Sacred 2: Attributes & Derived Statistics

[staylost 0]

I have been reviewing the information on this board and on the Wiki for the past couple of weeks in anticipation of the Xbox release of Sacred 2: Fallen Angel. After finally purchasing it and enjoying it I, being one of the stat enthused types, quickly began wondering what the actual effects of my character's development choices were. That quickly brought me to the most basic part of each character: their attributes. Sacred Wiki, as has been mentioned before, does not give much information under attributes (even less than Ascaron!) nor on the mechanics behind the unlisted attribute gain rates.

 

In response to this lack of quick knowledge I quickly ran a no-skill SW through six levels and took down the reported effects (I don't actually know if the in game stat sheet is correct) of his attributes against the number of attribute points invested. I found that things like melee damage+ for Strength was an added percentage of equiped weapon damage and other things, like spell resistance, were simply equal to their governing attribute. To further complicate the result, while melee damage+ for Strength was easily understood, I was completely ignorant of how spell resistance works. Now hoping to add what little I had gained as a start in the Wiki I have posted a tiny bit to the attribute Willpower.

 

But how was I going to explain spell resistance, the concept? I looked it up and was only able to find the skill by the same name.

 

The original Sacred has an unused stub for the derived statistic spell resistance but Sacred 2 does not. Were would the best place to talk about this be? On the skill page? On the Willpower page? Or should a seperate page be created for each derived statistic?

 

 

 

I also noticed that stamina's combat art renewal effect had odd changes per level that did not match the attribute gain. The reported values certainly weren't linear. Does the charlvl modify certain derived statistics as well? Or maybe this is a typo on the in game stat sheet?

 

Perhaps this is the least glamorous side of Sacred (how much of a difference do our attributes make when compared to our skills or combat arts?) but I encourage anyone to post the formulas for derived statistic gain/attribute point here and on the Wiki. I would also welcome any discussion about the mechanics of attributes here.

 

And since this is my first post I read in the forum rules that I'm supposed to debate religion or something here? Instead of that I'll just say that if this has already been brought up, feel free to move this under the appropriate existing topic.

 

Thanks!

[Knuckles 904]

Hi and welcome staylost

 

I'm not a big number cruncher but we have several member who would be very interested in anything you discover

 

And since this is my first post I read in the forum rules that I'm supposed to debate religion or something here? Instead of that I'll just say that if this has already been brought up, feel free to move this under the appropriate existing topic.

 

Think I need to re-read forum rules I don't know if you were kidding around but religion and politics are one of the few subjects that are basically off-limits

[gogoblender 3,071]

That quickly brought me to the most basic part of each character: their attributes. Sacred Wiki, as has been mentioned before, does not give much information under attributes (even less than Ascaron!) nor on the mechanics behind the unlisted attribute gain rates.

 

 

heh, that's because Ascaron keeps the formulaes secret ^^ It's one of the charms of the game ?

 

 

Since the game has been released there has been no breakthroughs on the attributes. A lot of math aficionados have tried, but noone has gotten any sold info penned about attributes.

 

Noone even cracked attributes from the original Sacred as well ^^

 

They are complex numbers and seem to be related to many things, especially survival bonus.

 

We try not to publish theories on the wiki however, it's only tested proven info that can be verified by us. This forum is best place to publish statistical proofs or data first before publishing it on wiki, especially regarding important data like this.

 

So far Attributes in wiki are baseline info only because that is pretty much all that anyone is certain of, but if you're able to add more that is "fact" go right on ahead ^^

 

I'm happy you're interested in Attributes, I know Schot and some others here are a big fan of their mysteries, hopefully he'll see this thread and offer some insight.

 

And maybe one day... a calculator ^^

 

Cheers, and welcome to the forum and the wiki

 

 

gogo

 

p.s. Saw some of your work on the wiki just now. Added some links to a new spell resistance page within which we can drop good explanation of the item modifier, as well as some formatting. Cheers!

