Bargaining Revisited - The Laws of Diminishing Returns

[Onemoredvine 0]

Hello fellow Sacred 2 fans,

 

I have experimented with a HE bargaining 'toon' and presently, she is at a low level (41 and playing through silver).

To date, I have on the advice of articles found on this site, kept my bargaining skill commensurate with my level (I have thus pumped 41 valuable skill points into bargaining).

I have noticed that vendors do offer more two star items and the +all skill rings and amulets provide some return to offset the loss of the 41 skill points diverted into bargaining.

My bargaining skill is at 85 (which implies that I have an additional 44 skill points being added by + all skills and + general skills with 18 points coming from my relics) and I am wondering at what point should I stop pumping the bargaining skill? The majority of the +all skills bonuses that I have managed to locate is 'capped at +2' while the and I am wondering when in silver will I see a higher 'return'?

My playing style is 'slow and easy - I enjoy doing all of the side quests and exploring as much of the world as I can ' and as such, I do not anticipate finishing silver before I am at level 65 to 70, so this implies diverting a further 20 to 30 skill points into bargaining before I see 'gold' (I am having a hard time seeing where the extra skill points are going to come from to keep my bargaining skill at least twice my level).

Should I expect to see better returns while in silver or do in need to be more patient and wait for gold or platinum or Niob?

 

Thanks in advance for the suggestions.......

[Katran 0]

The general rule for barg. is that it should be at list twice your level to see some good stuff and often. With many players preferring 3 times the level in barg.

Now for getting better stats its true in niob you will see the best stats on gear. If you have a fiend able to run you to niob via the camp. then you will see the best gear there with better stats.

[BalzaSteel 0]

Hi All

 

a litle off topic I supose, but since I'm starting a similer toon and I am also a completionist I was wondering, do you realy need better items than you're finding/shopping to handle the challenges your meeting?

 

 

BS

Edited September 17, 2009 by BalzaSteel

[Arperum 3]

You don't *absolutely* need them, it just makes life easier... (or so is said, never made any good bargaining char) I can't speak for the higher levels as I never even reached level 60...

[gogoblender 3,071]

It's not too hard to get Bargaining to at least three times level (my own minimum for any bargaining toon I run) with a good Bargaining suit and some levels spent shopping for it ^^ My higher level Bargainers in my own network run with about four to five times bargaining... suit and points included. Yes, there is horrific diminishing, but the stuff we can get quickly completely changes what we can do with builds.

 

Good luck

 

 

gogo

[Spunky 16]

That is until Ice & Blood hit the shelves, then I can't see that it's possible to have bargaining higher then 1-2 times the char level(at later levels that is).

[gogoblender 3,071]

Right. It's a big kick to our Bargainers when Ice and Blood hits... but we're already having our traders scouring for all the highest level bargaining rings they can get their hands on. That and the best equipment with native bargaining...hopefully this will take some of the sting away

 

 

gogo

[Mikey-Flies 0]

Right. It's a big kick to our Bargainers when Ice and Blood hits... but we're already having our traders scouring for all the highest level bargaining rings they can get their hands on. That and the best equipment with native bargaining...hopefully this will take some of the sting away

 

 

gogo

 

Didn't Chrona post something about how you no longer needed as high a bargaining level in Ice & blood that should compensate a bit for the change to all skills?

 

Link to a post with very good information on bargaining etc :

 

http://forum.sacredeng.ascaron-net.com/sho...ead.php?t=56777

[gogoblender 3,071]

Hi Mike

 

Here's Chrona's Post:

 

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?sh...c=12418&hl=

 

He advocates us all to use our high powered bargainers to get jewelry with + Bargaining on it, as + all skills and general have been nerfed. The Bargainers should be able to "bargain" well, but they won't be able to pick up the +all skills like before, which will nerf the toons we use the bargainers for I guess.

 

I don't mind the nerf so much, it's just a lot of shopping right now to get all the new gear for my network with the 2.43 while we have the advantage.

 

 

gogo

[Onemoredvine 0]

After having performed some more research. I discovered that the PC version permits the player to equip up to 12 relics.

The console version that I play restricts the player to only have 6 relics active.

This is a fairly large impediment to obtaining a high level of soft bargaining points. As an example, if each relic offers +3 bonus to bargaining (which is what I am seeing at my present skill level) then the console player is +18 skill points behind the eight ball

I already have some armor pieces with +5 bonus to general skills but I guess that I will have to purchase more general pieces and hope that this will make up the deficit.

I just hope that I can obtain enough +general skill pieces in the next 20 levels of silver to justify all of this time spent shopping.

