Looking for a new computer

[Flooxim 49]

Hi.

 

On tuesday, while I was playing Sacred 2, some green lines appeared on the screen and then my screen went black. Since I was mobbing in Sacred 2, I decided to shut down the computer using the Power Button, and then restarted it.

 

When it rebooted, I got a message from Nvidia saying : "Nvidia System Sentinel detected that the temperature of your graphics card is too high. In order to avoid any other hardware failure, Nvidia reduced the performance of your graphics card." The message is longer than that but this was the main point of the message.

 

After that, I went here to start a topic about what I just wrote above, and once again I got the green lines and the black screen thing. I rebooted, but since then nothing appears on my screen anymore.

 

So today I went at some tech shop and told my story to a tech. I asked him if he could backup all my data and if my Graphics card is really dead. I've been using it for 3½ years and couldn't remove all the dust properly (it's a laptop).

 

So now comes the main point of this topic : It's now my turn to look for a new computer. Some of them are coming with a monitor, and some don't. I need a monitor, but I could buy one separately from somewhere else. I would need your help on that.

 

I'm not that much into buying every part myself and assembling them, but if I get some good opinions/experiences I might try this option.

I went on the websites where I could buy a computer here : FutureShop, BestBuy, TheSource, Staples, but none of them were really what I'm looking for. These computers either have crappy Graphic Cards or I don't trust the brand.

Am I just too picky about this? How should I set my state of mind when I buy this kind of thing?

Maybe I'm shopping the wrong way, but since I'm a gamer, when I look at a computer, I look at the Graphics Card. Should I be doing this?

 

And also, if I buy a computer with a Graphics Card that I would need to change after 6 months, I think this would break the warranty. Unless I buy the Card at the same store, can anyone confirm this?

 

 

I would really appreciate to have your help about this. I know that a computer is not something you can buy just like that (like food), so any kind of help would be appreciated.

 

 

Max

 

 

EDIT : To clarify a few things that I might get asked, I'm looking to use Windows 7 with the tips that have been stated on the forum.

Edited January 28, 2010 by metal_max64

[Schot 407]

Awh Max, that's such a drag. man. When the pc acts up it can really complicate life eh. ^^ I can offer no better advice than to buy from Microbytes. Specifically the downtown Microbytes. Their prices are sometimes better than online prices + shipping. Most importantly though is they are local so if something goes wrong you can take your problem part directly to them. And if you opt for a warranty plan they can replace your broken part right on site, right away. Best of all is that these goes are real pros. Awesome service and they flexible with their "rules". They lent me a vid card once while I waited for a new one to arrive even though I didn't have a warranty with them. Very cool bunch there.

 

Oh and you are so not being picky at all. You're being smart. As far as PCs go I think one can never be too picky. I would say the process of choosing a pc should take at least 2 weeks of research. At the VERY least.

 

Of course we'll need to a bit of research before you run off to the store sooo... Hmmm. Let's start with a price range. How much do you want to spend?

http://www.microbytes.com

 

P.s.

Not sure about the warranty breaking if you change the card... Are you asking for your present system or future?

 

P.p.s

What is your present system? Was it a package deal and if so can you link to a page about it? I'm wondering what can be salvaged from it.

[Flooxim 49]

Awh Max, that's such a drag. man. When the pc acts up it can really complicate life eh. ^^ I can offer no better advice than to buy from Microbytes. Specifically the downtown Microbytes. Their prices are sometimes better than online prices + shipping. Most importantly though is they are local so if something goes wrong you can take your problem part directly to them. And if you opt for a warranty plan they can replace your broken part right on site, right away. Best of all is that these goes are real pros. Awesome service and they flexible with their "rules". They lent me a vid card once while I waited for a new one to arrive even though I didn't have a warranty with them. Very cool bunch there.

 

Of course we'll need to a bit of research before you run off to the store sooo... Hmmm. Let's start with a price range. How much do you want to spend?

http://www.microbytes.com

 

P.s.

Not sure about the warranty breaking if you change the card... Are you asking for your present system or future?

 

P.p.s

What is your present system? Was it a package deal and if so can you link to a page about it? I'm wondering what can be salvaged from it.

 

I went on Microbytes Website earlier, but they didn't sell any desktops that are already made.

