Focus vs Lore

[AeonsLegend 1]

I've been browsing builds for a while now and I keep seeing people take a Focus skill before a Lore skill in many (if not all) of them and when choosing only one of them it most often is the Focus skill.

 

What's the reasoning behind this? Does Focus increase the overall power more if you read enough runes. From what I have seen the Lore skills affect all parts that strengthen the skill without the necessity to read runes so I would opt for a Lore skill over a Focus skill.

 

So what am I missing?

[wolfie2kX 528]

Focus reduces the REGEN of your Combat Arts. Some CAs are most useful when you can spam them at an opponent. It kind of sucks if you're playing, say, the High Elf and want to shoot fireballs at your opponent but it takes 3 - 4 seconds before you can shoot another one at them. By taking the appropriate focus, and putting enough points towards it, your 4 second regen drops to say 1 second - making it so you can shoot 4 times the fireballs at your opponents.

 

This also means you can generally eat more runes - raising your CA's power level.

 

The focus skill also adds points toward unlocking your CA modifications - which are generally quite useful and can raise the power of that CA as well.

 

The Lore skill also raises the power of the CA's in that aspect, without having to eat another rune, but it doesn't do anything to reduce the regen nerf (penalty) when you eat another rune. And you will eventually will want to do so - like when those fireballs start bouncing off your targets doing no real damage at all.

 

So, the conventional wisdom would say that it would be a good idea to have both the Lore and the Focus skills for a given aspect.

 

Note: The Concentration skill also reduces the regen nerf as does the Stamina attribute. But to get the maximum reduction of the penalty, it's best to put points towards all three of them.

[chattius 2,529]

For spells and AddOn:

The CA-level ist the only way to do base-damage. Spell-lore, combat discipline, ancient magic and +x% damage in equipment multiply this base damage.

If you ignore regeneration times (either regeneration per hit builds - or my favourite halve regeneration time and alchemy boosted concentration potions builds) - then focus is needed to get as much base damage as possible.

Some spells have stun, attack speed reduction on target, ... with a per cent based on CA level - again focus is the way to go.

Another example are buffs: you want a buff from another tree than your main attack tree. Since most buffs do no damage, focus is to be preferred.

 

For example a Dragon mage elementalist:

You want the pet buff for intelligence and willpower boost: lore won't help on this (but on the hitpoints the buff gives).

You want runes of protection for its CA-block and stun, both raises with better ca-level: focus

Destroyers will be your main attack: they have a cooldown which drops by getting better ca-levels.

 

So how to start:

both buff trees get only the focus up to 9 points to modify the buffs

elementalist lore and focus should reach both 75 at player level 75. Then continue only working on focus till level 123.

The elementalist doesn't really need the elementalist buff, so concentration can stay at 1 for a long long time

...

 

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As you can see: what do choose highly depends on what you want to play.

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Another special are of cause weapon attacks in spell trees... here the base damage comes from the weapon.....

[Flix 5,116]

Taking both is best but I would never choose Lore over Focus.

[AeonsLegend 1]

I see, thanks for the information. I guess when having to choose only one it's best to go for lower regen times and let the extra runes increase base damage/stats of the CA. Of course both is better, but that's not always an option in each and every build.

[Ysne58 236]

With the two builds I'm currently working on, I'm using more than one buff, but not any other CAs in that aspect. For those, I'm going with the lore because regen time doesn't matter.

[AeonsLegend 1]

With the two builds I'm currently working on, I'm using more than one buff, but not any other CAs in that aspect. For those, I'm going with the lore because regen time doesn't matter.

So you're increasing the power from both reading runes and the Lore skill this way am I correct?

Doesn't the regen penalty from buffs affect all CA's from all aspects instead of just the aspect where the buff is part of?

[Flix 5,116]

That depends on whether you have expert touch turned on. Ysne58 must have it turned off. Expert touch lowers all your regen times but it makes all aspects share regen times. Turn it off and the aspects all have separate timers, but combat arts have slightly higher regen. I very rarely turn if off.

 

Expert touch is better for one you're doing a single aspect character, or if you're putting combat arts from multiple aspects into combos.

Keep it turned off if you're using many combat arts from multiple aspects, or just using buffs from other aspects.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Actually... Expert Touch does exactly what you say it does - but it has nothing to do with regen times of other aspects - at least not as Aeons was asking about.

