Sacred 2 - Copy Protection Revealed - RPGWatch

[gogoblender 3,077]

This is interesting. RPGWatch has just released this information in a German PR detailing the kind of protection that Sacred 2 will be using.

 

From RPGWatch

 

 

Sacred 2 - Copy Protection Revealed

by Gorath, 11:31:06

 

Ascaron sent out a German PR with details about the CP & DRM solution for their upcoming action-RPG Sacred 2 - Fallen Angel. A FAQ explains further details. They have chosen SecuROM, but the implementation is more customer friendly than in other recent games. Details:

 

* 1 box, 2 licenses

* 1 license can be used online at a time; implying you use either your PC or your notebook, but not both at the same time.

* 2 can be played via LAN

* 2 can be used for SP

* unlimited installations, 2 activations

* Activations can be revoked through multiple channels (online-auto, online tools, offline). Revoke & re-activate can be done an unlimited number of times.

* One PC component can be replaced without problems. Beyond that revoke & re-activate is the recommended procedure.

* There will be an emergency hotline for DRM issues due to failed hardware, etc. The manual page with the key serves as proof of purchase.

* The hotline will be available 365 days a year, 24 hours per day. For standard phone rates. (This may apply for Germany only.; ed.)

* Internet connection is needed during installation. The FAQ explains you can use a friend's PC for manual activation though.

* You can play without the DVD. It´s not needed in the drive.

* No private data will be transfered during the activation process. You cannot even enter critical data.

* The activation servers will be available for the next couple of years. Should this no longer be the case, the DRM will be patched out.

* "A transfer to a third [party] is not part of the license." (transl.)

 

I was quite surprised the FAQ told me that the customer buys a license, not a product, and that "Sacred2 allows" ("Sacred2 genehmigt" in German) him to play the game.

Read more here

 

 

gogo

[Genenut 8]

Guess I'll be waiting for the patched out version of the DRM.... this "activiation" crap is rediculous. Its why spore wont be under my tree this year (or any year until they get rid of this crap). I've had to reinstall sacred atleast 4 times in the last 2 years just on my system. On lord's its been another 2 .... I do not need to be calling customer service because I had to reinstall the game due to hardware problems, upgrades or a certain teenager wanna be hacker... .

[bhj 24]

Hmmmm DRM now thats a word that makes the blood boil (not quite as bad as Star Force or a Rootkit but still...

 

I see the Sacred 2 activation page is available in 6 languages you can have a look at it here

 

In my personal opinion Ascaron should get a good old whiping for deciding to go with securerom

And I really find it kinda strange that they dare Just think of all the fuss there has been with other games that have used it

 

 

I also find it kinda strange that we are buying a license and not the game itself have a look at Sacred 2 Digital Rights Management Solution FAQ

but I guess thats Sony in a nutshell To bad Ascaron´s not boycotting Sony like iam (after the rootkit incident iam not even buying a floppy they made)

 

Let just hope we dont have to look at either one of this to often

 

And that Ascaron realize the error they made going with securerom (Sony) and patches it out

[gogoblender 3,077]

Same ole Ascaron

 

I remember when the game first came out the hundreds (wait thousands?) of posts on the Sacred International Forum with all the yelling, screaming and complaints. In those days, Starforce was a force to be reckoned with and the havoc it played with people's programs seemed to be a source of woe for many. I was lucky and my comp was new, I didn't have alcohol or a lot of other programs on it, and so missed the axe of ... dom dom dom dom...

 

Copy Protection!

 

Well, I think I'm on the fence on this so far after thinking about it for a day. Let's go through this mini-faq

 

 

Is it needed?

The publisher thinks so

 

Is it going to be a hassle?

Obviously

 

How are people feeling currently about it?

Read this thread

 

Will it turn off buyers from buying it?

It already has

 

Will all the old fans stick to it?

I'm sure most will, but perhaps they will be more hesitant and not buy it as quickly as thought, while waiting to see how the forums fill up with cheers or jeers.

 

Since the community is made up of gameplayers, how does the knowledge that changing more than one part of your comp mean you have to get it activated again make them feel?

