Incendiary Shower - Choice of mods, which is better?

[lujate 578]

So what mods do think work best?

[SupidSeep 0]

My pyro has the AAB mods for IS - and uses the Silver Fear mod for Blazing Tempest. Currenly the Fear mod is the primary reason my level 90 pyro can hope to walk around Niobium with level 112-128 critters.

 

Simply put, my pyro simply don't have the firepower to kill them before they kill her AND they will kill her easily ( reflect/block from IS Buff is ~ 60% at this point and as mentioned it takes 3-4 hits from a level 112 boar to kill her) - so I have to find some other means to keep them away - and that involves CC.

 

As said, the chance that a high level HE will face opponents at the same level is slim, especially if the focus is set on pushing her through the difficulty level as fast as can be managed - she will likely face monsters significantly higher in level (in my example: up to 40% higher on Niobium) with correspondingly higher chance to hit the HE / higher damage / higher health. As mentioned, if you can show me a video of a level 160 HE shrugging off a level 200 Niobium Guardian's attacks, I'll consider the BBA mod path. Otherwise, I am sticking with mods that offer CC - because they increase my HE's survival chances.

 

That said, I want to propose for Boss Killing using IS, AAA (or even just AA-) might be better than AAB. Gold B mod works better on moving critters over slow oversized bosses.

 

- B mod brings down the meteors at a faster rate which works great against moving critters - if your aim is right, B mod means more meteors will hit the critter in the time it runs through the bombarded area, which leads to greater chance of stunning, which leads to the critter stuck in the bombarded area and getting wacked by the rest of the meteors.

 

- Conversely, hitting oversized bosses with the full IS is quite easy without Gold B mod. In my limited experience, B mod tends to HINDER attempts to stunlock a boss with repeated IS. The concentrated barrage from B mod is better for ensuring the first stun (and the effect is more pronounced on moving critters). However, once a boss is stunned, the focus should shift on keeping the bossed stunned and this is where B mod start to fail.

 

No matter how fast your CA cooldown is, it still takes time to actually cast IS - in effect a hard cap on how quickly IS can be repeatedly cast. From my limited experience, a single stun effect from IS last maybe 1-2 seconds. Without the Gold B mod, a fast enough casting IS (especially with the Silver A mod) will tend to have the meteors from successive casts overlap each other - a boss will suffer a steady bombardment of meteors without noticable breaks inbetween casts - and once stunned, chances are low that it will break out of stun long enough to affect the outcome.

 

With the Gold B mod, a boss will tend to experience quick bursts of meteors interspaced by short but significant gaps inbetween successive casts of IS. The gaps offer the boss a chance to lose the stun long enough to move or threaten the player. As I play my pyro HE through through level 50 to 70 with a ~ 1.5 sec cooldown IS, I noticed that when I got the Silver A mod for IS, keeping boss stunlocked becomes easier because more meteors means that successive IS casts start to overlap their hits. Conversely, getting the Gold B mod makes killing critters with IS much easier but the meteor rain on bosses start becoming spotty instead of a more even distribution and bosses occassionally break out of the stunlock for a split-second here and there.

[lujate 578]

I look at IS as a boss-killer. My Pyro HE is just level 54 and has AAA mods, and I am satisfied with how they work.

[SupidSeep 0]

Well, I do use IS for critter killing because BT is terrain dependent and there are places where BT's effective use is limited (narrow twisted tunnels/paths, waterlogged area in swamps).

 

IIRC, IS has the ability to target enemies without a direct line-of-sight (as long as you are in range) - leading to situations where I can't hit a target with AF or BT because they'll be blocked but I can with IS.

[Graeystone 3]

BT does seem to be wonky. In 2.43 there were times I would use it on what I thought was a flat terrain only to have two piddly flames shoot out in front of the HE. Don't know if it was a glitch or what. Still have yet to try HE in the community patch.

Is the wonky and questionable BT somewhat fixed in the Community Patch?