[Schot 407]

Ah the old Attributes mystery. Reminds me of all the hoops we jumped through to peg down some of the S1 attribute mysteries. It was years after S1's release that the unlisted benefits were discovered but no one ever did uncover a solid formula that could project high character level values. Sacred 2's Willpower is quite an exception. Perhaps a mercy attribute for us, heh. It seems that even at level 200 adding a point to Willpower will add a single point to it's relative spell resistance. The other attributes however won't be so kind and, as gogo pointed out, Survival Bonus will make collecting data a bit tricky.

 

Breaking down the attributes in a way that anyone can understand does require a great deal of time and testing. Probably why no one has worked on it yet. It one of those things I tend to work on last since everything else is so much fun to discover.

 

Best of luck to you staylost. If something ever comes to mind I'll be sure to post it.

 

 

Welcome to DarkMatters.

[staylost 0]

Wow two replies from the administrators! Maybe I should just say three because from what I have seen Knuckles, he (or she) may as well be an admin too.

 

I see how muddled the knowledge we have actually is, then. However, there seem to be things we do think we know. Like interactions between spell resistance and spell intensity, right? I think it would be well worth our while to describe these actual mechanics to the best of our ability even if an exact calculation remains beyond our scope. Perhaps there should be a game mechanics section for Sacred 2? Specifically, it could cover things like Attack/Defense, Magic Attack/Magic Defense, and Spell Intensity/Spell Resistance.

 

Also, to state the mysteries of the attributes might be illuminating to some (me, for one). Since it is general practice (perhaps from D&D) to make the calculations clear, the idea that the calculations should be out of reach is a big piece of knowledge in itself. And let's not forget what we do know. Maybe I'm deluded by my inexperience, but even the CA regeneration bonus from stamina has a clear 1% gain per Stamina point spent within a level in silver difficulty (at least a clear reported gain).

 

Yes, survival bonus is a different animal, but continued suicide in silver is not that painful (unless death has a hidden modification of the derived statistics), especially for characters twinked with experience gain items. Unfortunately, I cannot pry open the black box like many of you because I am stuck on the console, but I hope to offer what help I can.

 

Another thought I have is that some mystery on the actual progression of stats is quite romantic. It adds a whimsical unknown to character self improvement that leads to only generalities being appropriate as 'fact.' It is a metaphorical inquisitor's simulacrum for our own lives. Our beliefs and strivings are far more likely to win the day than knowing if our path is the most efficient.

 

Thank-you for the warm welcome on my birthday!

[gogoblender 3,071]

yer welcome on the warm welcome

 

There is actually a catch all page for mechanic as they are being put together here by contributors:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...and_Game_Basics

 

You can definitely add more to that page, and/or edit to make it better. As that page gets more crowded, we can break it off into singular pages and or own sections.

 

 

 

gogo

[Echelar 0]

yer welcome on the warm welcome

 

There is actually a catch all page for mechanic as they are being put together here by contributors:

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php5/Sacre...and_Game_Basics

 

You can definitely add more to that page, and/or edit to make it better. As that page gets more crowded, we can break it off into singular pages and or own sections.

 

 

 

gogo

 

Hey, new wiki contributor here too. I'm also very interested in game mechanics. Here's a few things I'd like to see answers to on the wiki. If nobody knows the answer, I can attempt to test them out.

 

- How is maximum CA level without penalty calculated? It goes up with char level, and points in the relevant focus skill, but neither are 1:1. In fact, I don't see much notation on the wiki at all about maximum spell level, and penalties and such. We could probably put some more info in either the runes or CA page. Or perhaps make a separate page and link to it from both?

- When you go over the maximum level, obviously the runes start adding partial levels. How does this progress? Does it eventually stop giving you benefits altogether at some point? (for example: if your max level is 20, can you still get the skill to level 200 with enough time and runes?)

- What benefits or detriments are there from leveling up your mounts?

 

One other thing: On the combat & game basics page, there's a reference to a Chance to Hit Calculator, but no link. Does such a page exist?

 

Great work on the wiki so far; I'm looking forward to helping to make it better.