Shield Lore

[JKtheWonderguy 3]

K.

 

I must confess I don't know what the numbers on shields mean.

 

I pick a shield up, my level is 20, and it has a modifier on it that says '28.6 to block close combat'. I pick it up and use it.

When I level up, my shield says '29.5 to block close combat'.

I haven't added a point to shield lore, yet it increased.

 

Matter of fact, in Niob, any shield I picked up with a 98 level toon (even a level 29 shield in my box) says '144.4 percent to block close combat' when I look at my character for secondary effects.

It is usually more than double what the shield itself says by a little bit.

This happens even if I have one point invested, or if I have 50 points invested, in shield lore.

Then, logically, I would be unhittable by close combat......not.

 

Now the defense plus it shows in the tool tip is accurate when I put points into it or when plus skills pump it, so that's not what's misunderstood.

Also, I am aware of the 'lying character sheet' that is shown by the Sigma and elsewhere ( a really cool one is when you have battle stance that affects party members, where members see they suddenly are hitting for a million or more per hit, and 500,000 to hit )

 

If it has been Xplained prior, I missed it, so I apologize in advance in case I missed it. If that's the case, point me to it.

If it hasn't, what is the answer?

[chattius 2,531]

I always thought that the block chances at ca-tooltip had the not adjusted numbers, while clicking on the shield does the adjusted one. Like 20% block on one item and 10% on another is not 30% but probably only 25%.

 

When leveling up at same difficulty a few things could have happened: better set bonus so better +allSkills at a 3-4 items set bonus?

 

Guide about shield usage in forum and wiki:

 

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/topic/18441-guide-how-to-use-shields-in-sacred-2/

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacred_2:Guide_on_how_to_use_Shields_in_Sacred_2

 

No entry for your question, fill free to add your knowledge if you tested it out.

[gogoblender 3,071]

Dobri wrote up that shield guide on Wiki that Chattius linked to, he still comes to forum every few days, JK, he'll probably see this topic and be able to help out as well. I've sent him pm to see if he can help as well.

 

 

gogo

[Dobri 55]

It is completely feasible that some items may improve the stats as the char levels up - others may have static modifiers.

 

Another few things to consider:

- do you have a buff that provides close combat blocking? (you might have had increase there instead)

- did you get some + all skills or another item that may have boosted the stat?

- the character type is also important - along with skills, boni, and such

 

As for the big %, that's a simple value with which a base stat is increased or decreased. If your base for blocking is... say, 20%, 200% over those 20% will mean 2 more times 20%, which is a base value of 60%... so you will still get hit, and quite often at that.

[JKtheWonderguy 3]

That indeed may shed the light needed Dobri.

 

The adjusted stat for secondary effect assessment is more than likely where the understanding of it comes in.

You can see if you take a shield lore toon into silver, then log into the higher level difficulties, the number jumps substantially each difficulty level

As said also, soft skills, boni, etc, prolly add into the adjustment as well.

 

As far as I can see, the modifiers for chance to block close combat, chance to block projectiles, and defense boni are applied universally to character level.

In other words, any shield I pick up, whether it's a level one or level 101, the bonus on the shield itself is tied only to character level, and nothing else.

 

So you have a base stat modified by the adjustment, which is what you see in the secondary effect window.

 

I have a preliminary assessment.

I will need test to confirm formulae involved.

 

----

 

What I wonder is why the mathematics involved with Sacred 2 were not finished, in my opinion.

They had the raw data of course, and the raw data applied as intended, yet was not represented when completed.

 

IOW, it was like working a complicated math problem in school, and handing it to the professor thus: X = 'we didn't bother calculating the final answer'

 

I sure hope Sacred 3 does a complete job of calculation

[Antitrust 32]

If I remember correctly, item bonuses don't change based on character level (they are only generated based on it, or on the level of monster).

 

The bonuses only change if you switch the current difficulty (only for some bonuses such as Serious Open Wounds), or when you increase a skill level (only for modifiable bonuses).

 

Are you sure you hadn't switched a difficulty before looking at that shield for the second time?

[JKtheWonderguy 3]

Absolutely positive bro.

 

I can provide exact numerical data on future shield characters, but right now I'm running online characters only, so will give you info as I go.

Now keep in mind I'm only talking about three mods that show up on shields, + D, + block CC, + block proj.

 

As Dobri pointed out wiki-wise, shields add to *total* D, as opposed to direct D.