[lujate 578]

BT does seem to be wonky. In 2.43 there were times I would use it on what I thought was a flat terrain only to have two piddly flames shoot out in front of the HE. Don't know if it was a glitch or what. Still have yet to try HE in the community patch.

Is the wonky and questionable BT somewhat fixed in the Community Patch?

I have not played HE in either 2.43 or CM, but in vanilla Ice and Blood BT seemed to work OK. The terrain in the caves beneath Seraphim Island and the Swamp frequently causes issues, but that is all I have seen.

[Shattered Rift 2]

I've been getting back into the game playing Fire Elf, and the variance between the mods used by the different builds led me to this thread looking for an answer of which mods were the "best."

I realize that playstyles affect things, but what practical information do we gain from this discussion?

-Loco's videos show us that AAB is stronger at lower levels whereas BBA is stronger at higher levels. The majority of the game is played at lower levels, so there's a strong argument that the "average player" who isn't looking to push the late-game should go AAB.
-The Bronze decision is a matter of survivability. Skull Smash's stun takes some of the pressure off of defensive necessities to keep the High Elf alive.

Perhaps I'm missing something, but I'm at a loss to say that any other points have been made. For example, I'm confused as to why the test was between AAB and BBA. What advantage does the combination of Skull Smash -> Continuity -> Intensity offer compared to the advantage of Magma Rain -> Smoking Rock -> Devastation? This just compares the higher number of meteors per second (with stun) to the greatest damage per meteor.

It seems like there's a greater discussion to be had comparing the silver and gold mods respectfully and not merely in these combinations.

A few questions I'm left with: Does Continuity increase the number of meteors per shower by 33%? (That seems like a rough approximation.) And how does the damage formula for spells work? Does a higher number of hits (generally) amount to more total damage, or does punching through a higher damage per hit do so? (I know this isn't a linear comparison.) Likewise, what is the bonus damage from a critical, and what's the value of 3 more hits per second?

[wolfie2kX 528]

There's more than one way to skin the proverbial Kobold...

 

I personally am using BAB on my current pyro Elf and it works rather well.

 

My way of thinking goes a little like this: Defense is fine, but since you need to kill these baddies, might as well go straight to the point and just kill them. The faster they die, the less chance they have to do damage to and kill YOU.

 

If the initial number of meteors is 10, and Continuance increases it by 3, then yes, that's roughly 33%.

 

Btw, I don't know nutthin' about the math - I don't play games to do that sort of thing. I play to have fun and I don't really need to know WHY something works - just that it does.

[Aegis 256]

Unless I know the enemy is gonna stand at the very spot I wish to rain death on and will not run off or even wander, I would not bother using IS on mobs or a critter. Instead, I'll use Ancestral Fireball for those situations where Blazing Tempest acts up. I stick with IS mainly as a boss killer. Personally, BBA has worked very well. At the very least, I was also of the same thinking that the limited amount of stun still won't be enough to prevent those bosses from ripping a chunk of my health, so my best defence is to hit them harder till they die.

[chattius 2,526]

I can tell you one thing: +ca-range is contra-productive for the shower.

It covers a way to big area this way. The area the shower hits with a +70% ca-range increase is nearly a factor 3, but with the same amount of meteors...

So best to stay away from it. This new CM-patch set for the pyro has +ca-range.

 

My option for the meteors is normally stun, more, faster. If I want it for savety I mod it for savety:

Stun ,needed if you want savety

More = more chances to stun

faster = getting a stun quicker, so less risc

 

I normally go for high ca-levels rather than for damage socketing. A CA-level of 150 in 2 fire buffs and in IS gives a high chance to stun while the buffs give the x% damage. Mastered Combat discipline and 100% half regen times, the clock starts at 8 for regeneration, this allows the high levels late game. And a 150 IS has a way better chance to stun than a 30 IS with damage socketing, even later might do a bit more damage, if at all.

[chattius 2,526]

Our 14 year old played a Bärenhüter(in), ranger who looks for the bears. It is the german name for the star sign Bootes which brings a lot of meteroids.

