SacredWiki NPC Template

[Schot 407]

Thanx to Silver Fox and Ysne we now have a newly inspired and revised NPC Template. Cheers ladies!

 

 

The purpose of the NPC Template is to

 

1. provide a structure for those creating NPC page to build on and enter data
   
2. to set a standard so that each and every NPC page maintains a certain symmetry to them
   
3. to ensure that the page layout fits nicely within the lowest common denominator screen resolution used by the general population; 1280x1024
   

 

This template has hopefully reached those three goals while also creating something that is attractive and efficiently disperses the information it contains.

 

 

There are more or less two choices left which I am going to leave up to whoever wants to add their thoughts to decide on. Both gogo and I couldn't decide and think it would be nice if the community could decide on these choices.

 

The first is in regards to the "?" above the heads of the NPC's in portrait images. We completely understand the utility of the "?" we also believe that if the "?" was not in the shot that the picture would be a much larger version of the NPC and maybe provide more impact on the page. Either way the NPC pics should either ALL have "?" or nothing. We want to set the standard on how the NPC looks on the page. Either way we're fine with whatever is chosen. If no one chooses gogo and I will toss a coin. ^^

 

The second matter is the edit button for the NPC Template. Presently you'll notice now when editing a page that there are now TWO NPC buttons. The first is the one that's been there forever. The second works a little differently. I was trying to think of a way to make it easier/faster to work with. So the second NPC button will put a bit of code on the page, then you can preview it, copy what's in the preview, paste it into the text field and start editing the test right away. I think with the old NPC button you had to save the page and then enter edit mode again before you could start working with the template. If someone could decide on what is easier to use and let me know that would be great!

 

Important aspects of the template that need to be followed; Images:

 

The images are chosen at a certain size so that they don't overwhelm the page and also so that the page layout will fit in a 1280x1024. The portrait size is 200 pixels in width and 550 pixels in height but width is flexible. Width could be 250px I'm sure.

 

 

Ok, I can't finish this now cause I'm kinda hurtin so I'll add more later. The important thing is that the portrait is 500px in height.

 

 

Let me know how it goes!

[Ysne58 236]

I vote to keep the question mark in.

 

I like the ability to edit before having to save the template to the page, so the second npc button would be easier for me to work with.

[Knuckles 904]

I'm kind of on the fence on this...At first I was against any kind of question or exclamation mark appearing in the pics. To me it somehow takes away from the pic and the immersive quality of it. But Silver brings up valid reasons to keep them in. So at this point I'm totally undecided. (I am partial to donuts if anyone wants to swing my vote one way or the other )

 

As far as the Template, since Ysne and Silver-fox will be doing the majority work it seems, I guess it's up to them to decide which way they like better.

 

I think I have waffled quite enough for one post lol (Brett Favre would be sooo proud of me)

[gogoblender 3,082]

The template is excellent

I'm for the punctuation above the NPC...it makes them look more... NPC'ish. Great work on this Schot, and thanks Silver, for getting this interest all agoin!

 

 

gogo

[Silver_fox 397]

As for the question/exclamaton mark, the reason I kept it was their COLOR. You may not read the information about the NPC, yet you'd immediately understand what kind of quest this NPC offers. It also may be useful for newbies who want to recognize NPCs. Character-specific quests are marked with the blue question mark on the map, yet 'in reality' they are coloured differently (it is the most noticeable with the Inquisitor's quests, since they are red). One more thing is that there are quite a few types of the NPCs' appearance in game. So without their respectible signs they are hard to distinct from the ordinary citizens.

That still is my opinion. Due to a limited amount of models in game, the NPCs faces are little help, when it comes to distincting them from the crowd. The Sacred NPC is much more defined by his/her place on the map and the quest type (aka the punctuation color).

 

Funny as it seems, without a punctuation you won't be able to distinct Informant Rohit, who offers Inquisitor's own quest from Aristocratic Spy who fights the Inquisition (his eyepatch is optional, you can see it on the Light path spy only).

 

Thank you for this template. I hope that 200 pixels in width x 504 pixels in height is OK too (That was the size of the last pic I uploaded).

 

If you are interested how this layout works, you can check these guys: Gemblik, Fellow Student, Captain and aforementioned Informant Rohit.

 

And this one is special: Orphas the Dragon. His portrait size is 400x444 since I wanted to fit at least half of him into this picture. (a little poor DM is the corner is suitable for size comparison, so I let him be).

