What is the best way to develop and maintain shopping toons?

[Dazedconfused 1]

Hi all,

 

Well it's been a fun week of alt making (for me anyway...my partner is more of a one or two toon player, and is shaking her head at my "X toon has achieved level 15 Achivement" uberness =) but we have been learning a lot, and still have SO much more to learn about Sacred.

 

Some background about us. We're in Australia (which means we don't have Fire and ICe) and playing SP on Xbox predominantly for now.

 

I have a few noob questions if I may?

 

1. What is the best way to develop and maintain shopping toons? From how I understand it, players must have shopping toons for various levels to allow them to find gear for a broad range of their playable character levels? Am I getting this right? It's taking me a while to level my toons on Silver, and can't imagine having all these unplayable alts at level 20/40/60/80 etc. <scratches head> I'd really like to get into my shopping for my toons.

 

2. Buff suits. How cool an idea is that! No question, just a statement of exploiting awe.

 

3. Eating runes. I've read a little, but is it safe (without getting too deep into it in this post) to assume the generally accepted best strategy is to eat one at the start, level you're respective Focus or Lore until the cooldowns (CD's) are very low, and THEN start to gradually eat more to increase the damage/output of the respective Combat Arts?

 

4. Oh, can shopping find you Set items?

 

I'm sure more questions will arise, and so far everyone's been very helpful, so thanks in advance for any info.

 

So far we're working on;

30 Dryad (Blowpipe. She was my first and I had no idea what to do, so she's a bit messed up)

19 DW seraphim (which I started based on a guide from here. For some reason I struggled with her to begin with, but seem to have the hang of her now)

19 SW who I REALLY want to improve. I went sword/shield and chose Shield Lore but now want to use a 2 handed hammer (for looks and ground pounding fun) so I need to really rethink how he's going to self correct. :'(

6 HE who isn't floating my boat for some reason.

13 Inquisitor (who I love but made a couple of early mistakes with. I've had some great advice from Dobri and others on how to fix him, so here's hoping. Was going to be a hybrid, but will probably be a gimped caster now)

4 TG (who I hope to turn into an Area of Effect grinder/shopper...see questions above)

 

El is working on her HE mainly who is about 35 now I believe. She, like I, made a few mistakes here but is still having fun with her. She's also just started a Melee Dryad, following a guide by Olocat here, and is having a blast with her. I played a little with her, and she really is a fun class to play Melee. She just hit level 16 and is off to get her mount!

 

Dave and El

[lujate 578]

#3 I watch my regen times. When I can live with the higher regen from reading another rune, I do it.

#4 I think I read somewhere that you used to be able to shop uniques (like Set Items) but it was patched out. I do not know if the console versions include that patch.

[DaveO 88]

From my understanding of Bargaining toons, the level of Bargaining has to be two to three times the character level to get good items. If you're developing early toons, then only the High Elf makes sense since she can get Bargaining right away. Bargaining will NOT let you buy set items, but Enhanced Perception could significantly improve your chances of finding magic items, rare items, set items, uniques and legendary items.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Hi and welcome to Dark Matters...

 

1.) Yeah... That's basically the idea - as it goes. But it all depends on your play style. You can skip the entire Home Shopping Network thing by taking one or possibly two General skills - including Bargaining. Three characters can take it right from the start - The High Elf, Inquisitor and Dragon Mage (if you've got Ice and Blood, Not available on the XBox or PS3). The Temple Guardian, Dryad and Seraphim can take Bargaining as a secondary skill (meaning they need one other General Skill and invest 5 points into it to unlock Bargaining. The Shadow Warrior is just out of luck as that skill is not available to him. For those characters who need to unlock Bargaining, you're best bet would be to take Enhanced Perception or possibly Blacksmithing.

 

The concept of a shopper is simple. Get Bargaining early and keep it at your current level. Bolster that with armor and other gear that add to All Skills or General Skills. Add in relics that add + x to Bargaining as well to maximize your shopping skill.