 

a n g r y

 

 

 

Of course, I'm still going to buy it, I like Ascaron, enjoyed what they did with Sacred, and am hoping that spirit is still going to be in the second game. I just hope most of my time spent with this incarnation is actually in Ancaria rather than on a hotline

 

 

gogo

[gogoblender 3,077]

Heiko Tom Felde over at the SIF has just posted over here on this issue

 

Hello Folks

 

Sacred2 is offivcially Games for Windows certified and approved to carry and use this logo officially. Since Sacred2 and OUR way and special for us made Securom are married the combination Sacred2/Securom is GfW certified from Microsoft. Spyware and other bad things are not getting certification I can tell you.

 

Sacred2/Securom used and developed for Ascaron is 100% compatible with Microsoft Windows XP and Vista. We are implementing and developing Securom since Feb into Sacred2...long before Spore/Securom was in discussion.

 

The only data that will be send to the www.unlock.sacred2.com is the Serial Key from the back of the manual. The only data that www.unlocksacred2.com sends back to Sacred2 is the aktivation key.

 

You can do this all manually...no direct connection between Sacred2 and keyserver required if you dont trust Ascaron. It is just more easy to do it this way because its an automatic process.

 

After de-installation only one data is left : Sacred2 aktivation information to have an easy new installation process.

 

Sacred2 allows to change hardware...1 or 2 things at the same time and no new activation needed.

 

You decide on how many rigs Sacred 2 is installed...but only active on 2 rigs at the same time. Desktop and notebook...play adhoc LAN with somebody else...why not.

 

You can play LAN with your wife, kid or girlfirend, friend, husband, etc.

 

I dot like disk based CP...useless and not userfriendly. The first thing that comes up is a NoCD crack.

 

Sacred2/Securom is different from EA´s way of doing it. Our DRM is specialy designed to be user friendly as a compromize between your needs and our needs.

 

All the best

Heiko

[stubbie 21]

The fact we get a licence to play the game rather than actually own the game irks me.

Though the comment that they will remove the DRM when they close the servers is sorta comforting.

I want the ability to play at least the single player campaign years down the track if I so wish.

 

I'm in two minds about the SecuROM protection. And this decision will delay my purchase of the game.

I will see what feedback there is now about problems with this in the forums before I buy it. Such a shame

 

I know companies have to try and protect their games from copying.

But why didn't Ascaron just stick with what they used with Sacred?

 

That was a perfect protection system imho. It allowed you to play for a small amount of time (hopefully enough for peeps to get addicted) but then when you went to a certain part in the game it sent you to the naughty island.

As far as I am aware that was never able to be cracked.

And of coarse you simply could not play online.

 

I always felt that was a great copy protection system.

 

stubbs

[Llama8 8]

Guess I'll be waiting for the patched out version of the DRM.... this "activiation" crap is rediculous. Its why spore wont be under my tree this year (or any year until they get rid of this crap). I've had to reinstall sacred atleast 4 times in the last 2 years just on my system. On lord's its been another 2 .... I do not need to be calling customer service because I had to reinstall the game due to hardware problems, upgrades or a certain teenager wanna be hacker... .

 

With all due respect (and I do respect you), did you read the list in full?

 

Activations can be revoked through multiple channels (online-auto, online tools, offline). Revoke & re-activate can be done an unlimited number of times.

 

& from Heiko:

 

After de-installation only one data is left : Sacred2 aktivation information to have an easy new installation process

 

Given that activations can be done online (either via the game, which is what I'm assuming "online-auto" is, or via an activation tool), I don't think it's unreasonable to think that revokation/re-activation could also be done online as well (or not if that's what you prefer). I wouldn't want to have to phone anyone to get anything (games anyway) activated either, and my pc's connected to the net, so I'll be doing it like that. But if you don't trust doing something like that online on your gaming machine (fair enough, if you don't, you don't), you can go elsewhere & log in to the Sacred 2 activation site, enter your code, write down the activation code & then go home & type that in to manually activate it. It's more hassle for you (which isn't a good thing), but you can do it.

 

I'm sure there will be some false-positives thrown up by this system (there always will be), but hopefully they'll be very few in number.

