Best mods for Skin, Tempest and invigoration

[ka243 3]

I am having a very difficult time choosing the mods for my pyromancer elf but this discussion would also apply to an ice elf for the grand invigoration question or a Magic coup elf that wants to use inc skin as a second buff + meteor swarm to kill bosses. A lot of the mods propose to choose between more survivability or lower regen /// OR//// More damage or lower regen. What is your perspective on these mods?

 

 

INCANDESCENT SKIN:

Silver

 

* Energy Focus - Decreases the regeneration time of the aspect Arrant Pyromancer. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease)

* Revenge - Chance to reflect close combat damage. (30% + 2% per CA level chance)

 

Gold

 

* Arrant Pyromancer Expertise - Further decreases the regeneration time for the Arrant Pyromancer aspect. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease)

* Fiery Ardor - Additionally increases fire damage. (50% + 2% per CA level increase)

 

 

BLAZING TEMPEST:

 

* Spell Flow - Significantly decreases the regeneration time of Blazing Tempest. (33.3% decrease)

* Conflagration - Sets targets ablaze. (41.7% increase in burning damage)

 

GRAND INVIGORATION:

Silver:

* Replenish - Further decreases the regeneration time of all spells. (7% + 0.7% per CA level decrease)

* Life Energy - Additionally increases the hitpoint regeneration rate. (1.5hp/sec + 1hp/sec per CA level)

 

 

My leanings are towards Revenge because not much else gives reflect and 30% >20%), fiery ardor because (50% > 20%) and a lot of people on SIF said that if we say your damage is D and your regen is R, and you choose Pyromancer Expertise, to get your damage up to what it would have been with fiery ardor, you would have to eat a quantity of runes that would make your regen higher than its initial level R. The same logic was applied to temest and conflagration/spell flow.

 

For grand invigoration, I find my high elf to be squishy so the extra HP regen seems it would really help but these 2 seem much harder to compare than the 2 above.

 

But if I make all these choices, that would mean I would have none of the regen modifiers which is maybe a mistake. What do you think?

 

EDIT:

Note about Katran's Pyro Regen time with no equipment and both regen mods chosen on IS and the regen mod chosen on GI: Not sure what character level this was measured at which would make a difference.

Incandescent Skin 137lv

49.3% +

86.1% -

 

Grand Invigoration 127lv

70% -

 

Fire Demon 130lv

43% +

 

Links to pics from spunky's character having chosen the healing mod on grand invigoration and fiery ardor on inc skin (note this character has delphic arcania lore):

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/ii424/S..._2009/Buffs.png

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I.....;/AttackCAs.png

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I...llsAttribs.png

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I...2009/Bonus.png

http://i550.photobucket.com/albums/I...09/Diverse.png

 

 

 

Would like to see data like this from others with other mods chosen... END OF EDIT.

 

 

------------------------------------------

Here is some information on my current build.

 

My build is 50/50 Vitality and Stamina with the following skills so far:

 

Pyro Lore

Pyro Focus

Armor

Delphic Focus

Concentration

Ancient Magic

 

Planning to get:

Bargaining or Delphic Lore

Shield Lore or Delphic Lore

Constitution or Delphic Lore

Combat Discipline or Delphic Lore

 

Opinions on the skills are welcome too.

 

If I take delphic lore, the hp regen modifier would probably not be neede but I'm not sure that's a good choice either.

 

Main CA : Tempest, Fireball or Meteor for walkable water areas Boss Killer: Meteor

Mods Chosen so far:

Tempest: Damage, Extra Burn, Crit

Meteor: Stun, Extra meteors (think the other choice would have been better since not all meteors hit reg mobs but the ones that do would do more damage with the other mod), Undecided

Grand Invigoration: Pyromancer Expertise, Undecided, Undecided

 

 

Other CAs: Teleport+Expel magic combo currently unmodded, If I get delphic lore: cobalt strike as boss debuffer

If I get both combat Discipline and Delphic lore: Boss combo: Teleport, Cobalt Strike modded as debuffer, Expell Magic, Meteor swarm

Mount: Pyro Lizard

Edited September 8, 2009 by ka243

[chattius 2,526]

I took the road of no return. I am playing the AddOn now and can't test 2.43 now anymore. If you plan to make your character fit for the AddOn:

Runes are capped at 200 now.

DoT is calculated different now, good for characters with damage lore, good for enemies with damage lore too it seems. You need better protection against DoT. Some enemies now have nasty life leech Combat Arts, so block/reflect CA is only protection,.....

