Chance to disregard armour

[gogoblender 3,079]

Making my first High Elf

 

Wooooooooo

 

 

She's awesome, I love her...course I want to know lots about damage... I know that Ignore Armor is nice for melee/ranged...but does it work for magic as well?

 

It's a bit boring with just having to work with Ca levels and element damage ... I need some more spice in my Ice Elf's life... I actually socketed a little more than ten percent, but I wasn't too sure about the numbers I was getting back...

 

Does anyone have some more insight into this or a more definite answer?

 

Thanks!

 

 

gogo

[Dragon Brother 619]

Ahh..gogo...while I have no idea, the wiki comes to the rescue

 

The Spell Intensity page says:

 

This modifier is important for spell casters as it allows a character (or monster) to deal maximum damage with their spells more often. Spell Intensity of the attacker is compared to the target's Spell Resistance. If the attacker is unable to overcome the target's spell resistance, he will inflict considerably less damage. This damage may be decreased even further by the opponent's armor. Note that it will not increase damage, only the chance of doing full damage. This modifier may be found upon bought or found jewelry, weapons or armor.

So I guess if more armour decreases the damage they take, then lessening their armour would increase your damage. And good spell intensity probably helps.

Edited May 16, 2010 by Dragon Brother

[locolagarto 15]

So disregard armor will help with spell damage, but what triggers the disregard. is it on all the time or triggered by a "hit". other bonuses like Deathblow require a weapon hit, so how can we test disregard armor to see if it works?

[gogoblender 3,079]

hmmm, I was wondering same thing. Could we take a naked with just the most simplest socket, let's say on a sword and put disregard armor in it. Take it on and off while someone is firing spell at him. Is this reference enough?

 

Dragon Brother this is interesting connecting it to spell intensity. lol, now I have to pull up all the stuff on both I can find. I remember rooster and soldats had done a lot of testing on these item mods, but I'm just not sure if that is still in effect with ice and blood.

 

 

gogo

[locolagarto 15]

hmmm, I was wondering same thing. Could we take a naked with just the most simplest socket, let's say on a sword and put disregard armor in it. Take it on and off while someone is firing spell at him. Is this reference enough?

 

Dragon Brother this is interesting connecting it to spell intensity. lol, now I have to pull up all the stuff on both I can find. I remember rooster and soldats had done a lot of testing on these item mods, but I'm just not sure if that is still in effect with ice and blood.

 

 

gogo

 

maybe 2 officers sabers of the same level . one full of chance to disregard and one empty. switch back and forth while casting on a champ and see what the diff is?

[chattius 2,540]

reduce physical armour

 

I put the question here because it might be related:

If I do a weapon hit with reduce enemies physical armour then the target has an evil effect on it lastring 30 seconds which will reduce it's physical armour.

What does apply means in the wiki :That the effect is only triggered by weapon hits, or that the effect takes only effect at weapon hits?

 

If you are testing disregard armour, perhaps it is a similiar effect? Sadly no time to play this week: My wife is at a conference at Munich and left me alone with the kids.

[claudius 104]

gogo this pure caster inquisitor => http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13939 use 60 to 80 ignore armor in engame gear. Why not PM gasconron? Not sure if its from ice and blood..

[essjayehm 58]

I remember being told by Schot that disregard was not working with his bolting terror, when he tested vs. Olms in the swamp.

 

I had thought that maybe disregard was helping with my TG Source Warden spells, but I think I figured it was deathblow after Schot had said that disregard was not working with non-weapon based Combat Arts.

 

After taking deathblow from my TG, I feel that he was correct, but did not really test too much further than that.

 

I'm sure he'll chime in when he sees this thread!

[Rusto 0]

Does it affect spells? I see its on Saraki's path to the Netherworld set, which is focused on spell casting. So I'm assuming it can happen with every spell that hits? Any confirmation of this would be great.

 

Cheers!

[claudius 104]

Gogo asked the same question recently. I linked to a build in the guides section. An Inquisitor build by Gasconron. It was a pure caster. He sounded to know what he was talking about throughout the guide. He lists in his end game gear that he collected the mod disregard armor to the level of 60-80 which seems unattainable to me but I have only seen jewelry up to like 75 so maybe the later jewelry gets higher amounts.

 

I don't totally understand it though because I am getting like 7% disregard at level 75. Even if you had 20% disregard on later jewels wouldn't it be better to socket 4 whet niob smith arts for 160% damage than to cut their armor? I'll illustrate with some example numbers which are not from actual game numbers...