It was a small exercise:

Only Combat Arts allowed to have more than one rune and to be modified: the two fire buffs and the meteor shower.

A single rune, but no modification: fireball and firewave

 

The small exercise was:

Play it to niob and you get a bellows for your camera so you can do photos of small insects.

 

 

Here results: it is playable, currently mid in platinum. It lacks area control but is devasting against bosses. So she works on the area control now. Up to mid gold the single point in firewave proved to be enough for small mobs.

She mastered her skills in this order: pyro focus and lore, armour lore, damage lore, ... Using a Lord Wayne Playerkiller sword with socketed poison. So recharging with reg per hit and have a additional poison effect. The fire part of the sword is boosted by 2 buffs and tactics which was chosen to unlock damage lore.

 

http://www.sacredwiki.org/index.php/Sacred_2:Lord_Wayne%27s_Player_Killer

[gogoblender 3,070]

Forgot about this topic!

The tests are gold!

Videos, and conclusions gotta make their way to wiki

 

 

gogo

[Hooyaah 2,823]

Arguably ending all debate, the answers are all spelled out here. I have personally follwed this build with remarkably impressive and devastating results. In the words of the Master himself:

 

 

Piromante

A [D.a.r.k] Creature of the High Elf race, she is an outcast of her coven. . She travels the Regions of Ancaria in quest of Fame and fortune as a mercenary for hire while leaving a wake of destruction and fire. No Man or Beast of creation can withstand the heat of her dark burning heart

A little Guardians action at level 140 on Niobium:

Planning

I had played several High Elves with great enjoyment. After a long and successful run to Niob level 115 with a Magic/Ice elf, I decided to give a Pyro a try. I wanted to build a char that could level fast and high, and could also be used on boss hunts. I built several homemade versions, and all had mistakes but I learned several things in the process:

Note: I played this Character with the Expert Touch enabled

1. The HE is a bit squishy against physical damage and spell damage.
2. She can really pack a huge punch when given the right tools and mods.
3. Leveling is much faster than my Ice/Elf


Skills

Level 2 Armor Lore

We will need to get this up to level until 75. The regen penalty from armor will be maintained by keeping this at level until 75. As well as the damage absorption and ability to wear higher level items. She is gonna need this armor to sustain herself against all forms of damage. I recommend socketing at least 1 Artamarks Star if you can find them. Master 1st

Level 3 Arrant Pyromancer Lore

This will be our main aspect. Damage at early levels is gonna rely solely on this skill. Get it to level and keep it there until level 75. Master second

Level 5 Concentration

Just 1 point for now. We may want to master this to enable the companion buff, but for now 1 point will do.

Level 8 Arrant Pyromancer Focus

We only need 21 points for right now. See here for reasoning Changing the way we look at focus skills, If not mastered they should only have 21 points. This will help with regens, and level without penalty. We can master towards the end.

Level 12 Delphic Arcania Focus Or Delphic Arcania Lore

We need 31 points to mod Grand Invigoration and Expulse Magic. No further points will be needed. I am choosing focus for the reason that +all skills from a Buff Suit will greatly raise the CA level of Grand Invigoration with 200 Runes read. This may be mastered towards the end. In my CM version I used Delphic Lore instead of Focus. It cast Grand Invigoration at a much lower level, however the Hitpoint regeneration bonus was significantly increased by the Lore at the cost of a little regen penalty

Level 18 Constitution

One key element of our defense will be large amounts of HP and high rate of regen. Get this to level and keep it there till level 75. Master 3rd

Level 25 Ancient Magic

There is a decent boost to Spell Damage here but the real magic starts at mastery when it reduces the enemies resistance to your spell damage. then look out! Master 4th.

Level 35 Shield Lore

Since we can't use 2 weapons we will occupy here left arm with a shield. Shield lore will help boost her Defense value and allow us to wear higher level shields. And there are some really nice Rare shield with huge block chance. At Mastery it give a chance to block close combat.