Regeneration per Hit now seems to work on PC, so you could charge Combat Arts with melee hits.

 

My daughter was not choosing any regeneration time modifier on her shield maiden and she plays the AddOn in Niob now:

 

Her Character is an Ice/Melee hybrid. Starting the melee route and around level 75 full capable to play ice elf as well.

 

arcane lore

armour

arcane focus

concentration

ice lore

shield lore

constitution

inferno focus

ice focus

ancient magic

 

We have smith and bargain characters. The inferno focus is there because fire skin is the better protection if she plays melee. But even in melee, at casters swapping to the crystal skin and its ca-reflect is an option. Even if she does the crazy idea and plays with ice spells while having fire skin she wasn't complaining about too long regeneration times.

[ka243 3]

Thanks for your input.

 

You mention CA reflection... Does the revenge mod for fire skin do that or does it only reflect "normal" melee attacks?

What are your opinions on the mods to pick among the CAs and choices above? This is the main point of the topic. I put my current build also for information.

[chattius 2,526]

Crystal skin bronze can reflect CA, fire skin can reflect melee and block ranged. So she is using the skin which fits better to the area. She has both skins modified.

[ka243 3]

As always, thank you for participating in the discussion.

 

So in your opinion, the best choices are which ones?

 

INCANDESCENT SKIN:

Silver * Revenge - Chance to reflect close combat damage. (30% + 2% per CA level chance) - According to you, this is the better choice but you recommend also getting ice skin because the close combat reflect of fire skin does NOT work against enemy CAs, it ONLY works versus "normal" attacks? I don't plan on getting ice focus but that's interesting to know.

 

Gold: Which one/why?

 

* Arrant Pyromancer Expertise - Further decreases the regeneration time for the Arrant Pyromancer aspect. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease)

* Fiery Ardor - Additionally increases fire damage. (50% + 2% per CA level increase)

 

 

BLAZING TEMPEST: Which one/why?

 

* Spell Flow - Significantly decreases the regeneration time of Blazing Tempest. (33.3% decrease)

* Conflagration - Sets targets ablaze. (41.7% increase in burning damage)

 

GRAND INVIGORATION: Which one/why?

 

* Replenish - Further decreases the regeneration time of all spells. (7% + 0.7% per CA level decrease)

* Life Energy - Additionally increases the hitpoint regeneration rate. (1.5hp/sec + 1hp/sec per CA level)

 

Thank you in advance to anyone else who could share an opinion also.

Edited September 7, 2009 by ka243

[chattius 2,526]

INCANDESCENT SKIN is not reflecting spells (what I understand under CA). Like the attack from these orbs in dryad jungle.

I would choose reflect melee and more fire damage. Out of my experience you will need too much sockets to replace reflect melee with jewels. Later (platinum, niob) in game the balance between more damage from the buff, or more damage from higher spells because of better regeneration from the buff turns to modifying for damage.

Early in game lower regeneration times seem to be better.

 

GRAND INVIGORATION:

I was deciding for life regeneration, because I hate it to depend on a heal potion, which have a delay, is not healing for 100% later in niob, and so on. A more end game decision for my personal taste.

 

BLAZING TEMPEST:

People use it in many different ways: many waves or a big one and let enemies die on DoT. A friend at firefighters use DoT approach and he uses equipment with knockback to keep enemies at distance. I never played a pyro myself.

[Barristan 14]

Heya,

 

Here is what I did... the HE is level 114... doing good, but haven't played her lately.

 

INCANDESCENT SKIN:

Silver

* Revenge - Chance to reflect close combat damage. (30% + 2% per CA level chance)

 

Gold

* Arrant Pyromancer Expertise - Further decreases the regeneration time for the Arrant Pyromancer aspect. (20% + 1% per CA level decrease)

 

 

BLAZING TEMPEST:

* Spell Flow - Significantly decreases the regeneration time of Blazing Tempest. (33.3% decrease)

 

GRAND INVIGORATION:

* Replenish - Further decreases the regeneration time of all spells. (7% + 0.7% per CA level decrease)

 

This way, you have the reflect and some decent regen mods. I'm in doubt however if regen on GI was the best choice.

 

You could also check Kat's Pyro guide for some pointers.

 

Greetz

[ka243 3]

When I say CA, I mean combat art. For example, shield lore gives "chance to block combat art".

 

I think the healing mod on grand invigoration gives a flat amount of extra HP regen (regardless of your hp amount and regardless of your vitality or level in constitution or delphic arcania lore).

