Charon117

I need a decision about spawn.txt. Do we want to facilitate dublicated sector pos + layermap_id entries by allowing the modmerge system to deal with such entries, or do we, as the community, want to push single entries only, by forcing a preprocessed merge in one way or another ? Edit: Can I assume that "name" is unique for triggerarea.txt ? Edit2: Can I assume that "name" is unique for triggervolumes.txt ?

Damage over Time: Fire -X%: Reduces Burn duration (as well as total damage: for example, if incoming DoT was to inflict 250 damage for 5 seconds it would be decreased by "Damage over time:x -65%" to two seconds - 250 damage dealt by the first pulse and 187 damage a second later, summing up to 437 damage which is 35% of initial 1250). http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Damage_over_time:_Fire Insert "There can only be one" meme here.

As far as the wiki describes it, and as far as empirical evidence suggests is that -DOTT% cuts of damage at the end. Here is an example. Lets say you do 1000 true DOT. This gets split over 5 seconds ( maybe over the duration which is specified in "et_duration_sec"). So 200 damage for 5 pulses. If you now have -50DOTT% the damage gets changed to 200 - 200 - 100. While I would like -DOTT% to also reduce all types of DOT, only testing will yield accurate results, I think.

Its not correct. The DOT page in itself is correct, but the linking to it from Spell Resistance is not. Check "DME&DoT duration, % (skill mastery required)". AND intensity ? As far as I read it only the duration gets reduced. I think you are mixing something up here. Getting confused by the many DOT types around. There is true DOT damage, which reduction works that damage gets reduced starting from the end. The characteristics of that is that its 5 pulses -% of -DOT%. Like I asked earlier, its unclear in which way -DOT% and -DME% work together. Then there is pseudo DOT which actually is only damage for as long as the status is active. Burn, Freeze, Bleed, etc ... -DME% reduces the duration of the status, which means less damage, but it doesnt actually reduce damage. If burn gets constantly triggered there is no damage reduction at all. The main question to answer would be: Does -DME% actually reduce true DOT ? Does -DOTT% actually reduce DME damage ? Hotter than a sausage in a frying pan.

@Flix Ok that confuses me profoundly now. I thought DOT and DME were 2 different distinctive effects. 1. So the wiki page is wrong again and it doesnt reduce ACTUAL DOT. Just DME DOT. If you follow the DOT link provided it includes "Build-in Damage Over Time. It is caused by some Spell Damage Based Combat Arts with 100% chance (DoT is also indicated on CA's tooltip)." which you say is wrong. Somebody might update that. 2. -DOTT% is pretty op than, no ? The only exclusive part DME gets is root and debuff then ? Why do I need private counselling sessions to understand the wiki ? Every time I visit the wiki page I get the wrong idea.

Oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh, I was hallucinating. I thought -DE% would decrease DOT. So that means its not competing with Spell Resistant mastery ? Not directly anyways. So -DOTT% would be the better alternative ? To -DE% ? Hm ... so since skill mastery decreases DOTT as well as DE it is always the better choice ? Given you want to invest in it ?

As far as the wiki states it DOT gets its damage reduced exactly equally to -DE%, and damage gets cut off starting from the 5th pulse to the first one. Other effects get their duration reduced, which for the secondary effects means less damage. The most important part is propably the reduction of root duration. -DE% seems extremely useful to me, especially given the jankiness of the hp bar update process. As an example if you get -80DE% than you can run through the spider forest scott free, as it means - 80% damage. But also all the other effects means a lot of effective damage reduction. But the wiki doesnt directly phrase it as -DE%, so the question is whether or not it straight up stacks, or is a different effect. For instance if you have -50DE%, and "theoretically" also 50% mastery bonus, does it cut the 5 seconds duration in half, because the second half of the duration doesnt even exist anymore due to -50DE%. Or does it cut the remaining 2.5 seconds into a 1.25 second duration ? Well, I have been thinking about that, and the proper question here would be how the game merges dublicated entries, especially total_density. Does the game fill up an area with the specified entries until total_density is reached ? With the relative number relation ? Lets say you have an dublicated entry with total_density = 30, and the next one with total_density = 50. Does the game then first fill up the area until 30 is reached, and then takes the second entry and fills up the area until 50 is reached ? As far as I read the entries lower layermap_id seems to have lower density, but there are also exceptions, which might or might not just be errors on Ascarons part. As it looks, the most logical conclusion is that that all layermap_id form a group, with the max total value of total_density. Anyway, my point is just this: There is no problem in interpreting all sector pos + layermap_id as a group, and merge it as a group. So all dublicated entries would get interpreted as a group, and swapped out as a group, with the plus being that it would work with the current data. The question is whether or not we want to encourage modders to make dublicated entries, or if it is worth the risk, since nobody knows how the entries are getting merged.

That means it doesnt stack with -DE% ? If I have -50DE%, and then spell resistant mastery of 65% the total decrease is 0.5 * 0.35 = 82.5% reduction ? Or does it simply cap the DOT duration ? Does the mastery actually have influence on the damage ? Questions over questions.