 

2.) Buff suits aren't the only special tricks you can do with armor. You can, for instance, also make a leech suit by socketing Dryad runes into a suit of the Cabalistic Voodoo group or the Inquisitor's Nefarious Netherworld group. You can also make a Bargaining suit - where you build a special armor set for whenever you visit a merchant.

 

3. Kinda. Except for two tiny details: a.) The cooldown on a given CA skill rarely goes down. It's the regen that will get you killed. And b.) it's never the lore that reduces your regen - it's always the related Focus of the aspect that reduces your regen. There are other things you can do to keep the regen nerf to a minimum. You can read more about it on the Sacred Wiki's Sacred 2 Rune Consumption Guide.

 

The Lore of any given aspect will generally add to the damage output of any given CA in the aspect.

 

4.) No. The only things you will find in a Merchant's inventory are gray, white, blue and yellow items. Unique, Set and Legendary items are not available - unless you sell them. You can, of course, buy them back at a hefty price.

 

Good luck..!

[Dobri 55]

Concerning the levels of the shopping toons - I personally play with only 2 main shoppers - level 75 and level 140. My other shoppers simply have a build in which I managed to squeeze in a few utility skills, one of which is bargaining. A level 75 HE shopper can happily kill the platinum guardians and this way you can easily get a niob shopper - mine was made back in 2.43 S2FA, so it should work for you too.

 

I noticed you play xbox, and if I recall correctly, the blacksmith skill is bugged there, which is a serious problem. If that is still so, I would make my shoppers level 60, 100 and 140. This way by the end of a difficulty, you will be able to outfit your toon with the next difficulty items/socketables, which is really nice.

 

As for which toons are easier to level up that far... In my opinion, the Pyro HE does best as a level 75 platinum or niobium shopper, because she can kill the nameless guardians (final boss) with relative ease. The Seraphim does best as level 140 niob shopper and level 100 plat shopper, because she's very durable from level 75 on thanks to her damage mitigation capabilities - she can use toughness + Celestial/Niokaste set shoulders + Celestial set torso + Endijian's Wings + Glacial Defender shield, which easily amounts to at least 60% damage mitigation at level 75. The Temple Guardian does great at any level, but he is REALLY slow leveler. The Inquisitor needs some time to make him shine, so an Inquisitor can become a good 75, 100 or 140 shopper if you go for big damage mitigation. If you play him as pure damage dealer, he can make a good low level shopper as well.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Concerning the levels of the shopping toons - I personally play with only 2 main shoppers - level 75 and level 140. My other shoppers simply have a build in which I managed to squeeze in a few utility skills, one of which is bargaining. A level 75 HE shopper can happily kill the platinum guardians and this way you can easily get a niob shopper - mine was made back in 2.43 S2FA, so it should work for you too.

 

I noticed you play xbox, and if I recall correctly, the blacksmith skill is bugged there, which is a serious problem. If that is still so, I would make my shoppers level 60, 100 and 140. This way by the end of a difficulty, you will be able to outfit your toon with the next difficulty items/socketables, which is really nice.

 

As for which toons are easier to level up that far... In my opinion, the Pyro HE does best as a level 75 platinum or niobium shopper, because she can kill the nameless guardians (final boss) with relative ease. The Seraphim does best as level 140 niob shopper and level 100 plat shopper, because she's very durable from level 75 on thanks to her damage mitigation capabilities - she can use toughness + Celestial/Niokaste set shoulders + Celestial set torso + Endijian's Wings + Glacial Defender shield, which easily amounts to at least 60% damage mitigation at level 75. The Temple Guardian does great at any level, but he is REALLY slow leveler. The Inquisitor needs some time to make him shine, so an Inquisitor can become a good 75, 100 or 140 shopper if you go for big damage mitigation. If you play him as pure damage dealer, he can make a good low level shopper as well.

 

TGs aren't THAT slow at leveling... I finished Silver with my TG at level 93 with about 7 days worth of game time. I will admit I did a bit of grinding, map revealing, and pretty much EVERY quest I could find in the game (including Ice and Blood and the CM Patch). By the time I got to the guardians, I was quite a bit ahead of the curve as everything had a white ring around it. He's now in Griffinborough moving toward Black Oaks in Gold at level 104. I'm still able to 1-shot most average enemy and 2-shot champ level baddies. Most of the bad guys I'm facing now have green rings around them.

