Places of Ancaria Project - Now complete!

[Zeno 2]

Well, I've decided to start my second project: Places of Ancaria.

I will go on with quests, of course, but I need a second project to put my hands on when I get tired of the other

 

Let's get into it: Places. The Places of Ancaria section is a really big one, and now there isn't many information on it (actually, there is very few). So I decided to start working also with places, and basically I have completed the places list of Tyr Lysia and added links to the fantastic Ancaria Interactive Map. That's all we have. I've been thinking on this while going back home, and I found out we need basically two things:

• A page template
• Maps (any kind of)

About the page template, Schot and myself have been making some tests, each one on its own, and now we've realised we are working in the same, so it's time to put things together. I've tried to merge best of what we both thought in this new page.

Please, take a look on it and give your opinion/suggestions!

 

About the maps, I think some work is being done on them, so we will for Schot news on it.

 

Another thing to discuss is the places list page. I'm sorry but I don't like at all that layout: there's only one region listed (Tyr Lysia) and it's already difficult to read; not to mention when more and more links are being added there. I can imagine some compact listing like in a multiple column table (as category listings) or similar. What do you think about it?

 

I'm looking forward your impressions and/or suggestions.

 

 

Zeno

[Knuckles 904]

I like it

 

The page is very nicely laid out....though doing this for all the areas/quests is a huge undertaking...quite a project you got going...I like the whole thing....just wondering how you are going to do quest givers that are out in the middle of nowhere. Other than that I really can't think of anything that needs to be added to page...

 

Nicely done Zeno

[Schot 407]

Nicely done Zeno as usual!

 

I'm happy to see you've taken an interest in this aspect of the wiki as I can see a great deal of creative presentation for info about Sacred 2. off the top of my head I have a couple of things that could be fun to add:

 

Merchant icons for one. For the other it could be nice to place a Tab map image of the location as well as an M map image of the location. Each one under the primary image of the location. Essentially it would be a 3 image column going downwards. Primary image, then Tab map thumbnail then M map thumbnail.

 

Something else that we can do is create links for the NPC's right away. This will provide other wiki editors to fill in those NPC pages or pose as a reminder for those visiting the page that more info is needed for the NPC.

 

I would try those things out but sadly my work station is still "on vacation" but as soon as I get it going I'll be right there with you! Maps are indeed on there way which will be sections of the map. Smaller chunks of the map will mean a better zoom as well as flexibility regarding markers. Oh and the map we use to link to is due for an update which will happen soon.

 

 

Regarding the page listing of places I agree with you Zeno. It was more or less created as a means to collect info but now that things are happening we can devise a more efficient structure. What I would like to eventually do is to move places into the region pages. The region pages could afford to list their places which I think could make a lot of sense.

 

 

One last thing is that I just created a breadcrumb for Place pages. As you can see on your experimental page there is now a menu of links near the top of the page. Any page that has the [[Category:Sacred 2 Places Of Ancaria]] will have the breadcrumb I set up. Oh and regarding the placement of [[Category:Sacred 2 Places Of Ancaria]] that should be set to the bottom of the page for the template.

 

 

I don't know where you get the energy to do all that you do but I can tell you that it is very exciting to see.

 

 

P.s.

Tabled the Places of Ancaria list. Let me know what you think!

[Zeno 2]

Well, a couple of things to comment:

 

@Knuckles:

just wondering how you are going to do quest givers that are out in the middle of nowhere.

I had thought to focus this on places. I mean, applied to what you ask: if there is a quest giver in a place, then the place page will reference the NPC & the quest (as well as in the quests list/page); if the quest giver is placed in the middle of nowhere, then it will be referenced only in the quest list/page. So the idea is to make a places inventary; the quests inventary is already being made in the quests list/page.

 

@Schot:

Merchant icons for one.

What I would like to eventually do is to move places into the region pages.

I'm with you. But I doubt whre to put them. Maybe a good idea could be putting merchant/smith/rune/horse icons, the temple icon and the portal/monolith/ship captain all in a new section. My idea is to remove the Transportation section with a Merchants (or items, or ... any name suggestions?) section. This section would contain "things you can find in this place:" and a list with all icons below.

About places lists, I like the idea of moving them to the regions pages. Main Places Page -> Region -> Place. It keeps with the logic structure, and it will be much more efficient.

