Item quality levels vs EP/MF/Bargaining

[Antitrust 32]

Re-posting my SIF topic here, maybe it'll be of some use still All info was tested before Ice & Blood, so there could be differences in the expansion.

 

I've posted many times what I suspected about the general concepts of this issue. Thanks to the research made by Cthulu and the recently published details of MF and EP, many things fell into place, so I can explain it in less vague terms. Any improvements or corrections are welcome.

 

There are 16 different item quality levels or tiers. They start with "tier 00" (junk items), and gradually improve to "tier 15". You can see just how better or worse the tiers are, compared to tier 01 (normal white items).

 

00 (75% quality) - junk items - no bonuses (example pic)

 

01 (100% quality), 02 (102% quality), 03 (104% quality) - white items - 1 bonus (example pic)

 

04 (106% quality)- white items - 2 bonuses

 

05 (108% quality) - blue items - 2 bonuses (example pic)

 

06 (110% quality), 07 (112.5% quality), 08 (115% quality) - blue items - 3 bonuses (example pic)

 

09 (117.5% quality), 10 (120% quality), 11 (123% quality), 12 (126% quality) - yellow items - 4 bonuses from now on, special item models become available (example pic)

 

13 (129% quality), 14 (132% quality), 15 (135% quality) - yellow, set and unique items (mostly sets and uniques are dropped when these three qualities are chosen).

 

Non-quest legendary items should be in the last three tiers, probably in 15 (unless they have special rules, which is unlikely). They are so rare probably due to their low number, compared to the hundreds of sets and uniques. They might also have some sort of a rarity value assigned, making them even harder to drop even if the high tiers are selected. Or they might be only dropped by bosses or monsters of specific rank.

 

Obviously the tier 15 has an extremely low chance to be picked, while 01 and such are picked very often.

 

Bonuses

Each quality level allows a specific number of bonus slots (number of bonuses the item can have). Each bronze/silver/gold socket will occupy a bonus slot if the item becomes socketed. E.g. a white item of quality 03 will either have a bonus or a socket. A yellow item will always have 4 bonuses, or 3 bonuses and a socket etc. There can be up to two sockets on a random item.

 

There seem to be some very rare exceptions to this, like rare items with 3 bonuses. There should be a logical explanation though (maybe the item got some extra elemental damage that counts as a bonus and is not displayed, or maybe a bonus occupies two slots?).

 

Differences between qualities

So what is the difference between a 09 yellow item and a 15 one? It seems that some bonuses can't spawn (or at least very unlikely to) on the lower-tier items, and some bonuses seem to be considered "better" than others. There doesn't seem to be a difference in actual bonus percentages/values, so a 09 yellow item will have the same e.g. "chance to evade %" as a 15 one (assuming the same item level).

 

This means that high-quality rares are more likely to be good items (from player's point of view).

 

Lightsabers are in tier 12 btw, which is why high level chars have difficulties shopping them (see below).

 

 

Skills/MF

 

Enhanced Perception and "chance to find valuables" (and the side effects of Survival Bonus, map revealed etc) affect the tier from which the item is dropped. They increase the chance that the item is dropped from a higher tier. This specifically lowers the chance to get a low-tier item, improving the quality of the drops. (for original explanation by Llama8 see here)

 

It is especially effective on uncommon monsters (champions/bosses etc). Some monsters have limits on what item tiers they can drop, e.g. some of them can drop from tier 09 and up, so even a small quality improvement is actually rather significant. Cthulu's research at Dark Matters addresses specifically this issue in details.

 

All monsters are supposed to have a chance to drop items of any tier above minimum, though some monsters can't drop certain items (according to their drop lists or whatever).

 

 

Bargaining works just like EP, but it has diminishing returns that depend on character level.

 

Characters without Bargaining skill will be offered items from tier 06 and lower. Bargaining increases this limit, so merchants can offer higher level items, up to tier 12. This limit is the reason why set and unique items cannot be bargained (they start at tier 13).

