Places pages

[Ysne58 236]

We have been discussing some aspects of places pages as part of the NPC and Quest template discussion.

 

I thought it would be a good idea to have a separate thread for the places pages too.

 

Currently Silver and I are discussing the best way to organize the quest and npc section. This isn't so important on pages with only one or two NPCs, but the ones with a lot of them, this will make a difference.

 

My current proposal, after reading Silver's is this:

 

If there are Main Quest NPCs or stages there would be a bold heading MAIN QUEST.

 

The MQs would then be listed in alphabetical order.

 

Then SIDE QUESTS that start (that are available for everyone and the light and shadow quests.

 

If more than one, then in alpha order.

 

Then OTHER for character specific, quest stages, etc.

 

If more than one, then in alpha order.

Edited January 13, 2011 by Ysne58

[gogoblender 3,078]

hey Ysne

 

Is there something you wanted to bring up for the places pages that you would like to institute as a change?

 

 

gogo

 

 

[Ysne58 236]

I just edited my post to include the discussion Silver and I have been having.

[gogoblender 3,078]

are you talknig about adding this kind of a setup regarding NPC's in a kind of order to to places pages in the method you describe?

 

Can you give me an example or mockup of a before places page to what it would look like as an after page with your suggested changes?

 

:

 

gogo

[Ysne58 236]

Sloeford is a good one so I will set that up as an example. We can always revert if it doesn't work. Give me a few minutes.

[gogoblender 3,078]

Waht you can do is put the mockup in your own page, this way we get a "dress rehearseal" of what the page will look like.

 

 

gogo

[Ysne58 236]

Ok, it's done, sis needs computer for a few. Let me know what you think.

[gogoblender 3,078]

Hi, can you give me a link to your after page?

 

 

gogo

[Ysne58 236]

Hi, can you give me a link to your after page?

 

 

gogo

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Sloeford#Quests_.26_NPC.27s

[Silver_fox 397]

Just to clarify things. Here we were talking about adding NPCs to the places pages. Ysne told that she always lists NPCs in alphabetical order, and I answered that they'd better be listed in an order of their importance. I also wanted to tell that even the side-quest NPCs may be listed in an importance order: Quest giver should be listed before the NPC that is just involved in the quest. Also in my opinion it is better to list NPCs that take part in the same quest together. It seems more meaningful to me. I think that the alphabetical order can be used only when no meaningful order can be created.

[Ysne58 236]

My personal opinion is that alphabetical order looks better. Assigning order of importance is a bit difficult beyond what I did as a sample on the Sloeford page.

[Ysne58 236]

I just found the quest giver for Days Gone By in the winery between Twainbrook and Sloeford.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Days_Gone_By

 

This winery does not have a name in game and does not have a places page. I'm wondering if it should.

 

There are at least two other quests that involve this location:

 

A Worthwhile Journey ends at this location:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:A_Worthwhile_Journey

 

Unexpected News sends you there on the second stage of that quest:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Unexpected_News

[Silver_fox 397]

The closest place to this winery is High Elf Outpost 2 which is east of the winery. Maybe these NPCs should go there together with The Last Drop quest giver.

[gogoblender 3,078]

Hey guys

 

We just had a looking at the pages. We really like this new grouping is adding to the places page...great way of showing off all the shiny new NPC pages ^^

 

Just a few changes from what has been done in Sloeford and this can be thought of as guide:

 

This here

 

MAIN QUEST

 

should be changed to Campaign, and, as well, capitalizing all the letters is unnecessary, capitalizing first letter of each word is perfect. In fact a good rule is we never use all caps on the wiki.

 

Regarding the alphabetical verus importance, we are both liking the way importance strings out the info on the page.

 

 

So we guess setup would go like:

 

 

Campaign

 

Side Quests

 

Chain Quests

 

Other

 

 

 

 

Btw what is Other? How is "Other" being defined to discern it from, let's say, Side Quests?

 

this here entry here :

 

Lienna: Involved in Children and Demons quest.

 

 

made us ask this question. Why would she not be in the other category?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

gogo

 

 

 

 

p..s and... actually how do you guys feel about this being tabled instead?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Silver_fox 397]

I have a question to you, gogo: Where all the character specific quests should go? I know that the blue chain is a chain too, but it is important only to one character, and therefore not all the players would be equally interested in it. I'm not sure that placing parts of a blue chain together with other chain quests is a good idea.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Silver_fox

[Ysne58 236]

Lets have the order go like this:

 

Campaign Quests

Chain Quests

Side Quests

Class Quests

Other

 

Other would be anyone that doesn't fit under the first four. The Inquisition Guard at Dragonmaw Pass comes to mind. She lets Shadow Campaign through the gate and denies passage to Light path, but isn't really part of the quest. At least I don't think she is.