 

 

Regarding the test page, I've moved the category line to the bottom. I've put map thumbs for M and Tab maps. I've tried to use a primary image and two map thumbnails below, but I had a little combat with the S2frame template (it seems we are not compatible)

 

Take a look again to see improvements at the place test page.

 

Zeno

[Schot 407]

I've added some ideas to your page Zeno. I'll have to be quick in my explaining so I'm not late for work!

 

Moved icons to top. Think that could be useful for quick reading.

 

Adjusted image frames. You are now compatable! The problem with S2frame and photobucket is that a piece of the thumbnail link needs to be removed in order to make the S2frame work with the thumbnails.

 

Remove bolded text:

ttp://s241.photobucket.com/albums/ff165/SacredWiki/Sacred_2/places/Tyr%20Lysia/Sloeford/?action=view&current=temple.jpg]ttp://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff165/SacredWiki/Sacred_2/places/Tyr%20Lysia/Sloeford/th_temple.jpg

 

And everything will be fine.

 

Elaborated on transportation.

 

That's it! You've done a really nice job Zeno and I couldn't help but notice how familiar you are with html. Cool!

 

 

Back in about 8 hours. ^^

 

 

P.s.

Oh yeah. I also used {{PAGENAME}}. It is used to auto generate the pagename where ever it is placed. Top of the page; "In {{PAGENAME}} you can find the following:"

[Zeno 2]

Uh... yeah... html... What I see is I'll have to study again all wiki variables, syntax, styling and wiki-tricks to get up-to-date!

 

Anyway, I've started to prepare a template for place pages like the one is used for quests. I suggest not mofidying the template until a definitive version of the test page is ''approved'', obviously because having to edit things twice isn't necessary at all.

 

I have to say but, I like very much the look of the test page right now, so probably it will have few modifications from now. What do you think? Do you have any other suggestion to complete this page? Things missing, things you would change (format, content), or whatever. Opinions required!!

 

Zeno.

[Schot 407]

Lookin great! Running off to work now but will add my final thoughts when I get home!

[Zeno 2]

I have an idea about the icons at the top of the page.

I thought of adding a tooltip on them, as simple as "You can find a merchant in {pagename}". The problem is I don't know how to do it, except for embedded images. The solution would be to upload the icons to the wiki and insert them as embedded images instead of external ones; it shouldn't be a problem since their size is very small. Another option could be making the icons to be links to the page explaining what they are: merchant, runemaster, etc. What do you think on this? Any other idea?

 

Btw, I've taken a general look at the page and I really think it's ok for me. I like the layout, and it's easy readable. In my opinion it's ready to go

 

Zeno

[Schot 407]

I'm back in action on my workstation pc. Woohoo! Fiiiiinally. Sorry I didn't get to this sooner Zeno. Technical difficulties. Bleh. ^^

 

 

I've added a bit more to the page Zeno. Something that occured to me which is very important is a section about the enemies in the area which would also mention bosses for that area. I took out Details and moved the info that was in details to the top of the page which makes a nice introduction to the page I find. I removed the == Sloeford == since the actual page will be called Sloeford and same for other Place pages. Moved the right side images up closer to the top of page and also attempted, lol, to add a bit of design to the icons at the top in order to try to separate it from the rest of the content. With a bit of attention to colour it could look a lot nicer. I would spend more time on it but I think I've reached my limit this evening. Sleeeepy...

 

Regarding icons I've created a page all about the icons to help readers understand them. I really liked your tooltips for the icons but creating an entire page for each icon seemed to me more work than we need to have, haha. Less work FTW! ^^ So now we have a page for all the icons with further descriptions pending. Map Icons

 

 

Ummm, let's see... Yup! That's all I have to say on this one. Your work is of course impeccable Zeno. I'll leave the rest to you in your capable hands! Oh and of course the various edits I've made to your test page are simple suggestions and you can take them as that.

 

 

Looking forward to using your template.

 

P.s.

You may want to specify a width/height in the template for the top right thumbnail image so that everyones main image is the same size across all Place pages. Ok ok, I'm going! ^^

[Llama8 8]

As far as the Places of Ancaria main page is concerned, would it be possible to have an image (like the one that's in the bottom right of the wiki map) with each region being highlighted when you mouse over it & click on it as a link?

 

Also, what about having a map with the locations of all the caves on it (by region, ideally using the fully explored main map as a base)?

[Zeno 2]

You may want to specify a width/height in the template for the top right thumbnail image so that everyones main image is the same size across all Place pages.

Oh yes, I want to! But I can't find how to do it with external images... Could you show me an example on how to do it:)

Thanks!