 

Increasing Bargaining will gradually increase the quality level, reducing the amount of low quality offers. When tier 12 is reached, any additional skill points invested seem to only increase the amount of offered yellow items. If Bargaining is high enough, white/blue items will not be offered.

 

Bargaining Mastery should push the minimum/maximum allowed quality of a quest reward higher (most likely by 1-2 tiers, though it might depend on the skill level).

 

 

The skill level that is required to unlock the higher quality levels depends on character level (the exact formulas are unknown). Low-level characters can reach tier 12 with just a few skill points, and can even get to the point where mostly yellow items are offered. High-level characters require more investment.

 

 

Below an example of character levels 15 and 200.

 

Level 15:

 

 

Level 200:

* You can't get enough skill bonuses to unlock these

 

 

Patch 2.40 reintroduced the requirement of 75-hard-point mastery, which has a direct impact on achievable quality levels. The breakpoints are actually different for skill level 75 and above, you need much more skill points without hard-mastery. Without 75 hard points in the skill, the quality levels you can unlock are very limited at high levels, so yellow item ratio will be lower (you only see an increase after you hit a quality level breakpoint). Console users might be using an older patch, so this might not apply to them.

 

At high levels (until about char level 150), soft Bargaining can unlock up to quality 10 (you need more than 600 skill points for that). After that, only 09 can be unlocked without hard-mastery. By the time you're level 200, you won't even see yellow items at merchants (unless you can get a suit with about 600 skill points, which is possible but a bit difficult). No more 1-hard-point shopping sprees...

 

Skill points between the breakpoints are totally useless, so don't bother making a full shopping suit unless you're sure you can hit the next breakpoint.

 

 

Here are the early-game breakpoints:

Char level	Breakpoint	Next breakpoint		Final breakpoint
_____________________________________________________________________

20		14 (10)		18 (11)			24 (12)

30		22 (10)		30 (11)			40 (12)

40		31 (10)		44 (11)			61 (12)

50		42 (10)		62 (11)			89 (12)

60		55 (10)		85 (11)			129 (12)

70		70 (10)	   115 (11)			190 (12)

 

 

Here are the breakpoints for a level 80-90 character (both with or without mastery):

clvl 80

soft
	89 (10)		156 (11)		297 (12)

hard
	79 (10)		101 (11)		132 (12)
_____________________________________________________________________

clvl 90

soft
60 (9)		113 (10)	218 (11)		529 (12)

hard
		   88 (10)	117 (11)		167 (12)

 

 

Assuming you master the skill, here are more breakpoints for those that are interested.

Char level	Breakpoint	Next breakpoint		Final breakpoint
_____________________________________________________________________

100		98 (10)	 136 (11)		196 (12)

110		109 (10)	158 (11)		247 (12)

120		122 (10)	187 (11)		322 (12)

130		137 (10)	224 (11)		444 (12)

140		154 (10)	274 (11)		670-680 (12)

150		175 (10)	345 (11)		1300-1400 (12)


160		201 (10)	453 (11)		5000-10000 (12)

161		204 (10)	467 (11)

162		206 (10)	482 (11)

163		209 (10)	497 (11)


170		232 (10)	638 (11)

180		272 (10)	1029 (11)		30000+ (12)

190		323 (10)	2397 (11)

200		159 (09)	394 (10)

[locolagarto 15]

Awesome, I hope everybody gets as much use out of this topic as I do.

[gogoblender 3,304]

Finally, here for reference with all the other guides. Thanks Trust, this one's another cornerstone from you.

 

 

gogo

[Flooxim 50]

Thanks a lot for this detailed guide! This is an awesome piece of work!

 

 

Max

[Ryanrocker 200]

Holy smokes is this guide good or what? I now finally understand why low level bargainers are way more effective than high level ones.

[Dragon Brother 620]

Is there anyway to find out if the breakpoints changed with ice and blood anti?

[Groosum 1]

Thank-you for this awesome info which I didn't know or completely understand.

