",128,"STAT_STR",82 "CLF_HALBERD",72,"STAT_STR",33 "CLF_HAMMER",105,"STAT_STR",34 "CLF_HORSEBOW",155,"STAT_DEX",85 "CLF_JAVELIN",116,"STAT_STR",37 "CLF_LONGBOW",147,"STAT_DEX",42 "CLF_MAGESTAFF",164,"STAT_INT",43 "CLF_MAGESTAFF_2H",166,"STAT_INT",154 "CLF_MAGESTAFF_2H_R",167,"STAT_INT",155 "CLF_MAGESTAFF_R",165,"STAT_INT",153 "CLF_POLE",115,"STAT_DEX",5 "CLF_RECURVEBOW",149,"STAT_DEX",84 "CLF_SABER",88,"STAT_STR",58 "CLF_SHORTBOW",154,"STAT_DEX",62 "CLF_SHORTSWORD",87,"STAT_DEX",64 "CLF_SWORD",89,"STAT_STR",4 "CLF_THROW_DAGGER",151,"STAT_DEX",65 "CLF_THROW_DRINK",143,"STAT_DEX",66 "CLF_THROW_STAR",145,"STAT_DEX",67 "CLF_THROW_STONE",151,"STAT_DEX",220 "CLF_THROW_STONE_BIG",145,"STAT_STR",224 "CLF_WHIP",107,"STAT_DEX",74 If anyone want to get the data in some specific format just let me know.
Moander 0 Posted January 18, 2009 The zip contains csv files of the following Bonuses Bonus groups Weapon classifications Weapon Typifications (overlaps with Weapon classifications) http://rapidshare.de/files/42266334/Sacred...aFiles.zip.html
gogoblender 3,406 Author Posted January 18, 2009 Moander, nice job here, we're actually getting even more info regarding the weapons than I expected. OKay I've turned all the weapons on the table into links to pages. I guess info on all the weapon types can be entered there. I think the next step is to put in check marks into the main weapon table which would indicate which class can actually wield a particular weapon. If anyone's not eating any breakfast this morning, and if you know that x class can wield x weapon... Check away! gogo
