Gudyleila 0 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 So guys, I was wondering, which one is the best for defense, Shield Lore or Armor Lore? Because I usually put 5 points in Armor just to get Shield (with a HE) and NEVER put another point on Armor. With the Dryad, I go all on Armor and don't pick Shield at all... So, which one provides more defense at the long run, Shield Lore or Armor Lore? Thanks in advance! =P Gudy. EDIT: BTW, should I pick both and put both in mastery, or only one? I'm kinda confused with this. Link to comment
Mystix123 60 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 That's actually a fairly tricky question. Honestly, I don't really know if there's a correct answer to your question. There is no "ultimate" choice (as in one being better than the other). I think the first thing that needs to be established is that they do not provide the same bonuses. Armor Lore gives Armor+ (reducing the maximum damage that you take) and helps to keep the regeneration penalties down (even more so when Mastered). Shield Lore provides Defense+ (briefly, it determines the base of your Evasion, much like Attack Value determines your Accuracy) and gives Chance to Block: Close Combat when Mastered. So, if you were to find a Shield that gives 0 Armor and equip it, your Armor stat would not increase, but your Defense stat would. If you find that you're usually toe to toe with enemies (especially in hordes) with a squishy character, then Shield Lore would be good to take to Mastery (for the Block Chance: Close Combat, even with other things such as the HE's Incandescent Skin with the Silver mod "Revenge"), while Armor Lore can be boosted by equipment (or with a few points if you find that your Regeneration Times are suffering). I've been finding that a high Armor value is great for reducing damage taken in Bronze/Silver, decent in Gold, not so great in Platinum and almost useless in Niob (in favour of Damage Mitigation). I haven't been able to observe my evasion rate very well, so I can't really comment on that. Hope that helps rather than make things even more confusing! Link to comment
Gudyleila 0 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Thanks Mystix123, that really helped. I didn't know the difference between those two because Armor and Defense were the same thing in my head. Now I know they aren't. Ill favor Shield for now, and if I see my regen time getting too high, ill put some points into Armor. Thanks =D Link to comment
lujate 578 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 "Best" is a tricky proposition in Sacred. I can say that most builds include Armor Lore, while Shield Lore is uncommon. Link to comment
chattius 2,531 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Armour lore is countering all 3 attack types: melee, ranged AND MAGIC. Shield lore dramatically reduces to be hit in melee (or ranged) if using the right shield. Life leech attacks can't be reduced by armour lore. But lifeleech on melee/ranged can be blocked with shield lore. Life leech attacks can be really nasty, so a mix of armour and shield lore did best for my kungfu dryads. With shield lore ranged/melee are only a few hits and the defense sockets could be block/reflect combat arts(=magic). Armour lore is needed to reduce the damage of hits which are not blocked. For masteries: damage mitigation is a very heavy argument. If there is no set item for torso/shoulder with damage mitigation you will need armour mastery to wear a rare one at high levels. But this depends a lot on class. Link to comment
Mystix123 60 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Here's a question for everyone (based on what Chattius stated): Does "Chance to Evade +%" (such as found from Celestial Magic Runes) apply to magic as well? I'd assume melee and ranged enemy CAs can be evaded, but I haven't really looked to see if magic CAs (such as the Kobold Mage's Poison Bolt) can be evaded. If CTE can evade magic attacks, then Shield Lore's bonus would also apply to magic, regardless of the shield (as any shield will boost your Defense Value). Link to comment
cider_steve 26 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I'd take Armor lore. You will always use it. If you take shield lore then you are obliged to use a shield ! What if you want to use a bow or a 2h wep ? Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Here's a question for everyone (based on what Chattius stated): Does "Chance to Evade +%" (such as found from Celestial Magic Runes) apply to magic as well? I'd assume melee and ranged enemy CAs can be evaded, but I haven't really looked to see if magic CAs (such as the Kobold Mage's Poison Bolt) can be evaded. If CTE can evade magic attacks, then Shield Lore's bonus would also apply to magic, regardless of the shield (as any shield will boost your Defense Value). Chance to evade works only on melee attacks, only way to 'evade' magic is with block ca or reflect ca. Link to comment
Gudyleila 0 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 WHOA! Lots of info here. Thanks guys. Ill have to re think what I've done with my toons. Im doing ok on Gold (still in Human Realm), but I have the feeling Ill get PWNED in higher difs because I haven't put much points (if not at all) in Armor Lore. Maybe ill have to restart those toons, we will see. Thanks again for all this help guys! =D Link to comment
essjayehm 58 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 WHOA! Lots of info here. Thanks guys. Ill have to re think what I've done with my toons. Im doing ok on Gold (still in Human Realm), but I have the feeling Ill get PWNED in higher difs because I haven't put much points (if not at all) in Armor Lore. Maybe ill have to restart those toons, we will see. Thanks again for all this help guys! =D I've had little issue surviving in Niobium with only 5, or sometimes 20 hard points in Armour Lore (and pumped by lotsa +allskills). Resistance is only one form of defence; if you have shored up your protection in other areas (Mitigation, Reflection, evasion, defence value, -enemy atk value, yada, yada) then you will be just fine. Things get really easy on console. You mainly only have to concern yourself with close combat. "Spell" damage is pathetic, there should be no issue with it, as long as you aren't at 1 HP Ranged damage can be an issue... but only situationally. ie - A Dryad using Ancient Bark can have heart-pounding adventures when playing with the D.a.r.k. archers in the Atamark region (Skooks' Corner-Atamark's Gate area). Link to comment