I feel it is just like another armor piece as the game sees it as a whole, as the numbers line up, and the percentage of D + is added through the shield lore number in skill points.

 

Also, I feel these scalable numbers add to 'D against' certain attacks.

For instance, if a shield has the D+ mod, it adds to D for all attacks, block CC adds to the check to be hit for CC, and block proj adds to the check for projectiles.

It doesn't have a shield check then armor check, in other words.

 

Right now I'm running two shield toons, one 78, one 39, so during level ups and such I can give you hard data, adjusted and non adjusted for skills

 

Without getting crazy with tables, as they show up really icky looking depending on the format you're looking at, I'll just list what I see --

Also keep in mind as I roll, although I studied advanced theoretical mathematics, and can pile numbers on top of each other, if they can't be communicated clearly, then why bother?

It's why I try to show direct correlation as much as possible =0)

 

Pouring through armor and sigma, there are no additional to block values than what is listed on the shield or shield lore alone

One hard point is chosen so far (and in the next few levels that will change), so those numbers can be viewed directly for perusal.

All Numbers provided here are 'Plus to Existing Values', not Absolute Values

 

To block CC

 

-- Silver --

• Shield Itself - 41.5
• Secondary Damage Effects Screen - 68.0
• Plus Skills - 50
• Defense Plus - 139.0
• Secondary Damage/Shield = 163 Percent Difference

-- Gold --

 

• Shield Itself - 49.0
• Secondary Damage Effects Screen - 93.1
• Plus Skills - 51
• Defense Plus - 140.6
• Secondary Damage/Shield = 190 Percent Difference

-- Plat --

 

• Shield Itself - 55.0
• Secondary Damage Effects Screen - 119.0
• Plus Skills - 52
• Defense Plus - 142.3
• Secondary Damage/Shield = 216 Percent Difference

Now, what I see here is a plus added for difficulty through the secondary damage effect screen per difficulty of roughly 25 percent.

I assume for now Bronze is the number for defense plus added (AKA 100 percent multiplier), but I haven't checked yet (no matter; I only play Bronze when forced, and I'll check it very soon anyway with another toon).

 

I can also assure you AT the shield plus block raises absolutely every level.

Take a second level toon with a shield lore unlocked and watch the mod as you move up.

Don't have hard numbers yet, but I'll bet my suspicions will be confirmed they move up like this:

 

• (Character level/2) * difficulty adjustment (0/25/50/75/100 for Bronze through Niob, respectively)

So, my preliminary findings bring me to tentative conclusion ==>

 

Shields with Shield Lore with these mods directly augment Defense THREE times, with difficulty modifier used TWICE ---

 

 

-- Global Defense

-- ((Character Level/2)*Difficulty Modifier) X (Defense Plus*Difficulty Modifier) toward more global defense, Block CC, or Block Projectiles

[essjayehm 58]

I can say that "by feel".. I agree with your theory, JK. Dunno about the difficluty part as I never jumped around between them enough to say, but changing you allskills skews your numbers in a way you might not anticipate. Can you isolate that / have the same allskills for each difficulty comparison?

 

Those numbers might suggest that Shields are overpowered? oO

Or just properly tested... that chance to block cc isn't absolute, of course, it only reduces the chance to hit by X amount...

[JKtheWonderguy 3]

Yeah, since now it not only interests me but others, I'll do hard study on em bro.

 

From what I can tell, shields seem to be overpowered, according to tooltips.

 

Yet we both (and every other player who has played for a while) know bout those lying character sheets.

[Phoenix 0]

JK, I know you're playing on PC. Does any have any data on whether Shield Lore is as good on console? Does it work the same way?

[essjayehm 58]

Again, by "feel"... I would say yes. I didn't do any research on it, though.

 

Literally my first "self-built" toon (not following a guide) was a Seraphim sword and board... and I was able to beat Platinum difficulty at level 82... with very low deaths. IIRC, the only death she had between gold and platinum difficluties was when I decided to see how fast she'd die without her buffs.

 

Melee elves also demonstrate this... all the shield-using elves have had no real issues before Platinum, but polearm elves are very squishy in comparison, easily killed by Orcs in gold... and getting worse from then on.

[Phoenix 0]

Interesting. I'd think the life regen from GI would make the High Elf pretty resilient. But the only one I ever got to high levels had a shield, so it's hard to say what would have happened without that.