Level 50 Spell Resistance

The magic and LL spells of Ice and Blood can be devistating. So spell Resistance is really gonna help take the sting out of those nasty caster daemons and Daemonic Eyes.

Level 65 Combat Discipline

Gives a boost to damage, a 10% reduction in regens when CA is used in a Combo.

One quick but very important note. I used Expert Touch for this single aspect build.

Attributes

Put points into vitality for the first levels until you can start to add points into Constitution. Then all points into 50%Intelligence for Spell Intensisty and 50% int Willpower for base Spell Resistance.


Combat Arts

Incandescent Skin

This will be our primary Buff. it will help boost damage and also reflect close combat

Inferno - Increases the chance to set fire to opponent when they sustain fire damage
Revenge - this will give us some defense with reflect close combat
Fiery Ardor - more fire damage can't be a bad thing right?

Runes: 1 Rune only until late in game. Boost with a buff suit filled with runes. (Niob runes can be used by about level 45)

Ancestral Fireball

We will use this as a close combat art. Mob em up and Boom!

Explosion- Area of Effect in close quarters against mobs
Globe - more damage
Hot Pursuit - Fireballs will follow their targets. I know Fusilade here would add more damage. but with no other single target ranged attack. 2 fireballs only helps it you can hit the target. And at any distance other than face to face this CA can only hit stationary monsters. So I choose to give a little damage for high probability of a hit.

Runes: Read runes as needed but maintain 1.0s regen

Blazing Tempest

This is gonna be our mass damage Area of Effect. huge mobs will be burning all night long with Ancient magic mastered.

Scorch - +40% to damage
Conflagration - 41.7% increase in burn damage
Ambition - Increased Crits.

Runes: I like to keep this spam-able. 2 rings does more damage than 1. 3 rings is better than 2 etc. I like to keeps this between 1.0s and 1.5s

Incendiary Shower

Aaaah! Our boss killer! This is the best thing the Fire aspect has for huge damage against bosses. With Stun we can even stand our ground without getting hit. I chose these stats for good reason. continuity increases the number of metoers. and Intensity makes them rain down really fast. so with higher CA levels this thing is gonna pound bosses with so much damage per second it will be nothing but BIG GRINS!

Skull Smash - chance to stun
Continuity - More meteors
Intensity - they rain down faster

runes: Keep this at around 1.5s this will allow continuous rain of meteors for Bosses.


NOTE: After many tests I found that Skull Smach, continuity, Intensity was great a low level, but as I reached higher difficulty it was less powerful. I tryed Magma, Smoking Rock, Devastation and that proved to me very powerful indeed. but, my final result in guardian bashing speed was Magma, continuity, Devastation. the damage boost from Magma stacked with the already high fire damage, the devastation for great crits, and continuity for those 4-5 extra hits per proc.

Grand Invigoration

Our Second buff. Great for a HP regen boost and also to lower overall regens

Arrant Pyromancer Expertise - The regeneration time for the aspect Arract Pyromancer will decrease .
Life Energy - Additionally increases the hitpoint regeneration rate
Resilience - Reduces the impact and duration of incoming detrimental effects.

Runes: I had this at 200 runes by level 50. We will boost these mods with a buff suit of +all skills

Expulse Magic

Expulse is an utility skill here. It has good amount of block combat art. We will be using it strickly as a defensive measure

Strength - Increases banishing potential but maintain the same effective radius
Pentagram - Reduces the duration and impact of incoming weakening effects or Undead- also nice for dealing with Clearview, North Swamp, and Mist of Miasma.
Protection - Chance to block direct magical damage

Runes: Keep regen at around 1.0s -1.5s this allows you to lay down multiple rings for stacked bonuses

Armor/Gear
I used a Pyro Set for the Incandescent Skin Buff and a Ancestors for the Grand Invigoration Buff suit. until level 65 I fought in the Grand Invigoration Buff suit as the +allskills really helped with all the low level skills. At level 65 I started building a fighting suit from Various Set pieces with good Mods.


