Classifying Combat Arts

[Flix 5,116]

This is sort of "organizing my thoughts" thread and I thought input from other players would be valuable.

 

The game basically categorzies Combat Arts as "Buffs" and "everything else." Wiki workers have gone a step further and broken down Combat Arts into the basic categories based on behavior and tactical uses:

• Weapon Damage Based Combat Arts
• Spell Damage Based Combat Arts
• Hybrid Damage Based Combat Arts
• Area of Effect
• Multi Hit
• Damage over Time
• Healing

 

Since I'm starting to work on Combat Arts, I had some thoughts about these categories:

 

1) I added Ruinous Onslaught to the Buffs page as a Temporary Buff. For those that don't use it much, it's a Shadow Warrior skill that you activate while running and it lasts as long as you can keep running (similar to the Horse's Combat Art Charge ). It's basically an escape skill that gives you Damage Mitigation, Defense, Chance to Break Roots, Healing, etc. I thought it was a shoe-in for a temp buff based on the page's stated defintion:

 

"In Sacred 2 the term "Buff" refers to a specific type of Combat Art that affects the player in a positive manner over a period of time."

 

But, given the speed in which this addition was moved from where I put it, I thought I'd put some other ideas out there before I made the edits.

 

 

2) Candidate for Area of Effect page:

Instill Belief - affects the target and nearby enemies. Mod to increase area of effect.

 

3) What other categories might there be? Movement/jump/teleport Combat Arts is one type that comes to mind.

[tom.morrow 89]

.

Some Combat Arts will fall into multiple categories, that should be no problem

 

You could break buffs into

• permanent
• temporary

where permanent would be:

something that you initiate and it stays that way until either you turn it off or you get de-buffed

 

and temporary would be:

any other buff that has either a timer or a state condition (keep running, Forrest)

and stops once that timer or condition expires

EDIT:

    On second thought, based on the "state condition" you may aswell go ahead
    and list all buffs as temporary
    since the permanent ones can be "turned off" or debuffed, which are "state conditions"

:evil grin:

 

As you mentioned, the relocation category with all the running / jumping / porting / levy Combat Arts

 

EDIT 2:

    More thoughts comming up:
    As I see it, Combat Arts should have a "category list" attribute

    for example Shadow Step:
    It would, at all times, fall under (or be included in) the category "relocation".
    Also,at all times, it should be included in a category for "Non-target-required"
                                        or "target-either-foe-or-ground" Combat Arts

    It's Bronze Escape mod would fall under (or be included in) the category "buffs"
    aswell as both Silver mods and the Golden Mend mod, all those "are" buffs

    now, the Bronze Phase Shift would fit into a "self cooldown affecting"
    and the Gold Explosion into "Area of Effect"

    Which leads to an expansion of the categories (again):

        "target foe"                     can be used only on a foe

        "target ground"                  can be used only on ground (not sure if such one exists)

        "target-either-foe-or-ground"    can be used either on foe or ground

        "ground-or-foe force able"       normally used only on either a foe or on ground
                                         but can be forced the other way by holding CTRL
                                         (example: Seraphims' Assailing Somersault)

        "regen affecting"                affects general times

        "specific regen affecting"       affects regeneration time of specific CA's or aspects

        "cooldown affecting"             affects general cooldowns (not sure if such one exists)

        "self cooldown affecting"        affects cooldown of self (through mod)


:even more evil grin:

    I may have opened a can of worms here, sorry mate.

 

best regards

 

Oh my god, you killed benny!

Edited October 27, 2013 by tom.morrow

[chattius 2,526]

Debuff type:

DM maelstrom

Elf : dispel magic

Dryad. : this vodoo curse

...

 

Tower types: stationary autofiring things

[tom.morrow 89]

( somethings wrong, I cant post code sections, they either kill my browser or never update the post !.! )

 

The more I think about this, the more worms pop out :s


This is a general idea.
I know its way to complex but once good thought through,
its should be able to handle or incorporate quite alot:

Target Types

. Single Target
. Multi Target
. Area (non targeted)

Targets

. Self . "Single Target"
. Character (PC or NPC) . "Single Target"
. Party . "Multi Target"
. Foe . "Single Target" or "Multi Target"
. Ground . "Area"
. Ground or Foe . "Single Target" or "Multi Target" or "Area"

Damage Base

. Weapon Based
. Magic Based
. Hybrid

State Affecting (self or Foe or Area of Effect)

. Buffs
. Heals
. Curses
. Raise Dead
. Turn Sides
. Lure
. Repell
. Unarm
. Root
. Stun
. Debuff
. Energy Shields
. Relocating
. Cooldowns
. Regen Times
.
. ( I'm sure there are more )
.
.

Duration

. Fire & Forget
. Short Timer Based

Buffs

. have "Targets"
. have "Duration"

Damage

. have "Targets"

. have "Damage Base"
. may have "State Affecting"
. may have "Duration"

Stationaries

. may have "Targets"
. may have "Damage"
. may have "State Affecting"
. may have "Duration"
. may have "Buffs"

Followers

. may have "Targets"
. may have "Damage"
. may have "State Affecting"
. may have "Duration"
. may have "Buffs"

Summons

. Stationaries
. Followers

Edited October 27, 2013 by tom.morrow

[Schot 407]

Definitely need a Hard Hit category in there. I think the concept of hard hit which , for Sacred gamers, came from Sacred Underworld and was used by multiple Characters. Combat Arts. There you will see that the Seraphim, Gladiator, Dark Elf and Wood Elf all use the combat art Hard Hit. The other three Characters use Hard Hit as well but the naming is different. The basic comcept is that it's a single blow that does a lot of damage. For the Battle Mage, instead of a Hard Hit physical attack, his equivalent was Fireball. In Sacred 2 I think this concept may have been missed out on and creating a category for it in Sacred 2 could be a useful distinction. In Sacred 2 the Hard Hit and Multi Hit concepts from Sacred Underworld are easy to track down. Hard Hit is the first Combat Art of every Character in Sacred 2 and Multi-Hit the second, with the exception of the Ice & Blood expansion Character, the Dragon Mage. I'm not sure what to make of the Dragon Mage because I've barely played him but it looks as though the first Combat Art of his first form is a Hard Hit.

 

Looking at Sacred Underworld is a great way to get a deeper understanding of the mechanics and how they can be classified.

 

 

I "think" Instill Belief is a debuff. Or a Hex? Hmmm... Hmmm... Tough one.

[Flix 5,116]

Very true about Dragon Mage, keen observation considering you haven't played him much.

 

I like these categories, great food for thought.

 

So far, these are the non-existent ones I like:

Summons - things you create or raise. Minions, structures. I'd be more tempted to put "Instill Belief " here, in addition to Area of Effect. You get minions from it, and it takes affect on multiple enemies in the target area.

Hard Hit - as Schot described

Movement - Shadow Step, Forest Flight, etc.

 

Cooldowns and Damage Types (fire,poison, etc.) I'm already planning. In terms of some other effects - root, stun, knockback, those can be added to the appropriate modifier page.

 

Debuffs are interesting, consider that almost every CA can be modded to debuff an opponent in some way - perhaps too broad as a category? Maybe if the type of debuff has a modifier page, the Combat Arts that cause it can be listed on that page. That still leaves out some of the more unique debuff Combat Arts though...

Edited October 27, 2013 by Flix