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Can DoTs from CAs cause secondary damage effects?


Genitor

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Hi Guys!

I am planning a DoT-heavy Dragon Mage for my next playthrough of Sacred 2.

However, a question arose that the wiki couldnt answer satisfactorily.

Can the DoTs from CAs cause secondary effects?

I am asking this mainly in regards to Gust of Wind's poison runes because this would be my only source of poison and if the DoT from this mod cannot cause the poison secondary effect I might change the build

(as of now I can cause every effect except freeze which isnt important for this build).

For Sake of Completeness, here is the build (and maybe someone can also answer my question concerning the Impact-rune of Gust of Wind):

Skills:

level 02 - 01. Mentalism Lore (75 points)

level 03 - 02. Elemental Magic Lore (75 points)

level 05 - 03. Armor Lore (75 points)

level 08 - 04. Mentalism Focus (sec.; 75 points)

level 12 - 05. Elemental Magic Focus (sec.; 75 points)

level 18 - 06. Concentration (1 point)

level 25 - 07. Constitution (75 points)

level 35 - 08. Ancient Magic (sec.; 75 points)

level 50 - 09. Toughness (sec.; 75 points)

level 65 - 10. Damage Lore (75 points)

 

Total: 676/921 skill points

 

Attributes:

100% Intelligence

Experts’ touch: on

 

 

CA’s and Modifications:

 

Elemental Magic

 

Destroyer: Explosive – Swarm – Explosive (<= only source of burn secondary effect)

 

Gust of Wind: Poison Mist – Squall – Poison Mist/Impact(?) (<= test; Poison triggers from dot-CA?; what exactly does rebound-damage?)

 

Tornado: Storm Force – Unleashed – Critical

 

Protector (2nd Buff): Regeneration – Protection – Protective Shield

 

Mentalism

 

Combat Trance: Awareness – Experienced – Energy Flux

 

Energy Blaze: Confusion – Impact – Afterglow

 

Maelstrom: Grind – Extension – Demoralize

 

Mind Strike: Weakness – Impact – Drill

 

Runes of Protection (1st Buff): Protection – Stone Skin – Runes

 

 

Combos

 

1. (Clearing trash): Energy Blaze + Gust of Wind

 

2. (Boss killer): Mind Strike + Destroyer; cd <10 sec. (deep wound)

 

 

an obvious change would, ofc be to swap damage lore for dragon magic focus and go for the familiar as 3rd buff should my DoT-plans not work out.

 

Thank you, in advance!

 

best regards

Genitor

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I think you're a bit confused, I recommend you read this article: http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Damage_over_time:_Poison

DOT "damage" is already a secondary effect, which can be cause by either a weapon hit where the weapon has an elemental damage converter or from a CA which causes that type of damage. So Gust of Wind's Poison Mist mod will cause poison DOT, not poison damage which can then cause extra poison DOT (sorry but they have the same name...).

I hope that helps.

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I read that entry in the wiki and it didnt satisfy me because it does not specifically say anything about DoT-effects that come from a CA.

In Case of Gust of Wind the poison damage is not a direct damage (in this case it would, obviously be able to cause the poison secondary effect) and I guess its a bit of a niche thing since most CAs that deal a DoT also deal the same type of damage directly which would get them covered. However Gust of Wind has 0 direct poison damage even with the mod(s) and that is what makes me wonder.

 

So you are saying that the poison Dot from the poison mod can trigger the same secondary effect as if you would deal poison damage straight and will benefit from "Damage lore" and " other +chance to poison"-effects?

(sry but your statement can be missread because of the "not poison damage" part in there)

I wonder now how I should understand your sentence:

like

1. So Gust of Wind's Poison Mist mod will cause poison DoT, which can then cause extra poison DoT.

or

2. Not poison damage, which can cause extra poison DoT.

 

sry for being that annoying but I really want to know for sure. XD

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Oh, sorry for the misleading post then. What I meant is that according to the wording on the Wiki the CA mod will cause poison DOT, not direct poison damage. For instance Frenzied Rampage has a mod called Envenom, which adds direct poison damage, which when dealt to an opponent can cause poison DOT. Gust of Wind's mod won't add direct poison damage to the CA, it will only cause poison DOT as the damage type on the CA will still be (only) physical.

Regarding Damage Lore's effect on Gust of Wind, the skill won't increase the chance for the CA to cause a secondary effect (poison DOT in this case) but it'll increase its duration and damage since it affects all DOT.

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no worries. I am glad you are taking the time to chat with me!

If the DoT on the spell is basically already the exact poison DoT I want to buff thats actually pretty nice since this means I have basically a 100% "chance" to cause it right away and the poison-damage-output should be quite insane when I take both poison mods and combine them with damage lore.

Does damage lore apply to all DoTs on CAs? Like: would it increase the DoT-damage of "Levin Array" from Inquisitor, for example?

Because if it does I really underestimated damage lore since I thought it wouldnt affect those inbuilt DoTs.

Thank you!

Edited by Genitor
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54 minutes ago, Androdion said:

Well, I've read and reread what's on the Wiki page for the skill and I think I've gotten as doubtful about the end results as you did. In theory it should affect all DOT globally but the wording makes it seem like it'll only improve the damage/duration of a DOT when it's caused by a secondary effect. Nothing like testing it to dispel any doubts about it, because now I've also got the itch to know it. :D

And so I did, modified Gust of Wind twice for poisoning and casted it on an enemy, which caused at the level in question 65 DOT per second. Then I put one point in Damage Lore, still 65/sec, then mastered Damage Lore and still 65/sec. So yeah, sorry but I've again mislead you. :whistle:

The info on the Wiki is usually extremely accurate, and some things that may seems logical at first aren't exactly translated like that into the game's calculations. So my advice would be to pick up the blank toons in this file and test each and every CA for Damage Lore interactions. You should test with and without the Damage Lore skill, with 1 point and 75 points to see if adding points to the skill makes any changes.

