Is there a limit for "damage of enraged player" ?

[Qlio 3]

Hello, I have a little question, what is the max value of "Damage of enraged player +x%"?

Im using 2x Swords of Blood Dryads and my inquisitor buff lvl66.9, overall I should have around 780% damage of enraged player, but then my hp drops to 35% left, I only see my 3k attack turning to only 6k, is there some limit?

780% means like 7.8x dmg, shouldnt my dmg from 3k turn to 21k?

 

I just thought, maybe its because I have around +300% damage from blacksmith forges, enraged damage doesnt stack with normal damage bonus?

Edited March 31, 2009 by gogoblender

[Schot 407]

I don't think there is a limit but my guess is that damage of enraged players is applied to your base damage before other damage modifiers are applied. gogo and I did a bit of testing on this modifier a few days ago and and with only 280% enraged his damage doubled at about half health. Full health he did a max of about 1700 damage and 1/4 health he did max 3800. From that test it appeared to me that enraged could be a very good modifier. What are you attacking with in the test you did?

[Qlio 3]

any mobs, but then I tried pvp against seraphim... my friend had reflection, and I suicided without haveing time to press hp potion lol.

 

about modifier "Oponents level for death blow", does it work like this, I attack someone, he reflects this attack and I have 64% death blow, and my hp is below 64%, will I damage myself with x2 dmg of this attack?

[Schot 407]

For death blow it goes like this. When the opponent's health falls below the percent of death blow you have you will do double damage. So if you have 50% death blow then you will do double damage when the enemy health goes below 50%.

[gogoblender 3,071]

Hello, I have a little question, what is the max value of "Damage of enraged player +x%"?

Im using 2x Swords of Blood Dryads and my inquisitor buff lvl66.9, overall I should have around 780% damage of enraged player, but then my hp drops to 35% left, I only see my 3k attack turning to only 6k, is there some limit?

780% means like 7.8x dmg, shouldnt my dmg from 3k turn to 21k?

 

I just thought, maybe its because I have around +300% damage from blacksmith forges, enraged damage doesnt stack with normal damage bonus?

 

 

My level 73 seraphim is using the Enraged Players mod now. I think the problem is that, for this level, with this class, we're simply unable to get enough of the mod on. As Brad says, there's an improvement in damage...but at quite a cost of hp. She was using a pistol though...probably better for her to DW the Blood Dryad swords and work with them as base, and then add to the armor from there. Best percentage of Enraged I was able to find for her was using Plat smith sockets...and even with that, her damage wasn't anything I couldn't get from using Death blow or Crit...without risking all the hp.

 

We'll have to experiment more.

 

 

gogo

[Qlio 3]

For death blow it goes like this. When the opponent's health falls below the percent of death blow you have you will do double damage. So if you have 50% death blow then you will do double damage when the enemy health goes below 50%.

yes I understand that, but what about reflect and damage to myself? opponent had full hp, by my hp was below, could it be that reflected dmg was doubled on me?

[Llama8 8]

Gogo/Schot, don't forget that there may be diminishing returns kicking in, so if he's DWing 2x ~390% swords, he's not getting the 780% he was expecting.

 

Qlio, I'm not sure whether the Deathblow would take your health, since you're the "new" target after the damage is reflected. I'm inclined to say that it would, since the damage is done to you & the Deathblow bonus is added after resistance, mitigation, etc.

[Qlio 3]

I have done some more testing with enrage. my lvl80 inquisitor, no tactic lore, no other +damage modifiers, no armor, 0.1% survival bonus, non buffed, with a spear and fists, tried testing how enrage scales my damage. I had 400% enrage from buff, and buff also gives fire damage, which doesnt scale together. And I came to a conclusion that enrage only affects plain damage, its like your normal damage + enrage % boost, + damage% modifiers calculated from base damage too.

I find this very useless, if you lets say have good gears forged with +damage% modifiers or other source of + damage, you might see something like 5000 damage in stat window, even with 400% enrage it wont turn to 20.000, if you remove all damage modifiers and have like 2000 damage, then multiply it with enrage % and then add additional modifiers (+250% damage in this case), it goes something like your 2000 attack is increased by 400% enrage to 8000, and then add another increase from +damage% modifier, 2000 is increased by 250% which gives +2500, and you end up with only 11.500 damage.

I am so disapointed with this, I was playing inquisitor always on a line of death and in most cases seeing my damage multiply only by x2 then it supposed to be x7...

And theres no dimishing, its beeing displayed in bonus window, if there is any dimishing it would show. With this said, I will probably leave my inquisitor alone...

[Zinsho 0]

Qlio:

 

If your +% values are correct then your results are wrong:

+400% Enraged would mean *5 or 10,000 damage, adding +250% to the base would be *3.5 or 7,000 for a total of 17,000

 

I would really have to test this myself I suppose, or have more complete data, but with a bit more information the math behind it probably could be worked out. (Or at least whether it's additive or multiplicative).

 

The values really needed to do the comparisons would be (preferably with a mono-elemental weapon)

Listed Damage with the equipped weapon without any gear on

Listed Damage with the equipped weapon with all gear on.

Total +Damage% from gear, ideally without any +X-X physical damage rings being worn.

+Damage% value from the Tactics Lore tooltip with your gear on.

Total +% Enraged from gear/from Buff (you'd end up with 2 values in the Sigma Tooltip if you have both gear and buff)

I can't remember off the top of my head if your listed damage increases as you take damage from the Enraged Mod. If it does the only additional values needed would be your listed damage at half health and at 25% health (or as close as you can manage, so current hp and what your total is), of course below 25% health has no additional benefit so the 25% value should be more easily obtained.