I've been considering using Dell. I made a computer on their website and I will discuss with my girlfriend on how much I could spend on a computer.

I also went on the CIPC Website, they also offer to build your own PC, but I still don't know if I want to completely build my PC or not.

 

 

I'm asking about the future system, which will be a desktop.

 

I bought my present system 3½ years ago at FutureShop, and it was a special price at the moment. The specs are in the Ice & Blood Behaviour topic.

 

 

Max

Edited January 28, 2010 by metal_max64

[locolagarto 15]

Awh Max, that's such a drag. man. When the pc acts up it can really complicate life eh. ^^ I can offer no better advice than to buy from Microbytes. Specifically the downtown Microbytes. Their prices are sometimes better than online prices + shipping. Most importantly though is they are local so if something goes wrong you can take your problem part directly to them. And if you opt for a warranty plan they can replace your broken part right on site, right away. Best of all is that these goes are real pros. Awesome service and they flexible with their "rules". They lent me a vid card once while I waited for a new one to arrive even though I didn't have a warranty with them. Very cool bunch there.

 

Oh and you are so not being picky at all. You're being smart. As far as PCs go I think one can never be too picky. I would say the process of choosing a pc should take at least 2 weeks of research. At the VERY least.

 

Of course we'll need to a bit of research before you run off to the store sooo... Hmmm. Let's start with a price range. How much do you want to spend?

http://www.microbytes.com

 

P.s.

Not sure about the warranty breaking if you change the card... Are you asking for your present system or future?

 

P.p.s

What is your present system? Was it a package deal and if so can you link to a page about it? I'm wondering what can be salvaged from it.

 

Wow! you can't get a better recommendation that this one. I wish I knew a place close to here with that kind of reputation. Closest thing here is the Geek Squad at Best Buy and they won't help with most things beyond what a novice user can't do them selves.

 

Is the local Microbytes as retail store or a tech shop? if you walk in and say hi to a tech, tell him what you are looing for, sounds like these guys might build you a PC.

[Knuckles 904]

I just bought a new pc recently and built myself. Building one for the first time was pretty intimidating...but just make sure you understand all the instructions and you should be ok. Also by building a pc I was able to pick and choose what parts I wanted to get extended warranties on. Those are directly from the manufacturer.

 

I bought all my stuff online thru Newegg. I have to say the service was excellent. I had to RMA the keyboard since it was bad out of the box. They didn't ask any questions or give me any hassles, just got an RMA and sent it off, had the replacement within 10 days.

 

By building it myself I probably saved 30-40% off retail price if I bought one thru someone like Dell.

[Timotheus 416]

Max, if you've got a little time to wait I'm willing to shop a complete system for you.

 

To answer some of your questions:

Sometimes it's not a bad idea to get a 'branded' pc. Yes, grahpics will most likely need to be upgraded, so you'd need to discuss with the shop whether that would void warranty. Also, with the shop changing the graphics card, you'll be more likely to keep warranty.

Combo deals could be interesting, but I'd never go shop for a combo deal. If you were to find a good one, that's nice, but remember that a monitor is a relatively cheap part of your pc, compared to the system itself. The monitor is what you'll be looking at, so it's one of the most important bits as well.

 

Regarding Schot's research comment: if you are into tech, dive into the latest stuff, read up a bit and you'll be pretty much set.

If you are not, don't just walk into a pc store and get a pc, and don't just dive in the literature. There is an enormous amount of literature on the latest bits and pieces, loads of hardware, so 2 weeks will definitely not cut it when you are out of the 'field'. I'll discuss some new stuff briefly:

 

 

- Intel Core i3/i5/i7: The latest Intel processors, kicking ass just like the Core 2 Duo's/Core 2 Quads. The new i5's even carry an on-board graphics chip!

These are very interesting. However! AMD currently has quad-cores for the price of Intel's iX dual core's. In some games, quads perform better. So that's a point of consideration. Also, with the iX range, you have to beware of the socket type when selecting other components!

 

- SSD: Solid State Disks. These are harddrives made from flash memory, like USB sticks. They are still expensive at the moment, but they allow for faster read/write and access speed, thereby making your system a bit more responsive (lower loading time, fast boot, etc). If you've got the money, think about getting one to put your operating system/most used programs on.