 

I also do trust them to patch out the copy protection at some point, they've done it before. I believe that Ascaron are trying to find a middle ground between protecting their investment & not pissing their customers off (and we all know that CP ultimately doesn't stop hackers, so sooner or later they'll be able to play the SP portion of Sacred 2, but not the MP portion 'cause they won't have legit cd-keys).

 

 

My (personal) 2p about copy protection/DRM/etc in general:

 

I believe that the (gaming) world would be a much better place if there were no need (real or imagined) for copy protection. I believe that data (be that software, music or films) are fundamentally different to tangible products, so it infuriates me (just ask my wife) when I'm forced to watch several minutes of "You wouldn't steal a car/handbag/etc..." before being able to watch the DVD that I've rented, I also don't particularly want to be forced to sit through a ream of corporate logo's, or watch their coming releases. I believe that piracy does exist & that it does represent lost revenue, but probably not as much as the relevant parties believe that it does. I believe that the software/music/film industries have reacted based on their own worse fears of seeing all of their (or rather, their shareholders, after all, people have invested either directly or indirectly their own money in these industries/companies & the directors can be sued for failing in their fiduciary duties). They are trying to do the best that they can in dealing with a problem that they don't understand & can't effectively fight back against, it's far far easier to blame pirates for your game/film/music doing badly than it is to accept that mass-producing FECAL MATTER!e may be cheap & easy, but it doesn't sell as well as producing something good (and no, I don't know what that is). Though to be fair to them, there probably are some sales lost due to piracy (how many is a different kettle of fish), someone who pirates a game & wouldn't have bought it given the choice does not represent a lost sale. I also think that some genres are more prone to piracy than others, but that most people, if you give them a good game will buy it, even if they originally downloaded a pirated version. I wish we could go back to the days of shareware, when you could download (er, install from a coverdisk) a limited version of the game & thein either unlock it, or go & buy the full version. I also think that, to an extent we're victims of our own willingness to buy clones/sequels/etc (company A makes a new game, people love it & sales are obscene. Company A makes sequel, it's good, but not quite as good, but it still does even better 'cause more people buy it 'cause #1 was excellent. Companies B-F make very similar games, that do well & make a nice profit. Companies G-Z notice this & pump out some cheap rip-offs in order to maximise their profits).

 

Ultimately, capitalism/free market sucks & is doomed to inflicting #### like this on us until we mutate into some freakishly different people that are nice to each other (not stealing other people's work), inventive (creating lots of interesting games/films/songs) & not lazy SOBs (beating interesting games/films/songs into inane mass produced drivel 'cause it's easier).

I blame people. The hackers/pirates, the scared numpties in charge & the talentless people who yearn to create something unique/interesting, but can only copy something else. Ultimately, it's all peolpe's fault, and until people change, we're all ####ed.

[Schot 407]

Interesting dilemma... My initial thought on it is that naturally all softwares will come with some sort of copy protection. The distinction here I guess is how far Ascaron has gone by opting for Securom's latest and greatest. It does seem to be overkill. After a bit of researching it seems that some see copy protection as a way to secure not the game but rather the launch date sales and that kinda makes sense to me.

 

Not sure what the deal is with ownership of Sacred 2 is. Strikes me as a bit disconcerting in that we aren't buying a product but rather a license. I mean this is just a video game after all right? Buying a license makes sense to me with regards to an OS or say photoshop but a video game? Doesn't seem to jive but I don't know. Granted it has been asured that selling our Sacred 2 license is perfectly fine. Is this sounding strange at all? lol. Oh well. I'm not terribly concerned about possible complications due to DRM during installation. I really doubt there will be much at all.

 

Oh and to top it off this form of protection has a bonus which allows you to verify ownership automatically online. So noo need to try and decipher your serial key and type it out several times before getting it right. That's kinda nice I think.

 

The oooonly concern I worry about is whether the DRM will always be running in the background as long as I have the game installed. If there is one thing I can't stand it is unwanted processes. Grrr! I run a type ship around here and check my list of active processes fairly often. What I'm concerned about most with a possible DRM background process is that it could cause conflicts with other processes and softwares. And I hate troubleshooting when I have processes running that I'd rather not have in the first place...