 

Having a buff active - regardless of the aspect - has an effect on ALL combat arts that are available.. I have Expert Touch disabled on my current game - a Dragon Mage. With no buffs active, the regen time on Energy Blaze is 2.1 seconds - that's with 2 runes eaten and a +2 combat arts item being worn.

 

Energy Blaze is in the Mentalist Aspect (blue). If I activate the Protector buff which is in the Elementalist Aspect (egg yolk colored), the regen time for Energy Blaze jumps to 2.2 seconds. The Protector buff is currently level 2 with 2 runes eaten.

 

If I throw in the Familiar buff from the Dragon Magic (Red) aspect, Energy Blaze jumps to 2.5 seconds. Familiar is also at level 2 with 2 runes eaten.

 

Also... If you read the buff's screen carefully - it says there's a penalty for ALL combat arts of x%. X will vary depending on how many runes you've eaten into the buff as well as the other previously mentioned factors - Stamina, Concentration, Focus...

 

Oh.. And the above is true of ALL buffs except for one... That would be Grand Invigoration belonging to the High Elf. GI is the only buff out of the 21 (3 aspects, 7 classes) that does not nerf your regen...

 

Guessing the developers felt sorry for the HE for making her a bit too squishy so they gave her a means to heal herself that doesn't have a nerf associated with it.

[AeonsLegend 1]

Actually... Expert Touch does exactly what you say it does - but it has nothing to do with regen times of other aspects - at least not as Aeons was asking about.

 

Having a buff active - regardless of the aspect - has an effect on ALL combat arts that are available.. I have Expert Touch disabled on my current game - a Dragon Mage. With no buffs active, the regen time on Energy Blaze is 2.1 seconds - that's with 2 runes eaten and a +2 combat arts item being worn.

 

Energy Blaze is in the Mentalist Aspect (blue). If I activate the Protector buff which is in the Elementalist Aspect (egg yolk colored), the regen time for Energy Blaze jumps to 2.2 seconds. The Protector buff is currently level 2 with 2 runes eaten.

 

If I throw in the Familiar buff from the Dragon Magic (Red) aspect, Energy Blaze jumps to 2.5 seconds. Familiar is also at level 2 with 2 runes eaten.

 

Also... If you read the buff's screen carefully - it says there's a penalty for ALL combat arts of x%. X will vary depending on how many runes you've eaten into the buff as well as the other previously mentioned factors - Stamina, Concentration, Focus...

 

Oh.. And the above is true of ALL buffs except for one... That would be Grand Invigoration belonging to the High Elf. GI is the only buff out of the 21 (3 aspects, 7 classes) that does not nerf your regen...

 

Guessing the developers felt sorry for the HE for making her a bit too squishy so they gave her a means to heal herself that doesn't have a nerf associated with it.

 

That's exactly what I thought and I've seen this happen as well with my builds. Buff regen penalty goes across the board so to speak and expert touch has no impact on this. Expert Touch only affects the regen times of activated CA's the Activated CA will be available quicker at the cost of regen time of other aspects.

 

So the question remains if Lore outweighs Focus in the long run if regen time isn't an issue for the specific buff/ca. Perhaps this depends also on the type of CA and where it gets its base modifier from. For instance a weapon based CA will increase damage regardless of runes when you get better weapons. In this case a higher percentage will have more impact than adding a few extra base points from the runes. Pelting Strikes would be a good example of this I think.

[Ysne58 236]

I still have expert touch on. I'm pretty careful about reading runes. Concentration does help reduce regen time, and at 75 you can add a third buff. I have not yet made it into Niobium, which will be the real test as to how effective this will be.

[wolfie2kX 528]

Welp... Regen is almost always an issue - except when you're dealing with CAs that have a long cooldown on top of the regen factor. Case in point - the Dragon Mage CAs - Dragon Berserk or Dragon Form.

 

The reason being - the further you go into the game - and this is true in higher levels - you will run into bigger, nastier mobs that are more resistant to your advance. In Western Tyr Lysia - the elven region, I had little problem with the kobold and pirate mobs - each taking 2-3 hits to kill. But by the time I got to the eastern side of the region (near Bluestonbury), I found myself getting into a bit of trouble - even tho I had eaten a few extra runes and added points to the lore and focus of my CAs as well as adding Concentration to further reduce the nerfage.

