Staff lore in the AddOn

[chattius 2,723]

Edit(15.4.2010)

EXAMPLES

To show the possibilities staff lore allows in the AddOn I will insert a few newer threads:

Massive Area of Effect Dryad with bargaining

Massive Area of Effect Inquisitor with bargaining

A seraphim will follow soon

 

The AddOn brought the possibility to use a staff for shooting if you have staff lore. However this was not feature-free implemented for all combat arts.

 

Magic coup of the high elf will only bash with the staff, independant if you have staff lore or not.

Staff lore will not shoot when dual wielding and only one staff but in the left hand. Edit

 

But classes with attack series or all around attacks are interesting, a staff seems to count as a melee weapon with the range of a bow.

 

The combat arts will first try to bash nearby enemies once the nearby are killed you may see experience lines popping up without seeing that you hit an enemy. The reason is that the combat art is hitting enemies in the shooting range of the staff without doing a projectile shooting animation.

 

I am not sure if this is a severe bug, since there seems to be a delay in the experience lines. This could be interpretated that there is an invisible projectile which needs time to hit an enemy. But in difference to projectile weapons the number of projectiles is not capped at 3 for a combat art!

 

So I was asking for feedback if this should be considered a bug and not be used in a gentleman agreement in party playing.

 

Stumpled above it when I was playing a low level seraphim where I wanted to recharge the pillars with reg per hit and staff shots and was using unmodified weapon Combat Art's.

 

So perhaps you could add which Combat Art's would be candidates to build a staff shooter and your experience with them. (given that it is considerd a feature and not a bug)

Remember: Each Combat Art will have to do a melee bash (kill?) first before it starts shooting on farer away enemies.

Edited April 15, 2010 by chattius

[Woody 24]

Very interesting Chattius.

I am not sure if this is a severe bug, since there seems to be a delay in the experience lines. This could be interpretated that there is an invisible projectile which needs time to hit an enemy. But in difference to projectile weapons the number of projectiles is not capped at 3 for a combat art!

A bit like blowpipes, invisible projectile ?

Edited March 10, 2010 by Woody

[Llama8 11]

But classes with attack series or all around attacks are interesting, a staff seems to count as a melee weapon with the range of a bow.

 

The combat arts will first try to bash nearby enemies once the nearby are killed you may see experience lines popping up without seeing that you hit an enemy. The reason is that the combat art is hitting enemies in the shooting range of the staff without doing a projectile shooting animation.

 

I've seen that fairly often with axes/swords on other characters, I think that the only range check is on the initial Combat Art cast, rather than before each hit. Also, if you poke about in the Spells.txt file you'll find an entry for the staff ranged attack (which I think is why the staff bolt won't work with Combat Arts, since it might be a Combat Art. Kinda).

 

So I'd class it as a bug, but not specific to staves (with Staff Lore).

[chattius 2,723]

I often saw my magic coup hitting from a great range when failing to run to an enemy behind a fence or stuff like that. I also saw that if the character had to run to its target and the target moved meanwhile that an animation is done at the end of moving the character and the target is hit on its new place which can be a bit afar.

 

But this is different, the staff hits targets not even on the screen.

[chattius 2,723]

I did a dryad and it empties whole screen with a single click

Now I really think it is a bug, because I don't see a delay between the experience lines popping up.

At level 18:

tactics, hunter focus, staff lore, shield lore, concentration, armour lore

 

sinister predator: eagle eye, marked shot, hunting focus

Darting Assault: edged, wounding, rotate

 

Darting Assault starts with a run to enemy and bashing it with staff, but then all which is in shooting range and angle of rotate is hit.

 

So the bit of testing I did at weekend (sport season opened again, what is Fahrsport in english ?) I think it is like:

 

A weapon Combat Art which is able to hit several enemies while having staff lore will use a staff to do a hit/kill in melee range on the first target, but then the rest of attacks is on stuff in shooting range: without any delay between the invisble shots, without any projectile animation, ....

 

If it is considered no bug, what would you do in a character designed for staff combat? Not tested if acute mind will work on the shots yet, I dislike recasting of spells, so I would opt for detheya and damage lore. The hits will be in a wide area , so DOT will have some time to do damage while the aggravated enemies run toward you.

 

I was choosing shield lore in the hope that acute mind will work and so there is no need to to twohand staves.

 

So if you have experience with staff lore on multitarget weapon Combat Art's, could you add your results?

[Llama8 11]

I did a dryad and it empties whole screen with a single click

So the bit of testing I did at weekend (sport season opened again, what is Fahrsport in english ?) I think it is like:

 

Sounds like Motor sport/F1.

[chattius 2,723]

No Motor sport/F1. Formula1 is boring with the new rules I heard. Everyone saving tires and noone riscs to speed up to advance in position.