 

An assumption on my part So : -

 

Is it best to say then that you have a shopper based upon lvls 20 -70 maxed out, go shopping with to get the items you want, then a separate shopper at level 150 + to get the jewels and use a High level Blacksmith to socket the item found by the low level shopper, thus making the item higher level ? Thoughts ?

[Schot 415]

Good stuff Antitrust! You honour us with your works.

[Antitrust 32]

Is there anyway to find out if the breakpoints changed with ice and blood anti?

Yeah if you're on PC and can edit the text files.

 

In balance.txt, change the ZRareBonusamount for each quality so that you can control how many bonuses are shown at each quality level. Change TraderOffer_MaxLifetime to a low value so you can just run around starting island to quickly reset vendor inventories. That way you can see which qualities are offered at which breakpoints.

 

You can also change the amount of skillpoints that gear gives you, so you dont waste time on making a bargaining suit. Make a single relic give you like 100 Bargaining, then simply put enough points into the skill to reach a breakpoint. That should be the name = "sb_addskill_IND_trader" in the blueprint.txt.

 

You don't have to check every breakpoint Just a few of them.

 

You can also ignore the above and just do a rough estimate, though it's less accurate that way

[locolagarto 15]

Thank-you for this awesome info which I didn't know or completely understand.

 

An assumption on my part So : -

 

Is it best to say then that you have a shopper based upon lvls 20 -70 maxed out, go shopping with to get the items you want, then a separate shopper at level 150 + to get the jewels and use a High level Blacksmith to socket the item found by the low level shopper, thus making the item higher level ? Thoughts ?

 

 

On PC a level 70 item with level 150 gems socketed will become level 150 and unusable by a low level char. (unlike Consoles, where this practice is widely used).

[Rusto 0]

Much appreciated Antitrust, handy info.

[Etherian 76]

While reading this, I recieved the vision. The "Fog of War" has been unvailed. 90% map revealed. WHOA fantastic information.

 

This thread is priceless for those making a bargain network.

 

Thanks Antitrust extremely insightful...

 

I remain, Etherian

[Demonic1 0]

I'm currently planning to make my first shopper but was wondering when to stop leveling. I only plan to purchase rings/amulets, I'll obtain the gear with the character themselves. Would a level 200 get better quality 10 level rings/amulets than a level 100-120 can get for quality 12? I'd think the answer is yes but want to make sure before investing that much time in leveling to find out otherwise. I play on the ps3 if that matters any.

[essjayehm 58]

I'm currently planning to make my first shopper but was wondering when to stop leveling. I only plan to purchase rings/amulets, I'll obtain the gear with the character themselves. Would a level 200 get better quality 10 level rings/amulets than a level 100-120 can get for quality 12? I'd think the answer is yes but want to make sure before investing that much time in leveling to find out otherwise. I play on the ps3 if that matters any.

 

Jedi mind edit: Welcome to Dark Matters, Demonic1!

 

Good question 8)

 

This exact type of question I have often pondered. The amount of time required to get from 120 to 200, IMO, would never be worth doing if you're primarily concerned with obtaining high-level jewellery for socketing into low-level equipment. I've only heard (but not sure) that allskills stops around +11 or so, and those start appearing in the level 120-range as far as I know.

 

Short answer would've been mis-leading... of course level 200 jewellery will be better "quality" since the stats will be higher... but you may not see every modifier @ tier 10, but tier 12 will have every mod available. Which ones appear at which tiers, I do not know. Combined with the amount of time it takes to get those extra 80 levels, makes going to 200 a matter of pride rather than practicality.

Edited June 30, 2010 by essjayehm

[Demonic1 0]

Good point on the mods available, I forgot about that. Now to decide on the HE build I want to use for my second character.

[Ryanrocker 200]

GAH! Do I have the worst bargaining luck in the world or something? My level 2 bargainer is in platnium with level 13 bargaining. My goal was to shop LL% shurikens. Does anyone know what tier those fall in? I'd have thought with a crazy amount of bargaining I'd be seeing them all over the place To say the least I'm a bit frustrated, and need some help on the bargaining issue.

