I need help forming a Seraphim build

[Xios 0]

Hey all. I'm pretty new to Sacred 2 and have immediately been drawn to the Seraphim. I've only had the game for 3 days and have played through the first lil bit of the game about 3 times so far as I've been reading up allot about the underlying mechanics of the game and have restarted and applied what I have learned to building a decent, focused Seraphim character. I have reached level 18 so far and have simply restarted again and again as I have found out new information and realized the error in my previous choices.

 

I've come to a point of deciding I want the build I will be writing about in this post. I will lay out what I know I want to use and from that the skills and CAs I feel are important to this. I also need some advice about attribute distribution based on the kind of weapons I want to be using.

 

The main Idea of the build is to have a melee based Seraphim, Dual Wielding. Also based heavily around the use of the two Area of Effect spells Flaring Nova and Radiant Pillar. I also want to use two buffs, possibly 3. The two buffs I definitely want to use are Battle Stance and Warding Energy. The third Buff I want to use situationaly is Cleansing Brilliance.

 

I also want to make very frequent use of Pelting Strikes (possibly having this in a combination with Soul Hammer), and hopefully be able to balance the re-gen times inorder to have Dashing Alacrity running (almost?) constantly. This is the main forefront of the build I have in mind.

 

I'm also thinking about the use of Archangel's Wrath and Baneful Smite although I believe these skills will only really be used in a very situational basis as they seem to fit better with more of a ranged based character. As this build is very much about close quarters, casting the Area of Effect spells and finishing off the enemies by using the various Exalted warrior combat arts and/or the basic melee attacks while relying on the Buffs (and attribute build which I will be referring to later), the two range type 'shooting' combat arts I feel aren't really worth it. But I may be wrong and they could easily be fit in. I just don't want to go inadvertently wasting points on skills that aren't high in priority.

 

Two Combat arts I'm totally not interested in are BeeEffGee and Instill Belief. With them out of the way the remaining combat arts I am very unsure about.

I have already mentioned Soul Hammer, to which I am fairly happy to use in a combination with pelting strikes. Assailing somersault may be a possibility to use, I can see that as a way of closing ground and entering melee range quickly in times of need and also as a means of quick escape out of melee range in times of peril.

Again Hallowed restoration seems like a decent support skill, yet considering the amount of health potions picked up I don't see this as being very high on the list of priority as health can be gained very easily through potions.

Divine Protection seems like a problem as it turns off Warding Energy when it depletes, which is a glitch I believe. Although more defense is always a good idea, again I am reluctant to put runes into this if there is something more in keeping with this offense based build I could be saving the runes and putting into. Defense I feel is adequate with what I already have planned.

 

Having read my train of thought, what possible advice could you give me in relation to what skills are most relevant to my intended play style? As you can see, some aspects I'm pretty certain about, other areas are a bit hazy for me.

 

Now lets talk about Skills.

 

I have today found out about the highly important integral mechanic of skill regeneration time balancing. With that in mind I need advice on the order I should be learning skills and how many points I need to be prioritizing in to which ones in regards to the skills I want to be learning first and also the best order in which I should be learning the skills I mentioned above. (re: should I be focusing on physical swords and defense first, or do I go for focusing on the Area of Effect and Buffs first? As this effects which skills I will be learning first I believe I will need to plan in advance as if I choose to go for the Area of Effect route first for example I will possibly need to go for revered technology lore and pump 5 points into it inorder to unlock revered technology focus by the time I can add a third or fourth skill slot at around level 8 or so [?] so I can safely keep leveling up flaring nova while keeping the re-gen time low by pumping points into revered technology focus.)

 

I will now list the skills I feel are important to this build, of course I may be totally wrong and this is one of the main areas I want help on.

 

Concentration - I will obviously be needing this as it reduces the re-gen time for all combat arts and of course its integral to having two buffs.

- How many points do I need to put into this? should this be of high priority?

 

Armor Lore - I see this as important in any build as it negates the re-gen penalty received from wearing armor.

- How many points do I need to put into this? should this be of high priority?

 

Sword Weapons - Speaks for itself, a central aspect of this build

 

Dual Wield - I obviously need this as I want to dual wield.

- I'm really clueless about this skill, how many points do I need to put into this. I feel this is quite important as I want to be dual wielding, should I focus on this more once I have it than Sword weapons?

