Pelting from afar with Close combat weapons

[Dobri 55]

Well, I'm unsure if this has been noted before, but I'm beginning to think that the problem with multi-hitting with projectiles provided by the staff (and staff lore) also occurs with other weapons. In my last encounter with the griffin, a few Kobolds came to help him so I moved away and used pelting strikes. Since I noticed something like this happens, I moved away as much as I could and pelted.

 

The griffin took several hits as well, even though I'm using fire lightsabers (the griffin has absolutely no fire resistance).

 

I'll try to get a screen or two with this problem

 

http://tinypic.com/r/2mwf691/5

 

There it is - for some reason imageshack and photobucket didn't upload the image, so I had to use a third option.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Dobri

[Ysne58 236]

Well, I'm unsure if this has been noted before, but I'm beginning to think that the problem with multi-hitting with projectiles provided by the staff (and staff lore) also occurs with other weapons. In my last encounter with the griffin, a few Kobolds came to help him so I moved away and used pelting strikes. Since I noticed something like this happens, I moved away as much as I could and pelted.

 

The griffin took several hits as well, even though I'm using fire lightsabers (the griffin has absolutely no fire resistance).

 

I'll try to get a screen or two with this problem

 

http://tinypic.com/r/2mwf691/5

 

There it is - for some reason imageshack and photobucket didn't upload the image, so I had to use a third option.

 

 

I would be willing to bet this only happens with Seras who have learned the Staffs skill. That ranged effect only happens with my staff wielders, and I have not tried them with other weapons, but I will cause now I'm curious.

[Dobri 55]

Well, as you can see, I don't have staffs at all. And it so happens that I managed to make another screenhot - this time with the boss almost outside the screen.

 

http://tinypic.com/r/2hgfckl/5

 

However, I've noticed that this only applies to the boss. There were a few instances in which I managed to hit a far away mob, but those were much rarer.

[chattius 2,529]

What you describe can happen on console, PC with and without AddON

I think this is not same as staves. What you are describing I normally see at targets with many hitpoints. You target them with a multi-attack and keep the key pressed.Then the follow up attacks may hit- even the main target moved away- as long there are still other enemies (bodies?) are around.

Another thing I saw it happen was when it is not possible to run to the target because of a small stone or something like this in the way, which blocked running but not the attack which could have done above the stone.

I think is like:

1. Sacred is calculating a route to the target, but it uses 3D at shoulder height.

2. Walking uses 2D. If a small obstacle (like a stone) is blocking the walk then it stops walking.

3. Now it tests if an attack on the target is possible from the place you stopped.

4. The stone is small so a sword strike or shoot would be possible above it.

5. Somehow the range of a weapon is not checked. Only if there is a direct line to the target on torso height.

 

Another possibility is a weird Krebsgang (whats that in english? moving sidewards like a crab, or a samurai who circles an enemy while moving sidewards). You have direct sight to the target but a stone, small enemy is in the way. Sacred tried to move to the target, but another routine notices the obstacle and then something weird happens:

The character moves in a 90degree angle but with body orientation towards the target. If character moved the distance, but 90% wrong, to the target he tries to attack from there.

 

 

Staff lore multi attacks (like [s2wiki]Darting Assault">Darting Assault">[s2wiki]Darting Assault) are different: They hit targets behind a hill, walls, ... as long they are in shooting range, ignoring line of sight. And it is only on the AddOn AFAIK .

Edited March 17, 2010 by chattius

[Dobri 55]

That's the problem, chattius - although your logic is good, the griffin was nowhere near my char all the time and it didn't move. Actually, in the second pic, he was just coming into the screen and still got hit. However, I think your assumption about big-HP mobs is correct... I'll do some in-depth testing on that.

[chattius 2,529]

But you never saw hitting targets behind walls and hills as it is with staves?

[Dobri 55]

Truthfully, never... In the second screen, I've just finished pelting a kobold right in front of my little Seraphim (hence the green XP line) when the griffin came in the screen and I started leeching off it and the pelting animation continued.

Edited March 17, 2010 by Dobri

[chattius 2,529]

If you you Darting Assault and a staff lore boosted staff in the AddOn, some RpH and life leech then there are a lot of leech lines through walls and hills to enemies you can't even see. So I think this is a serious bug.