That I am not familiar with gaming formulas. As a mathematician I try to find the simplest expression of behaviour, but I dont have the experience of a game developer which makes such formulas different from the most basic ones. Try it ? >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Is there a way to remove the delayed hp bar update. And make the hp display correct up to 1 frame ? <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

It looks EXACTLY like all the other talisman. Although so do many other rings.

TaliaMets Madness icon is that of a talisman, but the game treats it as a ring. Is there a way to remove the delayed hp bar update. And make the hp display correct up to 1 frame ?

The 2.43 version had a very nice thing where bosses would have a very good chance of dropping +AllSkill material, I really liked that. Now even that got nerfed to hell, as you can farm 50 bosses and might get 1 AllSkill item out of it. The problem is that Flix cant figure out what drops who and when and if. Otherwise he could jank in some increased dropchances for AllSkill exclusively for bosses. Or other interesting mobs. Edit: Uurshus Inquisition is grossly underpowered for being a unique.

I cant process the file without unique identifiers. So I merge dublicated entries manually ? And you and dimitrius too ? Edit: I assume treasure.txt doesnt have modding content ? But it should still get a merge system by the one example ? @Refresh @Flix @dimitrius154 Edit 2: Is the Wiki Spell Resistance page supposed to say -DE% decreases with level ?

I would say droprate can at least safely be increased by 10% of the original value. And why intensity ? a level 80 ring only has +2. Do you want to have + 1 for 80 levels ? Look, I dont even use +AllSkill, because they are not the best thing that drops, but even if I wanted to, I only have 1 ring to use anyway ><.

A quick search of "layermap_id = 4," says it gets used for -- Start Region Atmo. Which means, we .. delete them ? Merge them ?

I honestly cant make sense of that formula. All I can take from it is that OCE gets applied, and the character panel says the final hitchance increase is something a little lower than the OCE value. If that formula is correct. Can we trust the character panel ? @Flix Changes look good so far but I dont see the point of making +AllSkill even more rare than they are now. Not only is +AllSkill not that good of a modifier anymore with that values, but they are already rare enough. 36 hours of gameplay and I can count +AllSkill jewelry I got on one hand. Just some input though. Is the flat talisman armour bonus an AND or INSTEAD modifier ? Did you see the edit here ?

Does that mean that you can can increase the layermap_id if you want to make a new spawn ? mgr.addSpawn (11,22,-2,{ -- No Spawn level 2 allowed in this area! total_density = 100, layermap_id = 2, } ) I just found this and it says "No Spawn level 2 allowed" and its laymermap_id = 2. Im not sure if layermap_id is just another entry, or if it gets addressed in the code. An interesting way to test this would be to remove 1 mgr. entry and see what it does in that region. I ran my software over it and found a few dublicates: I will await feedback on how to proceed with the dublicates, and in the meantime ask @Flix whats his oppinion on making mergeable.

Can somebody explain the spawn.txt ? mgr.addSpawn (1,52,0,{ -- sector pos total_density = 50, -- max number of enemies ? layermap_id = 3, -- ? {2036,4,"",0,0,0,0}, -- creature id, number of spawns, ?, ? ,? ,?, ? {2050,5,"",0,0,1,0}, {2048,2,"",0,0,2,0}, {2042,1,"",0,0,3,0}, } ) Edit: Am I right in the assumption that sector pos + layermap_id = unique ?

Sooooooooooo ... OCE gets represented in a broken, but applicable, state in non-Addendum versions ? And it might approximately work as the formula I described ? And in what way does it work in Addendum then ?

So the displayed increase in hitchance in the character window when equipting OCE is a bogus, or everything has at least an evasion chance of 0% ?

I think the best way to look at it, is as a completely broken system which we should not necessarily take as a starting point. Ofcourse we have to take the limitations of the Sacred 2 system into account. One of the most basic limitations that Sacred 2 has it doesnt recognise inputs at the same frame. So if you drink a potion and then activate a CA, your CA wont get taken. Conversly if your press on space incidently falls on the same frame as a CA, you wont drink a potion. Usually you will never notice this, because of pressed LMB and RMB, but sometimes ... just sometimes ... you dont consume a potion when you should have. For this reason I dont think our goal should be make the player drink potions more frequently. Our goal should be infrequent, strategic consuming of potions. So how do we get to infrequent, strategic consuming of potions ? As a basis for this discussion I would cut potion drops to 30% of the current drop rate. Additionally I would increase players health to x3 times the current amount, split among all attributes and modifers that give health. x3 times the amount for +health modifier. +150% for vitality, and +50% for constitution. IMO the best solution would be to rewrite the whole code to make a maximum of 5 health potions consumeable every 30 seconds. The second best solution would be the one I suggested in the Addendum thread. 30 second cooldown. 20% decrease per instance, stacking with diminishing return, and a low cap of 0%. Both of this requires source code access and modifying skills. The third best solution is just to make them incredibly expensive to buy. Its not the best thing, but its something.