 

Exalted Warrior Focus - I feel I will be needing to put allot of points into this as this aspect is the 'fullest' out of the three aspects due to the number of CAs I will be using in this aspect.

- When should I learn this and how many points should I put into this?

 

Revered Technology Lore, and Focus - these are very important for increasing the effectiveness and decreasing the re-gen time of Flaring Nova (and possibly Archangel's wrath if I use it)

- At what point should I learn Revered technology lore to leave enough time to learn Focus before putting to many runes into Flaring Nova and ruining the usability of it through having a too high re-gen time? How many points should I be putting in to these and how high a priority should these be?

 

Warding Energy Lore - I feel this might be an important aspect of having an effective Buff support. This skill is I feel a questionable choice and in my build draft I bracketed it with a question mark as I'm unsure about choosing this skill. I feel there may be a better choice.

 

Celestial Magic Lore, and Focus - This is also a questionable choice. Celestial Magic Lore to me seems an obvious choice though for the increased effectiveness of radiant pillar, although the problem I face is that Radiant pillar is the only skill in this aspect I want to be using for sure. Baneful smite and Cleansing Brilliance I am sill uncertain about so due to this I am reluctant to committing to put points into this entire aspect for the sake of one skill only. This is also the reason I am unsure about choosing Celestial Magic Focus as a learned skill. It seems quite a heavy investment for one skill. I feel It may be more beneficial choosing I different Skill all-together instead of Celestial magic focus.

- I need considerable advice on this point.

 

Please provide me with allot of help about the specific order I should be learning these skills in, and why. Also the prioritizing of points into these skills and why

 

Attribute distribution.

 

Considering I want to be using One Handed Swords do I focus mainly on putting attribute points into Strength? I also need some advice about basic att point distribution with my build. What would be best? I'm at a bit of a loss with this as all of the different attributes seem equally as relevant.

 

Having read over this post, (and if you have reached this far lol). What would you say is the best thing for me to do? Have I made any blaring mistakes with my choices? have I missed out anything obvious, can you think of any better choices for certain skills or combat arts?

 

Also what would you say are the best types of things should I be adding to the sockets in swords and armor? I'm a bit in the dark about this aspect of the game also. Do people usually use the elemental type damage things (like chunk of lava e.t.c.) or is it better to go for the +all skills e.t.c.? Some overall advice here would be wicked.

 

I think that's about it really, other than any other general advice about gameplay and playing a Seraphim. Thanks for reading, I look forward to your replies.

Edited June 18, 2010 by Xios

[locolagarto 15]

Welcome Xios!

 

I moved your thread into the discussions section. once you get it up and tested as a full guide we can move it to the guides area.

 

btw I have a guide in the works that is very similar to what you are trying. I am at level 104 in Platinum and its is going well. I will be posting it soon.

[Ryanrocker 200]

Welcome to the forum Xios! Big post there, lol

A good build that models what you are trying to accomplish is Barristan's Archangel build that can be found HERE

Regarding your stat point distribution, soldats wrote a very good explanation about why he choses stamina over all others in a majority of his builds.

 

attributes-

 

I follow this template I developed for all my characters.

1-49- 1vit

50-149- 1vit/1sta

150-200[if you get to 200]- 1vit/2sta

 

why stamina? why not int for casters or str/dex for weapon users? because anything other than sta is misleading. an often overlooked property of Combat Arts is their modification scaling based on ca level. the only way to effectively raise these modifiers' values is to raise Combat Arts, which means incurring a higher regen penalty. sta reduces penalties, so much so that I strive to find +sta on gear and make it a high priority. even over vit. str/dex/int does not allow for rune consumption, only to raise damage without respect to ca level. example- archangel's wrath mod explosive. if left at ca level 1[realistic...maybe 20], the chance for Area of Effect is less, but damage is increased through the proper weapon attribute, str or dex. if pumping sta, you can increase the damage of aw, while indirectly raising the chance for Area of Effect until it is 100%. a caveat...once you reach the point of penalty because you've eaten too many runes past what your focus dictates, raising str/dex/int will benefit you more than sta, but that is for advanced players with intimate knowledge of their character and her gear and specific playstyle.

[Dobri 55]

I'll try to answer from my own extensive experience with the seraphim:

 

1. Concentration - I will obviously be needing this as it reduces the re-gen time for all combat arts and of course its integral to having two buffs.

- How many points do I need to put into this? should this be of high priority?