 

- ATI 5-series: For graphics, ATI 5XXX is the way to go. Dx11, and some darn good chips on that stuff that will outperform Nvidia counterparts.

 

 

 

My main questions to you:

 

- Pre built, or custom build?

Do you want a manufacturer's PC, like a Dell, or can you assemble it/let the shop do that for you?

 

- Any shops that have your preference?

 

- Any brand preferences?

 

- What's the budget?

 

- Do you need a monitor included with the price above?

 

Answer them, and I'll get on it asap.

For reference on parts and budget, take a look at the stuff in this pic (I used it for Knuckles's build):

There is some stuff that is not a necessity, the complete build can be a lot cheaper:

1. Desktop combo (mouse & keyboard) is expensive, there are way cheaper sets out there. ($150)

2. Sound: onboard sound will do fine in most cases, and some cheap speakers will do. ($440)

3. Screen: not everyone needs 24".

4. ASUS mobo: it's an overclocking motherboard. Could also be cheaper.

5. There is no graphics card included with the setup!

 

 

 

EDIT:

Went shopping for a bit.

Here's an 800 dollar build at Newegg with W7, AMD Quadcore and ATI 5-series GPU (no monitor, no mouse/keyboard):

Edited January 29, 2010 by Timotheus

[Flooxim 49]

Thanks everyone for your replies, I'm glad to know I can count on you for this kind of thing.

 

I think I got kind of "carried away" by a not so good part of my personality, and I bought a brand new computer from BestBuy last night.

My girlfriend and my parents will confirm that : When I want something, I want it now, and I'll do everything it takes to get it.

 

Combo deals could be interesting, but I'd never go shop for a combo deal. If you were to find a good one, that's nice, but remember that a monitor is a relatively cheap part of your pc, compared to the system itself. The monitor is what you'll be looking at, so it's one of the most important bits as well.

 

So there was a computer at the local BestBuy that looked interesting, and I knew that they didn't have many in stock, so I went there and asked them a few questions about the performance, the warranty, etc. The salesman was so nice that he got able to bargain a combo (Computer + Monitor) for $100 bucks less. So I saved 100 bucks right there. When he told me that, I knew that this offer wouldn't last long and that I most likely couldn't get a better offer somewhere else. So I bought it right away.

 

Yes, grahpics will most likely need to be upgraded, so you'd need to discuss with the shop whether that would void warranty. Also, with the shop changing the graphics card, you'll be more likely to keep warranty.

 

I discussed that point with the salesman. If I buy the part at the store when I'll need to upgrade, if the tech installs the part, it won't void the warranty.

 

- Pre built, or custom build?

Do you want a manufacturer's PC, like a Dell, or can you assemble it/let the shop do that for you?

I read a lot about people experiences with custom-built PCs, but I still think I'd go with a pre-built PC.

 

- Any shops that have your preference?

No, not really. If a store have something interesting and I can bargain with them, I'll go there.

 

- Any brand preferences?

I've been with HP for the last few years, and I've been told that I should try Acer. My girlfriend bought an Acer Laptop last year, and we didn't have any problems with it yet.

 

- What's the budget?

The budget was around $1500, including the monitor.

 

- Do you need a monitor included with the price above?

Yes.

 

 

Here are some specs of the computer :

 

Processor : Intel Core i7-860

RAM : 8GB DDR3

Video Card : Nvidia GeForce GTS240 2GB (it says 2GB, but couldn't test it yet.)

Operating System : Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit.

Monitor : Acer H213H 21.5" 1080p

 

It costed around $1640, including the monitor, and the warranty.

The Computer was $1200.

The Monitor was $249, but he sold it to me for $50 less

The Warranty was $249, but it also includes the Monitor warranty (which costs $50), so I saved another $50.

 

 

Once again, thanks for your replies, and especially Timo who took some of his time to look for a computer I could buy.

Don't worry Timo, the computers you built are not lost, one of my friends needs to buy a new computer, so I'll show him what you did. And maybe someone else here need or will need to buy a new computer, so we could redirect them to your post and show them what you built.