 

Btw, nice work with the icons! I like very much the layout as it is. I've updated the template, and from now on it shouldn't suffer any big modification (but probably some minor changes). Actually I've started the Kobold Camp page using the template to test it and find possible issues... The only one is the header images size! Anything else looks great!

 

Another thing I want to say is I completed last week the places list. I took the names from the interactive map, so you can take the list also as a reference; if you find a place is missing in the list, probably won't be in the map (and reverse). I hope I didn't miss anyone!

 

would it be possible to have an image (...) with each region being highlighted (...)?

what about having a map with the locations of all the caves on it (...)?

It's possible to use sensible regions into images in wiki, but a wiki extension is needed, and I don't know if sacredwiki has it installed or not. It would be really cool, but IMHO the inventory of places is prioritary. But thanks a lot for the idea: it may be the difference between a nice section and a really cool one!

The caves map is a good idea, but I'd like to wait and see what surprises is Schot preparing for us

Also it would be quite a complex thing, as there is no name to use as a reference for the caves, and there is nothing distinctive between each other but the location. Sincerely, I think this could be also very cool, but I'm sorry I can't imagine any easy solution for this in short term.

But let's wait and see how this section grows, and who knows... impossible is nothing

 

Well, I hope you all like the job is being done here!

See ya.

 

Zeno

[Schot 407]

You may want to specify a width/height in the template for the top right thumbnail image so that everyones main image is the same size across all Place pages.

Oh yes, I want to! But I can't find how to do it with external images... Could you show me an example on how to do it:)

Thanks!

 

Regarding the width/height I was only meaning that you type a message within the template telling readers that they should make the image a certain height and width, hehe. Would be nice to automate it but easier just to ask people to size it themselves. ^^ Still... I'll look into that. Might be relatively easy to just create a CSS entry to auto size it. Then again.. Not sure how effective that would be on a photobucket thumbnail. I'll see what I can find.

 

 

Btw, nice work with the icons! I like very much the layout as it is. I've updated the template, and from now on it shouldn't suffer any big modification (but probably some minor changes). Actually I've started the Kobold Camp page using the template to test it and find possible issues... The only one is the header images size! Anything else looks great!

 

Thanx! I got to thinking that it may be easy enough to create a mini template for the icons. Something like {{Icons||1||2||3||4||5||6||7||8}} Where each number represents an icon. Wiki members could then just delete unneeded icons by removing corresponding numbers. It's something that can be added in a few days. I'm eager to set that up and see how well it can work.

 

 

Another thing I want to say is I completed last week the places list. I took the names from the interactive map, so you can take the list also as a reference; if you find a place is missing in the list, probably won't be in the map (and reverse). I hope I didn't miss anyone!

 

Awesome work on that! I was happily surprised when I saw that you had entered all those place names. Nice. ^^ There are more actually. There were a number of new place names added to the game some time after I made the map. The winter island for example. When you walk through the Winter Island you can see that certain areas have names. I haven't documented those on my maps. In addition there were some place names added to the old areas of the map so during your travels keep an eye out for them. I think I may even add the Carnach Cave as a region since it has places within it as well as the fact that it's HUGE.

 

would it be possible to have an image (...) with each region being highlighted (...)?

what about having a map with the locations of all the caves on it (...)?

It's possible to use sensible regions into images in wiki, but a wiki extension is needed, and I don't know if sacredwiki has it installed or not. It would be really cool, but IMHO the inventory of places is prioritary. But thanks a lot for the idea: it may be the difference between a nice section and a really cool one!

The caves map is a good idea, but I'd like to wait and see what surprises is Schot preparing for us

Also it would be quite a complex thing, as there is no name to use as a reference for the caves, and there is nothing distinctive between each other but the location. Sincerely, I think this could be also very cool, but I'm sorry I can't imagine any easy solution for this in short term.

But let's wait and see how this section grows, and who knows... impossible is nothing

 

Well, I hope you all like the job is being done here!

See ya.

 

Zeno

 

Something like this perhaps Llama? SIF Underworld Map It's certainly doable but I'll avoid using flash and maybe use CSS mouse over borders instead. Something to the effect anyway. Would be fun to have for sure. Caves... I've been avoiding that kind of a map. A cave map could be nice but I think most caves are relatively usesless. I suppose being able to know what cave is useless so that a player doesn't waste time visiting it could be useful. If I were to do that I think I would begin by working on the interesting caves first such as the Carnach Cave, the Thylysium sewers, the Ancestors Chambers caves etc... Something worth while for sure. Added to the looong list. ^^

 

 

On that note I need to sleep but will check this out tomorrow. Maybe toss that mini Icons template together.

