rhs408 7 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 The explainations for this CA from members and the wiki are confusing the heck out of me. First, the wiki description: Skills And Attributes That Affect This Combat Art: Astral Lord Lore Astral Lord Focus Concentration Strength affects Damage. Stamina But then I've read a whole lot of other talk about how tactics lore affects this mod, and that even changing weapons affects this mod. So which is it? Does Astral Lore only increase critical hit and casting speed? Is the wiki missing tactics lore in its description? Someone please clear this up, thank you. Link to comment
Ryanrocker 200 Posted August 3, 2010 Share Posted August 3, 2010 I know that Spectral Hand is based off of weapon damage, and is affected by RpH and LL. Other than that I'm not too sure on what Tactics Lore does. Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Spectral hand, magic coup and archangel's wrath behave the same. Their damage is boosted with the magical lore they are in, but not tactics. It are weapon attacks, so life leech, reg per hit are all triggered. Double hits, attack speed from weapon lore are not used. Since they don't use attack speed from weapon lore they have no malus if you use a too high level weapon. All the stuff which helps hitting with a weapon attack is applied too: x and x% attack value, chance that enemy can't evade, reducing enemy chance to evade, .... Attack speed is affected by the magical lore and casting speed. Higher weapon damage results in better spectral hand. The attribut which boosts the weapon damage is applied too, strength for axes, dexterity for ranged, intelligence for staves, ... Link to comment
gogoblender 3,071 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Spectral hand, magic coup and archangel's wrath behave the same. Their damage is boosted with the magical lore they are in, but not tactics.It are weapon attacks, so life leech, reg per hit are all triggered. Double hits, attack speed from weapon lore are not used. Since they don't use attack speed from weapon lore they have no malus if you use a too high level weapon. All the stuff which helps hitting with a weapon attack is applied too: x and x% attack value, chance that enemy can't evade, reducing enemy chance to evade, .... Attack speed is affected by the magical lore and casting speed. Higher weapon damage results in better spectral hand. The attribut which boosts the weapon damage is applied too, strength for axes, dexterity for ranged, intelligence for staves, ... Bravo! This is an amazing write up, reference quality of that small list of Combat Arts that has seemed to defy description, chattius, you have hit it on the head, and I will add extra notes to wiki with this, nice work! Are there any other Combat Arts that would also fit into this grouping, or is it just those three? gogo Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Just these 3. Since a weapon skill seems to just unlock stuff and adds around 400 attack value at skill level 200 I don't take a weapon skill anymore for melee elves or builds using one of these 3 Combat Arts. 400 attack value you get easily with 3 +all skill ring which have fixed attack value as second. Link to comment
wintermane 0 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 One thing to note with all the hybrid combat arts they eiother have a chance the target cant evade or they have a built in boost to chance to hit or they dont use a chance to hit at all.. I believe spec hand has a built in boost to chance to hit. Link to comment
chattius 2,529 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 unmodified spec hand has: 20+35*level base attack value 1,15+00.2*level multiplier to base weapon damage 20% +14%*level damage (I think this is added to astral lore, x% damage on equip, ....) So its base attack value. You should use the CAs of the SW which have x% attack value boosting to make good use of it. Note that a level 11 spec hand gives same base attack value than 200 in a weapon skill. unmodified magic coup: 1.2 +0.02*level multiplier to base weapon damage 50 +2*level base attack value 40%+10%*level percentual attack value 50%+2%*level physical to magic unmodified archangel wrath: 20+35*level base attack value 1.1+0.04*level multiplier to base damage 40%+10%*level percentual damage (adds to x% damage from equip) 90%+10%*level physical to fire (values look buggy) 300 +10*level missile_adapt seems this adds a shot, modifier for extra shot looks same, fireball and ice shard have similiar entries... Makes me wonder if real high archangel wraths may shoot more than 2 times Link to comment
Ryanrocker 200 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Makes me wonder if real high archangel wraths may shoot more than 2 times How high would high be? I can do single player test Link to comment
ololcat 3 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Makes me wonder if real high archangel wraths may shoot more than 2 times How high would high be? I can do single player test Just did a little test, 132 levels are not enough Link to comment
Ryanrocker 200 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Lol too funny, just finished test with 103 levels and no go Link to comment
ololcat 3 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I think, to test this we need a 200-level character with 200 points in Tech Focus, 200 runes eaten plus "AW Suit", socketed with +All Skills and +All CAs jewelry (like Second Rings or Lord Wayne's Wild Rages). However, "normal" characters won't forge All Skills+All CAs into every socket their gear have. I also don't think that they will keep Focus at their level 'till 200. So even if it is possible to fire more than two projectiles with AW, it is useless. Link to comment
Ryanrocker 200 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 I think, to test this we need a 200-level character with 200 points in Tech Focus, 200 runes eaten plus "AW Suit", socketed with +All Skills and +All CAs jewelry (like Second Rings or Lord Wayne's Wild Rages). However, "normal" characters won't forge All Skills+All CAs into every socket their gear have. I also don't think that they will keep Focus at their level 'till 200. So even if it is possible to fire more than two projectiles with AW, it is useless. I did test with a 200 character with Tinwora's, a full set of endijans's, and some +CA jewels. Had concentration at 200, Rev Focus at 200, CD at 75, and Armor Lore at 200. Most of those were just for the regen times. Raised CA level to 117 as of now. Link to comment
