How soon is soon?

[cyclops 15]

Quite a simple question but is there really a right answer! Before I ask this again let me tell you guys a story. Read on!

 

Last May 5 I was quite excited because a friend told me to go to his workplace and submit my resume to his boss. Apparently they will be having a job opening because one guy got kicked out and another will be having a vacation really soon. I went home 1:30 AM that morning because I had a night job and didn't sleep until 3:30 AM. So basically I had just 3 hours of sleep and my cognitive functions were not really at 100% when I arrived at his office. I expected to just submit my resume then come back another day for the interview. How wrong could I get:) I was interviewed immediately albeit informally. I forgot some basic terms in the job and I wasn't answering in a smart way. Good thing the number 2 guy in the department was there and he helped me out by downplaying my "mistakes". In the end the boss took me to the HR department to sign some forms and for scheduling of a 2nd interview.

 

The interview happened last May 10 and it was a red letter date for me because it marked my 1st formal interview in Australian soil after having gotten my permanent residency last March. I was interviewed by 2 managers (one was the boss I previously mentioned) and it was going very well indeed (they already mentioned the salary without me asking) until a question regarding my previous job assignment (I actually worked for a couple of months here as a casual employee) was asked. One of the manager wants me to obtain a letter of release from the company that assigned me here and that marked the end of the interview. My friend told me that the interview was supposed to be just a formality but it got a bit different after that question.

 

Now things started to get a bit tricky. I emailed the manager that I have a major concern regarding the requested letter of release because I didn't sign any contract when I was assigned to work in their place so how can I get a letter without a contract in the 1st place. I actually contacted said company and found out that they acquired my services through an agency. So another problem because I also didn't sign any contract with this agency. I called the manager and asked if she read my email. She said yes and that she'll get back to me "soon". That was 5 days ago! I have been working for more than 10 years before migrating here including some managerial positions and when I say "soon" expect me to get back at most a day after (usually I get back within the day). That manager is not even replying to my email so I don't know the next step I'm supposed to do. My friend called me last night and my suspicions were correct because the position has suddenly been opened to other applicants. But my friend told me that he and his boss are trying to work it out with HR and he believes I still have the upper hand. I guess it's a big plus that his boss favors me. I just hope he "wields a bigger stick" than HR.

 

Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent a bit. So I ask the question just how soon is soon!

[essjayehm 58]

Quite a simple question but is there really a right answer! Before I ask this again let me tell you guys a story. Read on!

 

Sorry for the long post but I needed to vent a bit. So I ask the question just how soon is soon!

Actually, this is one of the trickier/stickier situations for gaining employment. My common sense (don't know where/if it was learned) says that if the position is more "aggressive" like a sales position, then you should be/can be more aggressive. If the job requires more patience (ie homecare provider) then more patience should be shown during the hiring process. Just my 2 cents.

 

IMO, 5 days is probably a good amount of time to contact them again, especially since you have "inside information". If there are genuine concerns regarding some legal aspect (ie recruitment concerns) then you may be in limbo forever, as it may not be worth the risk of being sued by the companies that you "worked" for.

 

At the end of the day, I think unless they have directly said "don't call us, we'll call you" or somesuch statement, then you are not out of place to inquire about your prospective employment...

[chattius 2,535]

Normally the top level people only check legal stuff and salary once a master-worker says that the new guy is good.

 

I think german law is that the equivalent to letter of release and/or certificate of emboyment has to be send in not longer than 14 days by your old company.

 

If they don't answer and you have to proof that you worked for them, but are no longer on a regular basis: contact tax bureau, health insurance (they are paid by the company you work for here in germany) and/or your bank if you got your money by bank transfer. So you can proof that you worked for them and can contact a lawyer if they don't send it in 14 days.

 

So for the new company (if in germany) soon would be 14 working days to get your papers.

 

---

 

But if you never signed a contract:

visiting a notary, swearing that you have no running contract and signing the protocol from the notary should be all you need as a replacement for a letter of release. If you worked for a single person and this person would have died in a fire destroying all documents, you would have to do same. Ask your new company if a paper from a notary would be enough. If you sign a notary paper and are lying it is 3-5 years at jail. So normally companies should take it as a replacement. But I don't know if it is same in australia.

[locolagarto 15]

I hire some of my people through agencies, and it usually works like this, if the employee works for me for 90 days or 540 hours, I can hire them on directly, if an employee comes from an agency and then leaves for whatever reason, I can't hire them on directly until I get an agreement from the original agency that refereed then to begin with. Otherwise they have referred an employee to me for free, and agencies won't stay in business providing referrals for free.

 

If this prospective employer has an agreement with your former employer, they may be dragging their feet to make a decision. Ultimately, they can be liable for employment fees to the agency if they hire you without a release from the agency. So I understand the letter seems difficult, but it is in your best interest to get a letter from the agency that says you are not under contract, nor is any agreement in place. This makes you a free agent to be hired at will.

[cyclops 15]

Now this is really getting to be a pain! Just talked with the HR of the agency and I was told that they can make a release letter but the problem is they would be using their own letterhead and not that of the company I worked for. This would definitely be not acceptable to the company I'm applying to. So what he did was emailed the HR of that company stating my case. He's still waiting for the reply. I hope they change their stand because last time they said they could not make me one because they didn't hire me direct. This is the problem when your previous employer is doing not exactly illegal things but rather "extra-legal" things and the company you are applying for is all by the books. I hope this gets resolved soon because every day that passes is lessening my chance to be hired. I do have a couple of cards left to play but I hope it doesn't reach that point because they are not exactly nice.

Edited May 18, 2011 by cyclops

[masteff 64]

Just talked with the HR of the agency and I was told that they can make a release letter but the problem is they would be using their own letterhead and not that of the company I worked for. This would definitely be not acceptable to the company I'm applying to. So what he did was emailed the HR of that company stating my case. He's still waiting for the reply. I hope they change their stand because last time they said they could not make me one because they didn't hire me direct. This is the problem when your previous employer is doing not exactly illegal things but rather "extra-legal" things and the company you are applying for is all by the books. I hope this gets resolved soon because every day that passes is lessening my chance to be hired. I do have a couple of cards left to play but I hope it doesn't reach that point because they are not exactly nice.

The letter of release is because usually there's a contract between the company and the agency that a fee will be paid to the agency if you get hired full time. Since you came to them this time thru another way, then the agency should not earn a fee; thus the letter of release. So it's not so much to release you from a contract w/ the agency but for the agency to release the company from it's fee agreement.

 

I used to have a certification in HR (USA, not Aussie), so your best bet is working w/ the HR people to resolve it. I assume the manager at the hiring company is not in the HR department; so having the HR person who's helping you to work w/ both the 3rd company and the hiring company is a good thing as he should have the right contacts to get it done quickly and to the hiring company's satisfaction.

 

Fingers crossed for you!!

[cyclops 15]

The angels must be smiling at me because believe it or not but I was given the release letter!! I found it out through my friend last night. It seem some people pulled the right strings for me. I actually had an interview this morning and I was quite surprised because the interviewer was very senior in level (I think at least a VP) considering the position I'm applying for is not really that high. I'm keeping my fingers crossed because she commented that I'm a bit too educated for the position (ouch!!)