[Zeno 2]

I also thought of this for the clickable map; it's only an image with clickable regions. It isn't as cool as the Underworld map (it has no mousover effects) but it's much easier to implement :trans:

 

Zeno

[Llama8 8]

The caves map is a good idea, but I'd like to wait and see what surprises is Schot preparing for us

Also it would be quite a complex thing, as there is no name to use as a reference for the caves, and there is nothing distinctive between each other but the location. Sincerely, I think this could be also very cool, but I'm sorry I can't imagine any easy solution for this in short term.

 

I thought about putting an icon on a map (maybe Schot's awesome google-y map of awesomness?), probably with 2 different icons, one for a "normal" cave & one for a quest cave (ideally with it linking through to the quest walkthrough when you click on it). The "easiest" way to do that would be to run a new character through each region & note the cave locations on a map in windowed mode, or maybe take screenshots of each cave location then sort through it afterwards.

 

Edit: It might be easier to run through the regions backwards (Wastelands -> HE region), as there are fewer caves in the later regions (most of the caves are in the HE/Human region).

[Zeno 2]

Thanx! I got to thinking that it may be easy enough to create a mini template for the icons. Something like {{Icons||1||2||3||4||5||6||7||8}} Where each number represents an icon. Wiki members could then just delete unneeded icons by removing corresponding numbers. It's something that can be added in a few days. I'm eager to set that up and see how well it can work.

 

OMG! That template is fantastic!

I only have one thing to suggest about it: a "None" option. It could be a 0 (zero) option which would write "None" in bold instead of a picture. Anyway, this will probably be very few cases, so it can be done by typing the table manually when a "None" is required...

 

I'm going to update the template as well as those places which are already done. Btw, those done are now Teardrop, Villa Boerdijk and half the Kobold Camp, all in Tyr Lysia. But still have to make updates in all them (add pictures, complete quests/NPCs info, etc).

 

Zeno

[Schot 407]

Isn't it neat! Took me a while to figure things out but it turned out better than I expected. I can certainly add another field for None. I'll see about adding that to the end of it. If you'd like it to read a sentence that's possible to. So typing None would give "There are no services to be found in {{PAGENAME}}. Awesome work on the places Zeno. lookin good!

 

@Llama: Creating markers as you say would be something I'd like to see very much. Sadly, the maps are limited in terms of how many markers can be placed per map. To work around that limitation I plan to upload the region maps. Smaller sections will mean less markers for each map which should then allow more freedom such as creating markers that will link to wiki pages. I had a look at the maps I made for regions and I'll need to edit them a bit.

 

Cheers!

[Zeno 2]

Isn't it neat! Took me a while to figure things out but it turned out better than I expected. I can certainly add another field for None. I'll see about adding that to the end of it. If you'd like it to read a sentence that's possible to. So typing None would give "There are no services to be found in {{PAGENAME}}.

 

That would be nice! Btw, I've being having a look to parsers syntax, and I've experimented a bit with templates (see wiki). The result is a template named "Icon" which can store a list of available icons inside, and just print the one you want. This can be later used, as shown in the "Test" named template, to make a table as the one the "Icons" template makes, but without needing all 16 cells to be written. Well, just take a look on them and think whether they can help or not. I hope so!

Cheers,

 

Zeno

 

 

Edit: Later I've experimented with the #switch command, which avoids empty spaces being generated by the #if clauses and makes code much more understandable. Now you can use the form {{Test|2|7|15}} and you would get the table with those icons you typed (2, 7 and 15)

Edited June 11, 2009 by Zeno

[Schot 407]

You my friend have just reached a whole new level of respect from me. Prepare to be worshiped! I was intending to create a topic about accomplishing that very thing, lol. Zeno, you do great things! Thanx so much for figuring that out. I believe this new technology can be applied to a great many things. Exceptional work! I am so thrilled with the Icons template.

[Zeno 2]

Prepare to be worshiped!

Aaargh!

 

Sell, you can take a look here to see parser functions syntax and other stuff; it's where I took it from. Most of it is quite clear, with some examples.

 

Zeno

[Llama8 8]

Well, my last TG was brutally dismantled by the final Guardian in Gold, I'm inclined to go through & plot the positions of all of the caves (by region). Is there any particular map/icons you'd prefer me to use?