[Dobri 55]

With respect, for me, 7 days game time is really slow. I usually get from 1 to 100 in 30 game hours at most and with the utility bosskiller, I entered niobium on level 140 in less than 48 hours of game time - and she's almost 165 in 3 days 21 hours... Granted, I usually play through the game with lots of +XP per kill, continuously grind bosses or quests and do few quests other than the most lucrative ones but... 7 days is way too much in my opinion. Besides, by level 60 a char should already be in gold and by level 100 he/she should already be grinding platinum. Enemies with green circles give so little XP that it is a waste of time in my opinion.

 

Mob killers and boss grinders usually gain levels the fastest, this is why I said that the utility TG (unless you make a utility Source Warden build) is one of the slowest levelers. If I recall correctly, Slevin made 1-100 in less than 10 hours with an inquisitor, and Chrona made that much in 20. I surmise that a few more chars can do just as well (Dryad, HE, DM, Seraphim), but the Devout Utility TG (the safest way to make a utility char) is by no means amongst them.

[wolfie2kX 528]

With respect, for me, 7 days game time is really slow. I usually get from 1 to 100 in 30 game hours at most and with the utility bosskiller, I entered niobium on level 140 in less than 48 hours of game time - and she's almost 165 in 3 days 21 hours... Granted, I usually play through the game with lots of +XP per kill, continuously grind bosses or quests and do few quests other than the most lucrative ones but... 7 days is way too much in my opinion. Besides, by level 60 a char should already be in gold and by level 100 he/she should already be grinding platinum. Enemies with green circles give so little XP that it is a waste of time in my opinion.

 

Mob killers and boss grinders usually gain levels the fastest, this is why I said that the utility TG (unless you make a utility Source Warden build) is one of the slowest levelers. If I recall correctly, Slevin made 1-100 in less than 10 hours with an inquisitor, and Chrona made that much in 20. I surmise that a few more chars can do just as well (Dryad, HE, DM, Seraphim), but the Devout Utility TG (the safest way to make a utility char) is by no means amongst them.

 

I think there's a major difference in perspective here. I'm playing in single player mode. I can't get to Gold or Platinum just by changing the difficulty level at least, not without finishing the game at that level. You can do that in multiplayer just fine.

 

I also mentioned I spent an awful lot of time doing other things - exploring and clearing out 80+% of the map so I could get that achievement. Since going into Gold, It's taken me less than 48 game hours to go from level 93 to level 104. I must be doing something ok - given that's something like 4+ million XP points per level. I wouldn't quite call 12,000 - 17,000 odd points per kill too terrible.

[Dobri 55]

I understand. Well, in my opinion, playing open or online is better, but to each one his own Besides, the closed net servers are a bit empty these days... Almost feels like playing SP... This is why I installed the CM patch to try it out.

[Dazedconfused 1]

Thanks guys,

 

Any further info on the bugged Xbox Blacksmithing issue?

 

So you can't shop Uniques either? :'(

 

Amazed you guys get to the levels you do so quickly actually, but I guess we're just starting. My fiance has her 35 +/- HE and has been at it for around 28 game hours o.O, and my chars are all following a similar line, time wise. *shrugs*

 

Might have to chase up a good walk through for optimum questing, as Dobri mentioned. Thoughts?

 

D & E

[Dragon Brother 619]

1. What is the best way to develop and maintain shopping toons? From how I understand it, players must have shopping toons for various levels to allow them to find gear for a broad range of their playable character levels? Am I getting this right? It's taking me a while to level my toons on Silver, and can't imagine having all these unplayable alts at level 20/40/60/80 etc. <scratches head> I'd really like to get into my shopping for my toons.