 

There are simply times when you need or want to spam your CAs. Pelting Strikes is a prime example of one of those CAs you will need/want to be able to spam - simply because those mobs will get tougher as you go along...

[AeonsLegend 1]

Welp... Regen is almost always an issue - except when you're dealing with CAs that have a long cooldown on top of the regen factor. Case in point - the Dragon Mage CAs - Dragon Berserk or Dragon Form.

 

The reason being - the further you go into the game - and this is true in higher levels - you will run into bigger, nastier mobs that are more resistant to your advance. In Western Tyr Lysia - the elven region, I had little problem with the kobold and pirate mobs - each taking 2-3 hits to kill. But by the time I got to the eastern side of the region (near Bluestonbury), I found myself getting into a bit of trouble - even tho I had eaten a few extra runes and added points to the lore and focus of my CAs as well as adding Concentration to further reduce the nerfage.

 

There are simply times when you need or want to spam your CAs. Pelting Strikes is a prime example of one of those CAs you will need/want to be able to spam - simply because those mobs will get tougher as you go along...

 

I don't use pelting strikes because frankly the damage it deals is almost identical to normal weapon damage and with all the boosts in speed and upgrades eventually normal weapon damage (in terms of dps) overtakes Pelting strikes. It's just far too slow. If I want to deal with mobs I'd rather use Flaring Nova or Radiant Pillar. I think most Seraphim builds are built around the Revered Technology aspect so that shouldn't be a problem for any build. Pelting strikes hits enemies, but for me it only worked in the beginning.

 

I only use it when I feel lazy or just want to see a different animation really. what's your thoughts?

[lujate 578]

I always used PS at the end of combos in conjunction with RpH, so I never really did any DPS comparsion, but I am a little skeptical as to normal attacks doing more damage.

 

I think it is safe to say that most seraphim builds include Rev Tech, but that is usually for WE. They probably also include EWF.

[wolfie2kX 528]

I don't use pelting strikes because frankly the damage it deals is almost identical to normal weapon damage and with all the boosts in speed and upgrades eventually normal weapon damage (in terms of dps) overtakes Pelting strikes. It's just far too slow. If I want to deal with mobs I'd rather use Flaring Nova or Radiant Pillar. I think most Seraphim builds are built around the Revered Technology aspect so that shouldn't be a problem for any build. Pelting strikes hits enemies, but for me it only worked in the beginning.

 

I only use it when I feel lazy or just want to see a different animation really. what's your thoughts?

 

Ya know.. I kinda had the same sort of feeling about it, but... If you team Pelting Strikes up with Dual Wield and set your girl up with a couple of really sharp and nasty blades - things change very, very quickly.

 

The thing about PS when used with Dual Wield - you get plenty of mileage per use. On average, I get 6 hits per click. That's 3 strikes with each weapon. If you set things up right, you can knock out a mob in one click. Add in some RpH rings or ammys and you can pretty much spam PS all day long and mow anything that comes your way down.

 

Other must haves for this sort of setup - Exalted Warrior Lore and Focus, Sword Lore and Concentration. Having armor bits that contribute to the cause are always welcome. Niokaste's set, for instance, is made just for this sort of thing.

 

Edit: If you're using the latest CM Patch - I'd recommend finding the Remnants of Drizzt set... It's a universal set that was made for dual wielders. The two swords are sharp and nasty enough to do the mowing...

Edited March 29, 2013 by wolfie2kX

[Aegis 256]

Pelting Strikes is an amazing CA when used with duel wield. Have the battle stance buff active as well to get the most mileage. With rph rings socketed, hitpoints from even bosses drop so fast it's hilarious. Thus far, dph-wise, my duel wielding seraphim has been my fastest boss killer because of duel wield and PS.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aegis

[AeonsLegend 1]

Strange, because my DW Seraphim deals way more damage by just holding down the attack button than using Pelting Strikes.

 

Default damage stat is close to normal damage stat and holding down the attack button will simply drill the enemy with hits way faster than PS is doing. Will Pelting Strikes become faster at higher levels?

[wolfie2kX 528]

From what I've seen, yes. But it depends largely on the gear you've got. Anything that boosts attack speed will help in that regard. I just checked - my DW Seraphim's PS speed is currently 122%.

 

The damage dealt will largely be affected by the number of runes eaten.