So, if the numbers from the wiki are correct, for example at CA level 150, this silver mod should give about 151.5 HP/Sec (=1hp/sec + 1.5hp/sec/CA level). or an additional -105.7% combat art regen time (=7% + 0.7% per CA Level).

 

If this is the case It seems that the HP regen mod would be better at the beginning of the game, but 151.5 hp/sec would represent a very low overall increase in your hp regen at the end of the game, so the regen mod would be better at the end of the game. Is this analysis valid or is the wiki incorrect about the numbers?

 

As the game is generally easier at lower levels than higher levels, I want to pick the mods that will benefit your character most at higher levels.

 

EDIT: Added some info about CA stats with certain mods chosen from a toon with no gear on. Would like to see stats from others who chose the other mods.

Edited September 8, 2009 by ka243

[Zonc1 0]

Melee based CAs and primary attacks (left click) are both "close combat". Confirmed in PvP testing.

Most people forget that if they chose "too much" regen mods, their CA levels will fall into penalty zone at some point = dmg/other mods are better in long term.

[ka243 3]

Melee based CAs and primary attacks (left click) are both "close combat". Confirmed in PvP testing.

Most people forget that if they chose "too much" regen mods, their CA levels will fall into penalty zone at some point = dmg/other mods are better in long term.

 

Thanks zonc, that's good to know. What would you pick among the CA mods listed?

Edited September 7, 2009 by ka243

[Katran 0]

INCANDESCENT SKIN:

Silver and gold for regen. Why I went over damage and reflect.

Reflect is good if you cant count on your maneuvering skills. And for some peoples play still is a valid pick.

Damage I dont really cear about the damage aspect for my buff since I could get more damage many other ways.

 

BLAZING TEMPEST:

Spell Flow or Conflagration since I already chose a IS for regen dont really need spell flow plus its only limiting to BT. On the other hand Conflagration adds to burn and since BTs big plus is burn well thats the way I would go everytime,

 

GRAND INVIGORATION:

Here I went regen. since HP regen is a joke even more at a later stage like Niob. If you get in trouble space bar is your best friend. If you wait on this thing to regen HP a sec you will be dead long before. Use Constitution to cover your HP stats. Plus a general regen time cut is a big big plus.

[Zonc1 0]

Well mine is melee elf so my priorities are different from casters'.

Skin:

- reflect melee (obviously)

- more fire dmg: I took it hoping that I'll find some nice weps with fire dmg. And eventually, Thain's Axe (114, one socket) already outdamages Desert Sable (105, two sockets)

GI:

- HP regen: I just hate healing potions

As for Tempest... well I guess there are two ways to build BT: spammin with lower dmg or strong with high DoT dmg. I don't really know how are the regens with BT, so I dunno if it's easy to get into CA penalty zone.

[ka243 3]

INCANDESCENT SKIN:

Silver and gold for regen. Why I went over damage and reflect.

Reflect is good if you cant count on your maneuvering skills. And for some peoples play still is a valid pick.

Damage I dont really cear about the damage aspect for my buff since I could get more damage many other ways.

 

BLAZING TEMPEST:

Spell Flow or Conflagration since I already chose a IS for regen dont really need spell flow plus its only limiting to BT. On the other hand Conflagration adds to burn and since BTs big plus is burn well thats the way I would go everytime,

 

GRAND INVIGORATION:

Here I went regen. since HP regen is a joke even more at a later stage like Niob. If you get in trouble space bar is your best friend. If you wait on this thing to regen HP a sec you will be dead long before. Use Constitution to cover your HP stats. Plus a general regen time cut is a big big plus.

 

Thanks for your input and I understand your reasoning on this choice. Of course its better to outmaneuver the mobs but if you manuver it takes more time. You can kill faster if you have to maneuver less, you can't maneuver if you are stunned, it is harder to do in contained areas, and mobs move faster at higher difficulty levels.

 

Concerning fiery Ardor/Pyro expertise: The question is whether the damage or the regen time would be of greater benefit in general. Of course you can get damage from other places but you can also get regen from other places. I am trying to determine which mod gives the most benefit.

 

Concerning Grand Invigoration, I think that the CA regen time mod is better based on my calculations above but I wonder if the numbers from the wiki are correct. For example, according to my calculations, the silver regen mod should give 7% + 0,7% per ca level regen. At level 127, this should give an additional 7%+139*0,7%=95.9%. However, in one of your posts Katran, you say you have chosen this mod and at CA level 127, you have only 70% regen time reduction from this buff overall. So the wiki appears to be wrong on this point.