Edited January 10, 2011 by Silver_fox

[Schot 407]

Very nice work with the Orphas page Silver. That was actually a concern of mine yesterday while thinking of this template. "How are we going to do Dragons?". What you've done is excellent and fits in a 1280 layout without distorting the page. With regards to the size of the pics you upload you don't need to be exact. The thumbnail function in the wiki can size it for you while maintaining scale. Sometimes it's best even to have the image be a little bigger than the size you plan to use it at in case someone else wants to use the same image for a different page.

 

 

I vote to keep the question mark in.

 

I like the ability to edit before having to save the template to the page, so the second npc button would be easier for me to work with.

 

I'm guessing that Silver will feel the same way about the question mark. Glad you like the second NPC button. I thought that might be the case. I'd like to set the button up so that is puts the whole template right in the text field for you though it's proving difficult.

 

I'm kind of on the fence on this...At first I was against any kind of question or exclamation mark appearing in the pics. To me it somehow takes away from the pic and the immersive quality of it. But Silver brings up valid reasons to keep them in. So at this point I'm totally undecided. (I am partial to donuts if anyone wants to swing my vote one way or the other )

 

As far as the Template, since Ysne and Silver-fox will be doing the majority work it seems, I guess it's up to them to decide which way they like better.

 

I think I have waffled quite enough for one post lol (Brett Favre would be sooo proud of me)

 

Did someone say waffles? Persoanlly I think I would go with no question mark so I could get more of the NPC in the pic but I'm not going to be counting my vote on this so I'm just gonna have waffles too. ^^

 

Speaking of the the portrait pic. What I meant to say in my first post was that the most important thing about it's size is the height. The height should be 550px. Not the width as I mistakenly said in my first post... The reason I chose 550 is because at that height the whole portrait pic is sure to be completely visible upon loading the page. Whereas on some pages the portrait goes down below the page so much so that you would need to scroll down the page in order to see it fully. Hence the whole reason for the height being restricted to 550px. As for the width as I mentioned we could deal with that on a page by page basis. I'd like "try" to use the same width on all the pages but if we run into trouble we can always change the width to suit. Of course I'll trust you all to make that decision if you need to. I chose 200px for the width but I don't see any reason why we couldn't use 250px like Silver has been doing.

 

*hours later*

 

Had to take a break and unfortunately that second NPC button isn't quite working. For the moment we'll have to continue with the original NPC button but I'll continue to try and get the button working better.

 

For those not aware, to use the NPC template you push the NPC button while in edit mode on the wiki. Then save the page. Then edit the page again to modify the template and add in your info about the NPC.

 

 

EDIT:

Excellent point about "?" and "!" colours Silver. I'll mention in the template that it should be in the pic. I think that's pretty much a wrap. Feel free to play and if there's anything else post it. I'll update this topic if I've made any changes to improve the function.

[Knuckles 904]

Hey I forgot to add in my post above a big thank you Schot

 

I know you're in quite a bit of pain and to take the time to help get this going and standardized is much appreciated. Just take it easy on yourself and get healed, the NPC button functionality can wait a few days

 

Again big thank you for all the help and nice looking template and pages Schot, Ysne and Silver

[Schot 407]

Cheers Knuckles! I gots me therapy on Wednesday and can't wait. Huuuuurry up Wednesday!

[Ysne58 236]

I'm sorry you are injured Schot.

 

The template is looking nice. I haven't used it yet. I've mostly been checking info and filling in. The first 2 high elf outposts are looking more complete now as I was able to fill in some information in both of them.

[Silver_fox 397]

Tried the new template with my next attempt on a enemy-NPC mix. The result is here: Geodric. His bestiary place is reserved too.

 

I don't know how exactly you planned that template to work, yet 'press the second NPC button-press the preview button-copy and paste the template text you see on your screen-fill the template' was the scheme that worked for me. I can't call it uncomfortable. After all Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V is much faster than waiting for the page to save and then opening the edit tab again.

 

The only thing I maybe wanted to add to template is that generic 'See exact location below:' phrase. Both you and me add it to the pages after all. Yet maybe this thing is just a habit of mine that doesn't need to be in the template. It's up to you to decide.

 

EDIT

By the way, why the enemy template isn't in the menu?

/EDIT

Edited January 10, 2011 by Silver_fox

[Schot 407]

Thanx Ysne! Those Outposts are looking fantastic.

 

 

Tried the new template with my next attempt on a enemy-NPC mix. The result is here: Geodric. His bestiary place is reserved too.