 

->>>>> It's a priority only if you go for a 3-buff build, which applies only to 3-aspect builds (Battle stance, Cleansing Brilliance, Warding Energy) and the BFG build (BFG, Warding Energy, Battle Stance) - in this case, get it to 75 by level 75 and leave it at that. Otherwise, leave 1 point in it.

 

2. Armor Lore - I see this as important in any build as it negates the re-gen penalty received from wearing armor.

- How many points do I need to put into this? should this be of high priority?

 

->>>>> I always master this by level 75 or 80 and leave it at 75 hard points. Mastery in this skill opens up all channel (all types) damage mitigation (% of damage nullified) on rare armors and a very rare stacked damage mitigation (2x all channel or all channel + 1 channel) which outweighs the set items' damage mitigation. It's priceless.

 

3. Dual Wield - I obviously need this as I want to dual wield.

- I'm really clueless about this skill, how many points do I need to put into this. I feel this is quite important as I want to be dual wielding, should I focus on this more once I have it than Sword weapons?

 

->>>>> If you decide to dual wield, you should either master it or invest in a lot of + all skills to warrant a decent Dual Wield level, as it improves your max item level and attack speed with both weapons. Sword weapons lore works good with it, since mastery in sword weapons opens up master sword modifiers, while dual wield doesn't open a thing. Problem is, once you get a decent two-hander with good Life Leech % on it, you may want to drop the dual wielding...

 

4. Exalted Warrior Focus - I feel I will be needing to put allot of points into this as this aspect is the 'fullest' out of the three aspects due to the number of CAs I will be using in this aspect.

- When should I learn this and how many points should I put into this?

 

->>>>> That depends on your play style. If you want to spam combat arts (Combat Arts), you should obviously work on it rather than concentration, as it both improves the regen time and the max CA level. In my opinion - master it. It greatly helps the dual wielder seraphim.

 

5. Revered Technology Lore, and Focus - these are very important for increasing the effectiveness and decreasing the re-gen time of Flaring Nova (and possibly Archangel's wrath if I use it)

- At what point should I learn Revered technology lore to leave enough time to learn Focus before putting to many runes into Flaring Nova and ruining the usability of it through having a too high re-gen time? How many points should I be putting in to these and how high a priority should these be?

 

->>>>> They're both good, but splitting yourself between a few aspects means you must pick a primary and a secondary aspect and improve them in that manner. Being a dual wielder, it's possible that the exalted aspect will be your primary one, because Archangel's Wrath, when used with 2 weapons, takes the damage of the right-handed weapon ONLY.

 

6. Celestial Magic Lore, and Focus - This is also a questionable choice. Celestial Magic Lore to me seems an obvious choice though for the increased effectiveness of radiant pillar, although the problem I face is that Radiant pillar is the only skill in this aspect I want to be using for sure. Baneful smite and Cleansing Brilliance I am sill uncertain about so due to this I am reluctant to committing to put points into this entire aspect for the sake of one skill only. This is also the reason I am unsure about choosing Celestial Magic Focus as a learned skill. It seems quite a heavy investment for one skill. I feel It may be more beneficial choosing I different Skill all-together instead of Celestial magic focus.

- I need considerable advice on this point.

 

->>>>> Generally, a well-modded radiant pillar can help the dual wielder, but I'd rather skip this aspect. The buff isn't that important and even though it adds a nice touch to the dual wielder, I'd rather keep it simple.

 

Other advices:

- What you're missing is the Toughness skill. Seraphim's wicked power lies in taking less damage as she gets a lot of set items that provide damage mitigation (% of the total damage goes away just like that) and Toughness just helps her improve that % greatly. High-level seraphims (140+) usually walk around with over 70% damage mitigation.

 

- Another skill you're missing is Constitution, a must-have mastery by level 75 in my opinion for any build. it's easy to die when you're low on hit points and that skill helps a lot.

 

- Revered Focus + Warding energy buff + Warding Energy lore work really well. They don't need revered lore to get better.

 

- There is a good synergy between Battle Stance, Exalted Warrior Focus and Combat reflexes, as they provide substantial evasion on top of the innate buff bonus when modded.

 

- Attribute points for a pure Dual Wielder should all go into vitality in my opinion. Exalted focus helps the regen times perfectly and stamina is not needed. Stamina works well for caster Seraphims, as they need to focus on a good CA level to be effective.