The out of range attacks you are talking about are not hitting several enemies at once. I noticed them only on a single target in an attack series normally. You too ?

[Purple Lizard 1]

Hmm, do you get this same effect without life leech active? Otherwise, I always assumed this was just a part of life leech, as I believe I have gotten this effect using Shadow Warrior's Frenzied Rampage as well.

[Dobri 55]

If you you [s2wiki]Darting Assault">Darting Assault">[s2wiki]Darting Assault and a staff lore boosted staff in the AddOn, some RpH and life leech then there are a lot of leech lines through walls and hills to enemies you can't even see. So I think this is a serious bug.

The out of range attacks you are talking about are not hitting several enemies at once. I noticed them only on a single target in an attack series normally. You too ?

 

Well yes, because Pelting is not a multi-target attack. It attacks a monster, if it dies, then it goes to a second one if there's one in range. So in essence that doesn't make it like Darting Assault at all.

[essjayehm 58]

But you never saw hitting targets behind walls and hills as it is with staves?

 

With a sword/shield seraphim, I have seen Pelting hit enemies thru a wall, but there was an open door nearby... not sure if that had anything to happen to it. The leech lines definitly went through the wall.

 

 

Krebsgang - walking sideways like a crab is "side-stepping" in english AFAIK

Krebsgang - moving like a samurai circling the enemy - "flanking" in english, although flanking has different definitions, depeding on context.

 

Without using a translator, I think you mean flanking. Side-stepping is closer to evade than flanking (defensive rather than offensive moves).

 

I am on a melee dryad now, but I haven't used Darting Assault near walls, etc.

 

Console observations, obv?

 

Hmm, do you get this same effect without life leech active? Otherwise, I always assumed this was just a part of life leech, as I believe I have gotten this effect using Shadow Warrior's Frenzied Rampage as well.

 

Without the life leech, it can be hard to tell where your attacks are hitting (without eagle-eyes, I suppose...)

 

Otherwise, life leech does not affect this phenomenon (tested with Frenzied before Vampire mod). PS3, ofc.

[Dobri 55]

Against a boss, you can tell, and I could tell The boss health bar is always on the top of the screen and it gets reduced after a successful hit. That's a dead giveaway that the skill hit. Besides, the life leech of 10 points doesn't justify the big drop of health from the boss on the second screen, does it

[essjayehm 58]

Against a boss, you can tell, and I could tell The boss health bar is always on the top of the screen and it gets reduced after a successful hit. That's a dead giveaway that the skill hit. Besides, the life leech of 10 points doesn't justify the big drop of health from the boss on the second screen, does it

 

Of course, not!

 

Actually, I was not referring to the link/video, more of a general observation post. Without life leech, if you have one or two weak enemies near you and another enemy off-screen, it's impossible to tell that Pelting Strikes hit the off-screen mob (after killing the closer 2 enemies with 1 hit each) without "knowing" what is happening.

 

I was quite interested in this phenomenon for a while, possibly as a defensive manouver for hitting bosses, etc from a different room. Never worked when I "tried" to make it work! Only the odd time.

[Dragon Brother 619]

Hmm, do you get this same effect without life leech active? Otherwise, I always assumed this was just a part of life leech, as I believe I have gotten this effect using Shadow Warrior's Frenzied Rampage as well.

I'm with him on this, FR and even PS seem to hit stuff outside of normal melee range sometimes I've noticed. Its easily visible with lifeleech, but you can mow down everyone around you and then take out an orc 1/2 a screen away.

[Antitrust 32]

Another possibility is a weird Krebsgang (whats that in english? moving sidewards like a crab, or a samurai who circles an enemy while moving sidewards)

Strafing?

[Llama8 8]

Another possibility is a weird Krebsgang (whats that in english? moving sidewards like a crab, or a samurai who circles an enemy while moving sidewards)

Strafing?

 

Only from a gaming point of view Anti, strafing has a somewhat different meaning otherwise.