 

I don't know how exactly you planned that template to work, yet 'press the second NPC button-press the preview button-copy and paste the template text you see on your screen-fill the template' was the scheme that worked for me. I can't call it uncomfortable. After all Ctrl+C and Ctrl+V is much faster than waiting for the page to save and then opening the edit tab again.

 

The only thing I maybe wanted to add to template is that generic 'See exact location below:' phrase. Both you and me add it to the pages after all. Yet maybe this thing is just a habit of mine that doesn't need to be in the template. It's up to you to decide.

 

EDIT

By the way, why the enemy template isn't in the menu?

/EDIT

 

Geodric looks great. I really like how well the two templates combine. You positioned them perfectly in my humble opinion.

 

The scheme you use is what I think a lot of us are doing as well. In the past when I made plans to sit down and work on the wiki for a while I would somtimes copy the template to a notepad for easy copy/paste. Only needed to use the template button once that way. I had hoped that I would make the button insert the whole template text into the editing text field but alas I didn't get it going today. No doubt I'll make another attempt though. ^^

 

Regarding "See exact location below:"... Wow, I completely forgot and yes I agree I find it complimentary to the images that sit below it. I'll add it in. (Done!)

 

As for the enemy template I think it was just a matter of popularity. At the time of it's creation it wasn't really in use much I think. Didn't seem necessary. Beyond that a lack of time on my part and lack of demand. I'll see about adding it this month.

[Silver_fox 397]

Well, looks like today I'm going to adjust my old NPC pages to a new template.

 

...and some of them are an exception from the template. These two: Landlord, Guest lack their punctuation. Because they are actually a quest enemies rather then NPCs. Yet Zeno, while making a page for The Sleepy Badger, stated them as an NPCs so initially I made them NPC pages. I modified them into the enemy-NPC mixes, yet I can't get them a portraits with punctuation, since they never appear with '?!' in game. Well, I'm going to just let them be. After all the kind of a page they have now is more informative than a simple enemy page.

 

Speaking of the templates, I continue experimenting with quest pages. I'm not yet about to suggest a whole new template for them, yet I happen to like this kind of a header more than an old one:

 

{|

|WIDTH="10%" VALIGN="TOP"|__TOC__

|WIDTH="35%" VALIGN="TOP"|

* '''Quest Objective:'''

* '''Quest Difficulty:'''

* '''Quest Giver:''' [[sacred 2:Quest Giver|Quest Giver]]

* '''Location(s):''' [[sacred 2:Quest Location|Quest Location]]

* '''Prerequisite Quest:'''

* '''Next Quest:'''

* '''Reward:'''

|WIDTH="55%" VALIGN="TOP"| {{S2frame|[[image:the 'M' map|300px]][[image:the 'Tab' map|300px]]|left}}

|}

Not a really different one. I just altered the percentage and stated a double-map instead of a random picture. Looks like this: All or Nothing.

That's just a suggestion though. After all, from what I saw this far, all the quest pages look differently, especially the old ones. So they should be modified somehow. Whether or not we'd adjust them to a current template or to a new one isn't really important (the amount of work would be the same).

Edited January 10, 2011 by Silver_fox

[Ysne58 236]

I think quest templates needs a separate thread.

[Silver_fox 397]

Maybe they do. But it's up to Schot and gogo to decide whether or not they want to alter the quest template at all, and whether or not to start a thread for it. After all, we discussed the NPC template in other topics until it was created too.

[Ysne58 236]

Maybe they do. But it's up to Schot and gogo to decide whether or not they want to alter the quest template at all, and whether or not to start a thread for it. After all, we discussed the NPC template in other topics until it was created too.

 

 

That is why I haven't gone ahead and created a separate thread already.

[Schot 407]

I'll probably split this off in a bit but for now I'd like to jump in on the Landlord and Guest in the Conspiracies quest. Those two should only be Quest Enemies. Great opportunity to create the rule of thumb though. I guess it's safe to say that if a character in question does not have a name then it is not an NPC and should not be classified as one. I'll add that to the template and the top of this topic. Cheers for catching that Silver.

 

In the strictest sense of the definition of NPC ALL creatures in the game are NPC. Basically any friend or foe that has an active role in the game is an NPC. NPC meaning Non Playable Character. So in that sense Zeno was correct but did not mean to imply that those enemies should be categorized as NPC's. Many gamers, and particularly SacredWiki, uses NPC to more or less define allies and by allies we mean game characters that are in some way helpful be it by giving quests or simply offering information. NPC's that have a dialogue box with their name when spoken to are a basic example.