essjayehm 58 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Should that test to see if AW shoots more than 2 projectiles be done in 2.43? Maybe 25,000 runes and with un-nerfed +allskills can do the trick? I would bet the farm that it's still a no, though. @ wintermane - ALL the weapon-based combat arts have a built-in base attack value increaser. There are a couple (Magic Coup for sure, but not sure which others) have an attack value % increaser as well. Link to comment
ololcat 3 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 (edited) I looked through spells.txt and noticed "missile_count" modifier on dryad's CAs. On unmodded RI it is 300+10*CA level. (Mod adds another 300+10*CA level.) So, unmodded RI at level 30 would shoot two projectiles, at level 60 - three, etc. But it does not. A thought about non-linear formula, used to calculate # of projectiles came to my mind, but DA has missile_count of 900+45*CA level and shoots 3 projectiles (at level 60+ it shoots 4 projectiles, unmodded). Mod provides additional 300+11*CA level missile_count what results in 4 projectiles at CA level 1. Maybe once we understand number of projectiles, we would be able to increase # of shots from AW, Flaring Nova and HE's Fireball Edited August 4, 2010 by ololcat Link to comment
wintermane 0 Posted August 4, 2010 Share Posted August 4, 2010 Should that test to see if AW shoots more than 2 projectiles be done in 2.43? Maybe 25,000 runes and with un-nerfed +allskills can do the trick? I would bet the farm that it's still a no, though. @ wintermane - ALL the weapon-based combat arts have a built-in base attack value increaser. There are a couple (Magic Coup for sure, but not sure which others) have an attack value % increaser as well. My point is some weapon based arts are such that if you mod them right or put enough runes into them you dont need a weapon skill to use them and you dont need tactics. This means they can be used by both caster and weapon users. Link to comment
Dewberry 0 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 (edited) I have both console and Ice & Blood versions. I did not see any extra damage with combat discipline on spectral hand ( and spectral fortification). I tried each with and without combat discipline and the damage numbers are the same. Can anyone confirm the C.D. has no effect on damage for these to C.A.'s? Wiki does not list C.D. as boosting damage for these two C.A.'s. I just assumed it would. Edited August 11, 2010 by jdrdjr Link to comment
FrostElfGuard 9 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 I have both console and Ice & Blood versions. I did not see any extra damage with combat discipline on spectral hand ( and spectral fortification). I tried each with and without combat discipline and the damage numbers are the same. Can anyone confirm the C.D. has no effect on damage for these to C.A.'s? Wiki does not list C.D. as boosting damage for these two C.A.'s. I just assumed it would. ...and you put these combat arts into a combo? And used the combo? {Just to be clear} Link to comment
Dewberry 0 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Yes. Tested in combos and alone. I see no difference in damage numbers Link to comment
gogoblender 3,071 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Then wiki's info is correct as is? gogo Link to comment
Dewberry 0 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 Yep Gogo. Your work is correct as always. I'm still scratching my head on why it does not effect those two c.a.'s Link to comment
gogoblender 3,071 Posted August 11, 2010 Share Posted August 11, 2010 lol, this is good review! This is also a good reminder , I have, because of your comments, updated the new Hybrid Combat Arts Page http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...sed_Combat_Arts I don't blame you for asking about this in the post... with so many different and strange mechanics if you dont see a positively affirmed negative then we have to assume it wasn't tested... now it has, so thank you! I"m also going to put notes in those three Combat Arts linking to their special status as hybrid Combat Arts. This will offer more confirmation to players regarding tested information. gogo Link to comment
Furian67 15 Posted August 16, 2010 Share Posted August 16, 2010 Combat Disipline does effect the Regeneration of Spectral Hand but agreed not the damage. I'm testing Death Blow. Having a hard time seeing if it works or not with only Spectral Hand fasted. I'm using an energy staff and it fires like an Uzi. Link to comment
Dewberry 0 Posted September 2, 2010 Share Posted September 2, 2010 (edited) Has Speed Lore been tested for benifits with Spectral Hand ? If the attack value from Speed Lore works with spectral. Would it be a good skill to use? Edited September 3, 2010 by jdrdjr Link to comment
smetia 1 Posted January 26, 2011 Share Posted January 26, 2011 The explainations for this CA from members and the wiki are confusing the heck out of me. First, the wiki description: Skills And Attributes That Affect This Combat Art: Astral Lord Lore Astral Lord Focus Concentration Strength affects Damage. Stamina But then I've read a whole lot of other talk about how tactics lore affects this mod, and that even changing weapons affects this mod. So which is it? Does Astral Lore only increase critical hit and casting speed? Is the wiki missing tactics lore in its description? Someone please clear this up, thank you. Strenght increase all dmg like skelletal fortification and ancinet magic. Link to comment
Cragnous 0 Posted May 20, 2011 Share Posted May 20, 2011 (edited) Ok I still want to know stuff about SH. If you socket a Whet in it, does the damage go higher? I tried testing it and the results came back negative.. Also, if you have equipement that says +17% physical, does that boost your SH and SF as well? Edited May 20, 2011 by Cragnous Link to comment
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