Bargaining Mastery...

[Scrappy McSlap 6]

Would anybody be able to shed some light on what exactly "better quest rewards" entails? Please excuse me if this question has been answered, I'm accessing the site via my phone and it's a pain in the arse to dig through pages of search results. :-)

[lujate 578]

This article is based on Ice and Blood, so YMMV, but it says that Bargaining Mastery can improve rewards by 1-2 tiers.

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Item_quality_levels_vs_Enhanced_Perception/Magic_Find/Bargaining%2C

[Mystix123 60]

This article is based on Ice and Blood, so YMMV, but it says that Bargaining Mastery can improve rewards by 1-2 tiers.

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Item_quality_levels_vs_Enhanced_Perception/Magic_Find/Bargaining%2C

Correction: It was from before Ice and Blood, so it applies to the Console version still.

Otherwise to that, what Lujate said is correct: It improves the quality of the given rewards.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Mystix123

[Scrappy McSlap 6]

So... If I'm reading that right, Bargaining becomes increasingly worse as you level up...?! Isn't that counter intuitive to how most skills should work? You would need to invest hundreds of points in order for it to stay useful!

[lujate 578]

Sorry...my bad.

[Mystix123 60]

So... If I'm reading that right, Bargaining becomes increasingly worse as you level up...?! Isn't that counter intuitive to how most skills should work? You would need to invest hundreds of points in order for it to stay useful!

To some degree, yes. It is slightly abnormal, but it reflects that equipment is getting progressively better as you level up, therefore you should need a higher Bargaining skill to maintain the same Tier of equipment. If Bargaining functioned like a normal skill, then finding Tier 12 equipment would be a joke, taking away from some of the fun in game.

The hundreds of points for Tier 12 should be attainable (with a Bargaining Suit) until level 140. Tier 12 at level 140 is possible, but will require a lot of luck while shopping. Remember that Antitrust was able to reach Bargaining Skill Level 1294 at 200, and the console versions get the benefit of 3 additional Relics over the PC version.

As for the Tier differences: Yes, we can only hit Tier 10 at level 200, but it's a 6% quality difference between Tier 12 and Tier 10. That isn't going to heavily affect things like "All Skills+". It'll give you a small difference in things like HP+ (compared to a Tier 12 with an equal base amount), which shouldn't be enough to hinder a character.

 

 

Sorry...my bad.

It happens. It wasn't a huge issue, I just thought it would be good to clarify that.

The link was still a good one (same one I use often) and you accurately described the bonus.

[snacksmoto 0]

This article is based on Ice and Blood, so YMMV, but it says that Bargaining Mastery can improve rewards by 1-2 tiers.

http://www.sacredwik...d/Bargaining%2C

 

I have Antitrust's original post bookmarked. I've added into the wiki Llama8's explanation post link that was missing in the Skills/MF section.

 

Enjoy.

[essjayehm 58]

As for the Tier differences: Yes, we can only hit Tier 10 at level 200, but it's a 6% quality difference between Tier 12 and Tier 10. That isn't going to heavily affect things like "All Skills+". It'll give you a small difference in things like HP+ (compared to a Tier 12 with an equal base amount), which shouldn't be enough to hinder a character.

Also, certian modifiers do not appear until you have hit a certian tier. I always looked for "Regen penalty from buffs -X%" as an indicator that I was in the "top" tier. Not entirely sure which mods appear in which tiers, though.

 

IIRC, consoles can find All Skills +28 or +30 at char. level 200. Of course, these are the "double-mod" jewellery and are extremely rare. Still, I would theorize that console Bargaining at char. level 200 could be >2500... enough to still hit the top tiers.

[Mystix123 60]

Also, certian modifiers do not appear until you have hit a certian tier. I always looked for "Regen penalty from buffs -X%" as an indicator that I was in the "top" tier. Not entirely sure which mods appear in which tiers, though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that mods like those just have a "2 star item" (Yellow on PC) requirement, which is Tier 9 and above.

This dawned upon me when I realized that I don't have any All Skills+ jewelry which isn't a 2 star item.

 

Tier 10 is easily attainable at level 200, so all modifiers will be accessible, just not at the same strength that they would be at Tier 12.

 

IIRC, consoles can find All Skills +28 or +30 at char. level 200. Of course, these are the "double-mod" jewellery and are extremely rare. Still, I would theorize that console Bargaining at char. level 200 could be >2500... enough to still hit the top tiers.

I was doing the math the other day and it's amazing that Antitrust even got to 1294.

 

Let's take the unrealistic example of a Seraphim, using all +30 All Skills and +30 Relics (it should probably be lower).

24 Gold Slots (6 from Dual O.Sabers, 18 from 2 Gold slots for each of the 9 pieces of equipment) + 2 Rings + 1 Amulet + 6 Relics + Maxed Hard Points

= 828 + 60 + 30 + 180 + 200

= 1298 (4 points higher than Antitrust's build...)

If each of those armors had +30 Bargaining / General Skills / All Skills already on it, then: 1298 + 270 = 1568.

 

Now we have something for our dreams...but it still doesn't reach Tier 11 unfortunately (as Tier 11 for level 190 requires a Bargaining Skill Level of 2397).

[essjayehm 58]

Also, certian modifiers do not appear until you have hit a certian tier. I always looked for "Regen penalty from buffs -X%" as an indicator that I was in the "top" tier. Not entirely sure which mods appear in which tiers, though.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I was always under the impression that mods like those just have a "2 star item" (Yellow on PC) requirement, which is Tier 9 and above.