JKtheWonderguy 3 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Wait! There's more... Armor Lore also drops the penalty for buffs as well. With a higher armor lore, you can up your buffs and combat art level higher... So is armor lore or shield lore better? The answer: yes Link to comment
Mystix123 60 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 For masteries: damage mitigation is a very heavy argument. If there is no set item for torso/shoulder with damage mitigation you will need armour mastery to wear a rare one at high levels. But this depends a lot on class. My eyes completely jumped over this. This is a really good argument for Armor Lore Mastery. Chance to evade works only on melee attacks, only way to 'evade' magic is with block ca or reflect ca. Much thanks. I was always wondering about that, but never got a chance to confirm it. Wait! There's more... Armor Lore also drops the penalty for buffs as well. With a higher armor lore, you can up your buffs and combat art level higher... Not sure if this is something that was introduced in a later patch or in Ice and Blood, but it doesn't do this on the PS3 version. Just tested it with a Tanit's Collar replacing an experience+ Amulet. Battle Stance's Regen Penalty did not change from 19.4%, while most of my CAs have lost 0.1 seconds from the Regeneration Time. Link to comment
JKtheWonderguy 3 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Not sure if this is something that was introduced in a later patch or in Ice and Blood, but it doesn't do this on the PS3 version. Just tested it with a Tanit's Collar replacing an experience+ Amulet. Battle Stance's Regen Penalty did not change from 19.4%, while most of my CAs have lost 0.1 seconds from the Regeneration Time. Inneresting. Was that way with Fallen Angel as well. When you highlight armor lore on your skills, it doesn't say 'penalty from regen' on it? Or something similar? Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Actually, armour lore lowers the regen penalty on gear. So where each item says something like Regeneration Penalty +x% causing greater regen times for your Combat Arts, armour lore lowers the overall penalty (shown in your inventory as a bar that has percentages next to it or something) and thus lowers regen times on your Combat Arts. Link to comment
JKtheWonderguy 3 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Actually, you've armour lore lowers the regen penalty on gear. So where each item says something like Regeneration Penalty +x% causing greater regen times for your Combat Arts, armour lore lowers the overall penalty (shown in your inventory as a bar that has percentages next to it or something) and thus lowers regen times on your Combat Arts. As usual, you are correct sir. Link to comment
Mystix123 60 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) Inneresting. Was that way with Fallen Angel as well. When you highlight armor lore on your skills, it doesn't say 'penalty from regen' on it? Or something similar? Correct. There is a "Regeneration Time Penalty From Armor". However, this applies only to CA Regen Times, not those of Buffs. It doesn't carry within it the same function as "Regeneration Penalty From Buffs-". I don't know if a future patch, Ice and Blood or the Community Patch added that particular effect within the Armor Penalty Reduction, but on the console (therefore being somewhere before 2.40...I can't remember which patch range I had narrowed it down to on the GameFAQs boards anymore), "Regeneration Time Penalty From Armor" only affects the Regeneration Time aspect of non-Buff CAs. Edit: Ah! Dragon Brother gave a nice explanation while I was typing this up. Edited June 29, 2011 by Mystix123 Link to comment
JKtheWonderguy 3 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Yeah, duh. I hate when I say something here and somebody has to type something like 'yeah, the sky is like blue dude'. Link to comment
Dragon Brother 619 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Yeah, duh. I hate when I say something here and somebody has to type something like 'yeah, the sky is like blue dude'. Don't worry about it, all of us have gotten confused a time or few before Link to comment
Mystix123 60 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 (edited) Yeah, duh. I hate when I say something here and somebody has to type something like 'yeah, the sky is like blue dude'. I'm going to avoid being super aggressive about it (in reply to your tone), but I'd like to remind you where this all came from (before you attempt to insult others based on it): Armor Lore also drops the penalty for buffs as well.With a higher armor lore, you can up your buffs and combat art level higher... You're specifically referring to a decrease in the "Penalty For Buffs" here, hence why I brought it up (after quoting it too). This is also why I listed "Battle Stance" vs. "All Other CAs" in my original example, where the penalty for Battle Stance did not decrease while the Regen Times for the CAs (such as Pelting Strikes) did. So no, I wasn't confused, I didn't misunderstand, nor was I attempting to point out something obvious. I was correcting your statement. Even if this isn't what you meant, it's in writing and hard to interpret any other way (especially when you use specific, established terms). Edited June 29, 2011 by Mystix123 Link to comment
JKtheWonderguy 3 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Yeah, duh. I hate when I say something here and somebody has to type something like 'yeah, the sky is like blue dude'. Don't worry about it, all of us have gotten confused a time or few before True dat Link to comment
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