[colif 36]

I came here to request a map of caves... Llama beat me too it. I have no experience with html so I will leave it to the experts. Region maps would be the best place for caves, as well as all the quest markers.

[Zeno 2]

I came here to request a map of caves... Llama beat me too it. I have no experience with html so I will leave it to the experts. Region maps would be the best place for caves, as well as all the quest markers.

Actually I think lots of work can be done to make the map of caves becom a reality. IMHO a caves inventory/catalogue should be done before any map; if you don't know how many caves there are and where they are placed you will find to make a map is a terribly hard work. Probably the most important thing to do is to find a way to indentify each cave as unique, and then build a inventory/catalogue on the top of this. And all this may not require any html knowledgment; probably discussing for a while will be enough

 

Well, my last TG was brutally dismantled by the final Guardian in Gold, I'm inclined to go through & plot the positions of all of the caves (by region). Is there any particular map/icons you'd prefer me to use?

I hope it wasn't a HC char... Anyway, which level is it? I went through gold campaign with my SW around level 50 I think... and was a nice challenge. Anyway, I never played any TG over level 5 I think... maybe I should give it a try! About the icons/maps, I would prefer the cave icon used in tab-maps. I don't know if there is any in the bucket account... mmm... yes, this one:

About the map, I really don't know, but it would be nice a tab-map styled one, like the one Schot uses. Sure he can give better advise on this

 

 

Returning to the places project itself, I've looked into more complex functions to use in wiki templates. One of them could be loop functions (for, foreach, while, etc), but they require the wiki LoopExtensions to be installed, and I guess they aren't. With them I could resume the Icons template into 3 maybe 4 lines of code, much cleaner than now is, and would remove the parameter limit... what a pity!

 

Maybe I take a deeper look on it later. Until then...

Cheers,

 

Zeno

[gogoblender 3,072]

Bravo you two! Schot and Zeno, the work you've been adding is just downright fantastic. The pages from the wiki places are starting to look like pages out of national geographic!

 

From wiki to Art Piece

 

Good job!

 

 

gogo

[Llama8 8]

Actually I think lots of work can be done to make the map of caves becom a reality. IMHO a caves inventory/catalogue should be done before any map; if you don't know how many caves there are and where they are placed you will find to make a map is a terribly hard work. Probably the most important thing to do is to find a way to indentify each cave as unique, and then build a inventory/catalogue on the top of this. And all this may not require any html knowledgment; probably discussing for a while will be enough

I was thinking of taking pic's of each cave (on the main map) during gameplay & then sorting out where each one is on a map (to be uploaded) after that. Possibly taking pics of the inside of the caves as well.

 

Well, my last TG was brutally dismantled by the final Guardian in Gold, I'm inclined to go through & plot the positions of all of the caves (by region). Is there any particular map/icons you'd prefer me to use?

I hope it wasn't a HC char... Anyway, which level is it? I went through gold campaign with my SW around level 50 I think... and was a nice challenge.

Yeah, it was HC...

 

About the icons/maps, I would prefer the cave icon used in tab-maps. I don't know if there is any in the bucket account... mmm... yes, this one:

Yup, I'd definitely prefer that icon, not sure how we could differentiate quest-based caves though, and by that I mean caves that are only unlocked if you have the relevant quest.

[Zeno 2]

I was thinking of taking pic's of each cave (on the main map) during gameplay & then sorting out where each one is on a map (to be uploaded) after that. Possibly taking pics of the inside of the caves as well.

I'm, really sorry if I repeat myself again and again, but I can't guess how to sort them out. Maybe it is as easy as giving each cave a name, or just picking its coordinate in the interactive map. What do you think? I really think (again) that we need to identify each cave in a unique way... Do you agree?

 

Yup, I'd definitely prefer that icon, not sure how we could differentiate quest-based caves though, and by that I mean caves that are only unlocked if you have the relevant quest.

Maybe a greyed version of the icon could work. The greyed icon for nothing-interesting-inside caves, and brown (normal) for locked/quest caves. It would be as easy as opening the icon with your favourite image editor and saving it in grey scale

Then you can make a similar page layout as we use in places of ancaria section, with the 'm' map and tab map screenshots, and a description on what you can find inside, enemies and so on. There you could also indicate in a 'notes' section if the cave is locked and when it gets unlocked. It would be quite a hard job, but also cool!