This dawned upon me when I realized that I don't have any All Skills+ jewelry which isn't a 2 star item.

 

I don't know for sure. Just what I saw when I was shopping.

 

Tier 10 is easily attainable at level 200, so all modifiers will be accessible, just not at the same strength that they would be at Tier 12.

 

IIRC, consoles can find All Skills +28 or +30 at char. level 200. Of course, these are the "double-mod" jewellery and are extremely rare. Still, I would theorize that console Bargaining at char. level 200 could be >2500... enough to still hit the top tiers.

I was doing the math the other day and it's amazing that Antitrust even got to 1294.

 

Let's take the unrealistic example of a Seraphim, using all +30 All Skills and +30 Relics (it should probably be lower).

24 Gold Slots (6 from Dual O.Sabers, 18 from 2 Gold slots for each of the 9 pieces of equipment) + 2 Rings + 1 Amulet + 6 Relics + Maxed Hard Points

= 828 + 60 + 30 + 180 + 200

= 1298 (4 points higher than Antitrust's build...)

If each of those armors had +30 Bargaining / General Skills / All Skills already on it, then: 1298 + 270 = 1568.

 

Now we have something for our dreams...but it still doesn't reach Tier 11 unfortunately (as Tier 11 for level 190 requires a Bargaining Skill Level of 2397).

Oops. I slipped in an extra figure somewhere.... teaches me to do math in my head

[Dragon Brother 619]

So... If I'm reading that right, Bargaining becomes increasingly worse as you level up...?! Isn't that counter intuitive to how most skills should work? You would need to invest hundreds of points in order for it to stay useful!

To some degree, yes. It is slightly abnormal, but it reflects that equipment is getting progressively better as you level up, therefore you should need a higher Bargaining skill to maintain the same Tier of equipment. If Bargaining functioned like a normal skill, then finding Tier 12 equipment would be a joke, taking away from some of the fun in game.

The hundreds of points for Tier 12 should be attainable (with a Bargaining Suit) until level 140. Tier 12 at level 140 is possible, but will require a lot of luck while shopping. Remember that Antitrust was able to reach Bargaining Skill Level 1294 at 200, and the console versions get the benefit of 3 additional Relics over the PC version.

As for the Tier differences: Yes, we can only hit Tier 10 at level 200, but it's a 6% quality difference between Tier 12 and Tier 10. That isn't going to heavily affect things like "All Skills+". It'll give you a small difference in things like HP+ (compared to a Tier 12 with an equal base amount), which shouldn't be enough to hinder a character.

 

 

Sorry...my bad.

It happens. It wasn't a huge issue, I just thought it would be good to clarify that.

The link was still a good one (same one I use often) and you accurately described the bonus.

 

Actually, the tier differences will have some effect on what you can/cannot buy. Lightsabers for example will be unshoppable eventually, +all combat arts I think someone mentioned once and any other tier 11/12 only mod/items.

[Mystix123 60]

Actually, the tier differences will have some effect on what you can/cannot buy. Lightsabers for example will be unshoppable eventually, +all combat arts I think someone mentioned once and any other tier 11/12 only mod/items.

Has anyone figured out what mods are Tier 11/12 only? That would be a handy list to have.

[Dragon Brother 619]

I don't think so. Its doable, although it would require a lot of shopping with bargaining only high enough to unlock tier 10 and then raise it and see what else you can get.

[Mystix123 60]

Just did it actually. (lol)

I have a level 60 (Seraphim) Bargainer with 42 hard points in Bargaining. With a Bargaining suit, her Bargaining skill is 258.

I looked at over 500 pieces of jewelry (as well as some armor/weapons) at each Tier. I had to look at over 1000 pieces of jewelry for the Tier 10 results, simply because it was harder to find quality items.

 

Results below:

Modifier				Starting Tier
--------				-------------
Regeneration Time: {Aspect}		12

All Combat Arts				11

All Skills				10
Deathblow				10
Aspect: {Aspect Name}			10
Block Chance				10		Both "Block Chance" (General) and "Block Chance: {Type}"
Life Leech +X				10		Flat rate version
Leech life +X%				10		On Weapons Only, Percentage Version
Chance to Reflect: Close Combat		10		On Shields Only

 

Essjayehm and Dragon Brother are correct for their specific examples. Aspect Regen Time- appears only in Tier 12 and All CA+ is available only in Tiers 11 and 12.

All other mods (that I've looked for or randomly noted) are available in Tier 10.

 

For the sake of CA related jewelry, might be worthwhile to keep a Bargaining character at level 130ish.

 

Edits: Turned my incoherent ramblings into proper sentences.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Mystix123

[Dragon Brother 619]

Nice work. Any chance you could add it into the wiki, it would be great for that info to be easily findable.<br><br>Edit: Perhaps as its own page under the see also section on Bargaining?<br>

[Mystix123 60]

Nice work. Any chance you could add it into the wiki, it would be great for that info to be easily findable.

 

Edit: Perhaps as its own page under the see also section on Bargaining?

Much thanks.

 

I was debating between the Bargaining page or the Bargaining Tips page.

Perhaps a separate page would be best, and I can provide a link on both pages to it.

 

Whoever created those "s2wiki" tags is a genius by the way.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Mystix123

[Mystix123 60]

Created and linked to a few relevant pages.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Nice work I changed your link to the SIF to a link to the same guide on the wiki, but otherwise it looks good

[Scrappy McSlap 6]

Man I love the community here! :-)