Discovery regarding Nether Allegiance Mechanics

[rlpowell 0]

Supressor and I seem to have some fairly serious disagreements about how http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...ther_Allegiance works, in terms of relevant skills.

 

The discussion tab seems the right place to discuss this, but when I click on it, the system tells me I don't have permission to create new pages.

 

Help?

 

-Robin

[gogoblender 3,071]

Hi rlpowell, and welcome to the forum

I've actually been following your edits to the wiki for a while now, and I must say you've made some significant contributions, the weapons page ^^ So first off a big thank you.

 

Regarding talk pages on the wiki, they have not been enabled. Instead, we have a wiki section here on this forum where anyone doing work can open up a topic and discuss any thing that they may have questions about or wish follow up with others. We use this forum here, because unlike a lot of other wiki's we actually have a fairly large and busy community in place. Having one talk area focuses all discussion into one area where most of us can follow and get back to easily instead of splitting up attention into many areas such as SIF, here, wiki talk, etc.

 

Would you be able to put up here what you've found to be your disagreement with nether allegiance? This way we can get people who aren't working on the wiki as well as wiki contributors all looking at the topic.

 

Cheers

 

 

gogo

 

p.s. I have transformed the title of this topic into your main question about your disagreement, and have added second line to your title re: discussion pages on the wiki. Hopefully this will bring others' attention to this topic.

 

p.s.s. Okay I've just seen your notes on your findings . Tested facts ALWAYS hold out v.s. anothers

untested claims. If your data corroborates your findings, you can state your findings in your edit notes as you have done...and as well... you can add the link into your edit notes to this topic here relating to the discussion on what is being discussed. If tested data supports an edit, that edit then remains on the wiki.

[Schot 407]

Hey there Robin. I just tested Nether Allegiance. Combat Discipline had absolutely no affect on it. Just one problem with my test though... I didn't test Nether Allegiance with modifications. If there is a modification that could be affected by Combat Alert I would guess it is one of the secondary mods; Sharp Blades - Spectral Shield - Elite Equipment. Maybe the cause of your disagreement.

[rlpowell 0]

The actual point of disagreement was Tactics Lore. One of Supressor's recent mods claimed that it had an effect; I've no idea why.

 

If Tactics Lore (or anything else!) can be shown to affect the damage of the minions, that would be great, but I've no idea how one would test that.

 

-Robin

[Schot 407]

Awh crap. It was Tactics? lol. Ok, I'll check it out. The way I plan to test is to observe the summoned skeletons. I'll follow them around while they kill wolves near Sloeford, document their highest consistent damage then I'll choose Tactics, increase it a bit and again observe max possible damage from skeletons vs Sloeford wolves. Keeping my character and CA level the same during the entire test and wearing no equipment. May take me a while before I do it though.

 

P.s.

I've tested it with all attributes and any skills that could improve damage or Resistance Bonus. Findings are on the wiki page.

[Zinsho 0]

Schot, if possible I would suggest testing it with a high level toon. Like that you can have say... level 200 SW with level 50ish buff, should give you a fairly good basic set of values. Then you take Tactics Lore and increase it to 75+ (A very noticeable increase in damage as opposed to 3-4 points). If it has any effect it should show up easily enough.

[Schot 407]

lol, Stop reading my mind Zin. ^^

 

I did actually do exactly as you suggest above, with the exception of bringing the buff up much higher. The buff I kept at level 1. As I was testing it I started to think I should increase the buff level but then I was getting tired. The numbers were fairly easy to work with though. The average damage the minions were doing was 4273 and the range was about 2000-5000.

 

One thing that disturbed was that during the testing the max possible damage went down. It was while I was testing Nether against Ancient Magic and Intelligence that I saw the max go down. I just couldn't get the most recent max to occur again... I'm sure it's just a fluke but still it does seem a bit strange.

[Suppressor 0]

Hey guys, I have taken a break from the forums, thank you for the PM (seriously). My overloaded courseload as well as Spring Break abroad trip have taken my complete attention. I will try to give you guys basis on what I have found in regards to this rather quisitive combat art. Most of my findings have been from trainer usage. It's very easy to discover game mechanics. However it is not useful to find exact numbers/percentages. Let me review things and all the posts/discussions before I give a clear report. That way you guys don't think I am ignoring you or going AWOL. I actually just started a shadow warrior that is only devoted to the Astral Lord aspect. This should be interesting it is based on both buffs and skeletal tower basically. Intelligence as the attribute. More to come.

[Schot 407]

Thanx Suppressor for your response. Nice to see you back in action and giving your attention to this dilemma. Looking forward to your findings on this one.

 

P.s.

Keep in mind that info taken from trainer augmented characters are at risk of being flawed...

[FrostElfGuard 9]

From my translation of the Astral Lord build (on Clan-DA):

 

question from Daniel35102 on 23-Feb-2009:

How to boost damage of all the parts?

 

response from Jinzo-1995 on 25-Feb-2009:

Skellie Fortress: Intelligence, Ancient Magic, Tactics Lore.

Rallied Souls (Ghost): Tactics Lore and Astral Lord Lore.

Nether Allegience: combat art levels in Nether Allegiance ONLY.

 

That's what the Germans are saying. Hope this helps.

Edited March 19, 2009 by FrostElfGuard

[Suppressor 0]

I kinda noticed something fishy with using a trainer to test various skills. At one point (I don't remember specifically), but it was like that tactics lore was not affecting my weapon damage. Thanks for the heads up.

 

Currently, I have a 60ish shadow warrior. He's kinda spread out, but doing very very well oddly. All three focuses, blacksmithing (one of the worst skills in the game I found), E.P. Tactics, Armor, Toughness (2nd worst skill in the game:)). My skeletons are doing now a (EDIT) 30-50% of my damage a piece (massive boost to overall damage output). Being that my attack speed is relatively low, this is a very decent damage boost and damage mitigation strategy. Then at 75 I get reflection too... Anyhow, I haven't really seen anything with tactics lore affecting skeletons, I just underestimated how levels of the skeletons really affect the damage in very fair ways (compared to other games... I won't mention any famous titles...) Nice to see Ascaron seemed to have done this aspect well.

 

I definitely want to start a discussion on toughness, I am not seeing it's viability at all. That and blacksmithing, which seems to have to be at very high (75% of char level approx) to be along the same buffs as you can get from an NPC (albeit more expensive). If you are paying for damage, I want more damage, damn it! Haha, oh well, back to studying. I need to post more often. I also need to change my pic, I would rather not be a Seraphim anymore.

Edited April 9, 2009 by Suppressor