 

Fahrsport is with horses and a carriage. Our kids grew up with horses. That is one of the reasons we try to find a fun to play horsebuild for sacred2. Fahrsport is a sport we can do with whole family (except the 2 year twins) actively. You have to solve a cross country circuit with many obstacles as fast as possible, have to show how well your horses are trained, good looks for horses and carriage, ...

At cross country the 'passengers' of the carriage are active, leaning out to move center of gravity and such. We start in 4 people, 4 wheeled, 2 horses (friesian). My father in law was a state champion in sidecarcross. And my wife used to be the monkey for almost 20 years. The monkey is the person in the sidecar who moves from left to right and for and back to keep the motorcycle in balance. When my father in law retired she moved to Fahrsport because it is more family friendly.

 

Seems the english word for Fahrsport is combined driving.

 

The Friesian horse

 

We consider Fahrsport and vaulting (acrobatics on horseback) as nice family sports. They teach care for animals, teamwork, knowing of mechanics, body control, ... . The challenge weekends (at state, not international level) are like family meetings. You know everyone and exchange tipps and ticks.

[chattius 2,723]

Dobri did a thread about Out of range attacks with other weapons.

 

But this is not the same. With staff lore and Darting Assault you can hit targets behind hills and walls. This happens only if you have a staff in your right hand and have staff lore.

It can be staff and shield, two handed staff, 2 staves, or a staff and another type of weapon - but you need staff lore and a staff in your right hand.

 

After some testing I think this is a exploitable bug now, not a feature. Inqui mutilation, seraphim pelting strikes, ... behave the same.

[chattius 2,723]

....

I've seen that fairly often with axes/swords on other characters, I think that the only range check is on the initial Combat Art cast, rather than before each hit. Also, if you poke about in the Spells.txt file you'll find an entry for the staff ranged attack (which I think is why the staff bolt won't work with Combat Arts, since it might be a Combat Art. Kinda).

 

So I'd class it as a bug, but not specific to staves (with Staff Lore).

 

There are similiar entries like this for arrow, energy shots and so on too. And the staff shot is listed as 1 second cooldown. I had the impression that the staff can shoot faster than 1 second, but if not I will flame my bad eyes.

[chattius 2,723]

EXAMPLES

To show the possibilities staff lore allows in the AddOn I will insert a few newer threads:

Massive Area of Effect Dryad with bargaining

Massive Area of Effect Inquisitor with bargaining

A seraphim will follow soon

There are threads now based on staff lore characters in the AddOn. So I added them into this thread to know what we are speaking about.

[chattius 2,723]

WIth 4 years distance I consider the staff inquisitor as more powerful than the dryad. Even the dryad has a full circle and the inquisitor only a half circle - the defense of the inquisitor is by far better.

If we want to play dirty then it should be done the right way: modify Reverse Polarity for exploit. Spend 10 minutes to collect 4 companions which can't die.

Together with the doppleganger all damage you get is turned to them if you have Reverse Polarity at CA-level 151. (4.9% +0.1%*151)*5 = 100% of your damage is received by your companions.

This is not the nice way in parties with other players but a way to quick level your smith or bargainer in single player games.

 

I unlocked smith with riding and mastered riding: the staff attack empties a big area and I hate loosing time to run to new enemies. I didn't collect all loot, just what was on my way. Here the 180degree circle is actually better than the 360degree of the dryad: more loot on your way to new targets and not behind you.

Another possibility is to use clustering maelstrom just for bundeling loot: with 2 nlovae staves and an ca-range sigil set the range is even 40% more: full screen at high levels. And there is close to no danger once most of your damage is received by your companions.

[Flix 5,217]

It's weird to read old threads about concepts that are well-established now, but were hotly debated and questioned back then before everyone understood what was going on. This staff lore exploit/bug is one example.

 

I tend to agree that a Dual Staff-Lore Inquisitor using Ruthless Mutilation might be the true mob destroyer, especially with all his buffs and debuffs. The Dryad might equal him with her full 360 degree attack arc and Acute Mind to boost intelligence, but then of course Inquisitor also has Clustering Maelstrom, another devastating mob CA.

 

The thing is, against bosses, these powers are really not all that spectacular. Boss-killing is a major obstacle to many an Inquisitor build, whereas the Dryad with a Black Curse-Tangled Vine-Edaphic Lances combo is the boss annihilator.

[chattius 2,723]

Bosses are no real problem:

CM-patch has x% life leech claws. Dual wield them, boost your attack speed to 170% and do normal attacks. Your doppleganger will have nice x% life leech too if you summon him when wielding both claws.

No one forces you to approach a boss with staves

At the scorpion or other summoning bosses I often prefer a staff + x% life leech claw to kill the summons while still doing damage to the boss.