 

Just to add a little info if you didn't already know it. On consoles you are able to socket rings and amulets into items without raising the level of the original item. For example, on PC, socket a level 100 ring into a level 2 weapon and the weapon becomes level 100, on console, it stays at level 2. This means that you could get one character as high as possible to be your shopper, with maxed bargaining and and awesome bargaining suit, and then they can socket what they find into the low level gear for you other characters.

 

Also, blacksmithing as a skill simply doesnt work if I remember correctly, no point taking it on any of your characters.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Thanks guys,

 

Any further info on the bugged Xbox Blacksmithing issue?

 

So you can't shop Uniques either? :'(

 

Amazed you guys get to the levels you do so quickly actually, but I guess we're just starting. My fiance has her 35 +/- HE and has been at it for around 28 game hours o.O, and my chars are all following a similar line, time wise. *shrugs*

 

Might have to chase up a good walk through for optimum questing, as Dobri mentioned. Thoughts?

 

D & E

 

Nope.. No Uniques or Set items in the shops. BUT - there is hope. Take the Enhanced perception skill early - that will allow you to find better stuff. If you maintain that somewhere close to your current level and have a good set of relics plus armor and other stuff that gives you bonuses to that skill - you should see a LOT of good stuff drop from mobs. You should also get better quality drops from quest givers.

[Elwin 2]

Thanks guys,

 

Any further info on the bugged Xbox Blacksmithing issue?

 

So you can't shop Uniques either? :'(

 

Amazed you guys get to the levels you do so quickly actually, but I guess we're just starting. My fiance has her 35 +/- HE and has been at it for around 28 game hours o.O, and my chars are all following a similar line, time wise. *shrugs*

 

Might have to chase up a good walk through for optimum questing, as Dobri mentioned. Thoughts?

 

D & E

 

That fast leveling is due to masive socketing + expierience rings/amulets. It will came with time if u invest on making shopper chars.

 

Rune eating - that highly depends on CA we are talking about. Some need being kept at low to be spammable but those temporary buffs with high cooldowns can go sky high without hesitating.

 

@ Dobri. I found level 75 HE isnt doing well agaisnt plat guardians ... maybe in Fa with massive + all skills it was, but in Ice and Blood it was quite hard to get them down ... I would say bfg seraphim would have done it easier

Edited February 20, 2011 by Elwin

[claudius 104]

I agree with Dobri to get a niob 75 shopper. Lower shoppers are a luxary mainly to get +xp jewels. But you can just use niob smith arts until your high enough level to wear 75-8 level jewels.

 

Then your probably not going to want to level past 140 unless you think its fine to grind the same quest for 5 hours (blood forest) to gain a level. So therefore I'd make another shopper between maybe 115 I forget what dobri suggested.

 

Another tactic is to have a main character and level a shopper alongside. So you have a shopper at each level. Then 'park' your shopper at 115. Then another main and 'park' at 75.

[Elwin 2]

I also agree with that. There is no point in making shopper in short level distance like every 20 levels since bonuses form items will be very similar than. Personaly I Use a level 15,75 shopper and it works great. And my third one is at 100 going further.

[Dazedconfused 1]

I also agree with that. There is no point in making shopper in short level distance like every 20 levels since bonuses form items will be very similar than. Personaly I Use a level 15,75 shopper and it works great. And my third one is at 100 going further.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. I have a few toons now, so I should be able to take Bargaining with one of them now, and start planning for my next level 75 toon to have Bargaining as well. Shame about the SW, I was enjoying playing him.

 

Lots of stuff to consider.

 

Thanks all.

 

D & E

[Elwin 2]

IF SW had baregaining it would be complete cheater character Hes just too easy mode . I havent read any guide on him and doing test build and hes stronger than any my other toon who had prepared decent build before starting. Melitng down niob guardians(level 136) with level 92 SW in less than 20 seconds is just too insane, minding that its blacksmith test build, with a lot +experience socketed I do see that I can improve build to do it even better.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Elwin

[Dobri 55]

Elwin, the HE can do it if you manage to get her reflect high enough. With ISkin modded for revenge and a bunch of + reflect: close combat stuff (shopped rare weapon, shield, torso armor, unique socketables) you should be able to reflect at least 70% of the attacks of the nameless guardians, while you run and cast. I didn't say it is easy - in FA, it took me 40 minutes to bring them all down, and that's keeping in mind I had NO REFLECT at all - I was a newbie that time

 

P.S> Oh, yes - and I took the battle in the corridors - I didn't want the heart to keep on restoring their energy shield to full power all the time.