 

So for now we're only documenting NPC's as those who at some point have either the ? or ! symbols above their heads.

 

P.s.

I'll post my thoughts about your interest in the Quest template in a bit. Gotta pace myself. ^^

[Ysne58 236]

What should I do if I find a quest that isn't clearly associated with any one specific place and there won't show up on one of the places pages?

[Ysne58 236]

We'll probably run into this situation several times while doing the quests. The easiest and probably best way to differentiate between similarly named NPC's/Enemies is to include the quest associated with them in the first part of the code. For example the Soldier in the Unexpected News quest goes from:

 

[[sacred 2:Soldier|Soldier]]

 

to

 

[[sacred 2:Soldier - Unexpected News|Soldier]]

How would that look on the template? I'm good at writing and editing but visualizing not so good.

[Knuckles 904]

I saw 2 references to the Soldier on that page and changed both of them to the new code. I haven't played with the new NPC template itself yet though.

[Knuckles 904]

What should I do if I find a quest that isn't clearly associated with any one specific place and there won't show up on one of the places pages?

 

I was wondering about what to do with these. My first thought is that they do not go on any places page, unless it is just outside of that particular area. I would just include directions to the quest on the quest page itself. But I think that is a question that gogo or Schot need to have final say on.

[Ysne58 236]

I saw 2 references to the Soldier on that page and changed both of them to the new code. I haven't played with the new NPC template itself yet though.

 

Ok Thanks Knuckles, now that I know what the link should look like, I went ahead and changed it on the other parts of that page and on the High Elf Outpost 1 page. Those are all red links now, until the page gets created.

[Ysne58 236]

What should I do if I find a quest that isn't clearly associated with any one specific place and there won't show up on one of the places pages?

 

I was wondering about what to do with these. My first thought is that they do not go on any places page, unless it is just outside of that particular area. I would just include directions to the quest on the quest page itself. But I think that is a question that gogo or Schot need to have final say on.

 

Wouldn't you know, I ran into and example right after I posted the question.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:The_Hunter_Camp

 

According the quest descriptions, the last NPC is located in Sloeford. I suspect that he only show up if you are doing this quest though. I haven't actually done the quest yet. I was checking it first to make sure it was on the wiki after finding it in game.

[Silver_fox 397]

I'll probably split this off in a bit but for now I'd like to jump in on the Landlord and Guest in the Conspiracies quest. Those two should only be Quest Enemies. Great opportunity to create the rule of thumb though. I guess it's safe to say that if a character in question does not have a name then it is not an NPC and should not be classified as one. I'll add that to the template and the top of this topic. Cheers for catching that Silver.

 

In the strictest sense of the definition of NPC ALL creatures in the game are NPC. Basically any friend or foe that has an active role in the game is an NPC. NPC meaning Non Playable Character. So in that sense Zeno was correct but did not mean to imply that those enemies should be categorized as NPC's. Many gamers, and particularly SacredWiki, uses NPC to more or less define allies and by allies we mean game characters that are in some way helpful be it by giving quests or simply offering information. NPC's that have a dialogue box with their name when spoken to are a basic example.

 

So for now we're only documenting NPC's as those who at some point have either the ? or ! symbols above their heads.

 

P.s.

I'll post my thoughts about your interest in the Quest template in a bit. Gotta pace myself. ^^

 

Well, when I was asked to do NPC pages for them, I'd been surprised too. Yet I was only starting to write wiki articles back then, so I thought that somebody that unexperienced was not the one to complain. I asked you because I was thinking that considering them NPCs wasn't right.

 

As for the soldiers and others... If you press 'Alt', you'd see the names of all the creatures around you. If you press this button in that soldier camp, you won't see any tags on all the soldiers. That particular soldier is an exception. You can read 'Soldier' on his tag. So he is not an unnamed soldier, but a creature named 'Soldier'.

 

Yet I wanted to suggest another definition for Sacred NPCs that should be described: If this creature offers you a dialog that you can read in a special window, than it is an NPC. Otherwise it is an enemy or a civilian. How about that?

[Silver_fox 397]

And by the way, there are several NPCs with the same name 'High Elf Soldier' in game. Yet they ARE NPCs since they talk to you and offer you several quests (check Hunting Highwaymen for example).

[Ysne58 236]

And by the way, there are several NPCs with the same name 'High Elf Soldier' in game. Yet they ARE NPCs since they talk to you and offer you several quests (check Hunting Highwaymen for example).

 

The Elven Guard in the Kobold Canyon quest is another example.