 

 

Max

Edited January 29, 2010 by metal_max64

[Timotheus 416]

Well, at least you've got the right processor there. The mem is maybe a bit overkill, you won't need to close any programs anymore The monitor looks good as well. The graphics are not that well. The 240 is just about as fast as the 9500GT. When you've got the money/feel the need to, that is the component to upgrade

 

How long is that warranty? If it's less than 3 years you've been hassled, that was pretty expensive.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Timotheus

[Flooxim 49]

Well, at least you've got the right processor there. The mem is maybe a bit overkill, you won't need to close any programs anymore The monitor looks good as well. The graphics are not that well. The 240 is just about as fast as the 9500GT. When you've got the money/feel the need to, that is the component to upgrade

 

How long is that warranty? If it's less than 3 years you've been hassled, that was pretty expensive.

 

 

The warranty is 3 years long, and it covers both the computer and the monitor.

 

 

Max

[gogoblender 3,071]

Im completely sold on service when it comes to anything computers these days and microbytes is insanely awesome. They`re right here in Montreal, they are primarily repairers and sellers, and I have never ever EVER been dissapointed by them

 

Thank you Microbytes

 

That one incident sold me. Have fun buying Max, comps are SO much fun... specially if you get an awesome sales person at the store who`s as much enthused by computers as we are.

 

Good luck!

 

 

gogo

[Timotheus 416]

Too bad that the manufacturers make everybody stoopid.

 

I mean come on, that PC Max bought is just screaming HD5770, and instead they threw in a budget card like the GT240. I was wrong about that one by the way, it's pretty much equal to the 9600GT. But that's still not impressive, considering it's matched with an i7 processor.

 

however, you've made a pretty good deal on it, you've pretty much matched the price of the system I picked together for Knuckles.

Edited January 29, 2010 by Timotheus

[locolagarto 15]

Too bad that the manufacturers make everybody stoopid.

 

I mean come on, that PC Max bought is just screaming HD5770, and instead they threw in a budget card like the GT240. I was wrong about that one by the way, it's pretty much equal to the 9600GT. But that's still not impressive, considering it's matched with an i7 processor.

 

however, you've made a pretty good deal on it, you've pretty much matched the price of the system I picked together for Knuckles.

 

on the topic of Vid Cards. I know you like ATI/AMD but what's your take on SLI / Crossfire for Dual Cards? and are 2-$200 GFX cards better than 1 $400 GFX card?

[gogoblender 3,071]

hollee mollee...lol, this`ll teach me for speed posting at work ...I only had read your original post Max and missed that you had bought the comp!

 

 

Congratulations on the purchase, you must be excited!

 

 

gogo

[Flooxim 49]

hollee mollee...lol, this`ll teach me for speed posting at work ...I only had read your original post Max and missed that you had bought the comp!

 

 

Congratulations on the purchase, you must be excited!

 

 

gogo

 

Course I am! I was about to install Sacred 2 and the other programs I need.

 

 

Max

[Timotheus 416]

Too bad that the manufacturers make everybody stoopid.

 

I mean come on, that PC Max bought is just screaming HD5770, and instead they threw in a budget card like the GT240. I was wrong about that one by the way, it's pretty much equal to the 9600GT. But that's still not impressive, considering it's matched with an i7 processor.

 

however, you've made a pretty good deal on it, you've pretty much matched the price of the system I picked together for Knuckles.

 

on the topic of Vid Cards. I know you like ATI/AMD but what's your take on SLI / Crossfire for Dual Cards? and are 2-$200 GFX cards better than 1 $400 GFX card?

 

Well that imply be a fail for me, having a pc with an Intel E6420 and an Nvidia 9600GT.

I don't "like" ATI/AMD, it's just that ATI started getting the best bang for your bucks since the 3xxx series and AMD has some real competitive pricing which makes their products interesting.

 

SLI/Crossfire is only something you should consider for laaaarge screens.

And as for your last question: a single card will most likely be faster, 9 out of 10 times. SLI/Crossfire scaling is still not 100%, you will get about 75-80% extra performance from that configuration. This is also heavily dependent on the profiles in games.

Ofcourse, it depends on the cards in question, but generally it's better to get a single card.

 

SLI/Crossfire is nice for bragging rights though

[locolagarto 15]

Well that imply be a fail for me, having a pc with an Intel E6420 and an Nvidia 9600GT.

I don't "like" ATI/AMD, it's just that ATI started getting the best bang for your bucks since the 3xxx series and AMD has some real competitive pricing which makes their products interesting.