Socketables

Niob runes for Buff suits
+all Skills for Buff suits
Chance to evade
Damage -Fire or niob Smith Damage
anti-DoT
Spell Resistance



Play Style / Testing

I built this character in Closed net HC. So all testing was done with default settings.

From Low level I used Blazing tempest for mobs. Ancestral fireball for champs. and Incendiary shower for Bosses. For general leveling round up mobs as big as you can get and lay down repeated Blazing tempest and watch the XP number scroll.

Once I have Armor lore and Pyro Lore at level and had started pumping Constitution as my 3rd mastery(Stopped at 21 for pyro focus and 31 for Delphic Focus) I was confident to go boss hunting with Incendiary Shower. Only staying away from the Grundwald Dragon and Scorp Boss because of there CA reflect.

I Read runes until Shower was at about 1.5s and blazing at about 1.5s. So the Bonus mods were really starting to kick in and give me beautiful light show.

Reached level 75 and mastered Armor lore, constitution, and Pyro Lore. now I am putting all points into ancient magic. Level on Platinum at level 75 and she is doing an amazing job. damage is a little low against bosses in plat, but I took the ice lord, earth lord, mad ogre and Boar out with little trouble. Now its a race to master Ancient Magic, Shield Lore, spell resistance and go through a run in Cursed Forest and the guardians. I am confident she could go to silver and take guardians in record time. Gold may take a few minutes.


CM Patch Note: The CM Patch 0110 brought us the new sets made by Lazy Tomcat and the CM team. I absolutely love the Nine Hells set. It not only looks great, but the mods are great for this build as well.

[chattius 2,526]

A full ca-range build using meteors:

1.7 times the radius is around 3 times the area

 

So to hit small enemies in this build - meteor should be modified for more meteors. Enemies will be hit less, so damage lore is an option because instant kills are not likely.

 

Something positive: moving enemies are less likely to evade the now bigger damage zone unharmed. Damage lore willdo its work on small mobs.

 

The radius is bigger : ever fought colussus by standing 4 bridges above him and aiming at your bridge and seeing half of the meteors misssing the bridge and going all the way down to colossus? He can't strike back.

 

Level 120: 200 runes read in each of the buffs and the shower. Even without the regeneration buff the time between a shower is at 1.2s. 21 meteors each doing 15000 damage.

 

Combat discipline mastery: 3s normal is 2.4s in a combination

100% chance for half regen makes this 1.2s

[chattius 2,526]

My daughter did a little video how her level 139 max cA-Range meteor build can be used for growd control. Each Meteor is doing 20000 damage, 1.1s reg time, 21 meteors per cast. The character has damage lore at mastery so 1-2 hits are often enough for a normal target.

 

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/334-booteswmv/

 

Currently she tries to find a way to quickly change the radius: small for champions and bosses and large for groups.

 

I won't post the maths test I did with her: calculating hit chances at a bigger radius, different sizes of enemies, ... I had this maths she needs for school in mind when I did the challenge with the character.

[Flix 5,116]

Yeah I've felt some frustration with trying to use +CA Range Meteors against small mobs. I ended up saving it for bosses and big enemies, and just using Blazing Tempest for small groups and Ancestral Fireball for loners and medium size monsters.

 

Lots of respect for making Meteors work in any situation.

[gogoblender 3,070]

My daughter did a little video how her level 139 max cA-Range meteor build can be used for growd control. Each Meteor is doing 20000 damage, 1.1s reg time, 21 meteors per cast. The character has damage lore at mastery so 1-2 hits are often enough for a normal target.

 

http://darkmatters.org/forums/index.php?/files/file/334-booteswmv/

 

Currently she tries to find a way to quickly change the radius: small for champions and bosses and large for groups.

 

I won't post the maths test I did with her: calculating hit chances at a bigger radius, different sizes of enemies, ... I had this maths she needs for school in mind when I did the challenge with the character.

Just saw the video, lovely crowd control

 

 

gogo