[Llama8 8]

Not sure what the deal is with ownership of Sacred 2 is. Strikes me as a bit disconcerting in that we aren't buying a product but rather a license. I mean this is just a video game after all right? Buying a license makes sense to me with regards to an OS or say photoshop but a video game? Doesn't seem to jive but I don't know.

I'm not entirely sure whether that's legal or not, though it totally depends on the local interpretation. I thought I'd read something about that somewhere, but I can't remember... And in any event, just because an American judge views things one way, doesn't mean a British/French/German/etc judge would. Hell, as I understand it, judges within the same jurisdiction disagree all the time...

 

 

I run a type ship

 

You sure do.

[Schot 407]

I run a type ship

 

You sure do.

 

 

lol. Oh whatever!

 

As for selling your copy of Sacred 2 I got the impression that it would be ok to sell a bought copy of Sacred 2 given what Heiko had said on the SIF.

The license is transferable. You can sell your game with no problem.

More to that is that he submitted this information on an International forum soooo... I sure hope he's correct on all fronts.

[Genenut 8]

Guess I'll be waiting for the patched out version of the DRM.... this "activiation" crap is rediculous. Its why spore wont be under my tree this year (or any year until they get rid of this crap). I've had to reinstall sacred atleast 4 times in the last 2 years just on my system. On lord's its been another 2 .... I do not need to be calling customer service because I had to reinstall the game due to hardware problems, upgrades or a certain teenager wanna be hacker... .

 

With all due respect (and I do respect you), did you read the list in full?

 

Lately Llama the way I have had to reinstall software is due to wipe and reinstall of everything due to teenager totally screwing up a system. Lord has had to do it 3 times on his system. Since the install/reinstall ease is due to the registry keys remaining it wont be that simple for us. Thats why I think this stuff is crap. I wont buy software with this type of copy protection on it. I dont mind other types of protection but I think this limited number of activations stuff is stupid and that the ONLY people it stops are those who actually arent doing anything wrong and have a legitimate right to be installing and using the software. The hackers ALWAYS find a way around cp and this is no different.

 

And while I know ascaron has been around for a while , that is no guarentee that they will always be around. If they suddenly had problems and shut down all thier online stuff what happens to our software? Does it become a 50.00 coaster? Sometimes you dont have time to publish the patch to take out the cp before the company ceases to exist.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Genenut

[stubbie 21]

And while I know ascaron has been around for a while , that is no guarentee that they will always be around. If they suddenly had problems and shut down all thier online stuff what happens to our software? Does it become a 50.00 coaster?

 

At least it wont be as expensive as my (someday) full set of Guild Wars coasters (complete with DirectSong addons and extra character slots)

 

stubbs

[Llama8 8]

FYI guys, Heiko's posted some more, posts 96-98 on page 7 here.

 

[qutoe]Lately Llama the way I have had to reinstall software is due to wipe and reinstall of everything due to teenager totally screwing up a system. Lord has had to do it 3 times on his system. Since the install/reinstall ease is due to the registry keys remaining it wont be that simple for us.

 

Yup, I'm looking forward to Teddy doing stuff like that immensely!

 

Heiko's said that de-installation leaves the activation files on your PC (unless you choose the de-activate during un-installation) so you wouldn't have to re-activate in that example. If you have to reinstall Windows (& Sacred 2, obviously), either you wouldn't have to re-activate, or you can re-activate during re-install (which apparently takes ~10-60 seconds, nothing compared to the install time for S1). It might be that you would have to de-activate the install that got wiped, I don't know. The process sounds like you "just" have to type in your cd-key while connected to the net (the quickest/easiest way, or do a manual activation online on a different pc & then type in the activation code separately).

 

But from what Heiko's said, they have done as much as they could to design the CP/DRM to be as painless as they can make it, which is a lot more than significantly larger companies have done (EA). No CP/DRM will be perfect (ie, stop pirates from playing an illegal download, but not impact legitimate users), but to Ascaron's credit, they have at least tried. On paper, it sounds like a good compromise.