[Dragon Brother 620]

You wont find them until item level 12 or 13. So a shopper at those levels is the minimum you'll need. Lowest level shopper to find them might be approx. level 10, but I'd use one a bit higher to make it a bit easier.

[Etherian 76]

GAH! Do I have the worst bargaining luck in the world or something? My level 2 bargainer is in platnium with level 13 bargaining. My goal was to shop LL% shurikens. Does anyone know what tier those fall in? I'd have thought with a crazy amount of bargaining I'd be seeing them all over the place To say the least I'm a bit frustrated, and need some help on the bargaining issue.

 

My first thought Ryan, for a level 2 char to have level 13 bargain doesnt seem high enough.

 

Example: on my personal account, level 20 shopper has level 86 bargain...level 50 shopper has level 139 bargain.

 

To obtain high lvls of bargaining took hours of real time shopping for the gear. Also, ask around and try to get your level 2 into Niob. Superior gear in Niob vs. Plat.

 

Also, those %LL shurikens are tricky little stars. Very hard to come by, extremely rare.

 

Even with very high level bargaining vs. character level, it may take hours of real time to merely find just 1 shuriken.

 

Hope this helps...

 

I remain, Etherian

[Dragon Brother 620]

GAH! Do I have the worst bargaining luck in the world or something? My level 2 bargainer is in platnium with level 13 bargaining. My goal was to shop LL% shurikens. Does anyone know what tier those fall in? I'd have thought with a crazy amount of bargaining I'd be seeing them all over the place To say the least I'm a bit frustrated, and need some help on the bargaining issue.

 

My first thought Ryan, for a level 2 char to have level 13 bargain doesnt seem high enough.

 

Example: on my personal account, level 20 shopper has level 86 bargain...level 50 shopper has level 139 bargain.

 

To obtain high lvls of bargaining took hours of real time shopping for the gear. Also, ask around and try to get your level 2 into Niob. Superior gear in Niob vs. Plat.

 

Also, those %LL shurikens are tricky little stars. Very hard to come by, extremely rare.

 

Even with very high level bargaining vs. character level, it may take hours of real time to merely find just 1 shuriken.

 

Hope this helps...

 

I remain, Etherian

 

For a level 2 toon you need very few points in bargaining to access the highest tier gear. As anti wrote above, a level 15 toon needs only 17points into bargaining to access tier 12, the highest. Any extra points simply increasesd the number of gold items at the expense of non gold ones. For a level 2, ~10 points is all that is needed for all gold. In this instance, it is simply a matter of %LL shurikens not spawning at such low levels. At higher levels, yeah, more points always works

[Ryanrocker 200]

You wont find them until item level 12 or 13. So a shopper at those levels is the minimum you'll need. Lowest level shopper to find them might be approx. level 10, but I'd use one a bit higher to make it a bit easier.

 

Hey there DB your findings are prob very accurate. I've got 17 bargaining on the level 2 and the items are still relatively the same quality. Are you positve about level 10? Or is it even higher? I can get the shopper up to level 10 if that's what I need to do for a LL% weapon to spawn. Are the LL% weapons in the "Special Offer" category or is that only lightsabers?

[Grumpy Old Wizard 0]

You wont find them until item level 12 or 13. So a shopper at those levels is the minimum you'll need. Lowest level shopper to find them might be approx. level 10, but I'd use one a bit higher to make it a bit easier.

 

Hey there DB your findings are prob very accurate. I've got 17 bargaining on the level 2 and the items are still relatively the same quality. Are you positve about level 10? Or is it even higher? I can get the shopper up to level 10 if that's what I need to do for a LL% weapon to spawn. Are the LL% weapons in the "Special Offer" category or is that only lightsabers?

 

I use a level 15 shopper to find LL% shrieken and LL% two-handed swords.

[Dragon Brother 620]

Already met ya and chatted ingame, but for anyone else. Min level shuriken with %LL is at level 12 or 13. So you need a level 10 or higher shopper to be able to buy gear at this level. Since boosting toons to ~lvl15 is easy, I'd suggest a level 15 shopper