Spaffo 0 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Ok, I've done some testing. This will hopefully resolve Nether Allegiance mysteries: Difficulty: Niobium Character level: 200 1° Test: Astral Lore: 31 Nether Allegiance: 17 Enemy: level 177 Wolf Max skeleton damage with no mods: 2800 Max skeleton damage with Sharp Blades: 4000 Sharp Blades increases damage by 43% 2° Test Astral Lore: 212 Nether Allegiance: 17 Enemy: level 177 Wolf Max skeleton damage with no mods: 2800 Max skeleton damage with Sharp Blades: 4000 Astral Lore doesn't increase NA damage and doesn't increase Sharp Blades damage bonus 3° Test Astral Lore: 31 Nether Allegiance: 86 Enemy: level 177 Wolf Max skeleton damage with no mods: 5000 Max skeleton damage with Sharp Blades: 7200 Sharp Blades increases damage by 44%. The damage bonus is fixed and doesn't scale with CA level. 4° Test Astral Lore: 212 Nether Allegiance: 86 Enemy: level 177 Wolf Max skeleton damage with no mods: 5000 Max skeleton damage with Sharp Blades: 7200 Nothing new Conclusions - Sharp Blades increases NA damage by a fixed 43-44%. - Sharp Blades damage bonus doesn't scale with Astral Lore - Sharp Blades damage bonus doesn't scale with CA level Link to comment
locolagarto 15 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Nicely Done! that will make a nice addition to the wiki. Note: SacredWiki updated. cheers Link to comment
claudius 104 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 The wiki reports a correlation between combat discipline and the sharp blades mod. I wonder if that is true? Link to comment
Dobri 55 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 In theory, there should be, as CD states that it improves EVERY CA by a small portion. I wonder if that's true for buffs... It will require some more testing to be completely positive, though. Link to comment
Spaffo 0 Posted August 24, 2010 Author Share Posted August 24, 2010 (edited) Combat discipline doesn't have any visible effect. Damage range is the same as without it. By the way, the links in "Some research has been done [1] & [2] that shows the damage increase" in the Wiki are dead. Too bad, they would have made an interesting source. Edited August 24, 2010 by Spaffo Link to comment
gogoblender 3,070 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Nice work Spaffo! I saw the edits that Loco has added, and I saw the broken links. Wiki practice is to not link to any outside sources because we can't guarantee the longevity of any other sources of info on the net with exception of ours. I've removed the broken links. gogo Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 Well...those link were actually to the SIF, they just hadnt been changed to the new domain. They were actually two posts that llama made: I've done a quick check with a level 200 blank character. level 66 NA -> level 227 skellies, with no mods chosen their average damage was 3.3-3.7k (against level ~17x wolves around sloeford). After choosing all 3 bottom mods (+damage, +defence & +resists), their damage was 3.3-5.2k. level 217 CD, no effect on the armour bonus, damage = 4.3k-5.2k (interesting), some crits of ~6k. level 217 Ancient Magic, no effect at all. level 217 Astral Lore, no effect at all. and Interestingly, I re-ran the tests with an unmoded Nether Allegiance & the results were: level 217 CD: 3.2-4.4k damage. So it seems that CD does affect the skellie damage, but it's more noticeable if you take the damage mod (1b Sharp Blades) Link to comment
gogoblender 3,070 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 If the information can be brought directly to the wiki and posted as fact, that would be great. This way source is in the wiki, and leaves it open to being edited by someone else. gogo Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted August 24, 2010 Share Posted August 24, 2010 I dont really think anything needs to be added...the page already says combat discipline increases damage of skellies and thats about all that those quotes tell. Link to comment