 

 

And while I know ascaron has been around for a while , that is no guarentee that they will always be around. If they suddenly had problems and shut down all thier online stuff what happens to our software? Does it become a 50.00 coaster? Sometimes you dont have time to publish the patch to take out the cp before the company ceases to exist.

 

It's always possible that a company goes titsup overnight, but it's not like Ascaron are a brand new company with their first game (Flagship/Hellgate), nor are they trying to create a game that's beyond their reach or trying to combine to many different things (Flagship/Hellgate). Let's not worry about stuff that's not on the horizon at the moment (not that we'd likely know about it if it were). I understand your concern that you'll have wasted your money if they do go bust, and while that's true, I don't think it's a likely situation at all.

[stubbie 21]

I understand your concern that you'll have wasted your money if they do go bust, and while that's true, I don't think it's a likely situation at all.

 

Certainly a bold statement considering all the great gaming companies that have gone bust

 

stubbs

Edited September 14, 2008 by stubbie

[Llama8 8]

I understand your concern that you'll have wasted your money if they do go bust, and while that's true, I don't think it's a likely situation at all.

 

Certainly a bold statement considering all the great gaming companies that have gone bust

 

stubbs

 

True, but "all" they have to do is remvoe the copy protection from the game, and that's something they could do before hand (or maybe with each patch, prepare a CP'd & non-CP'd version). It's also assuming that none of the publishers would step in & either pay for that to be done after the fact or pay to keep the activation servers working (when Flagship went under, Namco paid & as I understand it, are still paying for the MP servers for Hellgate). So I don't think it's as bleak as Genenut is making out, it may be a bold statement, but it's not without support, or precedent.

[Genenut 8]

but beyond all that the more software makers use this type of cp and we continue to buy the products the more they no longer think we object to it and more will use it. Most game makers wont try as hard as ascaron to make it user friendly.

 

Its a bit like here in the states the lovely "patriot act" that gave the govt to right to request anyones library usage records (ie computers and what books youve checked out) for any reason. If no one objects to things like that the more our civil rights get eroded.

 

This type of CP erodes our rights as legal paying gamers. they just keep chiping away at them until we have none. They have taken away our right to make a legal backup copy of software with all the cp a few years ago making it impossible to make a copy and now they are taking away our ability to install and play the software at any time or multiple times on our own computer.

 

and a wipe and reinstall of the OS will remove all the files allowing "re-activiation" of the software as the process formats the drive and all data for everything is lost at that time. So if I have to wipe and reinstall the OS wice I'm out of activations it would appear.

 

so I wont be buying (atleast anytime soon) a game with this type of cp on it. I will not encourage the makers to use a form of cp that ONLY hurts those who have a legal right to use the software in the first place.

Edited September 14, 2008 by Genenut

[Llama8 8]

I agree that copy protection/DRM in general is slowly eating away at consumers rights, and that the most effective way is to not buy whatever's got the CP/DRM that you find offensive, and let the company know.

 

Tom has clarified what happens if your hardware goes titsup & you want to reinstall Sacred 2, in this post.

 

Situation: your whole system doesnt work anymore, all data is lost, no chance to get anything back to work...and you have set up your 2 activations at the same time but your other PC is not in your house. You bought a new system, have Sacred2 installed but can not activate...

 

1. you type www.unlock.sacred2.com into your browser...press enter.

 

2. you type your Serial code from the back of the manual and request from this window the requester code.

 

3. you copy and paste the given requester code into the de-actication field.

 

Result = one of the to installations is REVOKED from the server. You now are able to activate Sacred2 onn your new computer.

 

He's also said that the wording on the unlock page is WIP & is going to be looked at (and wasn't meant to be released to the public prior to Sacred 2's release). So in the situation when your son totalled your pc, you'll be able to revoke that activation by going online. You (& most people, myself included) don't like CP/DRM, but at least Ascaron are trying to make it's impact on legit players like us as minimal as possible.

[podgie_bear 184]

I am not prepared to put up with this type of CP crap either. Stuff them! I'll wait until they either remove it, or it comes out on budget without it! I will not encourage them to do this sort of thing, or even worse in the future! There are other games I can spend my money on instead which don't expect me to put up with this!