[Xios 0]

thanks for the replies people! Wicked game. I'm really looking forward to sinking my teeth into it. I've got it for the 360 and I've just broken up for the summer so I'm pretty well set

 

I'm purely just in the process of trying to learn the mechanics of the game. Its quite complex really, it seems simple on the surface but underneath it's actually quite a sensitive system. I'm checking out the Archangel build. I might follow that as a first build to be honest. It seems like a much better idea than trying to flap about making a custom build before I really understand the nature of the many variables involved in doing such.

 

In the Archangel build. Does it really matter what points you put into what skills as long as you follow the skills listed order of learning? I noticed the build guide doesn't really go into what points go into which skills and at all. Of course this may be normal and it should be known so is purely down to me not knowing a few fundamentals about the game.

 

I guess what im saying is does it matter which order you learn combat arts as long as your following a fairly decent order and making sure you balance out the relevant CAs with the corresponding skills? I feel like I'm sort of being a bit 'too' rigid with my approach to this.

[Ryanrocker 200]

Glad to be of help The skills to put many points into would be Rev Tech Lore, Armor Lore, Toughness, Constitution and Tactics Lore (others may differ on this opinion). Regarding CAs I would mod in order:

Exalted Warrior Tree

1. Battle Stance

2. Pelting Strikes

3. Dashing Alacrity

4. Soul Hammer

 

Rev Tech Tree

1. Flaring Nova

2. Archangel's Wrath

3. Divine Protection

 

Celestial Magic Tree

1. Radiant Pillar

2. Hallowed Restoration

[Barristan 14]

And... if you ever have questions about the Archangel, feel free to post them in that thread. I will try and answer all you need to know.

 

Good luck and have fun!

 

Greetz

[Xios 0]

Dobri, I FULLY didn't see your post when I wrote my first reply back! really sorry if you thought I'de been so cheeky as to not even mention you writing out such a long and informative reply!

 

Brilliant reply. Extremely helpful in me really getting in touch with the nature of seraphim, especially the part about seraphims being mainly about damage mitigation.

 

Considering your responses to points 3 and 5 about dual wielding and Revered technology lore and focus, I feel I am more comfortable with prioritizing the Revered technology aspects first as it has always been my intention to have Flaring nova as a main damage dealer due to a considerably low re-gen time. It has been my intention to focus on getting this down to a re-gen time of 2.5 to 3 seconds while still keeping it as powerful as possible through rune consumption, so I see the prioritization of Revered technology focus (through getting Lore 'very' early and investing points in to unlock focus asap) higher than that of choosing dual wielding as an option earlier on.

 

Even though the character is a dual wield character it is my intention to create somewhat of a balanced hybrid build between dual wield and the combat arts I have mentioned I am interested in using.

 

Considering your advice on point 6 and radiant pillar. Can I rely on the CA reg-en time mitigation of concentration and armor lore to keep this radiant pillars re-gen time as low as possible? This seems to be the point you are making when you say "I would rather skip this aspect". I see this as logical as I also agree that investing in two skills slots for the sake of one combat art is too high an investment.

 

Considering your other advice at the end of your post. I will be choosing toughness and constitution as skills in place of where I would have chosen celestial magic lore/focus due to the points you have raised regarding such.

 

Am I wrong in thinking I need 5 points in revered energy lore inorder to unlock revered energy focus? You mentioned you do not need Lore inorder for warding energy buff and warding energy lore and revered energy focus do not need revered technology lore to be effective. Concentration and exalted worrior focus (the two primary skills of that aspect I will be using) would only need a total of 5 points inorder to unlock the use of Tech Lore, right?

 

With all this in mind I feel I have a much stronger grasp of playing seraphim. I will make sure I come back to ask more questions when they arise, thank you all for your responses. Feel free to comment on questions raised in this post.

 

Xios.

[Dobri 55]

1. Considering your advice on point 6 and radiant pillar. Can I rely on the CA reg-en time mitigation of concentration and armor lore to keep this radiant pillars re-gen time as low as possible? This seems to be the point you are making when you say "I would rather skip this aspect". I see this as logical as I also agree that investing in two skills slots for the sake of one combat art is too high an investment.