 

I would also propose listing the quest name and then the NPCS under it.

 

For example, in Sloeford the Children and Demons would go under Class Quests as follows

 

Children and Demons

Quest giver: Farmer Koremar

Involved in: Lienna

 

(with an indent or space for the npcs under the quest, I can't get that to happen in this post for some odd reason.)

 

I meant to group those two together by the way. Under this scheme there would very rarely be anyone listed under other. We could always leave that category out and put what might go there in the notes section.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Ysne58

[Ysne58 236]

I am going to go ahead and re-organize Sloeford as an example so you can get a better idea of what I mean.

 

Also, the only class quest NPC's listed are for the Seraphim quest. None of the others are listed there yet. I will add those too, at least the ones I know about.

[Ysne58 236]

Ok -- I finished it up. That section is starting to look really huge with the spacing I have in it.

 

A table might work better, but I'm not real sure how tables work.

 

I have not added in the other class quests yet. That doesn't look as nice as I had in mind.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Sloeford#Quests_.26_NPC.27s

 

I think that <br> coding would probably come in handy here to tighten the spacing up a bit.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Ysne58

[gogoblender 3,078]

Ok -- I finished it up. That section is starting to look really huge with the spacing I have in it.

 

A table might work better, but I'm not real sure how tables work.

 

I have not added in the other class quests yet. That doesn't look as nice as I had in mind.

 

http://www.sacredwik...sts_.26_NPC.27s

 

I think that <br> coding would probably come in handy here to tighten the spacing up a bit.

 

owch, yer right

Way too much space ^^ Better the way it was before.

 

 

gogo

[Ysne58 236]

I'm gonna try something with that <br> coding before I give up. We will see if that looks any different.

 

Ok, does this look any better?

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Sloeford#Quests_.26_NPC.27s

Edited January 14, 2011 by Ysne58

[gogoblender 3,078]

We're getting there! I added an edit for the caps and brad just added an indent for some formatting.

 

You like?

 

 

gogo

[Ysne58 236]

We're getting there! I added an edit for the caps and brad just added an indent for some formatting.

 

You like?

 

 

gogo

Yes Yes Yes

 

That is almost exactly what I was visualizing.

 

I think that actually takes up less space than the original content too.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Ysne58

[Ysne58 236]

I'm headed for bed. I'm anxious to see what Silver thinks as well.

[gogoblender 3,078]

There's a mistake here with the meaning though:

 

Zeno wrote here:

 

• Farmer Walcott: Quest giver for Books, Cows and Virgins quest.
• Festering Zombie: Killed monster in Books, Cows and Virgins quest.

 

Which you re wrote as

 

Books, Cows and Virgins - Quest giver: Farmer Walcott - Involved in: Festering Zombie

 

The sense is getting off there.

 

This is looking more difficult than we thought becuase the meanings of each line originally set down by Zeno are pretty important and it's easy to get them distorted with just a few words moved around.

 

How bout we just keep the old way of listing quests the way Zeno has set it up until we have completed a few more of the other projects first, and we can all return to this and really focus on places later. Places as it is is great and has clarity. To elevate it to another level of organization at this time is really going to tax our time.

We're reverting the page back to original, this is an awesome idea, but the time for it now is competing with a ton of other projects everyone is rushing through.

We will return!

 

 

gogo

[Silver_fox 397]

I saw that you reverted the page. Maybe it's right for now, since the Places section looks way better than some others do. Establishing a new quest template takes a lot of time and is a more urgent task since all the quests look differently now. It makes the Quest section quite a mess.

 

And one more thing here. After all, Knuckles is the one in charge for the Places section. I think we should wait for him to return and take part in our discussion before making changes to the Place template. We have a lot of ther things to do now. Expanding the NPC section keeps me quite busy, experimenting with templates seems to eat Schot's time, and there is always a lot of pages to proof-read...

 

Other would be anyone that doesn't fit under the first four. The Inquisition Guard at Dragonmaw Pass comes to mind. She lets Shadow Campaign through the gate and denies passage to Light path, but isn't really part of the quest. At least I don't think she is.

I just wanted to say that this one is going to be tricky. Because CM-patch actually made this Inquisition Guard a part of the quest (to be precise, it added a quest chain for all the charas who were just talking to you before CM).

 

One more thing: No matter, how Zeno did it before, quest enemies shouldn't be in the NPC list, OK? Or if he/she/it talks to you and should be upgraded to the enemy-NPC mix, it shouldn't be called an enemy or a killed monster. We've already discussed this problem. Zeno listed all the named characters as NPC, even the ones that are considered just quest enemies now. So it should be changed.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Silver_fox