[stubbie 21]

Llama8's post was very informative.

While I don't like the whole idea of activation, it seems that Ascaron is trying to make it as painless as they can.

 

If Ascaron stays true and keeps their activation customer service easily accessible then I guess I don't have a problem.

I mean really............if all it takes is a email with confirmation of my cd key.........well I can live with that.

 

I really want Sacred 2 and after thinking about it I am going to get it when its released even with this activation stuff.

But I am concerned that the SecuRom program may cause me problems with my pc.

 

So what I intend to do is make an image backup of my hard drive before installing Sacred 2.

Then if I start having SecuRom issues I will simply load the backup.

 

Ascaron have said that they will probably remove the DRM in a few years anyway.

That means I will be able to at least play the single player game for as long as I want.

 

That is something that cannot happen with MMORPGS.

When the servers go, so does your game..........and those games cost lots of money too.

 

stubbs

Edited September 16, 2008 by stubbie

[Genenut 8]

I agree that copy protection/DRM in general is slowly eating away at consumers rights, and that the most effective way is to not buy whatever's got the CP/DRM that you find offensive, and let the company know.

 

I tried today but Carolyn has closed the thread over in SIF. I sent her a PM asking for a new thread or to pass my comments on to ascaron so we'll see. But mine and others pocketbook's/wallet's will make the loudest statement in the long run.

 

The fact that spore's drm got cracked so fast shows its not effective and does not justify the reasoning for using this form of copy protection on sacred 2.

 

I firmly plan to wait until the DRM is removed or changed to a different form of CP.

[Llama8 8]

Email the publisher Genenut, they ultimately decide on what CP/DRM to use, and copy Ascaron as well (won't do any harm).

[gogoblender 3,077]

Gene, I know what you're saying. And in fact, I've written some bits on other forums about the transformation of consumer rights. It's like the things we want today, are so easily stolen with all the pirates around. And while I feel kind of weirded out sometimes, that it seems like noone wants to sell anything anymore, but instead "lease" or sell me a "right" to it...it looks like that's the way that digital merchandise is being sold today.

 

So...what to do? Well, in the case of Sacred, this is a game I've been waiting for, more than four years in fact. I have liked the way that Ascaron has does business with me in the past, I've enjoyed their product, have respected their support, and more importantly, have benefited from the community it's spawned.

 

I guess in this case, I'm going to "breathe" and just buy it and see how it works out. I guess you could say that in this case, I'm going to have have to make a personal allowance on my side by giving Ascaron the benefit of the doubt and hoping that the measures they've put in place aren't going to inconvenience me too greatly.

 

I'm crossing my fingers on that (plus my toes!).

 

I also hope that maybe anyone here who has gotten miffed by the idea of this type of copy protection at least give the demo a try? I was lucky enough to have peeps help me with getting it going.

 

And yes, the demo is a gem.

 

So yeah, I'm having to suck down another erosion of rights perhaps... but I think I'm going to give Ascaron a bit of trust for this, and hopefully, my faith won't be misplaced. Tom Heiko has, through his words on the SIF, at least convinced me that he's aware of our concerns, and that the copy protection in place is not as severe as many people think it could be.

 

Here's to hoping.

 

And here's to really hoping that as many of us as possible, as close friends as we've become over the years here at DarkMatters, can hopefully take this next step together.

 

I really do want to play with you guys.

 

 

gogo

[stubbie 21]

All you said gogo

 

I want this game so badly too that I am going to suffer the copy protection. (Mind you if the protection causes me any grief Ascaron will quickly know about it! )

Sorry to let the cause down but this game is just way too cool.

 

I preordered my CE yesterday from my local EB store after playing the demo.

 

Now I just have to patiently wait for the game to actually be released.

 

stubbs

[Llama8 8]

I've not had any problems with the beta (which uses way more CP than the release).

[gogoblender 3,077]

That's great new actually Llama, and thanks for the info. With that on my mind, I'm hoping, no confident that the CP on Sacred 2 is going to be reasonable.

 

Thanks!

 

gogo