 

Ok we usually do more damage than their armor unless its wrong element like hitting carnach with fire or something.. (Or say having low damage extra damage that isn't cutting through armor like the temple guardian shield pulse that deals a small amount of magic damage repeatedly)

 

 

 

So say we do 1000 damage. They will be lucky if they have 500 armor, no? If I have 80 disregard armor and I hit a training dummy with 500 armor that just measures damage dealt I hit it 10 x... 500 x 2 + 1000 x 8 = 9000 damage.

 

Now I remove the disregard and put in 160% damage from smith arts. Now I do 2600 a hit and hit 10 times for 2100 x 10 = 21000 damage. That means I can do 3x more damage by just focus on dealing more damage rather than cutting armor.

 

Of course if you do want to hit carnach with fire you would be better off disregarding armor. Also I have made assumptions that may not be true of sacred combat system.... There is pretty much now way to figure this stuff out other than to try to 2 socketing methods I mention and see if one "feels" faster or even measure xp per minute with each of them and see if theres a difference.

 

 

Due to this disparity I have a suspicion that low armor and a big hit has some hidden factors that make you do way more damage than expected. If that hypothesis is correct I would expect fire damage to deal way more damage to animals and undead even than expected by the math of damage - armor because effectively they have no fire armor so its the same as 'disregarded'. Could this be true?

 

 

Edit also maybe my mathematics is influenced because I am running around with niob smith arts in silver so lets say different numbers

 

dealing 550 damage and 500 armor? Disregard gives us 550 x 8 + 50 x 2 = 4300 in ten hits if I added correct

550 x 2.6 (+160%) = about 1400 x 10 = 14000 in ten hits and still much better?

 

Nope niob whets appear to ROCK compaired to disregard if the system works how I say it is which is probably not true

Edited May 21, 2010 by claudius

[locolagarto 15]

I merged you with gogo's thread so we can keep the subjects together.

 

Cheer

 

loco

[Rusto 0]

Haha nps, glad you said so, else I would look like a pillack asking the exact same thing Gogo did in the same thread

[claudius 104]

Did anyone ever resolve this? I will send gasconron a PM if nobody else has yet

 

I figured out the reason disgregarding armor is good. It is related to the guides section on how armor mitigates damage. Turns out that if you have zero armor a hit can do humungous damage...

 

 

Ok I'll let the cat out of the bag hehe... I was thinking for the upcoming PVP that spike damage would be nice to have and if you put the armor mitigation thread together with disregard armor, a nice weapon choice might have some disregard armor on it. Slow steady damage might be too easy to pot. Of course it could get reflected and kill yourself hahahahamuhamuhahhaha!

[wintermane 0]

As far as I can remember no disregards armor and a whole slew of others dont work at all with spells. Bewteen sacred 1 and 2 they changed alot of modifiers to only work with weapons or weapon based combat arts.

[claudius 104]

Thats a good point. Gasconrons inquisitor guide which he tested well into niob was prepared before the Ice and Blood addition....

 

Well I'll test it some time anyhow it would be easy just look for big spikes in damage you'd just need about 20% for it to be easy to detect.

[claudius 104]

I tested using combat art spells and found disregard armor does NOT affect damage.

 

I used a level 92 character fighting 108 level turtles. Without the disregard gloves or sockets/rings filled he was doing 62 or 89 damage with level 1 skeletal fortification on these platinum turtles. Crits up to 125 I think.

 

Then added the gloves (Denderans) which had no mods which should affect a spell other than the possible disregard. I filled sockets in gear with disregard. The other mods on the rings were rph and damage XX - XX which shouldn't affect a straight up spell..

 

All totaling I had 80.8% disregard armor so this should have seen some obvious different numbers.

 

After socketing/gloving I still saw the same damage to the turtle...

 

Therefore I believe disregard armor does NOT work for spells.

[Furian67 15]

Ok, for the tower it doesn't work. Did you try the Spectral Hand? Even though it is a hybrid "spell", it might show something.

[claudius 104]

Spectral hand has attack/defense so its a weapon attack. But no I didn't try it. Would be slightly more challenging because weapon attacks deal a range of damage so it would be harder to tell if something was variation in a range or a true difference. With skellie fort I only ever did 62 or 85 unless it was a crit so it was VERY obvious that disregard didn't do anything.

 

As far as Magic Coup, Archangel Wrath, and Spectral Hand usually characters that use those skills also use spells such that you would want sockets filled with things that help all of your attacks. Especially for elf as all other combat arts use spells. I can see this being a question of interest for some Seras and Shadow Warriors.

 

I'd test it but like I say its a range and might be painful to test.