 

Incidentally, anyone know why I can't type in any text when replying to posts, I have to reply & then edit the post to be able to type in text. If I use the "full editor" I can't type in text (I'm using Firefox 3.6).

[Spunky 16]

Hmm, do you get this same effect without life leech active? Otherwise, I always assumed this was just a part of life leech, as I believe I have gotten this effect using Shadow Warrior's Frenzied Rampage as well.

I'm with him on this, FR and even PS seem to hit stuff outside of normal melee range sometimes I've noticed. Its easily visible with lifeleech, but you can mow down everyone around you and then take out an orc 1/2 a screen away.

 

Agree, usually when I go into the Grunwald cave to take down the Dragon I hit him miles away after the Elementals that is near the entrance is down, and there's some attacks left in Frenzied that he "fires" off in the Dragons direction.

[chattius 2,529]

I looked up Krebsgang and after filtering away links to the Book of Grass "Im Krebsgang" (english Crabwalk) which is about people trying to flee from the red army in WW2 over the baltic sea. Then the Gustloff is sank with over 9000 dead, biggest ship disaster in whole history. Then there is Krebsgang used in music describing a permutation.

 

In my case:

Krebsgang seems to be best translated as crabwise, sideways moving while facing an enemy.

 

If the character is at (0,0) and the target at (x,y) then the direction to the target is (x,y). But the character is not moving this way if there is a stone or any other small obstacle in the way ,it rather moves (-y,x) which is an angle of 90 degree. The face and run animation is in (x,y) direction while it is moving (-y,x). That why I called it 'crabwise'.

 

You can see a similiar behaviour in monster groups. You aim at a target in the mid of a dense group. There is a high probability that an another enemy blocks the direct approach. So instead running to the center of the monster circle it runs tangential the distance it would have needed to reach the center, then it tries to hit the target again. If you kept the button pressed it will try to run tangential on the circle till it finds a hole. I think this behaviour is related to the above mentioned long distant crabwise.

 

Sorry I do a bit hard with maths in english. I never had the language at school.

Edited March 19, 2010 by chattius

[essjayehm 58]

I looked up Krebsgang and after filtering away links to the Book of Grass "Im Krebsgang" (english Crabwalk) which is about people trying to flee from the red army in WW2 over the baltic sea. Then the Gustloff is sank with over 9000 dead, biggest ship disaster in whole history. Then there is Krebsgang used in music describing a permutation.

 

In my case:

Krebsgang seems to be best translated as crabwise, sideways moving while facing an enemy.

 

If the character is at (0,0) and the target at (x,y) then the direction to the target is (x,y). But the character is not moving this way if there is a stone or any other small obstacle in the way ,it rather moves (-y,x) which is an angle of 90 degree. The face and run animation is in (x,y) direction while it is moving (-y,x). That why I called it 'crabwise'.

 

You can see a similiar behaviour in monster groups. You aim at a target in the mid of a dense group. There is a high probability that an another enemy blocks the direct approach. So instead running to the center of the monster circle it runs tangential the distance it would have needed to reach the center, then it tries to hit the target again. If you kept the button pressed it will try to run tangential on the circle till it finds a hole. I think this behaviour is related to the above mentioned long distant crabwise.

 

Sorry I do a bit hard with maths in english. I never had the language at school.

 

Well, despite not being schooled in English, your explaination is sound! Makes sense to me, anyway....

 

Either I haven't seen this crab-walk, or console version handles the issue differently. When "Sacred" is moving my toon to try to hit an enemy, it seems to walk "normally" (facing direction of travel) around the obstacle, until the attack is executed. I see this when targeting an enemy in the center of a group; sometimes my toon will freak out, especially when the crowd is moving and Sacred is re-calculating the direction to move. The character goes one direction, and then turns, takes a step (or not even a step, just a pause) goes another direction, etc.

 

Since my brother just joined the army, and is in basic training, I have a good laugh when this happens, thinking of him being commanded to "Halt. Face Left. March. Face right. March!" (attack at some point, please! Oh, wait, we're Canadian.)

[Vivicloud01 0]

My pelting strikes does that all the time with life leech of course. Not as far as that but still I can kill and few mobs that are near me and then a few that are abit farther away. ^-^