No ? As far as I know OCE takes your "chance to miss" as "chance to evade". https://www.sacred-legends.de/effekte.html Ausweichchance des Gegners -x% Erhöht die eigene Trefferchance. Trefferchance = (Trefferchance (bestimmt durch Aangriffs- und Verteidigungswert) + SichererTreffer%) * (1 + AusweichenVerringern%) / (1 + Ausweichen%). Formula says (Hitchance(AV againsr DV) + COCE%) * ((1 + OCE%) / (1 + Evasion%)) As a basic reference this means if you have 20 OCE%, and a 70% AV/DV than your final chance to hit is 0.7 * 1.2 = 84% disregarding other effects like block and reflect. I think chattius wrote a paper on COCE and OCE in this forum. If we disagree we would have to ask god, I mean dimitrius. I would be fond of this change, but you would need to make other changes with it. Look, I am currently at level 82 on silver on challenge mode. Strong enough to kill everything, but even though I 100% invested ALL my skills and attributes into defensive, take as many damage mitigation as I can find, crank up my armour to the utmost and invest ALL my attributes into vitality there are still boss crits that one shot me. The Kraken overhead attack one shots me if it crits. The Crystal Boss touch does 80% damage, and is unavoidable. The main point is you cant go over 200% damage on crit, or you put the player in risk of getting one shotted for a lot of things. And thats pretty unreasonable. I would find it nice if the average damage of crit stays the same, but the crit% get halfed, making getting crits a special experience. So yes, 75% crit chances and increasing damage to 300% sounds good, but you have to figure other stuff out first. Like: A way to deal with potion spamming. Currently you are immune to damage against anything that doesnt one shoots you. I personally think the health pool is way too low. Maybe increase the health per vitality point first and foremost, and if that isnt enough look at constitution next. In total I think the player should have x3 times the health he currently has, paired with a reasonable potion system. I asked you for it, but you said it was something which affected all types of creatures. If you tell me what to do, I will differentiate it myself as I walk through Ancaria. Most MS in game is very reasonable. I just think a few changes would make some creatures a lot more pronounced than they currently are. For instance rats could get a very large MS bonus. Rats are usually the weakest form of enemy, and do next to no damage. spiders get a medium MS bonus. Spiders IRL are very agile and annoying. More MS makes them more annoying and thuse more pronounced. flying bats get a medium MS bonus. They are not very strong, but their strafing movement usually completely blocks the battlefield. Making a fast strafing movement would give them character, and a certain feeling. Additionally I would make normal and elite models a lot smaller, so their weak forms dont block other creatures. etc ... Nice ! I havent seen Niob with unlocked maxSpeed so it might just be alright. I am. Also the cap is pretty much symbolic. If anybody even slightly feels like some speed is getting capped he can increase it to 800% or whatever. Since the Trimmed Elite textures make the game incredibly stable there are no stability concerns tied with speed. Yes and no. What does it help the player to have poison resisting armour and than he switches to the Christmas island. Does he then throw away the armour ? I think if jewelry has a worse flat armour increase than reliques it gives the player the choice of which armour composition he wants to settle on. It also means he constantly has to resmith his armour. Which gives more value to gold, etc ... . If you really want to add non-physical armour on armour I suggest you reserve an additional value to the current ones, which gets randomely rolled for a non-physical type. Maybe even make it reflect that in the name like "Acid Torn Torso". Giving jewelry non-pysical armour also increases the importance of jewelry, because they could spawn together with REALLY good modifiers, or they could spawn with REALLY bad ones, and visus verca. Cheers Edit: Oh yes, for EE and Addendum I suggest lowering minSpeed from 50% to 30%, while taking a second look on MS decreasing CAs. For now I suggest to half the initial value of Levins Array Paralyze to 25%. Other CAs and mods will have to be individually looked at, but I assume halfing of the initial value will be a reasonable starting point. Keep in mind that +/- MS has no diminishing returns, propably. Also @Flix Life regeneration for Enhance ? Seriously ? GTFO and give me casting speed instead, as it is custom for a magic enhancing blacksmith art. With that Enhance might just become a good choice for casters. Maybe even pair it with AS, so that physical and casters might both find it viable, since one CA never gets boosted by both. I also find the current COCE and OCE values completely reasonable. AV and DV are bad, but they are bad by design, there is nothing you can do about that. They are also the base values of where all calculations start, so its not unreasonable that they are bad.

@dimitrius154 Thats a good way to deal with it, I think. EE should definitely take one or another approach of dealing with health potion spamming, imho. Btw if somebody finds some interesting new concepts or improvements I volunteer to try them out first, if its something I can easily change in my own files.

It does nothing. There is no noticeable effect on coodlown for health potions. Maybe it goes down from 90% to 50%, but 2 health potions usually always heal everything. What needs to be done is to lower the low cap for health potions to 1%. And the other things I said.

Feature request to make potion spamming diminishing returns 20% with a low cap of 1%, and a 30 seconds stack time.