 

P.S.S> I just ran the level 78 HE I have (almost the same build as my level 75) against the plat guardians. It did take a little longer, but they went down and didn't bother her greatly.

Edited February 20, 2011 by Dobri

[Elwin 2]

So I guess my neglecting close combat reflect and going with niob anneals was the mistake I made. I also fight in corridors when my char have troubles with them. I wasnt much of run and caqst too, more like standing in expulsemagic and casting from close distance xD

[wolfie2kX 528]

I also agree with that. There is no point in making shopper in short level distance like every 20 levels since bonuses form items will be very similar than. Personaly I Use a level 15,75 shopper and it works great. And my third one is at 100 going further.

 

Thanks everyone for the advice. I have a few toons now, so I should be able to take Bargaining with one of them now, and start planning for my next level 75 toon to have Bargaining as well. Shame about the SW, I was enjoying playing him.

 

Lots of stuff to consider.

 

Thanks all.

 

D & E

 

The SW at least can take Enhanced perception. While it won't get you bargains at the merchants, it will help him find goodies. And since we've established that you can't find uniques, set items or legendaries at the merchants, it's not that big a deal. You can (and will) find the goodies you need out on the battlefield.

 

@ Dobri

 

Just got from level 105 to level 106 (5.8 million XP) in about 3 1/2 hours. Seem fast enough?

Edited February 20, 2011 by wolfie2kX

[Dazedconfused 1]

This game is too much fun, yet buggy...El

Edited February 20, 2011 by Dazedconfused

[Dobri 55]

Wolfie, I was by no means trying to disrespect you or something about the slow leveling... I was simply trying to give a different perspective, since dazedconfused is new to the game. It is always good to have an idea what other people have done when starting a game, so that you can set yourself a standard. Please don't feel the need to compete about levels In general, it is good enough to gain a level in 3.5 hours at that stage.

 

Elwin, close combat reflect is what makes the HE shine. This is actually the thing that makes the HE so good. Rather than avoiding taking damage, the HE actually should WORK on taking damage, but receiving none of it

Edited February 20, 2011 by Dobri

[Elwin 2]

 

I think there's a major difference in perspective here. I'm playing in single player mode. I can't get to Gold or Platinum just by changing the difficulty level at least, not without finishing the game at that level. You can do that in multiplayer just fine.

 

I also mentioned I spent an awful lot of time doing other things - exploring and clearing out 80+% of the map so I could get that achievement. Since going into Gold, It's taken me less than 48 game hours to go from level 93 to level 104. I must be doing something ok - given that's something like 4+ million XP points per level. I wouldn't quite call 12,000 - 17,000 odd points per kill too terrible.

 

 

Dont see a point as its singleplayer. You cant just take any difficulty on MP as well ./. to go gold or plat soon you have to finish campaign as well.Platinum is level 100 without doing campaign, well build char can grind in plat at around 65 by doing campaign so you know ....

I have just reached your point with my SW and around level 100-105 I still need less than hour to gain level. I have done campaign and grind in niob since level 90 or so. Compaing 1 hour and 3,5 hour its slow... But that SW, I have level 98 utility TG like you so I will compare timing but I cant believe he can reach that speed which my Sw has, thats why Dobri meant Devout TG leveling is slow.

[Elwin 2]

I cant edit anymore, but just for notings and comparison with Tg later . level 105 to 106 SW time 36 mins. Indeed multiplayer could have some tricks like frremode that singleplayer cant do so I will do with my TG in same way SW did to have clear view on values

Edited February 21, 2011 by Elwin

[claudius 104]

Just do the first 4 points of blood forest quest. Fast leveling.