Spaffo 0 Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 Well...those link were actually to the SIF, they just hadnt been changed to the new domain. They were actually two posts that llama made: I've done a quick check with a level 200 blank character. level 66 NA -> level 227 skellies, with no mods chosen their average damage was 3.3-3.7k (against level ~17x wolves around sloeford). After choosing all 3 bottom mods (+damage, +defence & +resists), their damage was 3.3-5.2k. level 217 CD, no effect on the armour bonus, damage = 4.3k-5.2k (interesting), some crits of ~6k. level 217 Ancient Magic, no effect at all. level 217 Astral Lore, no effect at all. and Interestingly, I re-ran the tests with an unmoded Nether Allegiance & the results were: level 217 CD: 3.2-4.4k damage. So it seems that CD does affect the skellie damage, but it's more noticeable if you take the damage mod (1b Sharp Blades) This is really interesting, since I haven't noticed any difference using CD. I'll rerun all the tests. Link to comment
locolagarto 15 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Well...those link were actually to the SIF, they just hadnt been changed to the new domain. They were actually two posts that llama made: I've done a quick check with a level 200 blank character. level 66 NA -> level 227 skellies, with no mods chosen their average damage was 3.3-3.7k (against level ~17x wolves around sloeford). After choosing all 3 bottom mods (+damage, +defence & +resists), their damage was 3.3-5.2k. level 217 CD, no effect on the armour bonus, damage = 4.3k-5.2k (interesting), some crits of ~6k. level 217 Ancient Magic, no effect at all. level 217 Astral Lore, no effect at all. and Interestingly, I re-ran the tests with an unmoded Nether Allegiance & the results were: level 217 CD: 3.2-4.4k damage. So it seems that CD does affect the skellie damage, but it's more noticeable if you take the damage mod (1b Sharp Blades) This is really interesting, since I haven't noticed any difference using CD. I'll rerun all the tests. I am curious Spaffo, are you on PC or console and if PC Ice and Blood or FA? Second question is what version did Llama do his test on? FA or Ice and Blood? Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) Id say that its FA, those posts were very old...very old. Edit: Well, I just tested it and CD seemed to increase damage for me. Against some kobolds, no mods/skill points gave 2.1-2.5k damage, level 217 CD gave 2.2-2.5k damage...since the CA level was lowthe damafe and therefore the increase was small. However, picking sharp blades gave 2.5-3.3k damage without CD and 2.7-3.5k damage with level 217 CD. Seems to agree with llamas previous testing. Edited August 25, 2010 by Dragon Brother Link to comment
Spaffo 0 Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) Those might just be random fluctuations... I've redone all the testing, and they mostly confirm what I've said earlier. I'm quite perplexed at some outcomes, though. Ice & Blood Niobium Enemy: level 177 Wolf Kills per test: 5-15 1. Nether Allegiance level: 1 1.1. Unmodded 1.1.1. Astral Lord Lore: 5 1600-1900-2303 [min, max, crit] 1.1.2 Astral Lord Lore: 200 1620-1914-2307 1.1.3 Astral Lord Lore: 200 - Combat Discipline: 200 1627-1895-2304 On unmodded level 1 NA (level 162 skeletons), neither Astral Lord Lore nor Combat Discipline has any effect 1.2. Sharp Blades 1.2.1. Astral Lord Lore: 5 1776-2674-3300 1.2.2 Astral Lord Lore: 200 1781-2795-? 1.2.3 Astral Lord Lore: 200 - Combat Discipline: 200 1809-2751-? Here comes the first oddity: With Astral Lord Lore 5 I was getting 3300 criticals, while with Astral Lord Lore 200, criticals were in the 2800 range. My guess is for RNG fluctuations. However, even with Sharp Blades, ALL and CD have no bearing on damage 2. Nether Allegiance level: 90 2.1. Unmodded 2.1.1. Astral Lord Lore: 5 3600-4400-5300 2.1.2 Astral Lord Lore: 200 3740-4433-5303 2.1.3 Astral Lord Lore: 200 - Combat Discipline: 200 3699-4316-5284 On unmodded level 90 NA, neither Astral Lord Lore nor Combat Discipline has any effect 2.2. Sharp Blades 2.2.1. Astral Lord Lore: 5 4021-5193-6363 2.2.2 Astral Lord Lore: 200 3837-5200-[6444, 7600] Mah... 2.2.3 Astral Lord Lore: 200 - Combat Discipline: 200 3849-4800-6334 Here comes the second oddity: With Astral Lord Lore 200 criticals jumped in the 