Edited September 8, 2009 by ka243

[ka243 3]

Well mine is melee elf so my priorities are different from casters'.

Skin:

- reflect melee (obviously)

- more fire dmg: I took it hoping that I'll find some nice weps with fire dmg. And eventually, Thain's Axe (114, one socket) already outdamages Desert Sable (105, two sockets)

GI:

- HP regen: I just hate healing potions

As for Tempest... well I guess there are two ways to build BT: spammin with lower dmg or strong with high DoT dmg. I don't really know how are the regens with BT, so I dunno if it's easy to get into CA penalty zone.

 

Thank you for your reply. I also hate healing potions. But I wonder if the amount of extra HP regen from this mod is negligable compared to your overall HP regen without this mod at high levels and also compared to the extra CA regen at high levels it offers or not (see my last post). I would be curious what is your health regen with the mod and without the mod (hard to test) or what is your health regen with the buff or without the buff?

 

I should specify that I am playing a caster.

Edited September 8, 2009 by ka243

[Katran 0]

Thanks for your input and I understand your reasoning on this choice. Of course its better to outmaneuver the mobs but if you manuver it takes more time. You can kill faster if you have to maneuver less, you can't maneuver if you are stunned, it is harder to do in contained areas, and mobs move faster at higher difficulty levels.

 

Concerning fiery Ardor/Pyro expertise: The question is whether the damage or the regen time would be of greater benefit in general. Of course you can get damage from other places but you can also get regen from other places. I am trying to determine which mod gives the most benefit.

 

Concerning Grand Invigoration, I think that the CA regen time mod is better based on my calculations above but I wonder if the numbers from the wiki are correct. For example, according to my calculations, the silver regen mod should give 7% + 0,7% per ca level regen. At level 127, this should give an additional 7%+139*0,7%=95.9%. However, in one of your posts Katran, you say you have chosen this mod and at CA level 127, you have only 70% regen time reduction from this buff overall. So the wiki appears to be wrong on this point.

 

What do you mean it takes more time to kill when you manuver? It doesnt. BT is a fire and forget weapon you just point your mouse in the mob general direction and click. As such you have all the time in the world to manuver. Plus with a fast regen you have a ton of waves to guard you. Add to that a lot of damage per wave and you have a shield to protect you. You also seem to talk about stun and such that would prevent you from moving. Well that all depends on your playing style. It depends a lot on how you advance in an area and so much more things which any experienced players should be aware of.

Some how I knew you where going to say yea you can get regen from other places. You better re think that since the ways to get more damage are a lot more then the ways to cut regen.

 

In the end of the day you are looking for whats best I dont think there is such a thing. What it best depends on how you play and what kind of a build you play.

[ka243 3]

When I said it takes more time to kill if you maneuver I mean you can't spam your cas while you are moving, so if you have to move a lot to avoid, maybe you won't be able to shoot as fast.

 

If you are stunned, it seems to me that you cannot move and can't manuver. In this case, it could be helpful to have close combat reflected. If you get GI and fire demon high enough with the mods to reduce detrimental effects would this stop you from ever getting stunned? In this case maybe the close combat reflect mod would be less good.

 

The wiki says this about the frosty breeze mod which it seems to me is just like the fiery ardor mod but for ice:

* The "Mystic Stormite Expertise" gold mod provides a scaling regeneration bonus that will improve with additional runes. This is most useful early in a character's life when regeneration time balancing is difficult. This mod becomes less useful over time however, as the Crystal Skin CA has a built-in reduction of Mystic Stormite regeneration times already, and the natural progression of a character in higher levels means drastically decreased regeneration times in general.

* The "Frosty Breeze" gold mod provides a scaling damage bonus that will improve with additional runes. This is most useful late in a character's life when a percentage based increase in damage means tens to hundreds of points in additional ice damage.

 

Who wrote this I wonder and is it sure that this analysis also applies correctly to fiery ardor and can we make the generalization that regen mods are best in character early life and damage/defense/life regen mods are better in later life?

 

The fire skin and GI buffs give bonuses to regen as a basis. Other places to get extra regen late in character life are numerous like extra stamina, concentration, aspect focus, + skills boosting both focus and concentration, pyro mount, fire elf set, rings and amulets.

Of course there are lots of places to get more damage too.

 

The screnshots of the character in the topic seem quite powerful with the mods he chose. I would like to see some screenshots of the CA mods chosen by other characters also to compare.

Edited September 9, 2009 by ka243