If it doesn't, I'd need in game damage values for full health, 50% health and 25% (or less) health, preferably non-critical hits. Resistances do make it harder to calculate, however if it's all the same enemy type it should be fairly constant.

 

If you'd be able to help this'd be much appreciated, however I should be able to find some way to do the calculations on my own, however I won't be able to build a toon up to do so for a week or two since I'm at the end of term, so doing quick calculations is straightforward, but building up the toon to do so takes more time.

 

However you also have to remember that you get the full benefit of enraged when you are at the minimum hp percentage allowed by gear or by buff. Since they seem to be the same modifier it would appear that the threshold for full damage is 25% HP.

 

If we're lucky Ascaron will have left the increase as a linear function, so that at 50% health you'd be getting 2/3 of your increase. I believe WIDD (or enraged in Sacred 2) was a function that was never clearly identified as far as what portion of the bonus you got at what point in time.

 

The inquisitor (and this mod for that matter) have interested me for a while, so at some point in time I'll have to look at it just to get a better idea of how it can be worked into a build.

 

I've done some testing with Gogo's help and can already confirm that +Damage% from gear is additive with Tactics Lore (or Aspect Lores for the relevant aspects). Since this is the case, socketing +damage will not always be beneficial when compared to the total bonus that Tactics Lore is offering.

 

edit: thanks Qlio, it froze while posting

Edited March 31, 2009 by Zinsho

[Qlio 3]

uh... I think you copy pasted it twice =)

anyway, then I was testing my dmg, I was naked, and the way damage increased did not please me...

what I mean about enrage and +damage% was that enrage and +damage% are calculated independantly and then are summed up, which makes it much lower attack than you suppose to get.... in example, I had a dual wield inquisitor, it was showing 3.6-4.4k attack in stats window, with full enrage bonus and I had around 550% enrage,but with 25% hp left (I use that mod to increase to 35% hp) my dmg went only up to 6.6k. The thing is that my "3.6-4.4k " had been increased by around 250% damage that I got from niobium blacksmith, but enrage doesnt take "3.6-4.4k" it takes base damage value and then it sums it up. So +damage % is good only to add small part of damage compared to what you get from enrage. I think STR might have bigger impact because it increases base damage right?

 

I didnt mark exact numbers, but I definetly saw my attack going up more than 5 times, so I guess it scales linearly.

[Zinsho 0]

I can guarantee this part of the equation for damage, and based on what you'll saying I'll project the Enraged portion:

 

Damage = (1 + %Tactics Lore + %Damage) * Base Numbers

If enraged is working how it seems to based on what you said:

Damage = (1 + %Tactics Lore + %Damage + %Enraged) * Base Numbers.

 

I'm omitting attributes, because the values don't seem to make sense, based on the data Gogo got me... if you really want to see the full data I can format it for forums later, but suffice to say the results worked out to:

 

611 dex, or +555 damage (this was off by a couple points, he leveled up before giving me the dex value, so it'd be +3*SB bonus, in other words fairly close).

 

To address the remaining issue of Dexterity. From the above formula the Unmodified Dam-

age would be 333.88 - 427.24. In an attempt to determine where Dexterity might fit in I also

determined the following

• The difference between Base Damage and Unmodified damage is 146.88 - 188.24

• Unmodified Damage / Base Damage has a ratio of 1.79, for both min and max damage

• Initial Damage / Base Damage has a ratio of 3.25 for min and 3.26 for max (rounding

issue I suspect)

3.25 - (1+Tactics Lore) = 1.4303 or 143.03%

3.26 - (1+Tactics Lore) = 1.4342 or 143.42%

If any of these values could be easily related to the +555 bonus from Dexterity it could be in-

corporated into the result, however I can see no real way to incorporate it. Therefore Attribute

bonuses must be set aside for the time being until someone can determine how it fits in.

 

I am quite certain of my calculations, the values I obtained theoretically through my calculations (when he added blacksmith arts for damage modifiers) were 99.6% and 99.87% of the actual in game listed values. As far as I'm concerned this is close enough to qualify as being the same result disregarding minimal differences due to User Interface Rounding vs underlying values.

 

I suspect the limited 'effect' of enraged for you stems from a very high +%Damage from smith arts/gear, along with a high Tactics Lore. I'm not saying enraged shouldn't multiply the damage modifiers, but if it adds then you can use your HP total as a replacement for +%Damage and even for tactics/Aspect Lores when trying to maximize your damage.

 

As to it being linear, it's not as simple as just looking whether it increases and when.

It should increase every time you take damage although not always noticeably.

 

If it was linear, then at ~2/3 health you should be getting half the benefit you get at 35% health (in your case). If you didn't have the mod on your buff it'd be the same as saying:

At 50% health, you get 2/3 of the increase.

 

If it was say.. exponential:

at 50% Health (max at 25%), you'd get ~50% of the bonus, at 25% you'd get 100%.

With the buff modified it'd be: At ~56% health you get 50% bonus, at 35% health you get 100%.

(I'm not using a truly exponential curve, I'm just giving a general idea of what sort of distinction you'd notice)

[gogoblender 3,071]

Gonna shelve my seraphim with this mod. She's ranged, I'm not sure I can get enough Enraged on her. Maybe one day will attempt retry with duel...the percentage enraged coming of the blood dryads swords is sick.

 

My gut feeling on this?

 

I think I'm of Qlio's mind... it's nothing as good a mod as it was in Sacred... Better mods with less risk imo

 

 

gogo

 

 

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