 

->>>> I think armor lore + concentration should cut it, but without aspect investment, you'll be forced to play with low level on the radiant pillar. Besides, the radiant pillar becomes useful to a hybrid only when modded properly, and that requires investment in the aspect skills. A pillar modded for: Delude - Reduces opponents' attack values within the area of effect. (650 + 10 per CA level), Conserve - Increases duration of Radiant Pillar. (50% increase), and Magnify - Increase damage of Radiant Pillar. (35.7% increase (guess)) suits the hybrid build really well (reduced enemy attack values, higher duration to help offset the low ca level), but without the aspect, this is a no go, since you can't get points to mod it.

 

2. Am I wrong in thinking I need 5 points in revered energy lore inorder to unlock revered energy focus? You mentioned you do not need Lore inorder for warding energy buff and warding energy lore and revered energy focus do not need revered technology lore to be effective. Concentration and exalted worrior focus (the two primary skills of that aspect I will be using) would only need a total of 5 points inorder to unlock the use of Tech Lore, right?

 

->>>> well, you don't, but it would require investing 5 points in first tier skills, like exalted warrior focus and concentration, in order to unlock the second tier skills, like revered focus. Revered lore is free to unlock. I assumed that since you're making a dual wielder, you'll work on exalted focus a lot, since it greatly helps the dual wielder and greatly improves the combat art levels for the aspect, which means less regen time for higher ca level, and that should suffice to open revered focus.

 

As for other suggestions... you have a good idea for your build, so you should work on it and see how it goes. I personally like simplified builds, as they get powerful easily and are a lot easier to maintain and work with. For example, a basic offensive-utility DW build for a seraphim is:

 

1. Tactics lore

2. Armor lore

3. Dual Wield

4. Exalted Focus

5. Constitution

6. Toughness

7. Combat reflexes

8. Combat discipline

9. Enhanced perception

10. Bargaining

 

This build uses powerful pelting strikes like crazy, can master 4 main skills by level 80 (Armor, Tactics, Constitution, Exalted focus) which makes her very powerful right from the start.

 

Or a defensive dual wielder:

1. Tactics lore

2. Armor lore

3. Dual Wield

4. Exalted Focus

5. Constitution

6. Toughness

7. Concentration

8. Revered focus

9. Warding Energy Lore

10. Enhanced Perception/Sword weapons/Revered Lore

 

It has it all. Great 2 buffs, amazing protection, very much invincible, but it takes a little time to shine, as you must prioritize the masteries carefully, and based on your main aspect.

[Xios 0]

I've just been reading a few Seraphim guides. One of them had something in which I don't quite understand. It says that "you don't have to worry about how many runes you put into Dashing Alacricity, devine protection or Battle stance. Am I right in thinking that adding runes to battle stance increases the regen time for all combat arts, or at least increases the regen times for all combat arts in the same aspect? If this is true I think that pointer in the guide is wrong.

 

Be that as it may I have played around with battle stance to see if it actually increases the regen times and it doesnt seem to make any noticable difference. It lists an increase to the regen times in its details, yet I don't see an increase in any of the regen times for any of the combat arts. I've also actually casted before and after and timed it and I don't sense any difference.

 

I'm a little confused about this, could someone clarify this for me please?

 

Also, on a side note, what is the best type of weapon for a HE? My girlfriends playing a HE and prefers using bows, I mentioned something about maybe using a mages staff, but they seem pretty whack if you ask me. Does using a mages staff as a HE hold any benefits atall? Or is it cool to go for any type of weapon?

 

Cheers, Xios

[locolagarto 15]

Dashing and Devine are both minibuffs. they have a long cool down. And reading Runes into them does increase the regen, but it is small compared to the cooldown. so read all you want.

 

Battle Stance is different. First you have to look at it all by its self. reading runes into Battle Stance does increase the regen of all combat arts. However you have to take this into context with the authors build mechanics.

 

For Example in my BFG build Loco's Canon I kept all CAs at 1 rune except the 3 we are talking about here. I maxed all three to 200 Runes( Ice & Blood Limitation). as fast a feasible. On the other hand with my la Chusa build I am doing just the opposite. I left all buffs at 1 Rune and used Buff Suits to boost the buffs for casting. So now at level 125 I have the 3 Buffs with level 70 bonuses but the regen penalty of level 1 buffs. and I have all my attack CAs at level 45 to 50.

 

So it's all about understanding the mechanics and exploiting it to make a build that works for you. And there is no replacement for experience. You have to make some crappy builds first before you figure out what works best for you

 

Cheers!

 

Loco