 

Fair enough. thank you

 

SLI/Crossfire is only something you should consider for laaaarge screens.

how large? I run a 22.5 LG wide screen

 

And as for your last question: a single card will most likely be faster, 9 out of 10 times. SLI/Crossfire scaling is still not 100%, you will get about 75-80% extra performance from that configuration. This is also heavily dependent on the profiles in games.

Ofcourse, it depends on the cards in question, but generally it's better to get a single card.

 

SLI/Crossfire is nice for bragging rights though

 

Well I am running this i5 750 over clocked to 3.8 Ghz with a GTX260 card. it st plenty fast.... but you know, always could be faster. and I suppose Sacred2 won't benefit much from the SLi?

[Timotheus 416]

Well that imply be a fail for me, having a pc with an Intel E6420 and an Nvidia 9600GT.

I don't "like" ATI/AMD, it's just that ATI started getting the best bang for your bucks since the 3xxx series and AMD has some real competitive pricing which makes their products interesting.

 

Fair enough. thank you

Offtopic: It came out a bit wrong by the way, I meant to say: "That would imply a fail for me"

 

SLI/Crossfire is only something you should consider for laaaarge screens.

how large? I run a 22.5 LG wide screen

Depends, what's your resolution?

 

And as for your last question: a single card will most likely be faster, 9 out of 10 times. SLI/Crossfire scaling is still not 100%, you will get about 75-80% extra performance from that configuration. This is also heavily dependent on the profiles in games.

Ofcourse, it depends on the cards in question, but generally it's better to get a single card.

 

SLI/Crossfire is nice for bragging rights though

 

Well I am running this i5 750 over clocked to 3.8 Ghz with a GTX260 card. it st plenty fast.... but you know, always could be faster. and I suppose Sacred2 won't benefit much from the SLi?

I don't know about the scaling in Sacred 2, haven't read much of it, and I doubt there are that many hack&slashers out there with those kinds of pc's.

But when you've got physx going, you could try getting a 9600GT and put it in as a dedicated physx card.

If you're got physx turned off, meh. With no info on scaling, it's a pretty much hit'n'miss. And as for upgrading: the GTX260 performs near the 5770 for about the same price, so it's not really worth upgrading to that one. Sure, the 5850 will be a lot better, but they still are pretty expensive, so spend your money wisely young padawan.

 

Somewhere around March/April we can expect 5-series V2 (the refresh) and maybe there will be some interesting stuff by then. Also, it's still not clear what Nvidia will bring with the GT300 card.

Edited January 30, 2010 by Timotheus

[locolagarto 15]

Running at 1080p. and PhysX is bad voodoo. don't touch it. I also run 2 accounts quite often for trading and camp boosting as so forth. and to run smoothly I have to degrade the gfx setting in game menu. I wonder if adding another card would allow me to run full strength with 2 Sacred2.exe running. I have plenty of Ram with 8 Gb and my CPU usage never goes over 50% except some spikes.

[Timotheus 416]

Running at 1080p. and PhysX is bad voodoo. don't touch it. I also run 2 accounts quite often for trading and camp boosting as so forth. and to run smoothly I have to degrade the gfx setting in game menu. I wonder if adding another card would allow me to run full strength with 2 Sacred2.exe running. I have plenty of Ram with 8 Gb and my CPU usage never goes over 50% except some spikes.

Like I said, I don't know about scaling. I'll get back to you on Sunday, it's 20.26 atm and I've got a party to attend to.

I'll check up on some sources, and let you know!

[Timotheus 416]

Did some searching through various threads, only real clue I found was trouble with SLI back in 2008 with SLI profile returning to use only a single GPU.

Maybe there's some info in the various bugfix lists regarding the drivers, but I don't know.

 

TBH, I wouldn't bother with SLI at this point. Maybe some more digging would yield better results, though.

Edited January 31, 2010 by Timotheus

[locolagarto 15]

Did some searching through various threads, only real clue I found was trouble with SLI back in 2008 with SLI profile returning to use only a single GPU.

Maybe there's some info in the various bugfix lists regarding the drivers, but I don't know.

 

TBH, I wouldn't bother with SLI at this point. Maybe some more digging would yield better results, though.

 

 

Thanks Timotheus!