PS: I guess that the lines to bear in mind are these:

  • "Mastering the skill increases the Effects' damage and duration, once they are triggered."
  • The mastery bonus will not affect damage over time effects that are stated in an ingame Combat Art tooltip (Damage over Time, caused by Spell Damage Based Combat Arts - eg, Blazing Tempest). However, it is possible for a monster to be affected by two different types of DoTs: one from the Spell Damage Based Combat Art and one due to the monster being burned.

This game's ever complex, thanks Androdion for the testing and analysis, especially with the reconciling against the Wiki

And happy you found us, Genitor and are having fun with the game's mechanics... they have kept us all up for hours on end with delight and madness

Welcome to DarkMatters!

:crazy:

gogo

 

 

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2 hours ago, Androdion said:

Yeah, like I said, sometimes the everyday logic and the in-game calculations aren't quite the same thing. Much like that post where Flix mentioned the damage tokens on the spells.txt file. ;)

I'm sure that you will amend the Wiki when you find the answers that you seek. Thanks in advance, Androdion.

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Thing is, the Wiki has a very specific way on the wording. It's almost technical jargon when you read most of its entries, so by changing it to a more simplified/streamlined form of text would mean IMO a complete overhaul on the type of sentences that are present in it.

The Damage Lore entry is actually quite accurate and extensive in the information I presents, it's just that sometimes we need to field test some of the entries on the Wiki to understand some illogical programming decisions. Like Tactics Lore increasing the base weapon damage on a HE but not the damage on Magic Coup which is (partially) a weapon based CA. It's things like those that make me read the Wiki and double check with the game running, but that's really not an issue in my book. Oversimplifying the Wiki is probably a bad idea given all the work that was put into it already, and there are always blank toons for field testing. ;)

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I concur that a complete overhaul of the way the Wiki is worded is unnecessary. However, a clarification via a restatement of the technically written information in layman's terms at the end of paragraphs or key points would be helpful. This would only be warranted in certain areas which may be significantly confusing.

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Thank you, Androdion. A better understanding of the workings of the mechanics of the game will lead to the building of more effective player characters. Fewer questions requiring answers should then result in more time for us all to quest blissfully in Ancaria. After all, those nasty Kobolds and annoying Goblins aren't going to slay themselves; "I could still stand some more trophies."

:viking:

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13 hours ago, Androdion said:

Well, I've read and reread what's on the Wiki page for the skill and I think I've gotten as doubtful about the end results as you did.

I feel you!

13 hours ago, Androdion said:

now I've also got the itch to know it. :D

you're welcome! :)

13 hours ago, Androdion said:

So my advice would be to pick up the blank toons in this file and test each and every CA for Damage Lore interactions.

OMG! This is the most amazing help I've ever gotten from anyone!

Now I can test all my stuff properly!

I used to just not spend my skillpoints and modpoints up to the point where I can test what I want to test and then save my char before spending points, trying out all combinations before going back to gaming with the char but now I can do that seperated from my playing characters (and spend all their unspent points :yay:).

Thank you very much! :bow:

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On 3/1/2018 at 10:09 AM, Genitor said:

Can the DoTs from CAs cause secondary effects?

The answer is no.

Welcome to DarkMatters.  Happy reading on the Wiki.

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3 hours ago, Genitor said:

OMG! This is the most amazing help I've ever gotten from anyone!

Now I can test all my stuff properly!

I used to just not spend my skillpoints and modpoints up to the point where I can test what I want to test and then save my char before spending points, trying out all combinations before going back to gaming with the char but now I can do that seperated from my playing characters (and spend all their unspent points :yay:).

Thank you very much! :bow:

Glad I could help. ;)

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I would like to add that Damage Lore skill does not increase damage on magic or ice effects to my knowledge but it does increase the chance they happen.  Fire and Poison (edit I mean their DOTs secondary effects) deal damage and Damage Lore increases their amount of damage and also quite a large magnitude.  Since Magic and Ice (edit I mean their secondary effects) do not deal DOT damage but rather a status effect (with a duration).  So I guess that would be a SEOT (status effect over time).  I do not know whether Damage Lore skill effects the magnitude of Slow or Weaken but I am doubtful that it does.  Might be another thing to test with those blank characters.  Even so without a magnitude increase with Weaken that is still pretty awesome to have a very high chance of delivering the Weaken status effect.

Edited by claudius
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3 hours ago, claudius said:

I would like to add that Damage Lore skill does not increase damage on magic or ice effects to my knowledge but it does increase the chance they happen.  Fire and Poison (edit I mean their DOTs secondary effects) deal damage and Damage Lore increases their amount of damage and also quite a large magnitude.  Since Magic and Ice (edit I mean their secondary effects) do not deal DOT damage but rather a status effect (with a duration).  So I guess that would be a SEOT (status effect over time).  I do not know whether Damage Lore skill effects the magnitude of Slow or Weaken but I am doubtful that it does.  Might be another thing to test with those blank characters.  Even so without a magnitude increase with Weaken that is still pretty awesome to have a very high chance of delivering the Weaken status effect.

Claudius, always awesome seeing you here! Thanks for the information 

 

:)

 

gogo

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