I must admit that I spend far to much time scouring the shops for better rings and amulets and I am beginning to wonder if it will pay off in the end (I am saying that I will likely not invest the required time and effort in order to maximize my return). Clearly, some people have more shopping stamina and luck than I do

Having started down this road, I will persevere until at least mastery of bargaining to see what benefits this may bring in terms of better quest rewards (is this simply more money or better rings and amulets and weapons?).

Thanks everyone for the comments and encouragement

[gogoblender 3,071]

do you realy need better items than you're finding/shopping to handle the challenges your meeting?

 

 

Heya Bill!

 

I just took some pix to give you a comparison of what a non-bargainer is seeing versus what a max-bargaining toon that has completed Campaign Niobium can get.

 

The first two pix here are for a level 130 non-bargainer, non-Campaigner.

 

Number of Items offered - non bargainer

 

 

Quality of Items offered- non bargainer

 

 

These next two pix are for another toon, another dryad here ^^ Same level 130, with Max Bargaining, full bargaining suit on and has completed Niobium Campaign, so can shop in Niobium even though at level 130^^

 

Number of Items offered - bargainer that has completed niobium campaign

 

 

Quality of Items offered - bargainer that has completed niobium campaign

 

 

 

 

Neat eh? ^^ As you can see, when you stop using blues and greys to socket into your items, and begin to almost exclusively socket with only yellow jewelry, the jump to a "yellow" game is almost an entirely new game in itself!

 

You can see this kind of a difference almost immedietely when you play if you want.

 

Just create a level two High Elf Bargainer and put all points you get right into Bargaining. Right off the bat, you will see a HUGE increase in the number of items offered, and almost all the items offered will be yellow-rares. With a level 2 HE bargainer, you can outfit almost all your toons easily (you just need gold ^^) and the equipment you want to get is stuff with tons of sockets. Socket with jewelry you want for your build, and that level 2 shopper can launch your toons into level 15 -20 no sweat.

 

Cheers!

 

 

gogo

[Mikey-Flies 0]

I did a little digging and found the following thread which addressed bargaining in Ice and blood a bit but more on the all skills nerfage.

 

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?sh...12259&st=20

 

Specifically the following comment from Chrona was the one that caught my eye :

 

"Bargain works fine. with 2.40 and 2.43 I needed Bargain= Charlvl*3 Now the trader offers the same items with bargain=Charlvl*2"

 

Which sounds like they may have reduced the diminishing returns for bargaining along with the all skills nerfage or this needs more testing to determine if this is now the case. Hopefully the requirements for top tier items were reduced along with the +all skills

[BalzaSteel 0]

do you realy need better items than you're finding/shopping to handle the challenges your meeting?

 

 

Heya Bill!

 

I just took some pix to give you a comparison of what a non-bargainer is seeing versus what a max-bargaining toon that has completed Campaign Niobium can get.

 

The first two pix here are for a level 130 non-bargainer, non-Campaigner.

 

 

Hi All

 

I apprieciate the difference that baragining can make, even my level 9 tg shop/smith sees a vastly diferent set of merchandice then my level 10 HE and thats with a paltry 17 in Bargaining.

 

and from your pics I can see that the difference is even more dramatic at higher lvls. thanx by the way, I'm looking forward to drooling all over a store display like that one

 

my point to the OP was that if he's getting by with what he has, why worry about the double your level Bargaining guideline, once he gets to Gold he'll run into a happy coincidence, he'll need better items than he had in silver, and he'll be able to buy better items than he could in silver, wich will give him enough soft points to make up the difference in bargaining without spending hard points he'd like to spend elsewhere.

 

now I'm a NooB, so I could be completely wrong, but that's my take on it

 

BS

 

 

EDIT: sorry, I see I got one o my pet peeves mixed in with the above post, What I wanted to say is that if Onemoredvine is having fun with his Barganing where it's at, well, that is why we play the game isn't it? If he rushes up to Niobe and buys a bunch of uber items he's probably going to find silver to be way too easy and not much fun.

 

I realy didn't mean to sound like a smart ass, sorry about that

 

BS

Edited September 18, 2009 by BalzaSteel

[Antitrust 32]

Well yeah, getting niobium gear (finishing the game) so you can finally start playing silver (starting the game) is kinda silly.

[gogoblender 3,071]

if Onemoredvine is having fun with his Barganing where it's at, well, that is why we play the game isn't it?

 

 

Absolutely. It's an amazing game, and an unlimited number of approaches are possible.

 

 

gogo