7600 range, but with both Astral Lord Lore 200 and Combat Discipline 200 they were back in the 6400 range. Cannot explain this :/. Ignoring that, ALL and CD don't offer any visible benefit. (Look at minimum damage, it's always the same) Conclusions: -ALL and CD don't increase NA or Sharp Blades damage (minimum damage remains the same). -There are some strange interactions going on between Sharp Blades (Does the mod equip the skeletons with an actual item? Can we find its properties?), critical hits (I haven't found any info on how these actually work. Help appreciated), ALL and, maybe, CD. They might be related to the RNG, but they're suspicious. Edited August 25, 2010 by Spaffo Link to comment
Spaffo 0 Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) In depth NA weapons research Nether Allegiance related entries in the scripts. The red lines are the one we're interested in. mgr.defineSpell( "sk_ap_kohorte", { eiStateName = "cSpellCast", fxTypeCast = "FX_SK_KOHORTE_C", fxTypeSpell = "FX_SK_KOHORTE", fxTypeCastSpecial = "FX_SK_CAST_L", duration = 10.000000, animType = "ANIM_TYPE_SM17", animTypeApproach = "ANIM_TYPE_INVALID", animTypeRide = "ANIM_TYPE_INVALID", animTypeSpecial = "ANIM_TYPE_RIDESM06-SPECIAL", causesSpellDamage = 1, tokens = { entry0 = {"et_minion_addreg", 0, 15, 0, 8 }, entry1 = {"et_summon_level", 10, 10, 0, 8 }, entry2 = {"et_summon_soldier", 2000, 588, 0, 8 }, entry3 = {"et_minion_replenish", 975, 25, 0, 72 }, entry4 = {"et_summon_soldier", 1000, 0, 1, 8 }, entry5 = {"et_summon_longsword", 0, 1770, 2, 8 }, entry6 = {"et_summon_soldier", 1000, 0, 3, 8 }, entry7 = {"et_summon_towershield", 0, 1771, 4, 8 }, entry8 = {"et_minion_replenish", 490, 10, 5, 72 }, entry9 = {"et_summon_armor", 75, 55, 6, 72 }, }, fightDistance = 0.000000, aspect = "EA_SK_ASTRALPLANE", cooldown = 15.000000, soundProfile = 0, cost_level = 600, cost_base = 600, focus_skill_name = "skill_SK_astral_plane_focus", lore_skill_name = "skill_SK_astral_plane_lore", spellClass = "cSpellSkKohorte", spellcontroltype = "eCAtype_t_buff", spelllogictype = "ca_ct_boost", sorting_rank = 5, }) mgr.addTokenBonus( {"et_summon_longsword", 97 }) -- 97 = bb_weapondamage_phy Sharp Blades equips the skeletons with a new sword and increases their physical damage. newBonus = { -- name = "bb_weapondamage_phy", rating = 0, basedonskill = "SKILL_INVALID", type = "BONUS_WEAPONDAMAGERANGE", spez = "DMG_PHYS", spez2 = "", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {0,0,0}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,25,275}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,27,294}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,28,330}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,30,370}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,33,430}, } mgr.createBonus(97, newBonus); The physical damage bonus maxes out at 43% in Niobium (I'm not that sure, but tests seem to confirm this) newBlueprint = { id = 1770, name = "spell_kohorte_sword_Barsteward", palettebits = "1111111111111111", dmgvariation = 170, minconstraints = {1,5,0}, lvljump = 1, usability = 0, allotment_pmfpi = {750,0,0,250,0}, uniquename = "", specialuseonly = 1, bonusgroup0 = {22,1000,1,5,1}, bonusgroup1 = {528,1000,1,5,0}, itemtypes = {10197,}, wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_KOHORTE',}, } The new sword has 2 interesting boni. newBonusgroup = { id = 22, name = "WB_swdl_deepwound", bonuslist = { 16,}, } mgr.createBonusgroup(22, newBonusgroup); newBonus = { -- name = "wb_swdl_deepwound", rating = 25, basedonskill = "skill_sword_lore", type = "BONUS_DEEPWOUND", spez = "", spez2 = "", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {25,5,0}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,30,100}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,35,120}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,40,140}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,45,170}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,50,200}, } mgr.createBonus(16, newBonus); The first is a chance to inflict deep wounds. Uh, the upgraded skeletons can do that, I wonder why no one ever noticed this. newBonusgroup = { id = 528, name = "SB_off_dam_any_rel", bonuslist = { 383,}, } mgr.createBonusgroup(528, newBonusgroup); newBonus = { -- name = "sb_off_dam_any_rel", rating = 35, basedonskill = "SKILL_INVALID", type = "BONUS_DAMAGE_ANY_REL", spez = "DMG_MAX", spez2 = "", usagebits = 65535, minconstraints = {1,5,0}, difficultyvaluerange0 = {0,70,200}, difficultyvaluerange1 = {1,90,280}, difficultyvaluerange2 = {2,110,350}, difficultyvaluerange3 = {3,140,420}, difficultyvaluerange4 = {4,175,500}, } mgr.createBonus(383, newBonus); The second is a bonus to all types of damage (just like +xx% damage yellow modifier). newItemType = { -- standard info renderfamily = "RENDERFAM_WEAPON", renderprio = 0, family = "FAMILY_WEAPON", subfamily = "SUBFAM_PRI_BarstewardSWORD", classification = "CLF_BarstewardSWORD", flags = "FLAG_NOSPAWN + FLAG_HASPREVIEWIMAGE", weargroup = "WEARGROUP_INVALID", -- 3d model + animation info model0Data = { name = "models/weapons/1h/l_Barstewardschwert1h-b1.GR2", surface0 = { mgr.surfGetID ("Barstewardschwert1h-b1-1_l"), mgr.surfGetID ("kohorte-weapons_d") }, user = "WEARGROUP_KOHORTE", }, -- logic bounding box logicBox = { minx=-6.126, miny=-17.225, minz=-1.114, maxx=6.126, maxy=14.626, maxz=1.114, }, dangerclass = 0, } mgr.typeCreate(10197, newItemType); This is the new sword item type. newBlueprint = { id = 2236, name = "spell_kohorte_sword_simple", palettebits = "1111111111111111", dmgvariation = 100, minconstraints = {1,1,0}, lvljump = 1, usability = 0, allotment_pmfpi = {1000,0,0,0,0}, uniquename = "", specialuseonly = 0, itemtypes = {10196,}, wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_KOHORTE',}, } mgr.createBlueprint(2236, newBlueprint); Out of curiosity this is the standard NA sword. As we can see, there are no fancy modifiers and the dmgvariation is 100 vs the upgraded 170 newItemType = { -- standard info renderfamily = "RENDERFAM_WEAPON", renderprio = 0, family = "FAMILY_WEAPON", subfamily = "SUBFAM_PRI_SWORD", classification = "CLF_SWORD", flags = "FLAG_NOSPAWN + FLAG_HASPREVIEWIMAGE", weargroup = "WEARGROUP_INVALID", -- 3d model + animation info model0Data = { name = "models/weapons/1h/l_simple1schwert1h-b1.GR2", surface0 = { mgr.surfGetID ("simple1schwert1h-b1-1_l"), mgr.surfGetID ("kohorte-weapons_d") }, user = "WEARGROUP_KOHORTE", }, -- logic bounding box logicBox = { minx=-1.748, miny=-10.591, minz=-1.088, maxx=1.748, maxy=10.591, maxz=1.088, }, dangerclass = 0, } mgr.typeCreate(10196, newItemType); Edited August 25, 2010 by Spaffo Link to comment
Spaffo 0 Posted August 25, 2010 Author Share Posted August 25, 2010 (edited) NA Shields The base shield is exactly the same as the Shadow Warrior starting shield (stats and looks) -> it sucks. Proof (red lines are what we're interested in) creatures.txt mgr.createCreature { id = 588, itemtype_id = 3250, name = "Spell_Kohorte_Soldier", behaviour = "Hireling_brave", dangerclass = 0, groupmaxcount = 4, elite_creature_id = 588, probabilityforelite = 0.000000, rank = 0, tenergy_creature_id = 588, template_creature_id = 1295, livesremaining = 0, unconscioustime = 5, palettebits = "1111111111111111", monstertype = 0, faction_id = 1, equipset_id = 136, modelscale = 1.000000, rise_from_ground = 0, has_corpse = 1, has_soul = 1, can_strafe = 0, } equipsets.txt mgr.createEquipset { id = 136, set = { { 403, EQUIPSLOT.AUTO, 0}, { 409, EQUIPSLOT.HELMET, 0}, { 408, EQUIPSLOT.CLOTH_CAPE, 0}, { 407, EQUIPSLOT.WEAPON_R, 1}, } } weaponpool.txt mgr.addWeaponPool { -- Start_SW_Shield dbid = 403, prefDmg = 1, prefDmgProb = 0, content = {1418,}, contentProb = {10,}, } blueprints.txt newBlueprint = { id = 1418, name = "hero_sw_start_shield", palettebits = "1111111111111111", dmgvariation = 0, minconstraints = {1,0,0}, lvljump = 1, usability = 0, allotment_pmfpi = {1000,0,0,0,0}, uniquename = "", specialuseonly = 0, itemtypes = {7391,}, wearergroups = {'WEARGROUP_DEFAULT',}, } mgr.createBlueprint(1418, newBlueprint); Edited August 25, 2010 by Spaffo Link to comment
wintermane 0 Posted August 25, 2010 Share Posted August 25, 2010 Most likely we never noticed because they never actualy coded it such that minions can actualy do deep wounds. Link to comment
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