 

The problem with the way you've been doing it - you have to target each individual baddy for the attack and then execute said attack. Then you have to reposition the mouse on the next baddy, lather, rinse, repeat. With PS, you can attack an entire group of baddies with just ONE click. Target one, attack with PS, and when the guy goes down, the attack continues to the 2nd and 3rd and maybe even 4th baddy - depending on their level. NOR do they have to be up close and personal to you for the attack to succeed. PS seems to have a bit of a range which can look kind of strange when you're hacking and slashing a baddy who is well beyond the reach of the weapons you've got.

 

Here's what I'm currently using...

 

CA:

Pelting Strikes - Level 13 - 10 runes eaten. Regen 4.0 seconds

Mods:

Succession - Chance for Double Hit

Enfeeble - Temporarily reduces enemy defenses

Precision - Increases chances for Critical Hit

 

Weapons and Armor:

Icingdeath - Sword - Remnants of Drizzt set (CM Patch 140 hf)

Twinkle - Sword - Remnants of Drizzt set

Mielikki's Grace - Ammy - Remnants of Drizzt set

Guenhwyvar's Refuge - Ring - Remnants of Drizzt set

 

Full Set bonus for Remnants of Drizzt set:

Chance to evade: 22%

Damage: +15.5%

Regen Time: -14.9%

 

Niokaste's set items: Shoulder Guards, Robe, Sleeves and helm

Set bonus:

EW Focus +7

Defense Value: +55

 

Virtues of the Seraphim Set items: gloves, waist, legs and feet.

Set Bonus:

Chance to disregard armor: 9.6%

Chance for Weaken: 3.9%

Chance for Burn: 3.9%

Chance for Poison: 3.9%

Chance for Freeze: 3.9%

Survival Bonus: +22%

 

Revelation of the Seraphim Set item: Wings of the Celestial

 

I also have various rings and ammys with RpH embedded into each item which boosts RpH up to 4.6 s... Note - 1 hit currently will fully recharge PS as the RpH is higher than the regen time of the CA.

 

Additionally, I have some Niobium Dryad Viperish Disease runes socketed that give her +11 Life Leech per item, per hit for a total of 171 additional damage.

 

Maybe I should call this build the Veg-o-matic.. She slices and dices and makes tons of julienne fries...

Edited March 29, 2013 by wolfie2kX

[essjayehm 58]

PS is controlled by both attack and cast speeds, iirc. It does not get faster with CA levels, but the biggest boon for PS is Dashing Alacrity

 

And, maybe not right now, but when you have decent RpH to support a high-level PS, it will do miles more damage / DPS than the silly left-click attacks.

[Ysne58 236]

For the Seraph, I use Pelting Strikes with wands. It has a nice distance attack when all the melee range enemies die, which I really like. I start out with Battle Stance, add in Cleansing Brilliance as soon as I get concentration and then plan to add Warding Energy when I have concentration at 75 hard skillpoints

For the SW, I use a combo of Demonic blow + Frenzied rampage. For distance enemies I will switch to either a potion or bow. For buffs, I start with Grim Resilience, add in reflective emanation as soon as I get concentration. I will probably switch out Shadow Veil and Nether Allegiance as needed when I get 75 hard skill points into Concentration. My SW is dual wield.

 

For both these characters, Tactics Lore is also the lore skill for the aspects those combat arts use. Since I'm already learning tactics in order to get the weapon each character is focusing on, that also helps increase damage output.

I do not read any runes until the regen time is down to 3 seconds or less so that I can spam when needed.

[Aegis 256]

Hmm. I know it's been a while since I built my seraphim, but even then, PS had the better damage when I used it. Speeds were comparable, while each hit was fairly noticeable, so I ended up using PS quite often especially when around mobs. Then there is that reach PS gives once it kills off the first enemy within in that mob; subsequent enemies even at mid range get the next bunch of hits, thus a great mob killer as well as a boss killer. PS is not the only weapon-based CA that has that kind of effect. Frenzied Rampage for the SW and Demonic Blow modded to have Area of Effect will have additional reach for surrounding enemies as well. In general, melee-based CAs similar to those aforementioned moves should have that added range against surrounding mobs, dependant on variables like CA level. With that in mind, from your last post I've seen, your seraphim is at level 36. That level is still very early in your seraphim's life, so continue to just build her up till then and find some better equipment along the way. My seraphim didn't strt reaping benefits till near the end, and then from gold and beyond, the benefits of PS really shone.

Edited March 29, 2013 by Aegis